OMG Bolt ESCAPE!!!!

jereri3189b14_ESO2

Watching a single Sorc Bolt back and forth inside a group of people stunning them is hilarious more so when he can STILL bolt escape out when he gets low / stunned and nobody can catch him.... discuss!

Nijjion

ITP: This has been said before.

Though I do believe this skill does still need to be talked about and looked at by Zenimax... there are currently a few posts already about this skill.

Though if you can't bump them go ahead and make a new post and ignore me.

Rosveen

You must be new here.

OtarTheMad

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

Huckdabuck

OMG the CAPSLOCK!

Nijjion

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

Most of those points do not work in a fighting setting and forget that BE has a stun... also the sorc sucks big time as well.

NordJitsu

For the life of me I cannot understand the fixation on this skill. There are plentiful counters to it. What it actually DOES for you isn't very powerful.

It enables you to Escape a fight.

With Streak, you can do a small amount of damage and apply a very short duration stun while re-positioning yourself.

With Ball of Lightning you are sacrificing one of your skill slots entirely for the purpose of getting away, since the ability isn't useful for anything else.

There are abilities in this game that do a lot more CC and a lot more damage for cheaper cost.

In addition to the various ways of shutting down or catching a Bolt Escaping Sorcerer, there numerous chase mechanics that will allow you to catch them if you spec for it.

I don't care that much really. I've found specs that work better in more situations without this skill. Its highly narrow in its applicability and there's other skills you could put in that limited and valuable slot that will serve you well in a variety of situations instead of just one or a few.

The main reason I care is because if ZOS's did nerf this ability it would show that they have no understanding of the game, or else, lack the integrity to tell whiny forum posters why they're wrong (or just ignore them.) The skill already received one needless nerf near the end of the beta process (50% less magicka regen after casting.) This essentially added a cool down in a game that touts no cool downs. Its the only skill in the game that has one, which is pretty unfair and ridiculous already.

I'm happy playing this game with a variety of classes and builds. I enjoy theory crafting, experimenting, and learning new counters and strategies. I understand that the game is balanced as an advanced game of "rock paper scissors" rather than "rock, rock, rock." Diversity, not sameness, is how you achieve balance.

Any negative change to this ability would be bad for the game. I could personally adapt to not use it, but it would indicate to me that ZOS cares more about appeasing whiners than about the actual health of the game, and I'd probably unsubscribe.

AltusVenifus

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

LOL... those don't work... silly propaganda video... I thought they did, then tried them... he got me at first too

NordJitsu

@AltusVenifus‌

Then you weren't something right.

ZOS liked it enough to repost it in the Tamriel chronicle and I've received countless messages from people telling me it worked for them.

Explain what happened to you, what you tried, what didn't work, ect. other wise it just sounds made up.

Baphomet

Use ball of lightning once in combat and you are immune to projectiles for 5 seconds + you can get out of a sticky situation + stun and build ultimate from those you zip through. The empowered version of reflective scales.

Streak is a better choke point ability than any of the ones DKs could ever bring to the table. Spamming it back and forth in crowd of people is more debilitating than talons, standards and what have we not.

Add a little bat swarm on top of that and I am sure most people can see the picture.

Looks a little bit like this, though some people have perfected the tactics even better with mistform worked into the roation:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4U0rDm-a9Z8

JosephChip

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

Interesting video, but the only tactic that really works is th last one: let the sorc go. You have zero hope to catch him.

SeinSchatten

Just give every class the same abilities with a different color... but then people would complain that green is more visual during combat. BUFF GREEN!

AltusVenifus

The test we ran was DK standing behind sorc (sorc was pre-targeted)... both mashed reach and bolt escape... worked on the first pull 100%... then sorc was gone, second, third, 4th reach would eventually fail to counter (I would guess 80% failure rate by the time you get past the second counter). My brother knows how to use the skill and was actually trying to get away (used BE in the opposite direction of my field of view, block to cast ect)... If he starts the fight range... no chance, I mean zero chance I caught him. Well actually, it was zero chance for all the tests, but only because the counter would eventually fail... Also, we didn't test it with immovable up, because... it wouldn't even be a test right?

It doesn't work because it is a no failure counter system, (shield charge, pull, 2 handed charge) verses a spammable skill that the caster just needs to work once. Once he is out of the initial range, there is nothing stopping the spamming. If those counters where non-targeting like bolt escape, it would actually be a counter. Also knockdown immunity, pull immunity is always on especially after the first shield charge. It is instant cast with a stun, so once u have the sorc close, your options are block to avoid stun or have immovable up and guess which way he is going to bolt, so you can try to get a counter off before he is able to get the second bolt off. I'm not even going to mention, if the Sorc has immoveable up, because that is an actually counter to knockdowns, pulls etc... there is nothing I could do if he has that skill rolling.

