Would you like a relaunch?

WilliamTee

I picked option 2 cos I was interested in how an open ended option would work in a poll other than 'other - please specify'...

Grao

I voted to keep it up.

All MMOs have bugs and balance issues. It is a common place and those are always being worked upon, improved upon. Would I have preferred ZoS did better beta testing? Of course yes, but I don't think taking the game down now that it was released is the solution.

Why? I don't think ZoS could afford re-releasing the game. Simple as that... It would be better if they stopped releasing new content now that Craglorn is out and focused all their efforts into improving the game they have. WoW wasn't released perfect either >.> Even the extensions are not released 100% bug free and their team is far more experienced than ZoS.

ErykGrimm

So many entitled children posting invalid opinions on subject matter they don't understand. Taking the game down now would require another investment from shareholders. No revenue coming in from subs, no paychecks for the devs. Do you really think shareholders are forgiving enough to pump more cash into the game so it can relaunch? Attempting a relaunch would kill the game, unequivocally. The only remaining course of action is to work with their community and bug fix. Replace 95% of the people given access to the PTS and we would actually get new content that was tested. Instead too many testers are using the opportunity to exploit the rest of the players and, voila here we are.

AvalonRanger

No relaunch. It's good idea.But maybe It's impossible.

Instead of relaunch. developer should do questionnaire research like a beta test once again. And,should get current ESO situation more precisely.

Tarwin

A re-launch would be devastating for ESO. FFXIV got away with it as people left before even getting past level 10. Then came back to a much improved experience. ESO has so many Vets, my guess is they would not re-sub

Yankee

Heck no on a relaunch. I am not leveling 2 characters into VR again.

They just need to fix stuff.

This poll is ridiculous.

Fshober28b14_ESO

JD2013 wrote: »

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

It's funny how when you enjoy this game, you're labelled a "fanboy" and dismissed. Wonderfully hilarious.

I don't think anyone is terming anyone a fan boy based off the single basis of just 'enjoying' the game. And to this topic at hand, being a 'fan boy' and what it actually means to be a 'fan boy' (which is a fanatical player with a disproportionate interest for the game compared to the average player), is relevant to here because of how that will reflect in the numbers. So where you got 'dismissed' because of being a 'fan boy' fails to meet logic as to how you came to this conclusion.

Of course, I could just say you made it easy to read who you are.... that you're a fan boy thats over sensitive to this poll....and thus living up to your title =] kudos!

Kudos on such a great reply. You must feel very proud of yourself :-)

I am a fan of the game. I also know it has problems. But I don't let that ruin my enjoyment of the game, as I've been very lucky and encountered very few problems. A relaunch is not the answer.

I hear you bud and I can respect your intensity for ESO from your point of view, and I am glad you find such implicit enjoyment, and are willing to be fan enough to over-look the mountain of issues that goes way and well above any pushed out game launch I have seen in a decade with exception to FFXIV.

ZoS I am sure is frankly quite giddy with happiness they have you on board right now, because they REALLY need you and lots like you. I am still in the game myself because I wholeheartedly want this game to be all it can be just like you do, but I am a decade long mmo gamer with no TES history and not a fan like you, so I see things through a different lens. I am not out here riding out any negative hate or smear campaign hideously bashing this game and berating it like many forum posters have done. But, that said I still have my grievances as so a very very large and real number of players that also see things thru a different lens that you do, fan or not.

Gisgo

Square Enix turned an epic failure into one of the most polished and boring MMOs ever released. Its paying back, but as a player i cant like it.

Im not sure i want ESO to do the same, but at the same time, having to rebalance classes and skills from scratch, it wouldnt be a bad idea.

I dont know.

Fshober28b14_ESO

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

One more thought...the timing on this poll...Had this poll been asked about 2-3 weeks ago, just as the first month ended the result would have been dramatically different. A ton of players have since made an exodus from ESO, and I guarantee that if they were still here the true results would have shown in massive favor of a relaunch...hands down.

Forum polls are a reflections of exactly what community you are polling. The sample size is minuscule, you can't extrapolate it to be relevant and even if you do, your sample size is biased based on the type of people who come to the forums in the first place. Which may not reflect the actual majority that play the game.

