I See Free to Play on the Horizon

GreySix · May 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Are you going to accuse the forum moderators of ad hominem for calling the post what it was?

No. I'm accusing you of employing logical fallacies when you do so.

Gotcha.

So when I call someone's post trolling, it's ad hominem.

Incorrect.

When you commit an Ad Hominem attack, then its an Ad Hominem.

Asasinka · May 2014

It makes perfect sense argue about nothing, because that's what most hassles are about

mutharex · May 2014

What? The thread is so silly that now it's switched to arguing about logical fallacies?

p.hurst1b16_ESO · May 2014

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

If you think free to play means a game is a failure, then you don't understand the free to play business model.

If you think that F2P does not equal game fail then you do not understand the free to play business model.

All F2P games boil down to the same things. Paywalls. Random Boxes. Pay to Win PvP. Even TERA which tries its hardest to kill the fun for the pay to wins is subject to the pay to winners propping them up with near infinite spending capacity. The rest do not even try.

What most advocates of F2P do not actually realise is that if you become one of the high rollers, the publisher will start sweetening the pot in ways that most players and especially the freeloaders do not even know is happening. I tell you this for a fact cos I have been one of the high spenders in more than one.

GreySix · May 2014

mutharex wrote: »

What? The thread is so silly that now it's switched to arguing about logical fallacies?

Yeah, it has derailed a bit. But if folks would just fore-go personal attacks and argue points brought forth instead, we'd find these discussions much more constructive.

temjiu · May 2014

In spite of the fact that I cancelled my subs until I see what they have planned, in spite of my frustrations over the horrible class balance and the limiting and punitive approach to playing in the game...

I hope they can fix it and keep it subbed. I much prefer a sub game over f2p. but i have seen far too many companies needing f2p to survive. And many of those games have a far better balance then this one atm. so we'll see. but my hopes are to keep the sub base.

InspectorGanja · May 2014

Buy the game in order to play makes much more people happy anyway then subscribing to a broken game

mutharex · May 2014

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

If you think free to play means a game is a failure, then you don't understand the free to play business model.

If you think that F2P does not equal game fail then you do not understand the free to play business model.

All F2P games boil down to the same things. Paywalls. Random Boxes. Pay to Win PvP. Even TERA which tries its hardest to kill the fun for the pay to wins is subject to the pay to winners propping them up with near infinite spending capacity. The rest do not even try.

What most advocates of F2P do not actually realise is that if you become one of the high rollers, the publisher will start sweetening the pot in ways that most players and especially the freeloaders do not even know is happening. I tell you this for a fact cos I have been one of the high spenders in more than one.

There is a difference between F2P (like NWO for example) and Fremium (like TSW or LOTRO etc)

Noobie · May 2014

Not sure if this game goes F2P or not, but i do think the company is moving in the wrong direction of making a game.

For those who recall i think it was Warhammer (not sure) someone did a QA with some type of gaming magazines and stated 10 things to make a successful MMO.
some of the thingsi remember on it was in NA or Europe
- DO NOT DO asian style grind fest for levels (which ESO does for vet levels)
- Patch downloads and Maintanence time should not be more then a couple of hours.
- DO NOT DO major changes to a class, do small changes nothing drastic (like globaal cooldown on a skill)

These might not be accurate but i do remember reading an article about things gamers hate. Anyhow back on topic that article will most likely be the reason this game goes F2P if it does. I really liked the game but right now im just unmotivated to even log in.

InspectorGanja · May 2014

I see the same system as guild wars coming.

liquid_wolf · May 2014

There is no reason for them to go F2P at this moment.

With the systems still so unstable, and the patches causing the problems we are seeing, F2P wouldn't gain them anything.

Once the systems are stable, and content patches get pushed without so much chaos ensuing afterwards, then you'll see them entertain the F2P model.

Took SWtOR about 6 months to go that route? They still had well over 1.2 Million subscribers when they chose to go Free to Play.

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

For ESO, F2P would instantly mean P2W. Which would instantly kill the game for true ES fans, and thus, most of the fanbase. So ZOS will no longer make money.

So, in one word @OP: No.

SDZald · May 2014

I see a winning lotto ticket on my horizon. I mean I can make WAG as well as anyone, If it never happens don't expect me to be on here saying how wrong I was any more then the OP will be

By the way I have played ALL the MMO's and if you judged their success based on their forums then NO MMO has ever been successful.

