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1.2 Patch notes... nerfs to NB and some lackluster skill changes
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Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I am happy, my NB is already strong and now after this patch he will be doing 10% more sneak attack damage and more damage when i knock down off balance targets which my Flurry Morph lets me do every few hits0 -
Talemire✭✭✭Being a Nightblade myself, the nerf to Siphoning Strikes was enough to make me unsubscribe. It's not because of the nerf to the single ability itself, but the principle of the matter - This proves the sheer incompetency and reveals a clear disagreement/division within the cubicles. I cheered this game on for the longest time, but I am convinced that the developers don't know what they're doing, nor do they know how to manage this game. Strike 1 for me was the launch, strike 2 was 1.1, now this is strike 3. I'm done being optimistic about the future of this game. Like I've said before, I wish them well, but making a move like this only tells me more huge mistakes like this will be made in the future. If I can't play my build how I want to play it, I'm not going to play their game. I'm not going to be forced into another class or spec that I don't enjoy because my foundational ability (Siphoning Strikes) was swiped from under my feet like a rug, especially if the class is hurting to begin with. As someone with 15 years of MMORPG gaming under my belt, it's looking to me like there's going to be a total nerf fest in the future, to the point where all the classes are going to feel underwhelming and no one is going to be happy or comfortable playing their class/spec. I say this shaking my head with grieving disappointment in what I thought would be great and amazing, but just get out now and save your money...Edited by Talemire on 4 June 2014 19:353 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭LOL no changes to weapon damage and stamina builds will still be lack luster, It really should be named Elder Staff's Online
Light Armor / Staff is just survival for the mediocor player.
DW medium armor builds are very strong if played correctly and you block and interupt at the right times, and also use heavy attacks to knock down off balance targets. You can go 1v1 with anyone, or do a hit and run and drop a single target very fast.1 -
Talmet✭✭✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Unless they use shadow cloak (which yes, costs a lot of magicka) you are correct. The magicka flood fix will help always, and on a lvl 50 character with no +magicka anywhere, it's 86.4 per siphoning ability on the bar...swallow soul & soul siphon are two pretty common NB abilities even for stamina NBs, which means +172.8 max magicka, which will increase all class abilities damage.
Magicka flood is a one-off boost if you have at least 1 siphoning skill on your bar. Having 2 makes no difference. At least that's the way I read it. I actually didn't know this one was broken. It definitely increases my magicka pool. Was it by not enough? Or was it too much? Is this, in fact, a nerf?
I'm assuming by the comments it's a positive fix but it can't be much.
You're correct. I was thinking it was like the other passives (i.e. fortitude/pressure points which are per ability slotted)
That's ok. Sandbox games are the future of MMOs and they are coming. So if you vote with your wallet, I won't hold it against you.
I am sorry but this is just a really bad thought process. What they are doing is horribly breaking their own game at the expense of losing large numbers of players. Not sure if you have ever heard the saying, Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That is basically what they are doing.
Yes, hundreds of thousands of trembling Night Blade players were anxiously waiting in anticipation of patch 1.2, trying to decided whether to stay or unsub.
"as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced..."
Mock me when you are playing on an even more empty server. When the only ones left are bots and the real players on the PTS trying to still fix the game in 6 months.
Sandbox games are the future of MMOs? Really? Then why is it that every one of the first MMOs (Meridian, UO, SWG, etc) were all sandbox games....is it because sandbox games are the future, or is it because they are the past.
SWG was NOT a sandbox. They had 'classes' that people fell into as a result of skill trees.
UO and Meridian were true sandboxes. Eve is a true sandbox. You can't claim sandbox and then put Archetypal nonsense on top of it.
What??? SWG had no classes...they also had no skill trees. Which makes me think you never played SWG, or at least you never played SWG pre-NGE...which completely changed how the game worked.
Pre-NGE, there were professions that you could level up in...you could unlearn, switch, mix & match between them however you wanted to. You were not locked into anything, you could play for a whole year as a rifleman and then one day with a few clicks become an entertainer and work to become a dancer for a month, to switch & then become an artisan.
