Trials completion in 11mins?

Arzarzel

Trials are just plain uninteresting with the sets they provide (and yeah i know the ones from last boss)......

Andy22

Head.hunter wrote: »

You either get to the safe zone with your group or wipe, and no amount of ultimate spamming is going to make a difference...

U do know that the DK ulti caps all incoming damage to 3% of there max. health? This skill is why DK's can solo anything atm, its simply stupid designed. This shows how lazy they balance skills.

If the DK can generate ultimate fast enough, u basically play in invulnerability mode.

So while other classes need to move or whatever, the DK just pops this ultimate and uses 1 self heal, thats it. The 75 damage u get at 2500 HP, is a joke. So yeah the none DK's will get hit by 500-900 damage 3-6 times in a typical trial ae, the DK gets hit by 6x 75 damage....

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

Well dont forget we where in 10 minutes at second boss.. But ye its an exploit for sure

hamon

Andy22 wrote: »

Head.hunter wrote: »

You either get to the safe zone with your group or wipe, and no amount of ultimate spamming is going to make a difference...

U do know that the DK ulti caps all incoming damage to 3% of there max. health? This skill is why DK's can solo anything atm, its simply stupid designed. This shows how lazy they balance skills.

If the DK can generate ultimate fast enough, u basically play in invulnerability mode.

So while other classes need to move or whatever, the DK just pops this ultimate and uses 1 self heal, thats it. The 75 damage u get at 2500 HP, is a joke. So yeah the none DK's will get hit by 500-900 damage 3-6 times in a typical trial ae, the DK gets hit by 6x 75 damage....

this is partially why they could have 10 folk bashing on one dk in pvp and health bars were hardly moving.. but of course they nerfed shield blocking instead of this utterly OP ultimate. While also blanket nerfing who every class gets ultimate.

Tankqull

hamon wrote: »

this is partially why they could have 10 folk bashing on one dk in pvp and health bars were hardly moving.. but of course they nerfed shield blocking instead of this utterly OP ultimate. While also blanket nerfing who every class gets ultimate.

nope.

ShintaiDK

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

nope.

Yes.

Andy22

ShintaiDK wrote: »

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

nope.

Yes.

10 * 75 dmg/s = 750 dmg/s

I could not test if this 3% cap is applied before or after armor/sr mitigation. So u either just need a 75 dmg attack or need to deal (75 * 1.5) 113 per attack.

So pick the fastest multi-hit attacks u can get, DW rapid strikes/templar jabs and such, dot's come in handy also.

Have fun needling him down I would advice to stay at range and rune/snare him, so he cant regen ultimate to keep this charade up.

Kililin

Andy22 wrote: »

ShintaiDK wrote: »

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

nope.

Yes.

10 * 75 dmg/s = 750 dmg/s

I could not test if this 3% cap is applied before or after armor/sr mitigation. So u either just need a 75 dmg attack or need to deal (75 * 1.5) 113 per attack.

So pick the fastest multi-hit attacks u can get, DW rapid strikes/templar jabs and such, dot's come in handy also.

Have fun needling him down I would advice to stay at range and rune/snare him, so he cant regen ultimate to keep this charade up.

This would be a cool feature, if every class had mechanics that would force special tactics to get them down, or avoid their special (whatever it would be)

Unfotunately there are very few class builds forcing special tactics.
I dont think it is good design if some builds are pvp boss-mobs and others are the trash... (Yes in my opinion emperor is also bad design.)

Armitas

Gloran wrote: »

I don't actually know if this goes with the policy of the Forums, advertising streams, but we are streaming those runs (yes even 11 minutes) legit, on www.twitch.tv/seyocean

The video never plays. It just says "offline". Anyone else getting that? Adds will play but no video. (NM I see)

Veakoth

hamon wrote: »

if all you need is 11 dk's and maybe one temp for heals to be at maximum efficiency you classes are broken [/b]

Thier templar is actually their tank.

Sorc's are out healing Templar's atm for aoe (mostly every fight in trials is aoe for heals) and maintaining massive dps builds at the same time.
Templar's are better for healing in pvp though.

Tankqull

ShintaiDK wrote: »

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

nope.

Yes.

still nope - while you dont take much dmg wich is true the dmg you are dealing is rater low aswell as 90% of his dmg is generated by ultimates and magma armor just dont do any dmg - so he will run into resource issues without pressureing anyone.

Andy22

still nope - while you dont take much dmg wich is true the dmg you are dealing is rater low aswell as 90% of his dmg is generated by ultimates and magma armor just dont do any dmg - so he will run into resource issues without pressureing anyone.