AreoHotah · May 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_doctor

mutharex · May 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y3_kH9nYcA

mutharex · May 2014

liquid_wolf wrote: »

There is no reason for them to go F2P at this moment.

With the systems still so unstable, and the patches causing the problems we are seeing, F2P wouldn't gain them anything.

Once the systems are stable, and content patches get pushed without so much chaos ensuing afterwards, then you'll see them entertain the F2P model.

Took SWtOR about 6 months to go that route? They still had well over 1.2 Million subscribers when they chose to go Free to Play.

F2P conversions aren't about 'failing' as much as the shareholders not being happy of the revenue. 500K is a great number for any MMO but investors still want to squeeze out more. There are exceptions, like LOTRO where a good chunk of the player base was 'Lifers' and so the game had a lot less revenue than its player base should have guaranteed

roflcopter · May 2014

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Right now I am buying in for a 6 month sub on the basis that it took several months for them to iron out bugs in previous TES games and as of now the core stuff (most quests, PvP, crafting etc) is working reasonably well. No backwards flying dragons and unlike, say, Daggerfall we are able to finish the main quest.

I am playing the game in most of my free time and enjoying it when I don't let myself get distracted by admittedly annoying things like bots and missing achievements.

So I am throwing money down in the hopes that it will not become free to play/pay to win because at that point I'd have to quit.

If you're going off of what Bethesda did with Elder Scrolls Single Player Games. You're in for a shock. Zenimax is NOT Bethesda and ESO does not instantly equate to any TES. It may be set in the same universe. But that has nothing to do with how Zenimax handles things versus how Bethesda does.

MMOs are persistent and if its mismanaged its problems will not be solved. Or at least solved in the time it needs to be solved. Currently Zenimax is showing us they are unable to manage the post-launch game in a way that will be profitable for them and enjoyable for us. The lack luster responses to issues requiring immediate fixes, the lazy attempt to disrupt and eliminate gold spammers and bots, the fix one thing break two more bug fixes. Its all pilling up.

I've played enough MMOs to know that there's a small window for an MMO to get its **** together before it does possibly irrevocable damage to its population. When it comes to smaller companies they're forced to take the F2P route to save face. And the game is forever changed from something worth while to a theme park with little to no sustenance to its content. Larger companies are able to maintain the subs because of other projects but the low population means content will be a trickle or none at all.

Zenimax is closing in on the end of the forgiveable window. The time when people can shrug things off because its launch issues. But 3-6 months in. People wont be so forgiving. And nor should they.

They are a part of the same blanket set of companies.

http://www.zenimax.com/studios

I am sure they all talk to each other and hold up to the same set of standards. Which is why I have faith in this game. No way Zenimax (who owns Bethesda) would ever let the Elder Scrolls Name get tarnished.

p.s. and I won't give you the answer, if you have played any of the TES games, you will know exactly what time frame this is set in

and how it integrates with the lore. Just sayin.

Azzuria · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play. I seriously hope like hell I'm flat out wrong cuz free to play opens the flood gates on those seriously annoying gold spammers!!! And I'm a serious Elder Scrolls fan and would hate to see ESO fail.

Godwin's Corrollary. You lose.

Jeremy · May 2014

Orizuru wrote: »

Blade_07 wrote: »

I'm proud to say that FFXI is still a pay to play game after over12 years old! And its 99% gold spammer free!!! I see my self going back to it pretty soon. Not gunna leave ESO but I'm just gunna open my accounts back up so I can play a game with a HUGE amount of depth and challenge! You really gotta know your *** in that game or you will be lost. You must really know how to play your class well and be geared correctly to be any good in that game. Not a game for WoW babies!

I was one of the old-school XI players on the Leviathan server. It was such a great game, but today, it's fairly lack luster when compared to how I remember it being.

The game got the complete WoWification treatment in the last couple of expansions. It still has some good points, but it's a largely solo game now while leveling, and if you want to do any of the really epic boss fights or burning circles, it's almost impossible to find a group that will stick it out until the end.

Agreed. That game doesn't even resemble the game it once was.

GreySix · May 2014

Azzuria wrote: »

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play. I seriously hope like hell I'm flat out wrong cuz free to play opens the flood gates on those seriously annoying gold spammers!!! And I'm a serious Elder Scrolls fan and would hate to see ESO fail.