Saying that SWG was not a sandbox because it had "classes" that people fell into, is like saying that EVE is not a sandbox because people fall into "classes" (or careers) due to skill trees....i.e. some people become refiners, others become pirates...0 -
Beretic✭✭✭Seriously though. I just unsubscribed.Ill be damned you nerph my class (which still is broken and does not function propperly) two patches in a row.
Do the devs even play this game? Have they stepped foot into pvp? I dare the dev that is in charge of NB to try and solo vet content his level. or play some pvp. Guarenteed he would ragequit because of how undepowered this dps 'powerhouse' is supposed to be.2 -
Singular✭✭✭✭Do people just read the title that says NB Nerf and scream RAGEQUITE RAWR!!!?
Almost everything in this list is great for people that actually play a NB and know how this game works. The only real nerf is Siphoing Strikes and we don't seem to have any info on what is changed. My guess is the additional magika/stam return on any attack will be reduced and they will keep the same for basic attacks, since they didn't mention changes to the returns on Leeching Strikes and that is the only difference.
I seriously don't think 90% of the NB sucks whiners even try to play a NB because you guys seem to have no idea how the class works.
I sort of just switched to a sorc. Now my NB feeds horses.
If you enjoy Sorc more great, I love my NB. Unless something drastic changes at higher levels .. but Im VR12 so. I honeslty don't think most people even try to make it work they just read that NB sucks and it gets stuck in their heads.
It's not that I don't like my NB. Once she became a vampire, her awesomeness got better. I just don't find how the NB works compelling. I got her to Vet 1 - it's not like I read the forums and though 'oh, no, now I have to change b/c other people are telling me stuff!'War, give me war, give me war.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Unless they use shadow cloak (which yes, costs a lot of magicka) you are correct. The magicka flood fix will help always, and on a lvl 50 character with no +magicka anywhere, it's 86.4 per siphoning ability on the bar...swallow soul & soul siphon are two pretty common NB abilities even for stamina NBs, which means +172.8 max magicka, which will increase all class abilities damage.
Magicka flood is a one-off boost if you have at least 1 siphoning skill on your bar. Having 2 makes no difference. At least that's the way I read it. I actually didn't know this one was broken. It definitely increases my magicka pool. Was it by not enough? Or was it too much? Is this, in fact, a nerf?
I'm assuming by the comments it's a positive fix but it can't be much.
You're correct. I was thinking it was like the other passives (i.e. fortitude/pressure points which are per ability slotted)
That's ok. Sandbox games are the future of MMOs and they are coming. So if you vote with your wallet, I won't hold it against you.
I am sorry but this is just a really bad thought process. What they are doing is horribly breaking their own game at the expense of losing large numbers of players. Not sure if you have ever heard the saying, Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That is basically what they are doing.
Yes, hundreds of thousands of trembling Night Blade players were anxiously waiting in anticipation of patch 1.2, trying to decided whether to stay or unsub.
"as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced..."
Mock me when you are playing on an even more empty server. When the only ones left are bots and the real players on the PTS trying to still fix the game in 6 months.
Sandbox games are the future of MMOs? Really? Then why is it that every one of the first MMOs (Meridian, UO, SWG, etc) were all sandbox games....is it because sandbox games are the future, or is it because they are the past.
Yeah, sandboxes are the future. Maybe not for you - if you like being dragged around from static quest to static quest, then themepark games are for you!
I suspect most people want to permanently impact the world they game in.War, give me war, give me war.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Let's be honest - if people seriously leave b/c of a class issue, it means they don't really like the game.
All I care about is having the most fun for my money. If a game stops delivering it I'm out. The point is - if too many of us do that the rest of you suffer. Every time you say 'good riddance' to a dissatisfied customer you're saying goodbye to their money and you're saying goodbye to the potential players he talks with.
That's why i'm so passionate about getting this game good for as many people as possible. I love the Elder Scrolls world and want to make ESO my MMO home for years to come.
But that means entertaining me. ESO is not a charity I have to support with my money and time.
It has to have a combat system that works flawlessly. It has to have balanced classes that are interesting to play in a variety of ways and it has to offer a variety of interesting game-play.
And it has to do all these things better than competitors.