Heck even in politics, turn out rates for voting is ~ 50%, and most of those people can't agree with any certainty on the same direction. Which means, a very small fraction of the population actually agree on one direction.

Same problem plagues MMOs.

Fair enough, there is a lot of truth to your statement. However, at this point...those of us still playing ESO, both TES fans and mmo players alike, we are out here in the field playing and we are part of the overall community wide discussion on and off the forums. We have a real-feel finger on the pulse. We are here in the field seeing the results daily since launch. It may not be an exact science, but you know when something is heading south...a poll just helps generally guide you to that conclusion a little more as an extra tool. You know when you know when something is really well received or not whether there is a poll involved or not.

Locke_ESO

It's obviously not going to be relaunched and quite frankly there are not enough major problems to even consider such a course of action. What the game needs is to address some issues more thoroughly (bots and cheating), some strong class balancing and rapid expansion and diversification of its content. There is a strong core of content but it's rather narrow in focus.

Fshober28b14_ESO

Ohioastro wrote: »

There is no universe where a relaunch happens. This thread is the rough equivalent of arguing whether Spiderman could beat Superman - fun, I suppose, but not germane to the world we live in.

Ever heard of FFXIV?

Fshober28b14_ESO

Trouvo wrote: »

So basically what people are wanting, those in support of the OP, is to get to play for free for a period of time and get a special item? Because they are already putting out the fixes, they are adding content already, and the only real difference between what they have already said is planned and what FFXIV did was we are still subbed and its not officially down for relaunch?

In both cases we would still be playing
In both cases they would still be adding content
In both cases the game gets better
In one case we dont have to pay
In both cases they state they are fixing things
In one case they state they made mistakes
In both cases we get exclusive pets (dat beta monkey XD)

I fail to see any real worthwhile difference as a consumer other than getting to play for free for a while.

Well you said it, you fail to see, try a different lens.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

One more thought...the timing on this poll...Had this poll been asked about 2-3 weeks ago, just as the first month ended the result would have been dramatically different. A ton of players have since made an exodus from ESO, and I guarantee that if they were still here the true results would have shown in massive favor of a relaunch...hands down.

Forum polls are a reflections of exactly what community you are polling. The sample size is minuscule, you can't extrapolate it to be relevant and even if you do, your sample size is biased based on the type of people who come to the forums in the first place. Which may not reflect the actual majority that play the game.

Heck even in politics, turn out rates for voting is ~ 50%, and most of those people can't agree with any certainty on the same direction. Which means, a very small fraction of the population actually agree on one direction.

Same problem plagues MMOs.

Fair enough, there is a lot of truth to your statement. However, at this point...those of us still playing ESO, both TES fans and mmo players alike, we are out here in the field playing and we are part of the overall community wide discussion on and off the forums. We have a real-feel finger on the pulse. We are here in the field seeing the results daily since launch. It may not be an exact science, but you know when something is heading south...a poll just helps generally guide you to that conclusion a little more as an extra tool. You know when you know when something is really well received or not whether there is a poll involved or not.

It could also be used as visual aid to push your propaganda in the direction that you want it to. In most cases, this is the exact intent and purpose. To create misleading direction on how the "community" feels. When in reality, your just way off base. Not saying this is the case here. Just my observations of polls over the course of MMO history, it seems like there is a real push in the most recent MMO launches to criticize and mislead the general public down an approach that the game is in disrepair, and it should be abandoned at all cost.

Heck, its also knowledge that people are paid money to hijack competitions forums/community and rally the troops against the developers.

Just saying, its not always doom and gloom that the forums are purveying. If you read forums/new about the current state of our climate/environment, we should be doing a relaunch on the earth. But if you go outside and experience a walk in the forest from time to time, you know that things aren't Armageddon outside.

Fshober28b14_ESO

Swordguy wrote: »

very few mmo's are without bugs, and really, the 90/10 approach (the first 90% of efficiency takes 10% of the effort that the last 10% requires) is all we can ask for, in order for new content to keep rolling out on schedule. Every mmo that I've seen get too far behind schedule with content have crumpled like a train hitting a wall.

