Buff Maelstrom 1-hander please

zerosingularity · April 2016

Now that we have a PTS environment and a main patch coming up, this is the perfect time to evaluate this weapon. Currently it provides bonuses to damage from Low Slash usage, small stam return after usage (with full heavy) and some HP.

However it is underutilized, why?

Lets look at the available equip slots. 7 armors 3 jewelry 2 hands = 12 slots

Assuming you run a full 5 piece armor set, (reasonable) you are left with 7 remaining slots.

For these 7 slots, there are 3 possible main combinations:

5 pc and 2 monster
4 pc 2 monster 1 maelstrom
5 pc 1 monster 1 maelstrom

We can see that to use a Maelstrom 1-hander, we lose either another 5 pc bonus, or a monster set 2 pc bonus. This is the problem.

The Maelstrom 1-hander enchant is not comparable to a 5 pc or 2 pc monster set bonus in any way. The stamina return is a low % of a fully-charged heavy, ESPECIALLY on the PTS in 5 heavy armor. Therefore it is pointless to consider it atm.

Lets take a few 5pc and 2 pc bonus that you might use:

Hircine's Veneer - 10% more stam recovery for the raid
Ebon Armory - ~1.1k HP for the raid
Worm Raiment - 5% less magicka costs for the raid
Pariah - up to 10k AR/SR based on missing HP (starts at 3k at full HP)
Engine Guardian - 10% chance to get an HP/Mag/Stam bot restoring massive resources
Lord Warden - 50% chance to have ~4k resists in a zone for everyone. (Near 100% uptime)
Spawn of Mephala - ~1k DPS and snare from a fully charged heavy (easy 100% uptime if you do not need to perma-block)

Compare these to 780 HP, 300 Stam return from a fully-charged heavy AFTER a Low Slash, and an extra 1.2k damage per Low Slash, and you see it is not competitive enough to use over any other bonus. When someone gets this item they should think "OMG this is good, I should try making a Tank!" Like a stam user might feel after getting a Sharpened Inferno staff. Right now is like "Meh. Cool, but I probably won't use aside from flair."

Also, just get rid of the Maelstrom Shield entirely, having it as a set bonus is pointless. It's not special in any way. Or make it synergize with the 1-hander like 2x Maelstrom daggers/axes do. (As well as give lots of stats like a normal shield). Also, take a look at how many people have the Maelstrom 1-hander, how of them use it, and how many of them use it competitively. Bet the numbers for the last bit are quite a bit lower than would be desirable.

Basically, I want is this item to be competitive, so I WANT to consider using this when I am being super serious tanking. What does the community think?

Jsmalls · April 2016

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Joy_Division · April 2016

zerosingularity wrote: »

Also, just get rid of the Maelstrom Shield entirely, having it as a set bonus is pointless. It's not special in any way. Or make it synergize with the 1-hander like 2x Maelstrom daggers/axes do. (As well as give lots of stats like a normal shield).

Basically, I want is this item to be competitive, so I WANT to consider using this when I am being super serious tanking. What does the community think?

Astute overall analysis and this suggestion ought to be heeded.

dagonbeer · April 2016

Agreed. I don't know anyone who uses the maelstrom sword. Why require tanks to full heavy attack to get bonus, when maelstrom staves affect both light and heavy attacks? Other abilities requiring full heavy attacks are fairly powerful (molten arm. 40% buff, mephala's.) The maelstrom sword's enchantment is pretty laughable in comparison.

suggestion: have the bonus affect light attacks as well (reduce damage bonus if need be, although it wouldn't be overly powerful even if it remained the same.) If you're not giving the shield a useful bonus, at least make the sword part of the permafrost set too.

CyrusArya · April 2016

It's even worse than than you say. If it added damage to low slash, the sword would be amazing. Unfortunately, it actually buffs the damage of the heavy attack after low slash. Tricky wording. This weapon is absolute garbage and truly a disappointment to receive.

mrdavis1118ub17_ESO · April 2016

I personally would actually like to see it buff something such as bash damage and not tie it to one particular skill on your skill bar.

zerosingularity · April 2016

The Master/Maelstrom items will always be tied to a skill, that's the point of them. All of them may need a buff now that regular enchants are buffed, but this one in particular is wildly underutilized.

Gottbeard · April 2016

I wish the maelstrom sword came with a maelstrom Shield 2 piece. It would complete the 1.5 stat boost every other maelstrom weapon gets.

