I See Free to Play on the Horizon

Ruddertail · May 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Ruddertail wrote: »

How are free to play games in any way failures? Look at League of Legends...

MOBAs are completely different from MMOs. F2P in an MMO is an unofficial admission of failure. Look at LotR and SWtoR. While those still playing would argue that they are successful and happy with their gaming experience. The game makers and backers are not.

Turbine - the company that runs DDO and LotrO, for two examples - seems be pretty happy and pumps out new content for both. I dunno, both of them are very much alive and definitely bring in profit.

KhajitFurTrader · May 2014

Ruddertail wrote: »

Turbine - the company that runs DDO and LotrO, for two examples - seems be pretty happy and pumps out new content for both. I dunno, both of them are very much alive and definitely bring in profit.

Yeah, and the repeated news of massive layoffs are a surefire sign of this, aren't they?

Sorry, I do not intent to be cynical about good people losing their jobs. It's just that I quite disagree with the way things have been going on in LOTRO after F2P, and especially after ROI. And apparently, so have a lot of other players.

pborerb16_ESO · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play.

Just a thought... When was the last time you thought "Oh, that <something that happened in the game> is great, I'm going to do a forum post about it?" and then actually posted here to praise something? - Or just "Oh, I find the game quite good and have no major complaints, I'm going to write about it"? - It's just so that in any game forum, people who aren't satisfied with something (an element or the game as a whole) will be in the majority, as the urge to post if something doesn't work or otherwise isn't satisfactory simply is much greater.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play. I seriously hope like hell I'm flat out wrong cuz free to play opens the flood gates on those seriously annoying gold spammers!!! And I'm a serious Elder Scrolls fan and would hate to see ESO fail.

Um, f2p requires a reason to buy items, this game lacks that, if it becomes uneconomical, then they will just pull the plug.

Lilth · May 2014

I'm not a huge fan of FTP however, that seems to be the norm for MMO's these days. I blame a lot of the new generation gamers because they are the ones who typically want everything right now and they refuse to wait. Since this game doesn't have ALL the content some people want, right now, they won't stay and be patient for it.
I do think some better endgame content would be a big plus and some better pvp options etc... I am willing to wait because it takes time to add content. I don't expect it all to be added right now.

If it goes FTP I won't say adios to the game as long as they add the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guilds

and some of the other classic Elder Scrolls content of course.
It's a great game on many levels and given time it will get better as more content is added. The insta gratification generation needs to calm down and allow for that

That is all.

/Cheers!

daneyulebub17_ESO · May 2014

FTP is cancer. The intrusive store, the creeping pay to win, the constant focus on tempting people to buy crap instead of providing content and---of course---the whatever you do, at all costs, don't make the game too hard or the rubes might quit mentality that the game maker ALWAYS ends up adopting.

The ESO game makers have in my opinion drawn a bit of a line in the sand about F2P. I think they'd go down before they adopted that. And good on them.

I know I'm unsubbing the -second- I hear it's coming.

SDZald · May 2014

How anyone can seriously judge the success or failure of any game based on the game forums is beyond me. Think of the two most successful MMO's, EQ and WoW and if you spent ANY time on their forums you would think that not only were those games total trash but they were the DEVIL.

So feel away and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Oh can I have your stuff?

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

Such an informative and original thread.

KhajitFurTrader · May 2014

SDZald wrote: »

Think of the two most successful MMO's, EQ and WoW and if you spent ANY time on their forums you would think that not only were those games total trash but they were the DEVIL.

I might be giving wrong credit here, but I think it was Greg Street aka Ghostcrawler who first came out in front of the player base and said that even the loudest of criticisms was a good thing, because it speaks of a strong passion for the game (psychologists already knew that, of course). And then he followed up and started asking people who hollered that they didn't like x, why they wouldn't like it, and if they could think of a way for x to change, so they could like it again. And then he started explaining decisions...

Needless to say, he was villainified for doing this, mostly by people who expect to be confirmed in their negativity, and not being challenged about it.

SilverWF · May 2014

Too many bugs out there.
Ppl will continue unsubbing if ZO will not change the way they are applying patches and fixing errors.

So there will be 2 ways:
SWTOR-way - bugged game at start, change to F2P, very good game now
Warhammer-way - bugged game at the all stages, stuck in P2P, death of the game

liquid_wolf · May 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

So there will be 2 ways:
SWTOR-way - bugged game at start, change to F2P, very good game now
Warhammer-way - bugged game at the all stages, stuck in P2P, death of the game

SWtOR spent six months fixing bugs, and putting in content that was supposed to be in at release. They had multiple content updates until they got the hang of the process.

Then they went Free to Play even though they had 1.2 Million Active Subscribers.

Warhammer was missing 2/3 of their promised content at release. There was no way they were going to retain their subscribers and get that out.

steveb16_ESO46 · May 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

If you think free to play means a game is a failure, then you don't understand the free to play business model.

Sorry, it means it's a failure. They failed to meet the expectations set in their projections so they had to change business models.

Doesn't mean F2P is a failure. Just means the game is.

It certainly changes the nature of the game experience. Look at what happened to LOTRO. Went from a great game to a good game with a store attached to a store with a mediocre game attached.

I also want to be subbing this game for years but it has really got to get its act together on so many fronts.