Taking down the game to enhance the game and add more content is not the right approach, as it is apparent that whatever testing they employed/used before and after launch is letting huge bugs/sploits through. at best, we would have more content and features, or no new content, but instead an itemshop and a new business model. Too many people are hoping for too many things, but the truth is that game development for ESO will progress organically, and take the path of least resistance/cost, and few people will actually have a say in how this all transpires, and they cannot please everyone... not even WoW does, not by a long shot.

It's really hard not to pin you as an apologist here, so I won't in fairness. However, the point isn't whether this game has bugs or not
( I think we all can agree all games have bugs but to a reasonable limit)...that was never the sole original discussion. The OP is discussing and with a poll how the game was not ready for launch yet over all, then add in all the other laundry list of issues(including bugs), and whether this is rises to the level that a relaunch would benefit this game. Arguing and debating solely over 'bugs' is in another post.

kewl

Potenza

I am not having any problems with this game. If there are adjustments to be made they will do it.
In my opinion, this poll is biased, based on your 'opinion', that the game is 'broken'.

ttwinklerub17_ESO

these are the things that need to be address immediately
1.BOTS
a) - ie watch the Collision flag - if someone alters it -it red flags the system
this would get rid of flying bots and underground ones - 1/2 the bot problem
b) keep prior xyz info - determine speed hack based on prior location(s) and the time changes

certain distance(now - before)/(now-prior interval) certain time = velocity
if your velocity exceeds a the normal sprint speed then you are flagged and monitored for botting

if you do those two thing then you get the worst of the botting under control
Id rather deal with a fair chance against bots for resources that those that use hacks

sprinting to beat a bot is no different that sprinting to beat another user


2.spammers
3. game critical bugs - main quest - crashes - not allowing players to log in pr play the game

---

these are the things that SHOULD have been done in the game

1.Swimming and quests underwater - I miss the slaughter fish

I remember having to go into underwater ruins - holding breath and using potions to lengthen breath or to breath underwater and health potions ..hoping to time it right to get to the next air pocket and pray to god I didn't get held up in a fight underwater too long

2. ok if the bots fly then open it up... bring back flying potions/spells and featherfall as well

if I remember right having to fly up ward to a ledge or further dungeon area out of reach from normal questing - is a easter egg
give us the hunt to look for hidden areas and stuff

or make areas like in the original Videos for this game have us tunneling and climbing up sheer cliffs and straddling a single rope line across a chasm

believe me a feather fall potion would be handy if you have a long fall to a death

and it be quite fun having to be an acrobat or thief scaling walls again



3. make the dungeons longer not CANNED (same dungeon every time)

like where the fun running a dungeon if there is no traps and giant leaps of faith or climbing/swimming and include walking thru lava and gaseous areas

let alone climb a mountain to it's very peak = morrwind/oblivian

where is the swinging blades of doom or the death beams
and hidden doors or moving boulders that require some skills and mini games or cross questing from other dungeons

I remember having to shoot arrows at targets - eye sockets/hole to activate doorways

or pull chains/levers in correct sequence
and leave some doom ending scenerio if it wasn't right

right now the dungeons are boring and the bots make it worse

make a dungeon that leads to hell..or leads us to the lost dwemers
I love the lonnnng dungeon quest

have some imagination - everything should not look the same of feel the same

the way it is right now - id rather have the single player campaign with an option to bring in friends to your instance - that gets rid of the bots

you can make bars/inns and local gathering areas mingle with other online members

4 dungeon mob spawning - to often because of the multiple people online
give areas to loot and explore that don't have mobs so the experience/atmosphere of looking for stuff is back
right now you can't seriously look without a respawn and having to watch your back to loot or explore

and then it get boring hitting the same monster over and over again to complete your goal...ie the grind

people want to investigate everything and take everything - read everything

and of course the loot nerfing doesn't help here


5.Quit nerfing stuff - boxes,chests/drawers/mobs - just put a loot/experience timer on everything(each item/monster) - like once every 8 hrs for everything

then everyone can loot everything but only do it once every 4 or 8 hrs
this forces exploration and ends the bots staying in one place and area

no sense hitting mobs for exp or loot since you only get it once and you have to wait 4 or 8 hrs

