OMG Bolt ESCAPE!!!!

Xsorus

Every time people say "Just tab target the Sorc and charge em" I can't help but laugh.

Tab Target in this game is not like other games, You can do it..However what it does is shows you the "Hitbox" around the target, to Charge someone you have to put your targeting reticle within that Hit box...If you don't do that before he teleports, You will not be able to charge.

Cody

Kirsika wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

the solution is simple:
put a cooldown
increase cost
make it NOT an instant cast

I get it, you want me to just stand there and be your punching bag. So how bout instead of bolting, I just go afk and make a sammich every time? Deal?

no
that is simply so one guy cant go in and spam the skill every time he is about to die. I don't mind the ability, but I do mind when someone spams the crap out of it. besides, you don't need BE to escape, do what every one else does RUN

Teargrants

NookyZooky wrote: »

you don't need BE to escape, do what every one else does RUN

Not sure why, but I have trouble taking your post seriously...

charles_crowe

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

Halrloprillalar

JosephChip wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

How does it not work?? Why isn't he tabbed as soon as you decide you want to kill him??? I am 100% sure invasion goes just as far as BE, so does crit charge and that annoying NB jump skill.

Is this a PEBKAC?

A lot of reasons. Even with an equal range for invasion and bolt escape, the sorcerer needs to be always exactly touching you before teleporting, otherwise you are already out of range.

Stopped reading there. You're wrong. Invasion is > range than BE. So is crit charge. Not 100% about the other ones.

You simply let him cast it twice before you reacted. React faster. Use cc preemptively.

Once again: this thread is not about sorcs beating you b/c of BE, but QQ about 'omg my AP he ran away such unfair'

Meanwhile, DKs are pulling people off keeps, perma rooting and banner stacking, and reflecting everything you throw at them. No problems there, amirite?

Halrloprillalar

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

Then give all the gap closers a channeling time.

charles_crowe

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

Then give all the gap closers a channeling time.

i can live with this. invasion/critical charge/stampede/shield charge are ludicrous. (i know i'd be using venom shot to counter any channeled abilities anyway.)

vote yes on channeling proposal 2014

Takanami

I remember when vampires once had an escape skill
Now people can run faster than them when they in elusive mist

Asava

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

You obviously never used BE so let me inform you. When you hit BE it takes around .5-1 second for it to fire and move your position already. Also, every single gap closer/pull ability has a longer range than BE.

charles_crowe

Asava wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

You obviously never used BE so let me inform you. When you hit BE it takes around .5-1 second for it to fire and move your position already. Also, every single gap closer/pull ability has a longer range than BE.

no, i haven't.

i HAVE used gap closers on bolt escaping sorcerers only to find they're halfway across the map when i've reached the location they were at when i used the skill.

your perceived channeling time is due to latency, and BE is in fact an instant. the server has already placed you at your new location before it sends any information about you using BE to other clients.

http://esohead.com/skills/23234-bolt-escape

i don't mind BE as a tactic, escape or otherwise. it just needs balancing. as-is, you need ESP or a full 24 person group to even catch a half-way decent sorc.

Cody

Kirsika wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

you don't need BE to escape, do what every one else does RUN

Not sure why, but I have trouble taking your post seriously...

I don't care:)

Tintinabula

currently the lag makes catching sorcs and gap closers a little laughable. 75% of the time I hit charge(and actually start to charge) only for it to grey out while i'm "revving up". I will wind up at an empty space where there was once a sorc.o.O

Halrloprillalar

charles_crowe wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

You obviously never used BE so let me inform you. When you hit BE it takes around .5-1 second for it to fire and move your position already. Also, every single gap closer/pull ability has a longer range than BE.

no, i haven't.

i HAVE used gap closers on bolt escaping sorcerers only to find they're halfway across the map when i've reached the location they were at when i used the skill.

your perceived channeling time is due to latency, and BE is in fact an instant. the server has already placed you at your new location before it sends any information about you using BE to other clients.

http://esohead.com/skills/23234-bolt-escape

i don't mind BE as a tactic, escape or otherwise. it just needs balancing. as-is, you need ESP or a full 24 person group to even catch a half-way decent sorc.

you obviously have never played a sorc. It's not 'instant' like the D3 wormhole rune instant. It's "zenimax instant" which means there is some kind of motion you apparently have to do to fart out the 'bolt' that lets you 'escape', something like 0.25-0.5s or whatever their server decides.