VR 10 Nightblade with path of darkness... tested this idea like 30 times while ganking (no controlled test). The NB loses way too much ground, while the sorc can stealth or regain magicka to bolt away again. I don't have any evidence, but I believe path of darkness is about half the distance of the BE, so it costs too much to chase one down. Sorc simply covers too much ground too quickly. If it is a race better to use retreating maneuvers since it last longer. My nightblade (heavy armor) can only cast PoD 6 times. I think your video show you bolting like 4 times... which was very nice of you.

Did the test with my brother who is a VR10 and can BE 9 times with a pot.

Here are the 2 tactics that I have found that work:
1. Stay mounted. If the sorc attacks your group, 1 verse 15 like they do all the time, then tries to BE away... horses can run them down.

2. Have your own bolter harass them, so they can't exchange stamina for magic to bolt some more, and let the rest of us mortals catch up.

ZOS liked it enough to repost it in the Tamriel chronicle and I've received countless messages from people telling me it worked for them.

I'd pat you on the back, but I clearly think the video is ridiculous. It reminds me of a timeshare video, where you are trying to sell me a timeshare and telling me what a great investment it is. Do you really believe that people complain about this skill without trying to counter it? I don't know who sent you the messages about it working for them, but with the groups I play with I hear this at least 10 times a night "He's a bolter, just let him go...".

"Explain what happened to you, what you tried, what didn't work, ect. other wise it just sounds made up."

It is funny how different our views are, you think I made up an argument against BE counters, and I think you made a propaganda video to save a easy button for SORCs.

NordJitsu

@AltusVenifus‌

You do know that charge abilities still work with CC immunity? Invasion won't apply the stun for example but will still close the gap.

If you're Medium Armor 1hnd+ Shield and specced for Stam you should easily be able to keep up. The fact that every couple of charges will also stun him (when his CC wears of) is just gravy.

true2moon_ESO

more garbage design from a team who obviously has zero cule about PvP.

how do you give a class such an mobility advantage on top of the fact they can disengage from PvP so easy?! its stupid. we play PvP game for PvP, not to watch people run away from it so easy, as it stands now the majority of players on any given server are sorcs.

The NB sneak is another crap design, again letting a player disengage from PvP easily just make more lame pvp experience.

you want to make a good pvp game, then dont let players escape out of pvp so easy. both of these instant cast spells with no recast timer is just ***.

fire the idiots who designed this garbage and do your company a favor. Next time get someone with a clue about pvp to design your class skills.

Armitas

AltusVenifus wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

LOL... those don't work... silly propaganda video... I thought they did, then tried them... he got me at first too

My favorite part of the video is where the mage "runs out of magic" and....just stops moving..... I guess that was to represent a mage that doesn't have a warlock set, the ability to sprint, or use maneuver.

OtarTheMad

JosephChip wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

Interesting video, but the only tactic that really works is th last one: let the sorc go. You have zero hope to catch him.

I have been caught by another player while trying to bolt escape with my Sorcerer and caught a Sorcerer trying to Bolt Escape away with my DK. Yes it's not the best video but the message is that you CAN counter Bolt Escape.

Halrloprillalar

this thread again.... sigh

NordJitsu

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JosephChip wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

Interesting video, but the only tactic that really works is th last one: let the sorc go. You have zero hope to catch him.

I have been caught by another player while trying to bolt escape with my Sorcerer and caught a Sorcerer trying to Bolt Escape away with my DK. Yes it's not the best video but the message is that you CAN counter Bolt Escape.

I think the thing that throws people off is that they are controlled tests and not a live environment. Its meant to be demonstration.

It would take a lot longer to capture the footage for a similar video made of 100% live situations.

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO

Im a Sorc and yes Im using BE to get away from fights.

But I would totally change it against a selfhealing skill like dragonblood.

Critical surge is fine, but only for pve impulse spamming. I need something you can use without being a glas cannon with 50% critchance and especially without the luck aspect to crit

Dark exchange is also fine, but after dodging out of the third talons you dont get much hp

Artemiisia

OMG Thread ESCAPE!!!!

eliisra

NB's would be able to do the exact same thing, if Shadow Cloak worked as intended. Now their in-combat stealth is very unreliable, due to glitches.

But letting classes escape from a fight, is hardly game-breaking or new. Most mmoprgs have a class with a similar skill, that let's them flee in combat. It's a force stealth or some sort of blink/speed skills.

Bolt Escape could probably have a higher magicka costs or some other adjustment. I don't think us sorcs should be able to spam and move freely all over the battle field. It should be something you use once or twice to avoid focus fire. Little bit out of proportion, agreed. Also considering how many mediocre class skills I have that costs 1/4 of my magicka bar. Than Bolt Escape being really good and really cheap. Makes no sense. Magicka/stamina costs in general seems a bit random.

Harakh

NordJitsu wrote: »

@AltusVenifus‌

You do know that charge abilities still work with CC immunity? Invasion won't apply the stun for example but will still close the gap.

If you're Medium Armor 1hnd+ Shield and specced for Stam you should easily be able to keep up. The fact that every couple of charges will also stun him (when his CC wears of) is just gravy.

