Reaper_5334 wrote: »I would love this, would really add to the "elder scrolls" part of the game.
No thanks. I remember how damned annoying it was
Thanks for adding your voices, @Reaper_5334, @BRogueNZ, and @DaveMoeDee. Good to get honest feedback, whether or not you like the idea By the way, because this thread has caught a little traction I've gone back and updated the starting post with mechanics I hadn't originally mentioned in order to keep things brief, and I've clarified them/expanded on them. I don't expect that to change the minds of everyone who is against the idea of bringing in named diseases, but it does show the underpinning/guts of the idea in actual working terms and why I think these diseases can be imported into a game like ESO.DaveMoeDee wrote: »Do not want.
I had considered something like this too for that contagion skill I previously linked, but I used it instead for my anti-zerging idea. But I am not sure how popular such vectors would be. In any case, you are right, there are lots of ways to play with the basic mechanics.TheShadowScout wrote: »The area of effect diseases would be stuff like "don't go into that cloud, you'll catch something", or as mentioned, action-reaction dependent (don't go jumping in the water fully clothed in eastmarch, you'll catch something if you run around with wet clothes in the cold). Could even be interaction dependent... The point is, diseases should have more contagion vectors then "rat bite", some avoidable, some... less so.
Yeah, @TheShadowScout I notice that they added a chance for an AoE damage effect called unconsecrated ground to proc when a zombie dies to make them more interesting. It's the same reasons I figured adding a disease chance to some mobs might make fights with them more than ***-hum.TheShadowScout wrote: »I'd love to fear certain types of mobs, not for their combat prowess, but for the low chance my poor characters might catch something... brings back memories of hating the mummies in D&D for the "mummy rot" chance (still better then the darn experience-stealing wraiths though, those were crossing a line!)
And I'd love to have diseases that may require finding some special ingredient for the cure somewhere instead of just paying the local cleric of popping a potion. As long as they are rare enough to make it an adventure, and not a daily chore...
Good idea but my concern is the gold drop off. For a lot of people this would merely be a nuiseance.
That is the challenge @BlackEar and @Slurg, to make disease matter but not make it super-annoying to most players (and I say "most" because let's face it, every single thing in the game annoys at least some players). I've talked more about those mechanics in the comments once the thread got more attention, but I am going to add have added some of it into the original post to make my ideas clearer to those new to the thread and hopefully to get feedback on those mechanics as well and not just on the basic idea of named diseases.I could see this being an interesting mechanic for solo PVE play.
But if you're doing a pledge in a formal group or capturing resources in Cyrodiil (which you may have had to queue to get into), it would be an unreasonable burden to drop everything and head to a major city for a cure just because you happened to run by a wolf or a skeever on the way to your objective and you don't want to drag down your group with your disease.
Sure if there was a potion you could carry it would be less of a burden for you and your group. But it better be really easy to obtain, because if it's so hard to get it goes into the crown store as a 'convenience' item - you just got bit by a wolf, open crown store now to buy a potion or drag down your group! - that will leave a lot of people angry about the game creeping closer to and hovering at the edges of P2W.
Dull repetitive stuff is not fun. Ask that they add something interesting. If i want to deal with this lame stuff ill go back to skyrim.I support all of this.
ZOS would do well to start expanding gameplay, not just keep adding on content to the existing gameplay structure.
To those saying they don't want this because it would suck to deal with, your lack of imagination disturbs me.
The only reason a video game is fun is because there are challenges and solutions provided for them within the gameplay.
That is the core of what it is to be a video game.
The more reasonable challenges which players can control and manage, the better the gameplay (as long its done in a meaningful way).
Sometimes players rejecting ideas like this (or having to drink water) sound very ignorant. It is as if you would say "I don't want the mobs to have weapons" if that had been the standard that they don't, and you would be missing out what we have now, which is duel with mobs that also have weapons.
Adding things to the game that you don't want is precisely how to make the gameplay meaningful. You have things to avoid, actual reasons to perform certain actions to not get X event to happen, and actual incentives to think about the world and your preparedness in it.
This isn't a flipping arcade game. It's a real-time persistent world RPG, and its gameplay should expand and start modeling more realism.