I think the point is that u only need one "decoy" Corrosive Armor DK and simply send him into the enemy group. The DK can now use whatever dps/cc ability he likes and break up the enemy group. Its not about a DK soloing 10 other players, but this one ultimate makes him OP in PvE and allows for some really funny gameplay in PvP.

If i had this ultimate as NB, i would come up with a lot of funny PvE/PvP builds.

Axer

Wargasmo wrote: »

As it stands, we get the worst of both worlds. Encounters are tuned to be easy, hence the laughable 11 min clears by stacked groups, and the pug community, well aware of class imbalance, is perpetuating its own system of discrimination. People want DK and sorc stacked raids with a temp healer or 2. NB's get the shaft.

lol. No.

The funny thing the DPS checks are NOT tuned to be easy. They are tuned to be extremely difficult.

And infact you NEED close to sort of DPS the 11 minute run put out to EVEN COMPLETE.

They are HARD DESIGNED for a group of stacked DK/Sorcs. If you even think about taking a single NB/ or more then 2 Templar, your DKs and Sorcs have to be even more insane to compensate.

Currently the estimate needed on the third boss is about 700 single target, per DPS. If you take 9 dps, 2 healer and 1 tank. (About the bare minimum needed to survive, tho the tank could actually solo heal it if he was an EXTREMELY skilled. max geared templar, and other players perfectly timed defensive skills).

700 is near impossible currently for a templar and NB. (They only even have a chance with destro staff, which they are vastly worse at using then a dk or sorc)
Easy enough for a DK. They should be putting out 1k+
Doable for a sorc, they can do 600-700 early on, the nearly double when the mobs/boss is under 20%.

So no.. The only difference in the top times is
A) Refinement. They run ultra fast and dont stop for anything.
No deaths.

Overall raid dps isn't much different. You plain require a ton to win. The DPS check is VERY HIGH atm.

There's a reason there is only a single guild in EP that has completed it so far.. And it's because of that dps check and class inbalance. My guild can survive through every single wave of the wisp boss like it's a joke our healers are so strong, but we don't have enough DPS log on, and it fails when she decides it's time to hit us with a 9000 point undodgeable aoe and end it.

Zaxq

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO wrote: »

Zaxq wrote: »

Just checked the EU leaderboards.

The 4th and 2nd fastest clears for two of the trials have been completed by a group of 2 players.

1 sorc and 1 DK.

Zaxq, the leaderboard position are unique per player. If the 2nd and 4th are comprised of only 2 players, it is because the people who they did it with had already registered a better time. They did it with 12 people like anybody else.

I'm ranking 5th on the NA leaderboard with only 2-3 partners at the same rank because I did it with people who ranked between 1 and 4th on previous runs and that run got a better time than the people who held 5th before our run.

If you bring up the leaderboards, it shows you the top 5 groups of people that completed and the times they did it in.

groups 1-3 are 12 players (all of which you can see) group 4 is those 2 players, group 5 is 12 players all of which you can see.

I could be wrong, I only took a quick glance out of curiosity.

Wargasmo

Axer wrote: »

Wargasmo wrote: »

As it stands, we get the worst of both worlds. Encounters are tuned to be easy, hence the laughable 11 min clears by stacked groups, and the pug community, well aware of class imbalance, is perpetuating its own system of discrimination. People want DK and sorc stacked raids with a temp healer or 2. NB's get the shaft.

lol. No.

The funny thing the DPS checks are NOT tuned to be easy. They are tuned to be extremely difficult.

And infact you NEED close to sort of DPS the 11 minute run put out to EVEN COMPLETE.

They are HARD DESIGNED for a group of stacked DK/Sorcs. If you even think about taking a single NB/ or more then 2 Templar, your DKs and Sorcs have to be even more insane to compensate.

Currently the estimate needed on the third boss is about 700 single target, per DPS. If you take 9 dps, 2 healer and 1 tank. (About the bare minimum needed to survive, tho the tank could actually solo heal it if he was an EXTREMELY skilled. max geared templar, and other players perfectly timed defensive skills).

700 is near impossible currently for a templar and NB. (They only even have a chance with destro staff, which they are vastly worse at using then a dk or sorc)
Easy enough for a DK. They should be putting out 1k+
Doable for a sorc, they can do 600-700 early on, the nearly double when the mobs/boss is under 20%.

So no.. The only difference in the top times is
A) Refinement. They run ultra fast and dont stop for anything.
No deaths.

Overall raid dps isn't much different. You plain require a ton to win. The DPS check is VERY HIGH atm.

There's a reason there is only a single guild in EP that has completed it so far.. And it's because of that dps check and class inbalance. My guild can survive through every single wave of the wisp boss like it's a joke our healers are so strong, but we don't have enough DPS log on, and it fails when she decides it's time to hit us with a 9000 point undodgeable aoe and end it.