I don't mind this... then people you hand to harvest leather will have to hunt/explore areas - going farther out to glean areas or harvest more differnet monsters/ creatures - ie mudcrabs, deer

same goes for nodes - make them instance once every 4 hrs for each player
this allows everyone to glean items from each area -and having to stretch out to new areas once the other areas are clean


everyone will get plants/chests/ore/mobs this way
and the bots will still get theirs but they will have to change exploration methods

people will say this isn't fair -
what? - so you want to stand on a node and just harvest it - that would be exploiting a spawn rate

there is no exploring or looking for stuff(use S*** expletive there instead)

I can find lots of stuff just roaming about...look everywhere - and that's what the game is about


6 bring back most of the old trait system

like having to earn stamina thru swimning running jumping weight lifting
get rid of personal item slots and go back to weight system
this way you have bring back enchantments for carrying more weight
if you want to carry more you put effort to leveling up stamina or using enchantments to carry stuff (or finding armor that an enchantment to reduce weight carried

or lockpicking had to be learned over time - % failure if you are too low


in fact add more
like jewelry/gemstone appraisal/armor appraisal - so you get the best price -store owners are gonna try to get it for cheap (rip you off)

add magic lock chests - this would require a potion or enchantment to open only

the fact is you should have kept it close to the original elderscrolls games of the past


this system you have now is dumbed down for kids and console owners - not something I wanted to see

in fact its been going down that path from morrowind - dumbing down the trait system

I don't need fast action buttons(special button actions) - just level up the skills like morrowind and then the ability to survived is base on your ability to use a joystick (move duck avoid - use your brains) and not pushing a button

the fact you create this system and then the system is nerfed and some classes have broken functions - makes it worse


7 bugs and add ins I can wait on - just that the game looks half finished right now

In no way would this even make it as a single ES game the way it is right now

Ive played every Elderscrolls game so far and this one bums me out to the tenth degree

you want to lose people(even for good) - this is the way to do it

you're going the wrong direction - people want a complex gaming experience - not a childs console game

Right now Im looking to play watch dogs - because this game is terrible as it stands right now

I can't enjoy this game because bots and other players ruin experience

what joy is there when a boss is killed for you by others and you barely get to touch it


At least offer a single user campaign mode
you can offer both this way - and make dungeons harder in multiplayer
that get tougher as more people enter dungeon

that would kill the bots - because enough players enter and waited the mobs would eventually destroy the bots

bots are dumb

ThreeEyedCrow

Tarwin wrote: »

A re-launch would be devastating for ESO. FFXIV got away with it as people left before even getting past level 10. Then came back to a much improved experience. ESO has so many Vets, my guess is they would not re-sub

Exactly. I am VR12 and I fought through some of the worst progress delaying bugs. In fact I am willing to bet I had worse bugs at the start than any of you posting in this threat with the exception of Oxygen_boarder whom I know dealt with some of the same issues.

Relaunch at this point with amount of people at VR1+ and the time it took to get there would be an awful idea.

Like you said, I for one would not resub just to spend another 40 days grinding to get to VR12. No thanks.

I love playing now as a VR12. Fix the bugs and this game is good to go. Relaunch is about the worst idea I have seen on the forums.

Not sure what level you people calling for a relaunch are but I would be curious to know (I am willing to bet most of you calling for relaunch are not even VR1 thus you have not spend nearly as much time developing your toon so its far, far easier for you to just cry relaunch than it is for the thousands of us who already put time into getting high VR level).

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

Tarwin wrote: »

A re-launch would be devastating for ESO. FFXIV got away with it as people left before even getting past level 10. Then came back to a much improved experience. ESO has so many Vets, my guess is they would not re-sub

Exactly. I am VR12 and I fought through some of the worst progress delaying bugs. In fact I am willing to bet I had worse bugs at the start than any of you posting in this threat with the exception of Oxygen_boarder whom I know dealt with some of the same issues.