Also, why is your whole raid chasing the sorc? You just need 1-2 of your own good sorcs that feel like wasting their time and potions.

If you are letting him kite your entire raid, I'd say that's a serious raid leadership/focus issue. I mean, it's not even worth the AP per minute at that point...

Sile

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

You obviously never used BE so let me inform you. When you hit BE it takes around .5-1 second for it to fire and move your position already. Also, every single gap closer/pull ability has a longer range than BE.

no, i haven't.

i HAVE used gap closers on bolt escaping sorcerers only to find they're halfway across the map when i've reached the location they were at when i used the skill.

your perceived channeling time is due to latency, and BE is in fact an instant. the server has already placed you at your new location before it sends any information about you using BE to other clients.

http://esohead.com/skills/23234-bolt-escape

i don't mind BE as a tactic, escape or otherwise. it just needs balancing. as-is, you need ESP or a full 24 person group to even catch a half-way decent sorc.

you obviously have never played a sorc. It's not 'instant' like the D3 wormhole rune instant. It's "zenimax instant" which means there is some kind of motion you apparently have to do to fart out the 'bolt' that lets you 'escape', something like 0.25-0.5s or whatever their server decides.

Also, why is your whole raid chasing the sorc? You just need 1-2 of your own good sorcs that feel like wasting their time and potions.

If you are letting him kite your entire raid, I'd say that's a serious raid leadership/focus issue. I mean, it's not even worth the AP per minute at that point...

You should play something other than a sorc and understand why it's so annoying, particularly in a group fight. The ability for sorcs to deal great spike and disengage makes pinning them down and killing them in a group fight, very risky, as if you leave them, they'll get healed and continue their CC & DPS, while giving them the engagement, or you have to essentially sacrifice dudes to chase, since once the 2nd BE is done, the Sorc is well out of your groups cohesion.

Even aligned with the Sorc, I personally will have a charge fail - it'll start the running animation, and then fail, as the sorc does his 2nd BE.

Tbh, it just seems like you really want BE to not get nerfed because you use it as a crutch and can't play worth a damn without it.

charles_crowe

Sile wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

You obviously never used BE so let me inform you. When you hit BE it takes around .5-1 second for it to fire and move your position already. Also, every single gap closer/pull ability has a longer range than BE.

no, i haven't.

i HAVE used gap closers on bolt escaping sorcerers only to find they're halfway across the map when i've reached the location they were at when i used the skill.

your perceived channeling time is due to latency, and BE is in fact an instant. the server has already placed you at your new location before it sends any information about you using BE to other clients.

http://esohead.com/skills/23234-bolt-escape

i don't mind BE as a tactic, escape or otherwise. it just needs balancing. as-is, you need ESP or a full 24 person group to even catch a half-way decent sorc.

you obviously have never played a sorc. It's not 'instant' like the D3 wormhole rune instant. It's "zenimax instant" which means there is some kind of motion you apparently have to do to fart out the 'bolt' that lets you 'escape', something like 0.25-0.5s or whatever their server decides.

Also, why is your whole raid chasing the sorc? You just need 1-2 of your own good sorcs that feel like wasting their time and potions.

If you are letting him kite your entire raid, I'd say that's a serious raid leadership/focus issue. I mean, it's not even worth the AP per minute at that point...

You should play something other than a sorc and understand why it's so annoying, particularly in a group fight. The ability for sorcs to deal great spike and disengage makes pinning them down and killing them in a group fight, very risky, as if you leave them, they'll get healed and continue their CC & DPS, while giving them the engagement, or you have to essentially sacrifice dudes to chase, since once the 2nd BE is done, the Sorc is well out of your groups cohesion.

Even aligned with the Sorc, I personally will have a charge fail - it'll start the running animation, and then fail, as the sorc does his 2nd BE.

Tbh, it just seems like you really want BE to not get nerfed because you use it as a crutch and can't play worth a damn without it.

QFT, also, frozen gif made me smile.

Halrloprillalar

Sile wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

charles_crowe wrote: »

just give the damn skill a channeling time. .5 seconds should be about right.

(the venom shot morph of poison arrow is designed to interrupt channeled skills from range AND stun for 3-5 seconds. it's also available to all players.)

keep cost as is, keep range as is. just give it a channeling time.