Unfortunately ESO is not within rifle shot of these. It's not even clear it's aiming in the right direction.
Now maybe there are a game sustaining number of customers who don't mind the VR story making no sense, or mind unbalanced classes, or like single focus grinding gameplay. good luck to ESO if there are.
But I don't believe it for 1 second.
what I do believe is that other games like ArcheAge, Wildstar and EQ Whatever will offer more of what more people are happy to pay for.
I really want ESO to succeed, but it has to offer me fun gameplay, good stories and working game systems.
I'm not really sure why you addressed this to me. But, ok, sure. That works.
Uhm...how does your passion for this game translate into making it a better game?
If you're not working on it, I don't think you can actually improve it, except by submitting opinions here or volunteering on the play test server.War, give me war, give me war.0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Seriously though. I just unsubscribed.Ill be damned you nerph my class (which still is broken and does not function propperly) two patches in a row.
Do the devs even play this game? Have they stepped foot into pvp? I dare the dev that is in charge of NB to try and solo vet content his level. or play some pvp. Guarenteed he would ragequit because of how undepowered this dps 'powerhouse' is supposed to be.
I understand your anger and I see NBs getting spanked in Vet content a bit. I'm not sure why as I find it all fairly easy most of the time. If I do something stupid I can die quickly which is fair enough but for the most part it's easy enough. I'm a little more magicka balanced out there now. I find it works better. But I'm using bow and DW 5M/2H. My stam regen is softcapped. My health regen is softcapped. Health is around 2300 (I think..) and stam/mag run about equal at 1650 or so each at VR4. This from basic vendor enchantments and blue food (magicka+health in my case so I can choose to cap stamina with food instead if I want).
The skills on my bar constantly change as I level new stuff or just play around so I have no secrets there. I'm curious to know why your build (and other NBs I see) are doing so poorly.
I get owned in PVP don't get me wrong and I can see that I'm weaker in PVE than DKs etc but I can progress easily. I'm not saying it's not broken. Far from it. But I would like to know why so many of you die so much.
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Dealdrick✭✭✭
Ya, nerfing the most broken class in the game is "doing something" alright, the only thing they know how to do.1 -
Guys, calm down about it. People are overreacting about the nerf to Siphoning Strikes - it's not that big of a deal. (I was informed that) Currently on PTS it's a whopping 1%. Giving us a 30% stamina regen all the time is amazing, regardless if you're a magicka build or not. A good player is going to use stamina pretty regularly when dodging, blocking and sneaking. This is pretty cool, in my opinion.
It's not the end of the world. I'll continue to play my Nightblade as I always have. I'll continue to enjoy it like I always have. I don't feel underpowered or broken at all, and I can't wait to be performing as intended (bugs fixed). Exciting stuff
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think all anyone wants is an explanation. Maybe there are more NB buffs that will be added on to 1.2 before it goes live that warrant a nerf to SS somehow. Who knows? Zenimax knows, which is why they need to communicate.Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Guys, calm down about it. People are overreacting about the nerf to Siphoning Strikes - it's not that big of a deal. (I was informed that) Currently on PTS it's a whopping 1%. Giving us a 30% stamina regen all the time is amazing, regardless if you're a magicka build or not. A good player is going to use stamina pretty regularly when dodging, blocking and sneaking. This is pretty cool, in my opinion.
It's not the end of the world. I'll continue to play my Nightblade as I always have. I'll continue to enjoy it like I always have. I don't feel underpowered or broken at all, and I can't wait to be performing as intended (bugs fixed). Exciting stuff
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ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!0 -
I think that ZOS has been communicating pretty well, actually. They don't need to explain to us what is warranting changes to abilities because they have something that we don't. A bunch of data that they can review. I doubt they'll go over whatever it was that gave the idea to nerf this ability with us. It is weird, though, the nerf to SS. I agree, and initially I was pretty concerned as well. That was until I found out the changes were so little, I couldn't really understand why in the world they would risk bugging the skill out by making such a tiny little change to it. As you and I both know, one fix turns into a bug somewhere else in the Nightblade skillset at the moment
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TB1234✭✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.1 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I don't really care that much because I think the skill is mostly useless. I've sometimes used the morph with the proc chance on all weapon skills and gambled with that (not using base attacks) and that's a bit of fun sometimes. If you're lucky you can do really well and spam skills but if the odds don't favour you, you can run out of resources and your opponents are still alive because of the damage nerf you've taken.