Relaunch at this point with amount of people at VR1+ and the time it took to get there would be an awful idea.

Like you said, I for one would not resub just to spend another 40 days grinding to get to VR12. No thanks.

I love playing now as a VR12. Fix the bugs and this game is good to go. Relaunch is about the worst idea I have seen on the forums.

Not sure what level you people calling for a relaunch are but I would be curious to know (I am willing to bet most of you calling for relaunch are not even VR1 thus you have not spend nearly as much time developing your toon so its far, far easier for you to just cry relaunch than it is for the thousands of us who already put time into getting high VR level).

Hahaha no more freezing to death? Yay

Laura

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I am not having any problems with this game. If there are adjustments to be made they will do it.
In my opinion, this poll is biased, based on your 'opinion', that the game is 'broken'.

my poll is biased? I am a vr 12 raider. I want the game to succeed that is all. I am more than satisfied but I know that if enough people aren't satisfied its going to die.

People talk about this all the time. In at least one of my guilds every day I see this topic get brought up.


if anything it was to prove a point that most people DON'T want that. I'm actually surprised at how many people do.

ThreeEyedCrow

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

It's really hard not to pin you as an apologist here, so I won't in fairness. However, the point isn't whether this game has bugs or not
( I think we all can agree all games have bugs but to a reasonable limit)...that was never the sole original discussion. The OP is discussing and with a poll how the game was not ready for launch yet over all, then add in all the other laundry list of issues(including bugs), and whether this is rises to the level that a relaunch would benefit this game. Arguing and debating solely over 'bugs' is in another post.

Relaunch would explicitly not benefit:
1. Anyone who put time into their character getting high VR levels (tens of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of people).
2. Any investors and shareholders in the company as relaunch would:
a) lose more subscriptions b) stall all the current subs which means no more money mad for company.

So the company would lose a huge amount of money short term and potentially long term and the most dedicated players who have been supporting the game since launch get screwed over completely losing the characters they put time into.

I don't see how relaunch benefits anyone.

Laura

double post please delete

Laura

Ohioastro wrote: »

There is no universe where a relaunch happens. This thread is the rough equivalent of arguing whether Spiderman could beat Superman - fun, I suppose, but not germane to the world we live in.

@Ohioastro‌

Please at least know a little bit about what you talk about before you post it will make you look a lot less stupid. Seriously - this is like saying grass doesn't exist.



http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/199021/Embattled_MMO_Final_Fantasy_XIV_relaunches.php

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/708645/apb-finds-a-home-mmo-relaunch-coming-in-early-2011/


I know there are more but I don't want to waste any more time. You find them.

ErykGrimm

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

 

In no way would this even make it as a single ES game the way it is right now

Ive played every Elderscrolls game so far develop is one bums me out to the tenth degree

I think you bought the wrong game. This is not Elder Scrolls 6 and it never claimed to be. In fact, Bethesda only helped with the marketing of ESO. Bethsoft did not develop the game at all. You failed to inform yourself before getting the game. Some lessons you only have to learn once (I hope).

ThreeEyedCrow

Laura wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

There is no universe where a relaunch happens. This thread is the rough equivalent of arguing whether Spiderman could beat Superman - fun, I suppose, but not germane to the world we live in.

@Ohio

Please at least know a little bit about what you talk about before you post it will make you look a lot less stupid. Seriously - this is like saying grass doesn't exist.

And as pointed out the situation was vastly different with FFIV.

One main issue with FFIV was for a week or two people like myself could not even log into the server. In first 3-4 weeks we were about level 10-15 with being able to log in maybe 1 or 2 days in that entire time.

Its totally different to relaunch when the majority of potential players couldn't even get into the game.

Even with that, the idea of relaunch made me not want to ever play FFIV.

Very different than when you have so many people at max level here. Even if I wanted to play FFIV again, getting to level 10-15, FFIV again is like a day or two at most depending on how much free time.

Drastically different than having a VR12 with gear wiped here in ESO that would take another month just to get back to this point.