You obviously never used BE so let me inform you. When you hit BE it takes around .5-1 second for it to fire and move your position already. Also, every single gap closer/pull ability has a longer range than BE.

no, i haven't.

i HAVE used gap closers on bolt escaping sorcerers only to find they're halfway across the map when i've reached the location they were at when i used the skill.

your perceived channeling time is due to latency, and BE is in fact an instant. the server has already placed you at your new location before it sends any information about you using BE to other clients.

http://esohead.com/skills/23234-bolt-escape

i don't mind BE as a tactic, escape or otherwise. it just needs balancing. as-is, you need ESP or a full 24 person group to even catch a half-way decent sorc.

you obviously have never played a sorc. It's not 'instant' like the D3 wormhole rune instant. It's "zenimax instant" which means there is some kind of motion you apparently have to do to fart out the 'bolt' that lets you 'escape', something like 0.25-0.5s or whatever their server decides.

Also, why is your whole raid chasing the sorc? You just need 1-2 of your own good sorcs that feel like wasting their time and potions.

If you are letting him kite your entire raid, I'd say that's a serious raid leadership/focus issue. I mean, it's not even worth the AP per minute at that point...

You should play something other than a sorc and understand why it's so annoying, particularly in a group fight. The ability for sorcs to deal great spike and disengage makes pinning them down and killing them in a group fight, very risky, as if you leave them, they'll get healed and continue their CC & DPS, while giving them the engagement, or you have to essentially sacrifice dudes to chase, since once the 2nd BE is done, the Sorc is well out of your groups cohesion.

Even aligned with the Sorc, I personally will have a charge fail - it'll start the running animation, and then fail, as the sorc does his 2nd BE.

Tbh, it just seems like you really want BE to not get nerfed because you use it as a crutch and can't play worth a damn without it.

I occasionally play a DK as well. They are massively OP in other ways, as we all know.
I'm also all for buffing NB to be more effective at these kinds of tactics (hit and run) instead of a gimpy half working stealth mechanic they currently have. The other 2 classes are fine in pvp (once they re-fix jabs or whatever)

As it stands, there are two ways to completely counter a sorc:
1) Juggling with knockdowns (not stuns) because breakout apparently doesn't work on that ***.
2) Eclipse

BE itself is necessary otherwise every sorc will die every time someone sneezes at them. And yes, BE annoys me too, having to waste time chasing some ganking *** across the map, with about a 50/50 chance to catch depending on who has more magika to start.

Increase in cost on BE (base or incremental with successive use) will fix 99% of the annoyingness you see.

Sile

You can CC break both KDs and Eclipse. KDs can be iffy though, you're right. A lot of sorcs are bad and rely on BE to be survivable, when you don't actually need it to survive.

The issue with BE is the fact you can chain cast it so easily, and the advantages that gives. If there was a bigger window between casts, it'd still be strong, but it wouldn't be the easymode crutch that it currently is.

As a point of reference, I also have a VR1 sorc, but he sits on the shelf since it's just disgusting how easy any PvP engagement is.

ThreeEyedCrow

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Stopped reading there. You're wrong. Invasion is > range than BE. So is crit charge. Not 100% about the other ones.

You simply let him cast it twice before you reacted. React faster. Use cc preemptively.

You are assuming the Sorc is even in charge range to begin with. Considering the charge range is ~22 and Crystal range is 28 if the Sorc is starting that close then the Sorc has already made a mistake.

Of course when someone makes a mistake it can be exploited.

Halrloprillalar

Sile wrote: »

You can CC break both KDs and Eclipse. KDs can be iffy though, you're right. A lot of sorcs are bad and rely on BE to be survivable, when you don't actually need it to survive.
.

Breakout does NOT work for Eclipse (player version). Eclipse simply has to wear off on its own, or get dispelled (and most sorcs don't slot purge).
Some KDs appear to allow breakout (shards, for example) while others seem to ignore it - like the one from unhorsing and staff 'punt'. I haven't quite figured out the logic for the distinction.

BE does very little in a large scale fight, other than distract the winning zerg for a bit.

However, it allows sorcs to quickly abort unsuccessful ganks or escape enemy ganks, which pisses people off and makes them jealous. I get it.

Give NBs a better stealth and they can join us in the shadows

ErykGrimm

Check the 1.2 PTS notes. More nerfs for everyone.

