All 3 of the Templar ultimates are very very strong for group PVE, with different ones being useful depending on your role and the fight.

Empowering Sweep is a great ultimate if you're tanking group content. I always keep it on one bar when I'm tanking. The low ultimate cost means you can use it very frequently, and the damage mitigation (which you can keep up for a pretty large percentage of any fight thanks to the low ultimate cost) is hugely useful in boss fights - especially if you've got a lot of adds on you.

Both morphs of Nova are absolutely amazing for group content. Again, it's about the damage mitigation more than anything else (although the fairly high damage is good too). The cost of Nova is much higher than the cost of Empowering Sweep, so you can't use it nearly as often, but unlike Empowering Sweep, the damage mitigation of Nova works for everyone being attacked by affected enemies - it doesn't just work for you. There's a very good reason why in trials you always want a few Templars, and you want a good caller telling each one of the Templars when to drop a Nova.

For me Remembrance is the least-used of the Templar ultimates, but if you're the healer it's hugely useful for fights that are healing checks. Between the powerfull heal while channeling it and the damage mitigation, it should be more than up to the task while it's up, and it gives you a break from using your magicka on heals, so when the ultimate is done you should have plenty of magicka to continue healing your group through the damage of the phase.

Of course, if I'm going for pure damage output, I usually go with Shooting Star (and yes, I know Ice Comet actually does more damage, but when I'm using Shooting Star it's usually because there's a big group that I'm hitting with it, so it's nice to get a ton of ultimate back and be able to use it again quite quickly).

I also play tank in PUG dungeons on daily basis. I couldn't count how many times my Remembrance saved the group. Even if things go wrong and 2 ppl are down, if you manage to res them and then pop Remembrance, your group is in great shape again.

Alucardo wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

All 3 of the Templar ultimates are very very strong for group PVE, with different ones being useful depending on your role and the fight.

Empowering Sweep is a great ultimate if you're tanking group content. I always keep it on one bar when I'm tanking. The low ultimate cost means you can use it very frequently, and the damage mitigation (which you can keep up for a pretty large percentage of any fight thanks to the low ultimate cost) is hugely useful in boss fights - especially if you've got a lot of adds on you.

Both morphs of Nova are absolutely amazing for group content. Again, it's about the damage mitigation more than anything else (although the fairly high damage is good too). The cost of Nova is much higher than the cost of Empowering Sweep, so you can't use it nearly as often, but unlike Empowering Sweep, the damage mitigation of Nova works for everyone being attacked by affected enemies - it doesn't just work for you. There's a very good reason why in trials you always want a few Templars, and you want a good caller telling each one of the Templars when to drop a Nova.

For me Remembrance is the least-used of the Templar ultimates, but if you're the healer it's hugely useful for fights that are healing checks. Between the powerfull heal while channeling it and the damage mitigation, it should be more than up to the task while it's up, and it gives you a break from using your magicka on heals, so when the ultimate is done you should have plenty of magicka to continue healing your group through the damage of the phase.

Of course, if I'm going for pure damage output, I usually go with Shooting Star (and yes, I know Ice Comet actually does more damage, but when I'm using Shooting Star it's usually because there's a big group that I'm hitting with it, so it's nice to get a ton of ultimate back and be able to use it again quite quickly).

Yeah, ultimately (no pun intended) I'll be going for meteor/dawnbreaker. But they take quite a while to get, and I just want to enjoy some PVP before I start doing a megaton of PVE to obtain those ultimates, which means I need to rely on the lame ones I'm given by the Templar class.

Again, all 3 of the Templar ultimates are very very strong. Maybe not for PVP, but then maybe you should change the title of your thread to indicate that you only care about them in terms of PVP. The blanket statement "Templar Ultimates are Lame" is incredibly uninformed.

Alucardo wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

You are right in what you say. But then non class ultimates would be obsolete if every class had all their needs covered by class skills.

This is true, which is why I suggested earlier buffing things like sweep so it's just below that of Dawnbreaker. It'd make a good alternative, and then after you've grinded your 1,000 hours of zombies you can upgrade to the FG ultimate

One thing that wasn't mentined yet is that Sweep and it's ticks also benefit from Burning Light while Dawnbreaker doesn't. But I realize it doesn't change so much, of course.

Alucardo wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Awesome! Now this thread makes more sense.

You're right, there is a big difference between the PVE and PVP so it was right to update the title. It does seem like the PVE guys are pretty happy with their Ultimates, but like a lot of times, some skills just don't cut it in Cyrodiil sadly.

I have to say, though, I would think that Solar Prison would be pretty amazing to drop on a battle inside a keep when the inner gate is breached and the attackers are storming inside... In that relatively confined area, the 62% snare, combined with the 30% damage mitigation and the damage it actually causes should be a pretty big deal.

Thoughts from someone who has played Templar for a long while....

Radial Sweep: The Empowering Sweep morph works for being tanky in PvE on large pulls because of the damage reduction, so I use it when fighting large groups of mobs while solo adventuring. I just collect them and use Empowering Sweep, Blazing Shield, Puncturing Sweep. You can go all day like that because of the low ult cost with as many trash mobs as you want, the more enemies the better. I wouldn't use it in PvP. It also works if you're an actual tank in group play.