Charges dont go in vertical if a sorc bolt over a smal hill charge wont work.

Teargrants

jereri3189b14_ESO2 wrote: »

Watching a single Sorc Bolt back and forth inside a group of people stunning them is hilarious more so when he can STILL bolt escape out when he gets low / stunned and nobody can catch him.... discuss!

You know the right mouse button, the one that lets you BLOCK? Have you tried maybe using it against streak spammers? Hint: something magical happens when you block Streak.

And are you seriously claiming no one can catch a Streak user or are you saying he magically respeced Streak into Ball of Lightning. Cuz I catch the ones that spam Streak through groups and then try to run away w/ my own Bolt Escape. Port after them 3-4 times, hit them w/ Crystal Shards that's proc'd by then, and what happens after should be self evident. It's even more hilarious if they try to port and go stealth, I just port around the area w/ mage light out.

Now if you're complaining that ppl can't catch Ball of Lightning, that's a bit more legit. But tell me, what offensive benefit does that have? They can come back after regening? That gives you time to go into stealth, which should be common sense. They port away and use Dark Conversion to refill magica then come back? Congrats, now they have no stamina and 1/3-1/2 their magica is gone from porting back to you.

Discuss!

JosephChip

OtarTheMad wrote: »

JosephChip wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

learn... lol

Interesting video, but the only tactic that really works is th last one: let the sorc go. You have zero hope to catch him.

I have been caught by another player while trying to bolt escape with my Sorcerer and caught a Sorcerer trying to Bolt Escape away with my DK. Yes it's not the best video but the message is that you CAN counter Bolt Escape.

In some cases, when the stars alligne, yes you can. I have caught a few sorcerers with invasion as well. The problem is that under regular circumnstances it is impossible. You need to perfectly target the sorcerer to use invasion, while he can use BE two times in a row just aiming in a general direction and already be out of range. There is NO appropriate counter to BE. Some times a sorcerer can be caught if in a bad spot or surrounded by multiple people with gap closers and cc. The exception just confirms the rule. Not even mentioning when a sorcerer decide to run from a 1vs1 through you spamming BE 3 times before you can turn aroud, aim at him (if there is no hill/tree/rock/wall in the way...) and use invasion. It doesn't matter how many times some people try to convince others that there are ways to counter it, the reality doesn't change. And players won't completely stop bringing this issue up any time soon.

Alephen

any skill has a possibility of being countered. bash as it was wasnt an i win button. many bash spammers have been killed, some before they fired off a single bash. some prenerf vampire exploiters were killed as well.

so the 'if you spec specifically against bolt escape it is possible to sometimes kill the sorc if you are lucky.' is a pretty stupid arguement.

Teargrants

You don't need to spec, the answer is very simple. You just need your own sorc to counter bolt escapers by bolting after them. Streak spammers can be killed by a cookie cutter sorc build chasing after them [bolt escape][crystal shards][mages fury][daedric curse]. Ball of Lightning is harder to catch, but the trade off is they lose the combat utility.

ThreeEyedCrow

Kirsika wrote: »

Now if you're complaining that ppl can't catch Ball of Lightning, that's a bit more legit. But tell me, what offensive benefit does that have? They can come back after regening? That gives you time to go into stealth, which should be common sense. They port away and use Dark Conversion to refill magica then come back? Congrats, now they have no stamina and 1/3-1/2 their magica is gone from porting back to you.

Discuss!

You can't usually enter stealth in that short time due to how long the stealth detection mechanic lasts.

true2moon_ESO

again its stupid design to have a class have it so easy to break out of combat with another player. You cant root him, which again is stupid, and he can pretty much pick and choose his battles. It would be fun to see the class breakdown on PvP these days, because its mostly sorcs. Soon it will be 90% sorcs, as all noobs will play them just so they can run from combat. Then you have a zero PvP game.

To say, play a sorc to counter is stupid, its just horrible design. Skills like BE and the cloak to get out of combat should cost magika and stam, to the point where you cant just run more then 2 times in a row.

and you cant just run down a BE sorc with a horse if you are in combat, not to mention most sorcs can even out run a fast horse with their castings.

you can even add some heals to this if you change it, because heals are not that big a deal, its the fact that combat can be escaped so easy, it kinds ruins the whole point of PvP. This crap just encourages zerg play.

The cool thing about croydiil use to be the fact you could fight smaller scale PvP, now that is really ruined by these dumb skills.

BrassRazoo

Wipe the tears from your eyes and learn to aim.

Teargrants

true2moon_ESO wrote: »

To say, play a sorc to counter is stupid, its just horrible design. Skills like BE and the cloak to get out of combat should cost magika and stam, to the point where you cant just run more then 2 times in a row.

So you're saying that every class should be able to counter every other class, and no one class should be better at countering another class than any other? And to top it off, no one should be able to escape combat? In a game where everyone can stealth and ambush ppl?

Increase bolt escape and cloak costs to only be usable 2x? So, 1000 magica...?