Tintinabula

May I use the "let it go" GIF when sorcs come here crying after nerf? :P

ErykGrimm

Tintinabula wrote: »

May I use the "let it go" GIF when sorcs come here crying after nerf? :P

Good question, not sure if I could survive the irony.

charles_crowe

Tintinabula wrote: »

May I use the "let it go" GIF when sorcs come here crying after nerf? :P

not quite how i would have gone about solving the BE dilemma, but the change is interesting.

Tintinabula

I posted about a month ago that BE was obviously not costing enough magika. Sorcs posting that they could spam it 12 times in a row was astonishing.

Now the spell will be used for what sorcs said it was for..escaping.Not driving by with a machine gun.

Halrloprillalar

ErykGrimm wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

May I use the "let it go" GIF when sorcs come here crying after nerf? :P

Good question, not sure if I could survive the irony.

You mean escape the irony? Don't bolt to conclusions just yet.

Asava

Tintinabula wrote: »

I posted about a month ago that BE was obviously not costing enough magika. Sorcs posting that they could spam it 12 times in a row was astonishing.

Now the spell will be used for what sorcs said it was for..escaping.Not driving by with a machine gun.

It's not a means of escape with the proposed changes. They need to remove the regen halting and increase the range x2 with the changes that they currently want. 1 BE for 15m will not be able to escape from anyone.

Sile

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

You can CC break both KDs and Eclipse. KDs can be iffy though, you're right. A lot of sorcs are bad and rely on BE to be survivable, when you don't actually need it to survive.
.

Breakout does NOT work for Eclipse (player version). Eclipse simply has to wear off on its own, or get dispelled (and most sorcs don't slot purge).
Some KDs appear to allow breakout (shards, for example) while others seem to ignore it - like the one from unhorsing and staff 'punt'. I haven't quite figured out the logic for the distinction.

BE does very little in a large scale fight, other than distract the winning zerg for a bit.

However, it allows sorcs to quickly abort unsuccessful ganks or escape enemy ganks, which pisses people off and makes them jealous. I get it.

Give NBs a better stealth and they can join us in the shadows

Breakout does work on the Templar Eclipse, and it's morphs. You can't break the unhorse stun, and some of the KD's and breakout have been broken in the last patches - there's been plenty of times where I can't break a C-Frags, despite having full stam.

BE does a lot in an a fight between two organised groups, particularly bolt surge locking up portions of a group.

TLDR: You don't seem to know enough about the way skills work, repeated uses of BE and it's morphs are extremely strong due to the mobility they provide, and the nerf is justifiable.

Halrloprillalar

Sile wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Sile wrote: »

You can CC break both KDs and Eclipse. KDs can be iffy though, you're right. A lot of sorcs are bad and rely on BE to be survivable, when you don't actually need it to survive.
.

Breakout does NOT work for Eclipse (player version). Eclipse simply has to wear off on its own, or get dispelled (and most sorcs don't slot purge).
Some KDs appear to allow breakout (shards, for example) while others seem to ignore it - like the one from unhorsing and staff 'punt'. I haven't quite figured out the logic for the distinction.

BE does very little in a large scale fight, other than distract the winning zerg for a bit.

However, it allows sorcs to quickly abort unsuccessful ganks or escape enemy ganks, which pisses people off and makes them jealous. I get it.

Give NBs a better stealth and they can join us in the shadows

Breakout does work on the Templar Eclipse, and it's morphs. You can't break the unhorse stun, and some of the KD's and breakout have been broken in the last patches - there's been plenty of times where I can't break a C-Frags, despite having full stam.

BE does a lot in an a fight between two organised groups, particularly bolt surge locking up portions of a group.

TLDR: You don't seem to know enough about the way skills work, repeated uses of BE and it's morphs are extremely strong due to the mobility they provide, and the nerf is justifiable.

I have never been able to break out of an Eclipse from an actual player templar. NPC ones yes, PC ones no, unless this change was recent.

The ONLY reason streak is even moderately useful is for ult gain (this is arguably broken and needs fixed) and to gain a sliver of surprise advantage - which only works if the other team isn't expecting you, and are clumped - a bad zerg syndrome.

Randomly spamming streak in a group fight just gets people to focus you faster.
The mobility on both morphs is very strong, but that (used to be) one of the key aspects of the class: range and mobility. And range means nothing when you can't maintain it.