I also wish they would replace that Stam return on heavy atks with something useful and more accessible. Maybe 50 percent bash cost reduction for the next bash after you heroic slash. 100 percent if you run the sword and the shield.

zerosingularity · May 2016

Just bumping this thread because the weapon still needs work.

A possible change would be to remove the stamina return and make it so the next light attack after a low slash done within 4 seconds counts as a fully charged heavy attack.

This would provide superior resource return in the new patch, and make it a good option compared to another 5 pc or 2pc monster set. Or would it be too broken?

Erraln · May 2016

Signed, currently the only thing I can imagine doing with this weapon is using as part of a pure + HP build. Even with that idea, it's not clearly better than Ebon weapons.

dagonbeer · May 2016

Really hope this gets looked into. Between the master's and maelstrom weapon unique abilities this one is definitely the worst. I would be really surprised if anyone actually uses it over a set item.

I know I dread seeing two purples from the chest or two items from the mail...

code65536 · May 2016

My previous tanking setup was:

2x Blood Spawn
5x Tava
2x Endurance (rings)
2x Agility (neck+shield)
1x Maelstrom/Master sword

The 2p Agility/Endurance stam/health bonuses are nice, as they are 50% more potent than the typical item set bonus. The 3p Agility bonus of Weapon Damage is useless for a tank, so it was either 3p Endurance or 2p Endurance + Master/Maelstrom swords, and I preferred the max-health slot bonus over stamina regen that would usually be zeroed out when I need it most.

The Maelstrom sword's active bonus is almost useless for me--I equip it only for the passive health bonus. On the bar that has my Pierce Armor, I use the Master Sword because it actually has a useful enchant and because its passive health bonus was only about 30 less than that of the Maelstrom sword.

But, as I said, this was my previous setup. I finally got my hands on a full set of Ebon jewelry, so now I run 2x BS, 5x Tava, and 5x Ebon. I no longer use the Maelstrom/Master swords, and I don't miss them.

What would make me consider going back to the Maelstrom sword? I don't know if that's possible--I don't want to give up either Ebon, Tava, or BS. Maybe if the active bonus granted me something much more useful, like Major Evasion?

zerosingularity · May 2016

Upon further study, there is even less of a reason to use this item now that weapon enchantments are getting a buff.

The go to enchantments would likely be crushing or magic damage/restore stamina, both of which output more damage than this item, and one of them provides superior resources.

This item needs serious work.

Attackopsn · May 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

I was just coming here to say the same thing, even before it was occasionally iffy, now it is absolutely imperative that VMA weapons are increased so that they remain competitive with non VMA weapons.

code65536 · May 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

Vangy · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

^This. If anything I always thought maelstrom weapons were a bit too powerful. My stam DK DPS would be like 10k lower if not for his maelstrom daggers (Even with 1 in the wrong trait)... Just artificially widens the power gap between good players and average players. Not that its a bad thing, but the power gap for maelstrom weapons can be absurd.. Especially on DKS.

Shader_Shibes · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

^This. If anything I always thought maelstrom weapons were a bit too powerful. My stam DK DPS would be like 10k lower if not for his maelstrom daggers (Even with 1 in the wrong trait)... Just artificially widens the power gap between good players and average players. Not that its a bad thing, but the power gap for maelstrom weapons can be absurd.. Especially on DKS.

And they are even more op what with the channel time more than halved

NTclaymore · May 2016

This talk about maelstorm 1hander means you lose a 5piece set-effect? thats true. But its allso true for everyone running 2h. Can we please just make 2h weapons count as 2 pieces of a set-effect? my DPS has to run dualwield when i really wanna run greatsword..

Kas · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

and the resto staff

zerosingularity wrote: »

Upon further study, there is even less of a reason to use this item now that weapon enchantments are getting a buff.

The go to enchantments would likely be crushing or magic damage/restore stamina, both of which output more damage than this item, and one of them provides superior resources.