I like that because it's risk/reward. It fits well into the NB class IMO.0 -
Evergreen✭✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Giving us a 30% stamina regen all the time is amazing, regardless if you're a magicka build or not. A good player is going to use stamina pretty regularly when dodging
Yeah we are going to need plenty of stamina to keep dodge rolling out of situations like this in Cyrodiil
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methjester✭✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Giving us a 30% stamina regen all the time is amazing, regardless if you're a magicka build or not. A good player is going to use stamina pretty regularly when dodging
Yeah we are going to need plenty of stamina to keep dodge rolling out of situations like this in Cyrodiil
Come on buddy, we can do like... half that in twice as much time in light armor with a boom staff. Even more if we sneak up on somebody... in a zerg... In the castle?0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.0 -
TB1234✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.1 -
Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.
Where are you getting that number..... According to a PTS player (not me), the damage reduction penalty is 25% on the PTS, it's currently 22% on live. That's 3% less damage overall when you have it toggled. Then, the mana returns on attacks is 3%, down from 4% where it's at on live.1 -
LOL no changes to weapon damage and stamina builds will still be lack luster, It really should be named Elder Staff's Online
Boy you said it there lol
Funny part is the Dev said his Main is a NB - We all know he already re-rolled a Sorc or Heavy class. He's not dumb enough to go back to his main NB. Safe to say he's playing only Alts at this point.
But don't worry they did say they're going to do small changes over time. That's good news but means in 2016 the NB will actually be the class it was meant to be.
Edited by ipkonfigcub18_ESO on 5 June 2014 05:380 -
TB1234✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.
Where are you getting that number..... According to a PTS player (not me), the damage reduction penalty is 25% on the PTS, it's currently 22% on live. That's 3% less damage overall when you have it toggled. Then, the mana returns on attacks is 3%, down from 4% where it's at on live.
Fractions... If i take one of your apples and you had four to begin with you now have 3 apples left. You lost 25% of your apples and now you have 3 out of the 4 apples or 75% of your total apples. 1% looks insignificant but it adds up quickly. The magnitude of the nerf is large when you look at the original skillEdited by TB1234 on 5 June 2014 05:381 -
Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.
Where are you getting that number..... According to a PTS player (not me), the damage reduction penalty is 25% on the PTS, it's currently 22% on live. That's 3% less damage overall when you have it toggled. Then, the mana returns on attacks is 3%, down from 4% where it's at on live.
Fractions... If i take one of your apples and you had four to begin with you now have 3 apples left. You lost 25% of your apples and now have 3 out of the 4 apples or 75% of your total apples
Haha! Okay, well when something is already only getting a 4% return (the big mana return comes from the chance proc not the attacks anyway), that's like having 4 apple pieces, not whole apples, and I don't give a crap if someone takes one of those from me. Great post though really. Made me giggle
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dragnier✭✭✭Ok, the nerf to Siphoning Attacks is just unwarranted... It is already so lackluster I use Equilibrium for magicka return instead as a dps... and yes I'm a Nightstick
I've used my NB to tank, which is fun and all... but honestly the -22% weapon damage from Siphoning Attacks is only viable as a tank or healer... though less so as healer because the weapon damage contributes to the size of the heals.
Even if you only toggle Siphoning Attacks on for magicka / stamina regain and then turn it back off, the lost dps is more than the resource return is worth. Using Siphoning Attacks, my dps sustain might hit OK range... Using Equilibrium instead runs my dps up at least 25% - 50% above what I get with Siphoning Attacks.
Basically, they are nerfing a skill I already don't use because it hurts more than it helps. If you really want people to use a skill, it has to actually do something worth using it... not hurt more than it helps.
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Talmet✭✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.
Where are you getting that number..... According to a PTS player (not me), the damage reduction penalty is 25% on the PTS, it's currently 22% on live. That's 3% less damage overall when you have it toggled. Then, the mana returns on attacks is 3%, down from 4% where it's at on live.