It really needs to build on its strengths and broaden gameplay. Instead once the excellent faction story ends all that's left is grinding of one sort or another. I'd be more than happy to continue the faction story in other areas. But as new stories with new enemies, not rerunning a thinly disguised version of what you've just done, but this time for no rewards and against inexplicably super-powered enemies.

I'm enjoying the main story but there's a whole list of 'despites' and I started off as a huge fan.

Seems to me there's a lack of modern vision in the design (leaving aside the implementation issues). It is too narrow and old school gameplay. I was expecting more.

I was expecting to see innovation - and no - a phase technology that does everything in its power to stop you grouping how and when you want is actually a backward step.

Now while in no way does the story or to some extent the combat (assuming for the moment Zen actually fix the big problems) match ESO they need to look at something like ArcheAge to see maybe what sandbox elements could add variety to ESO.

I'm really hoping they pull something off because there's so much to like in the game and so much that you think - if only they didn't do things this way - it' be so much better.

SilverWF · May 2014

This is changes nothing: SWTOR so bugged at start now one of the TOP MMOs in the World.

TESO now have too many bugs and new patches brings even more, nearly useless support and very poor feedback from Zenimax about their own bugs.
I see the Mythic style here now...

Tarwin · May 2014

Games I left when they went F2P of sorts (was subbing when they announced change)

Age of Conan
EQ2
Secret world
Vanguard (I cried for days)
Lotro (plus hacked account with no support helped)

Games I tried out of the box F2P and lasted umm .. 1 week

NWN

Will Try Archage, but not holding my breath

With all it's "lumps n bumps" ESO is still the perfect fit (and yeah I'm screaming at the Vet+ "solo" content too right now too)

GreySix · May 2014

liquid_wolf wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

So there will be 2 ways:
SWTOR-way - bugged game at start, change to F2P, very good game now
Warhammer-way - bugged game at the all stages, stuck in P2P, death of the game

SWtOR spent six months fixing bugs, and putting in content that was supposed to be in at release. They had multiple content updates until they got the hang of the process.

Then they went Free to Play even though they had 1.2 Million Active Subscribers.

Still recall the vitriol and hatred pouring forth on the SWTOR forums shortly after release, and leading up to F2P. It might be worth noting that that particular MMO still does have a subscriber base, and F2P is somewhat hampered for those who choose that route.

felixgamingx1 · May 2014

Just turn it into another DDO I played and I didn't complain I even bought a few items

liquid_wolf · May 2014

GreySix wrote: »

Still recall the vitriol and hatred pouring forth on the SWTOR forums shortly after release, and leading up to F2P. It might be worth noting that that particular MMO still does have a subscriber base, and F2P is somewhat hampered for those who choose that route.

Yeah. The shear amount of hatred for SWtOR... the shear amount of whining and complaining was horrendous. I might just be getting older, but it is almost ludicrous how it seems to increase with every major MMORPG release.

You see the same thing here... people crying that the sky is falling and everything is doomed... but honestly ESO could still have more Subs than SWtOR at this point and people would still say it is failing.

The F2P Model SWtOR went with was pretty much a "Pay to Access the Full Game" mode. Sure you could play for free, but you were only seeing about half of what the game had... and progressing at half the speed.

samcharles77_ESO · May 2014

Here's my take on F2P; MMOs can use it to revitalize a game that isn't doing well. Personally I think most MMOs will do it at some point to bring in new customers and make more money. Think about it; a game launches and sells however many copies of the game. Some time after launch sales drop off or plateau, the game company thinks hmmm..how can we bring our sales back up...F2P.
Does it mean a game is doing poorly? It could but it doesn't necessarily mean that. No MMO is going to maintain the level of revenue they have at launch forever.

Personally I like how LOTRO did it. You can play for free via F2P or you can have a monthly based sub and have access to just about everything. Stores can bring items players may not have had access too. Having a way to earn currency to buy things from the store is something I like as well. It means you don't have to spend money if you are willing to spend time earning the currency.

Just my two gold pieces on the subject....

fyrefenix · May 2014

yeah if it goes f2p thats cool with me, then i can re roll other classes when they mess them up from nerf's and their screw ups are not costing me

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2014

FrauPerchta wrote: »

If ESO goes F2P it will be to take advantage of the larger profits. Several folks have studied F2PvP2P profits and found that F2P games make on average 2-3 times the profits of a P2P game.

Unfortunately once they go down that rabbit hole. Theres no telling where itll end up. A handful of F2P MMOs have gotten it right and maintain a healthy population and flow of content. While others are flooded with P2W mechanics and items where the content is a trickle or none at all.

Anastasia · May 2014

samcharles77_ESO wrote: »

Here's my take ... Stores can bring items players may not have had access to...Just my two gold pieces on the subject....

Or putting it more clearly: "Cash stores can bring items players who do not want to earn may not have access to other than spending -i-r-l currency to buy said items." ;o/

Noctus · June 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

Blade_07 wrote: »

In other words: MMORPGs are becoming more like a form of social media. They are no longer about the RPG elements that once defined the genre. So ironically and in many ways, the strengths of Elder Scrolls that many RPG veterans will appreciate could wind up being its weakness.

true my friend i see people telling that they cant explore the world becouse when they run into mobs which are 1 or 2 lvl higher than them they immadiately die.

but i found myself beating up group bosses solo in riften at lvl 35 .... its very easy to beat higher lvl enemys if u have tactics and i see that on other people complaining about game is too easy lol

Oberstein · December 2018

your predict is failed.