Honestly a relaunch would come off to me like the biggest F--- You Zenimax could possibly do:
"Hey you supported us through a rough launch and made it to v12. Guess what? Now we are wiping your character that you spent so much time fighting to build...have fun releveling"

If you people honestly think most vr12s would be happy about that and joyfullly resub to have the chance to repeat leveling for so long, then I have some land to sell you....

Laura

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

There is no universe where a relaunch happens. This thread is the rough equivalent of arguing whether Spiderman could beat Superman - fun, I suppose, but not germane to the world we live in.

@Ohio

Please at least know a little bit about what you talk about before you post it will make you look a lot less stupid. Seriously - this is like saying grass doesn't exist.

And as pointed out the situation was vastly different with FFIV.

One main issue with FFIV was for a week or two people like myself could not even log into the server. In first 3-4 we were about level 10-15.

Its totally different to relaunch when the majority of potential couldn't even get into the game.

Even with that, the idea of relaunch made me not want to ever play FFIV.

Very different than when you have soo many people at max level. Even if I wanted to play FFIV again, getting to level 10-15 FFIV again is like a day or two at most depending on how much free time.

Drastically different than having a VR12 with gear wiped here in ESO.

Honestly a relaunch would come off to me like the biggest F--- You Zenimax could possibly do.

Hey you supported us through a rough launch and made it to v12. Guess what now we are wiping your character that you spend so much fighting to build...

Please try not to be so sensitive I was correcting an error. This person says relaunches do not exist while they do.

I didn't say if it was needed warranted or even if I wanted it.

MaxBat

@ at OP:

I don't know if a relaunch is the answer - I mean, I'm losing money every day and I don't see Zeni writing any checks.

I don't hate the game - I actually like most of it. And I don't blame them for their design decisions (linear v. sandbox, less classes, button pusher ... the list goes on). Their game, their design.

But as I said in another post, I'm frankly frustrated that they make us shell out so much money and can't deliver a reasonable product. And I'm getting frustrated with video game companies releasing crap and then going public to apologize - as if their words make up for our loss of money (Creative Assembly, are you reading this?) But I really getting frustrated with people telling me I'm overreacting, that I should expect to have to pay for a game with this level of disfunctionality. They usually say, "Did you play game X? It was worse ..."

No, I didn't play game X. I didn't buy it. Mostly because it sucked.

This game sold for $59.99 (or more) with no demo and a huge Elder Scrolls fan base. At this point, Zeni's made some real money and, from a financial perspective, I'm sure the game's a success. Someone at Zeni has a new boat and a really nice retirement plan. Good for them.

Which begs the question: would a relaunch help? Can they even solve the problems they have? Are they even motivated to so now that they already have a huge pool of our money?

Meh. That horse, so to speak, has left the barn.

GreySix

The speed-levelers would be irritated, but I say what the heck - kill it and start from scratch.

Ohioastro

Laura wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

There is no universe where a relaunch happens. This thread is the rough equivalent of arguing whether Spiderman could beat Superman - fun, I suppose, but not germane to the world we live in.

@Ohioastro‌

Please at least know a little bit about what you talk about before you post it will make you look a lot less stupid. Seriously - this is like saying grass doesn't exist.



http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/199021/Embattled_MMO_Final_Fantasy_XIV_relaunches.php

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/708645/apb-finds-a-home-mmo-relaunch-coming-in-early-2011/


I know there are more but I don't want to waste any more time. You find them.

In order to justify a relaunch you have to justify wiping out every character and every achievement that every played has had since launch. You will likely need to take a massive financial hit (in refunds and compensation). By comparison, the alternative (even if you think that the game has serious flaws) is the usual business of patches and tweaks.

You relaunch if there is some utter catastrophe. The issues that ESO has don't even come remotely close to that. So I didn't say that games never do this; I did say that there is just no way that this game is going to do it. Period. I'd bet a large, large sum of cash money on that.

darthbelanb14_ESO

I don't think ESO suffered near the problems FFXIV did at it's launch. Most things I would consider minor, and certainly not game breaking like the issues FF had. TBH, I really don't see why anyone would compare ESO with that fiasco.