I'm assuming you're referring to the third boss. Assuming 2 healers, 1 tank, and the rest dps, your dps'ers only need to maintain 700 single target to beat this fight. And that's assuming the healers and tank sit there with a thumb up their ass. More likely, your tank will be outputting around 300 dps and your healers around 200 dps, which means your average dps only needs to pump around 650 dps.

Even as a gimplar with the recent bug to biting jabs nerfing my best dps move I can still hit the 650 dps mark, esp if I start the fight with a full ulti. Everyone should be able to do this. Failing to output at least this amount given a full burn scenario with as little actual mechanics as this fight has just means you're bad at dps... and lets face it... most people in this game are. Just because you queue or lfg as dps and you hit buttons shouldn't guarantee that you win.

People take dk's and sorcs because bad dk's still do 600-700 dps and bad sorcs still do 500-600. Unfortunately, bad Templars and NB's tend to do around 300 dps, at which point you might as well have taken another healer or backup tank. This trial is tuned for a balanced raid performing decently. or a bunch of op classes and specs performing poorly. And because most eso players play poorly, the end result is that people stack DK's. Why take a chance and hope to get a good Temp or NB when the DK is a fairly sure bet regardless of skill level.

kewl

PlagueMonk wrote: »

ALL FOUR classes should be desired in groups to deal with the content efficiently but that is not what is happening. The other two classes need to bring something crucial to the table and they obviously are not.

Exactly. But class balance can take years. Even mature MMOs are still fine tuning. We have a bumpy road ahead.

kewl

Lovely wrote: »

There's ONE templar there! I still have hope!

@Lovely‌

Selodaoc

Nothing about DK is broken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F-AihITyYqQ

kitsinni

This is pretty much what happens when you hand pick a group of people and they are the only people allowed to test new content and they are more concerned with getting ahead and finding exploits than reporting the bugs.

bwilson.homeb16_ESO

Clearly they managed to avoid the recent patch and took prenerf Templars in spamming Biting Jabs.

Least that's the only thing I could think of, since that was the only skill deemed overpowered enough to require 'rebalancing' and clipping the wings of all those Templar DPS machines...

kirnmalidus

The question I want to know the answer to is how many of the people in the group on top of the leaderboard are on PTS...

Because I would be willing to bet that anyone with access to PTS is aware of exploits that could be used to put in a time like that.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

kirnmalidus wrote: »

The question I want to know the answer to is how many of the people in the group on top of the leaderboard are on PTS...

Because I would be willing to bet that anyone with access to PTS is aware of exploits that could be used to put in a time like that.

But people on the PTS dont try to find exploits to abuse, they try to find exploits to report to the proper authorities so they dont make it live! Don't bash on our heros toughin it on the PTS servers, getting the game balanced and fun for all totally free of charge!

Evergreen

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We've got eyes on this, folks. Thank you.

So nice to see a staff response. This is why I'm being patient until issues in the game are ironed out; the staff at least always acknowledge issues that need addressing.

Anatha

kitsinni wrote: »

This is pretty much what happens when you hand pick a group of people and they are the only people allowed to test new content and they are more concerned with getting ahead and finding exploits than reporting the bugs.

I have been testing this game since last July as a weekend beta tester and since October as a PTS tester. I don't know how many bug reports I filed. I lost count. I did my job.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Staff response that they have their eye on it is one thing. What is the dev's thoughts about whats been going on? do they /applaud the 2 class + same armor/weapon stackers, or do they /facepalm about letting this stuff go into live and furthermore into craglorn?

Gloran

As I have stated before, we haven't spent any time on PTS, we were also streaming the 11 minute run, and funny as it is ZOS_JessicaFolsom was watching it.

Yes Sorcs do good DPS, but im confident a Nightblade (leveling one at the moment) can compete easily on the same level of output or do even more.
Feel free to watch us anytime if you think we are exploiting or abusing broken mechanics.
With reflecting the projectiles of the 3rd Boss (pretty much the only thing she does anyways), the Tank averages at about 700 DPS.

No we didn't pick classes because they were OP or whatnot, we used what we had. If you think you can do The Mage with 11 DK's and one Healer, i'll watch you getting wrecked by a single chainlightning.

We are using builds for DPS we put some thought into, can you really blame people wanting to be most efficient?

Edit: Also any stable run with 0 Death will average around 20 minutes

Hearts

Its possible to get to the first boss in about 1.5 minutes without exploiting, the second boss in about 4 minutes without exploiting, the third and fourth boss don't (technically) have trash between them.
The average speedrun is about 15 minutes and i can figure out ways to cut that down to 12 minutes and another minute by good DPS.