Fractions... If i take one of your apples and you had four to begin with you now have 3 apples left. You lost 25% of your apples and now you have 3 out of the 4 apples or 75% of your total apples. 1% looks insignificant but it adds up quickly. The magnitude of the nerf is large when you look at the original skill
umm...no.
Currently the penalty is 22%, which means you deal 78% of normal damage.
On the PTS the penalty is 255, which means you deal 75% of normal damage.
Lets use real numbers, as those might be easier for non-math people. Lets say you normally deal 100 DPS (yes, it's low...but it's easier to work with).
you normally deal 100 DPS
Currently with the penalty you'll deal 78 DPS
On the PTS you'll deal 75 DPS
Now, what do you compare the new penalty to? You compare it to what you have currently with the skill on...because that's the change. Post patch you aren't going to run around with the skill on always, are you? So why would you compare the PTS figure to your normal DPS.
So, it is a decrease of 3 DPS from the current 78 DPS when you have the skill turned on, which is a nerf of: 3/78 * 100 = 3.85%0 -
TB1234✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.
Where are you getting that number..... According to a PTS player (not me), the damage reduction penalty is 25% on the PTS, it's currently 22% on live. That's 3% less damage overall when you have it toggled. Then, the mana returns on attacks is 3%, down from 4% where it's at on live.
Fractions... If i take one of your apples and you had four to begin with you now have 3 apples left. You lost 25% of your apples and now you have 3 out of the 4 apples or 75% of your total apples. 1% looks insignificant but it adds up quickly. The magnitude of the nerf is large when you look at the original skill
umm...no.
Currently the penalty is 22%, which means you deal 78% of normal damage.
On the PTS the penalty is 255, which means you deal 75% of normal damage.
Lets use real numbers, as those might be easier for non-math people. Lets say you normally deal 100 DPS (yes, it's low...but it's easier to work with).
you normally deal 100 DPS
Currently with the penalty you'll deal 78 DPS
On the PTS you'll deal 75 DPS
Now, what do you compare the new penalty to? You compare it to what you have currently with the skill on...because that's the change. Post patch you aren't going to run around with the skill on always, are you? So why would you compare the PTS figure to your normal DPS.
So, it is a decrease of 3 DPS from the current 78 DPS when you have the skill turned on, which is a nerf of: 3/78 * 100 = 3.85%
my math is for the resources... Your math is for the damage. So a 25% reduction the magnitude of resource return from current un-nerf version. And a 3.85% overall damage reduction. However, I would estimate that damage to be reduced even more if you don't have as many resources coming back.Edited by TB1234 on 5 June 2014 06:170 -
bugulu✭✭✭I'm confused by comments in this thread....either you aren't thinking, or most of you don't know how the game works.
All class abilities use spell power & max magicka to determine their damage. Any ability/passive that increases spell power or max magicka will result in class abilities doing more damage per use.
Pretty much this, some people will always nitpick and claim it's a doomsday.
That attitude baffles me.
Now to actually look at the changes that they have made in 1.1.2, 1.1.3 and 1.2 (Seeing as people are claiming that they are ignoring Nightblades plight of buff).- Fixed an issue that was causing Nightblade abilities to become unresponsive in high-intensity combat situations. This issue is caused by a number of factors, and we will continue to monitor it after this patch.
Whilst more of a fix than a buff, this will help alot if you are having these issues. - Veil of Blades: This ability can now critical strike.
Huge buff, no debate about it - Catalyst: Increase the effectiveness of this ability to a higher percentage.
Unless you are lazy and not using potions, this is a good buff. - Master Assassin: This passive ability now increases spell power in addition to weapon power. Its stun duration increase has also been added to the tooltip.
This is a buff to every Nightblade and whilst it won't be a big change for stamina based nightblades, it's still nonetheless a buff for the Nightblade class. - Reaper’s Mark (Mark Target morph): This ability’s weapon and spell damage buff no longer stacks with itself – the duration of the damage buff will now just refresh upon each kill.