This item needs serious work.

msa weapons don't lose the passive bonus when poisons are applied. thus you'll now only use them if you really like the acive skill effect (i guess dw on pve dk's and destro on pve builds and a few select pvp builds come to mind) or if you want to use a poison on your main weapon

boundsy88 · May 2016

the fact that there is more value using a leki sword and shield 2 piece over the maelstrom sword and shield means that it really needs buffing.

potirondb16_ESO · May 2016

Actually it would be nice if the weapon bonus can be a one piece and the weapon ability bonus the enchant. I think it would give way more attractivity to those weapon in the long run because you can also reenchant them if the skill bonus doesn't fit your need and still keep the stats bonus which you may like.

mrdavis1118ub17_ESO · May 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

^This. If anything I always thought maelstrom weapons were a bit too powerful. My stam DK DPS would be like 10k lower if not for his maelstrom daggers (Even with 1 in the wrong trait)... Just artificially widens the power gap between good players and average players. Not that its a bad thing, but the power gap for maelstrom weapons can be absurd.. Especially on DKS.

And they are even more op what with the channel time more than halved

One thing to note, is the dual wield flurry proc no longer works with ANY channel ability. Not flurry, soul assault, channeled heavy attack, or radiant destruction. Tested on PTS.

zerosingularity · May 2016

mrdavis1118ub17_ESO wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

^This. If anything I always thought maelstrom weapons were a bit too powerful. My stam DK DPS would be like 10k lower if not for his maelstrom daggers (Even with 1 in the wrong trait)... Just artificially widens the power gap between good players and average players. Not that its a bad thing, but the power gap for maelstrom weapons can be absurd.. Especially on DKS.

And they are even more op what with the channel time more than halved

One thing to note, is the dual wield flurry proc no longer works with ANY channel ability. Not flurry, soul assault, channeled heavy attack, or radiant destruction. Tested on PTS.

Off topic, and it still buffs Soul Assault (just tested on PTS). It never buffed Flurry itself because they patched that out ASAP.

I am hoping this PTS we get some word about buffing this weapon, because it just is not worth it.

I wonder how things would work if they were Master/Maelstrom ENCHANTS? Then the items could be of any style we want, any weapon we want, any set we want, and would really only have to be balanced vs other enchantments. Also would require less RNG.

Agency79 · May 2016

Signed for buffing these

Shader_Shibes · May 2016

mrdavis1118ub17_ESO wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

Um, the Maelstrom 189 damage enchant is passive and always active. Normal weapon enchants have 10s cooldowns. With the exception of the lackluster tank weapons, Maelstrom weapons remain best-in-slot.

^This. If anything I always thought maelstrom weapons were a bit too powerful. My stam DK DPS would be like 10k lower if not for his maelstrom daggers (Even with 1 in the wrong trait)... Just artificially widens the power gap between good players and average players. Not that its a bad thing, but the power gap for maelstrom weapons can be absurd.. Especially on DKS.

And they are even more op what with the channel time more than halved

One thing to note, is the dual wield flurry proc no longer works with ANY channel ability. Not flurry, soul assault, channeled heavy attack, or radiant destruction. Tested on PTS.

It still procs soul assault. Alcast recently posted another video regarding what and what doesnt benefit from the proc.

kadar · May 2016

Yup, a Defending Maelstrom Mace just dropped out of the Final Boss chest for me yesterday. I was like OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH....mmmm.....Meh.

Also it was paired with the MAELSTROM SHIELD....of the Glorious Defender? WTF?

Change the Mael shield to be exactly that... A Maelstrom Shield! Currently it is a heart-breaking lie.
/Bump

Dyride · May 2016

Maelstrom Shield should either have a double Infused effect (x40% more on enchant) or do something like 4% Block Cost reduction or Minor Evasion while blocking.

ManDraKE · May 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I think all Maelstrom weapons need to be revaluated with the new buffs to weapon enchants.

348 weapon damage enchant beats > 198 stat increase.

In DB malestorm weapons will be a side-grade compared to set weapons, right now there are plain upgrade that is locked behind a huge grindwall and RNG. I don't do PvE, and don't like it and shouldn't be forced to do it, but right now if i don't farm the *** of vMSA i'm in a disadvantage compared to people with maelstorm weapons, that is wrong.

Saturn · May 2016

The Maelstrom shield should honestly have it's own effect. Instead of just being a unique skin and a prismatic defense glyph. Giving it 5% block mitigation or something similar, would make it an item tanks would want to use.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

All of the feedback in this thread was already given before the maelstrom sword was released. Not much changed and nothing changed for the better.

zerosingularity · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

All of the feedback in this thread was already given before the maelstrom sword was released. Not much changed and nothing changed for the better.

I'm optimistic about changes, what can I say.

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