Crescent Sweep is meant to be a small burst+dot focusing on enemies in front of the player (33% more damage to enemies in front of the caster on the initial hit). It's more like a really strong AoE regular skill than an ultimate but that is probably tied to it being relatively cheap. Adding in something like a debuff to those caught in the +33% strike would be nice though and might make it better for PvP as an opening hit. Either major breach (significantly reduced spell resistance) since it does magicka damage or both minor breach+minor fracture (moderately reduced spell + physical resistance) would be nice. Just pop Cresent, hit your morph of Puncturing Strikes, and enjoy. Either that or up the damage on the initial hit to those standing in the frontal cone area of effect to 50%.

Nova: The base ability and both morphs are fine tooltip wise, and if you hit really hard with spell damage (high spell power/larger magicka pool) it can be very effective in PvE and PvP if any ally hits the synergy and stuns the enemies. Solar Prison is better if you are in a group and can count on that synergy, whereas the synergy for Solar Disturbance does a bit less damage and stuns for a shorter time. However, Disturbance snares enemies upon activation, which can make up for that a bit and is better for solo play. Both are good for the damage reduction to friendlies inside its radius. The main knock against Nova is the cost, which could use a slight reduction. But even with the current cost it's the best all-purpose ultimate for Templars.

Rite of Passage: I rarely see either morph of this ability used outside of PvE. Sometimes I and some healer Templars will use Remembrance in group PvE play for bosses that have high damage phases, while others use Practiced Incantation and its slightly longer channel time (an extra two seconds). I personally don't find the extra two seconds for Incantation a good trade for the damage reduction, but that's a matter of preference. Perhaps that morph could be altered to be the PvP-preferred version. For example, by extending the caster's immunity to crowd control effect to the allies being healed.

Jura23 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Thoughts from someone who has played Templar for a long while....

Rite of Passage: I rarely see either morph of this ability used outside of PvE. Sometimes I and some healer Templars will use Remembrance in group PvE play for bosses that have high damage phases, while others use Practiced Incantation and its slightly longer channel time (an extra two seconds). I personally don't find the extra two seconds for Incantation a good trade for the damage reduction, but that's a matter of preference. Perhaps that morph could be altered to be the PvP-preferred version. For example, by extending the caster's immunity to crowd control effect to the allies being healed.

I'n not a healer and I'm not magicka but I think it pretty much comes down to your spell dmg because 23% dmg reduction doesn't change, it's constant for Remembrance. But the amount of heals does change. Yep, 2 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it's in fact +50% in duration. So I would say if you have really high spell dmg you could go for PRacticed Incarnation.

Yeah, that's why I didn't suggest either was automatically superior. It depends on your build and how/when you plan to use the ultimate. I still think, though, Incantation would get more mileage if those players being healed also received the immunity to CC for the duration of the ability. An extra two seconds of healing plus no roots/snares would be very tempting in PvP.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think Nightblades have the most underwhelming ultimates at the moment, IMHO. When our PvP raid leader assigns roles for a new group, we hardly ever talk about Nightblade class ultimates.

Veil of blades saves the group from unavoidable aoe, like in hel ra and aetherian archive on the last boss.

Soul tether melts ads and heals you. In pvp, you can stun an entire zerg, giving you a chance to run, or pre-stun so your group can wipe them. You can also use it to bring nb out of stealth in some cases.

hmm, I don't think its anywhere as bad as many are making out. The amount of times my Rite of Passage has been the deciding factor between wiping to a much larger group going head to head in IC tunnels has earned it a permanent spot on my PVP rotation.

Though, I do suppose in those situations the players around you aren't going to be paying a huge amount of attention to what you're doing and which skill it is thats keeping them alive so long as they're staying alive.

I'd be open to some minor tweaking but dead against any major overhauls of the Templar's ulties given the amount of existing players that have built their characters around them, agree with a few other comments along the lines of if you don't like it go back to your other stam DPS builds and leave the healers alone....

eliisra wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

hmm, I don't think its anywhere as bad as many are making out. The amount of times my Rite of Passage has been the deciding factor between wiping to a much larger group going head to head in IC tunnels has earned it a permanent spot on my PVP rotation.

Though, I do suppose in those situations the players around you aren't going to be paying a huge amount of attention to what you're doing and which skill it is thats keeping them alive so long as they're staying alive.

I'd be open to some minor tweaking but dead against any major overhauls of the Templar's ulties given the amount of existing players that have built their characters around them, agree with a few other comments along the lines of if you don't like it go back to your other stam DPS builds and leave the healers alone....

You're talking from a pure heal/support perspective. Consider that not all templars wants to play in medium or big groups 100% of the time and mainly support others.

Let's say you're roaming in the IC tunnel alone this time, you run into a nasty skilled sorc or a good nightblade. Tell me which templar ulti will be useful in that situation lol? Rite of Passage only prolongs your life roughly 5 seconds. Sweep wont even tickle, if you manage to land it. The burst from Nova comes from an ally using the synergy. The actual DoT does very little dmg, while it's even easier to just step out of it.

You can drop Solar Disturbance with snare in the tunnel and run the other direction as fast as you can.

Meteor for single target nova for aoe
bonus points for being an altmer or dunmer