Godwin's Corrollary. You lose.

Didn't see any references to [snip] or [snip], so can you elaborate?

Edit: Why is a historical name banned?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

wrlifeboil · May 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

Blade_07 wrote: »

...

In other words: MMORPGs are becoming more like a form of social media. They are no longer about the RPG elements that once defined the genre. So ironically and in many ways, the strengths of Elder Scrolls that many RPG veterans will appreciate could wind up being its weakness.

Wise man quote: mmos are the equivalent of subpar single/multiplayer coop games made palatable by social interaction.

The graphics in mmos will be worse than single player games. The combat systems, animations, responsiveness will be worse than in single player games (although Watch Dogs on the PC might be an exception to that rule).

The hook that eso has is TES. But my guess is even TES fans will put up with mmo shenanigans for only so long. Maybe that was ZOS's intent all along.

Anyway, mmos seem to be more like dinosaurs nowadays. Every new generation of gamers seem to be more and more ADD. They are gravitating to fps on consoles, MOBAs on the pc and, worse, mind numbingly addictive apps on tablets/mobile devices. Take your ritalin already.

daneyulebub17_ESO · May 2014

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

moXrox · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play. I seriously hope like hell I'm flat out wrong cuz free to play opens the flood gates on those seriously annoying gold spammers!!! And I'm a serious Elder Scrolls fan and would hate to see ESO fail.

What about fixing the game instead.

F2P would lead to a lot of people quitting the game.

KhajitFurTrader · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play.

This tells me you're trolling. You claim to have a "bad feeling" that cannot be proven wrong, since you're the one feeling it. Any "discussion" about a feeling of yours is moot, because from your POV it's always true by default.

Blade_07 wrote: »

I seriously hope like hell I'm flat out wrong cuz free to play opens the flood gates on those seriously annoying gold spammers!!!

I cannot quite follow this "logical" deduction of yours, since it isn't one. It lacks any explanation why you arrived at your conclusion. It's another claimed feeling. See my point above.

Blade_07 wrote: »

And I'm a serious Elder Scrolls fan and would hate to see ESO fail.

This is a flat out contradiction with the "prediction" you gave in your thread's title and only made to give yourself credibility. You take up the guise as a "concerned customer".

If I would be a cynic (or a realist, take your pick), I'd say that you're a corporate shill being paid to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) on a game's forum in the advent of an upcoming launch of some competitor's product.

But being the compassionate fellow gamer that I am, I only say: your feelings are misguided. Chill.

Kyotee0071 · May 2014

People hacking the client for speed hacks, invis hacks, levitating and such = doom. And Zos does not seem to be able to stop it. Throw in animation canceling based pvp, limited skills per class, maintenance galore, unbalanced classes, and Zomg Bots everywhere - yep - Free to play and possibly "a ghost town" of a world seems to be the way this game is headed.

dcam86b14_ESO · May 2014

lol gotta love these posts. sorry dude but not everyone playing the game is a whiny kid and they are actually enjoying the game.

Kiash · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

I just keep seeing way to many pissed off people on here and get that bad feeling that Zenimax will be forced to make it free to play. I seriously hope like hell I'm flat out wrong cuz free to play opens the flood gates on those seriously annoying gold spammers!!! And I'm a serious Elder Scrolls fan and would hate to see ESO fail.

If the game goes F2P and opens the doors to the type of player that enjoys that kind of game, I will be gone personally unless huge bonuses are given to players who paid for the game. I'm talking something noteworthy here. Tired of games releasing as P2P then moving to F2P to appease the lowest common denominator type player with no incentives to those of us who funded and enjoy the game as P2P.

Ruddertail · May 2014

How are free to play games in any way failures? Look at League of Legends...

Mablung · May 2014

Ruddertail wrote: »

How are free to play games in any way failures? Look at League of Legends...

MOBAs are completely different from MMOs. F2P in an MMO is an unofficial admission of failure. Look at LotR and SWtoR. While those still playing would argue that they are successful and happy with their gaming experience. The game makers and backers are not.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO · May 2014

Blade_07 wrote: »

True, NCSoft(Aion) makes good money with free to play. But it opens the flood gates on gold spamming!

Loved the game, till it went f2p actually