Call it a nerf or call it a bug fix. It was most likely not intended to stack. - Path of Darkness: Increased the damage for this ability, and it can now be seen by all other player characters. Also fixed an issue where it was ticking more times than intended on a target.
Refreshing Path: This ability will now heal your allies, and the healing done has been slightly increased.
Talk about making a big fuss about nothing. This ability was rarely seen in PvP and for those that still used it despite having more important PvP abilities, the damage was negligible at best. This is more of a buff that is PvE oriented since Path is a great ability for me as a Nightblade tank. If people can see it as well, even better, more healing done overall. - Refreshing Shadows: This passive ability is now always active, and no longer requires you to use another ability.
Great, a buff to more stamina recovery. - Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): The tooltip for this ability now shows the correct percentage of health recovery.
Tooltip fix, it's not a nerf. - Magicka Flood: This ability now correctly increases your maximum magicka.
Benefits all Nightblades. It's a buff and depending how much increased magicka, it's either a mediocre, good or great buff. - Siphoning Strikes: This ability now restores slightly less resources, and will no longer desync your resource bars upon use.
Now this one I'll agree was uncalled for. I am not too worried though, slight less resources sounds pretty negligible.
I for one like the changes they have made to Nightblades in the latest and upcoming patch.Edited by bugulu on 5 June 2014 06:451 - Fixed an issue that was causing Nightblade abilities to become unresponsive in high-intensity combat situations. This issue is caused by a number of factors, and we will continue to monitor it after this patch.
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Loco_Mofo✭✭✭✭✭ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »But don't worry they did say they're going to do small changes over time. That's good news but means in 2016 the NB will actually be the class it was meant to be.
Yeah I laughed at that too. My guess is NB will finally be properly balanced some time next year.0 -
Loco_Mofo✭✭✭✭✭Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »Trisstraeb14_ESO wrote: »ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »It's true that it's not a big nerf but it's still a nerf (25% nerf). And... why? They're just picking random skills and doing random stuff because they haven't got a clue what to do IMO. You could have asked any nutter on these forums what change they would make to a NB and I don't think anyone would have come up with "alter siphon strikes resource return by 1%".
I'm going to blurt out the first thing that comes into my head. Make Blur 17% and reduce the time by 1.5s. There you go. A change. Hire me ZOS!
Siphon will become yet another one of the many useless NB's skills after this. If I nerfed an killer blade or impale by 25% would you care? Or how about I reduce all your heals by 25%? 25% is a massive nerf to the skill.
It's not a 25% nerf. It's a 1% to returns and 3% to damage nerf. If they nerfed killer's blade or impale by 1% or 3%, or an heal by 1% or 3%, I wouldn't care.
ok 3/4= 75% of its original strength. A 25% nerf to the base strength a giant nerf.
Where are you getting that number..... According to a PTS player (not me), the damage reduction penalty is 25% on the PTS, it's currently 22% on live. That's 3% less damage overall when you have it toggled. Then, the mana returns on attacks is 3%, down from 4% where it's at on live.
Fractions... If i take one of your apples and you had four to begin with you now have 3 apples left. You lost 25% of your apples and now you have 3 out of the 4 apples or 75% of your total apples. 1% looks insignificant but it adds up quickly. The magnitude of the nerf is large when you look at the original skill
umm...no.
Currently the penalty is 22%, which means you deal 78% of normal damage.
On the PTS the penalty is 255, which means you deal 75% of normal damage.
Lets use real numbers, as those might be easier for non-math people. Lets say you normally deal 100 DPS (yes, it's low...but it's easier to work with).
you normally deal 100 DPS
Currently with the penalty you'll deal 78 DPS
On the PTS you'll deal 75 DPS
Now, what do you compare the new penalty to? You compare it to what you have currently with the skill on...because that's the change. Post patch you aren't going to run around with the skill on always, are you? So why would you compare the PTS figure to your normal DPS.
So, it is a decrease of 3 DPS from the current 78 DPS when you have the skill turned on, which is a nerf of: 3/78 * 100 = 3.85%
That's all well n good, but why did Zeni feel the need to change it in the first place? It's nowhere near OP in it's current state. I've asked for an explanation in the stickied NB thread, but the devs don't discuss anything with us plebs.0