Most people are slow DPSers, a solid good group can take down the first boss by the time the light phase comes up, most people do it in like 5 light phases.
The second boss can be beaten by the time the second adds come up, most groups do it in god knows how long.
The third boss can be beaten without killing the adds, shaving off 1 minute of the DPS Race that is needed, and even without that, a solid group while killing the adds can beat it before the 5 adds spawn.

Its the LAST boss that is hard as hell.. If your DPS is below 700, you're going to die, if you cant beat the first boss by the time the first light phase comes, you die, if you cant beat the second boss by the time the second/third adds spawn, you die, if you cant beat the third boss by the time the five adds spawn, you die.

11 minutes and 29 seconds is definitely doable, kudos to the group that did it as they must have spent a lot of time figuring out how to beat the Mage.
Personally i would love to be able to talk to a sorcerer in that group, i've heard sorcerers can get solid 1k Single target DPS on first boss and i can't get it above 850.

Armitas

Gloran wrote: »

I don't actually know if this goes with the policy of the Forums, advertising streams, but we are streaming those runs (yes even 11 minutes) legit, on www.twitch.tv/seyocean

@Gloran Was watching the twitch at the time of this writing. Not sure if you are the one posting the twitch but I have a lot of respect for you after hearing the things you said tonight.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

Hearts wrote: »

Its possible to get to the first boss in about 1.5 minutes without exploiting, the second boss in about 4 minutes without exploiting, the third and fourth boss don't (technically) have trash between them.
The average speedrun is about 15 minutes and i can figure out ways to cut that down to 12 minutes and another minute by good DPS.

Most people are slow DPSers, a solid good group can take down the first boss by the time the light phase comes up, most people do it in like 5 light phases.
The second boss can be beaten by the time the second adds come up, most groups do it in god knows how long.
The third boss can be beaten without killing the adds, shaving off 1 minute of the DPS Race that is needed, and even without that, a solid group while killing the adds can beat it before the 5 adds spawn.

Its the LAST boss that is hard as hell.. If your DPS is below 700, you're going to die, if you cant beat the first boss by the time the first light phase comes, you die, if you cant beat the second boss by the time the second/third adds spawn, you die, if you cant beat the third boss by the time the five adds spawn, you die.

11 minutes and 29 seconds is definitely doable, kudos to the group that did it as they must have spent a lot of time figuring out how to beat the Mage.
Personally i would love to be able to talk to a sorcerer in that group, i've heard sorcerers can get solid 1k Single target DPS on first boss and i can't get it above 850.

Seems intresting tough, but still its going to be DK/Sorc raids.. Im beginning to give up to this game.. Im templar tough, and want to finish with my guild.. But if what you say is right.. Seems really hard

Hearts

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

Hearts wrote: »

Its possible to get to the first boss in about 1.5 minutes without exploiting, the second boss in about 4 minutes without exploiting, the third and fourth boss don't (technically) have trash between them.
The average speedrun is about 15 minutes and i can figure out ways to cut that down to 12 minutes and another minute by good DPS.

Most people are slow DPSers, a solid good group can take down the first boss by the time the light phase comes up, most people do it in like 5 light phases.
The second boss can be beaten by the time the second adds come up, most groups do it in god knows how long.
The third boss can be beaten without killing the adds, shaving off 1 minute of the DPS Race that is needed, and even without that, a solid group while killing the adds can beat it before the 5 adds spawn.

Its the LAST boss that is hard as hell.. If your DPS is below 700, you're going to die, if you cant beat the first boss by the time the first light phase comes, you die, if you cant beat the second boss by the time the second/third adds spawn, you die, if you cant beat the third boss by the time the five adds spawn, you die.

11 minutes and 29 seconds is definitely doable, kudos to the group that did it as they must have spent a lot of time figuring out how to beat the Mage.
Personally i would love to be able to talk to a sorcerer in that group, i've heard sorcerers can get solid 1k Single target DPS on first boss and i can't get it above 850.

Seems intresting tough, but still its going to be DK/Sorc raids.. Im beginning to give up to this game.. Im templar tough, and want to finish with my guild.. But if what you say is right.. Seems really hard

God no, you can do it with nightblades if you want to, if you want a 10 minute run, then sadly yeah, DK and Sorcerers, even templars.
But if youre doing a normal 15 min speedrun, 3 NB, 3 Temp, 3 DK, 3 Sorc is enough. Youre not useless.

Im not sure where they stripped down the extra 30 sec for 11m 29s tho.. I can only strip it down to 12 mins.