In other words:
It's not very much fun to beat a boss when it only takes 1 hit.
It's not very much fun to gain 10 gold when you can easily gain 1 million a day.
It's not very much fun to fight in a diseased sewer when you can't have any actually risk to get a disease.
It's not very much fun to get a new sword when you get 200 new swords each play session.
It's not very much fun to find a treasure chest when you get 10 a day and already know only junk is inside it.
Fun comes from being able to deal with and react to real challenges within the game world.
Gaining 10 gold is fun when you are barely scraping by, and are trying to save up for a new item.
Killing a boss is fun when it takes you to your very limits, and you feel like there are reasonable ways to overcome it.
It's very, very fun to find the Master Sword, because there is only one of it, and it is the last sword you will ever need. And because you didn't find 20 swords already today, all of which were green vendor trash.
Finding treasure is fun when you don't expect it.
Exploring a ruined sewer with gross enemies is fun when you have to fear being there or spending too much time there, or need to think ahead about disease preparedness.
notimetocare wrote: »Dull repetitive stuff is not fun. Ask that they add something interesting. If i want to deal with this lame stuff ill go back to skyrim.I support all of this.
ZOS would do well to start expanding gameplay, not just keep adding on content to the existing gameplay structure.
To those saying they don't want this because it would suck to deal with, your lack of imagination disturbs me.
The only reason a video game is fun is because there are challenges and solutions provided for them within the gameplay.
That is the core of what it is to be a video game.
The more reasonable challenges which players can control and manage, the better the gameplay (as long its done in a meaningful way).
Sometimes players rejecting ideas like this (or having to drink water) sound very ignorant. It is as if you would say "I don't want the mobs to have weapons" if that had been the standard that they don't, and you would be missing out what we have now, which is duel with mobs that also have weapons.
Adding things to the game that you don't want is precisely how to make the gameplay meaningful. You have things to avoid, actual reasons to perform certain actions to not get X event to happen, and actual incentives to think about the world and your preparedness in it.
This isn't a flipping arcade game. It's a real-time persistent world RPG, and its gameplay should expand and start modeling more realism.
In other words:
It's not very much fun to beat a boss when it only takes 1 hit.
It's not very much fun to gain 10 gold when you can easily gain 1 million a day.
It's not very much fun to fight in a diseased sewer when you can't have any actually risk to get a disease.
It's not very much fun to get a new sword when you get 200 new swords each play session.
It's not very much fun to find a treasure chest when you get 10 a day and already know only junk is inside it.
Fun comes from being able to deal with and react to real challenges within the game world.
Gaining 10 gold is fun when you are barely scraping by, and are trying to save up for a new item.
Killing a boss is fun when it takes you to your very limits, and you feel like there are reasonable ways to overcome it.
It's very, very fun to find the Master Sword, because there is only one of it, and it is the last sword you will ever need. And because you didn't find 20 swords already today, all of which were green vendor trash.
Finding treasure is fun when you don't expect it.
Exploring a ruined sewer with gross enemies is fun when you have to fear being there or spending too much time there, or need to think ahead about disease preparedness.
MMORPG, this is not Skyrim.
I don't want it, but getting herpes makes life more interesting.
Long story short, Skyrim in that way. I think that is what you are looking for. You clearly don't understand MMORPG.
Mechanics are open for debate, though shrines/cure disease potions fit previous elder scrolls games pretty well (not just Skyrim). In any case, I've updated the original post with more details than originally offered about the proposed mechanics of named diseases and how the mechanics translate such diseases into ESO.notimetocare wrote: »No, never. This idea should die before it begins. If you want them to be short term rebuffs, cool. Require Skyrim mechanics to cure? He'll no
Oh, very nice. Say, might I interest you in the more detailed mechanics overview I added to the original post. For your convenience, let me just re-post that here...I think many of the annoyances could be addressed by adding potions of Cure Disease to the game and adding a way for players to make them in the alchemy skill line.
I would personally prefer a mechanic that saw a different cure for every disease. So if there are 10 diseases in game, there are 10 cures... but in the Elder Scrolls there is one catch-all potion.
tinythinker wrote: »Mechanics are open for debate, though shrines/cure disease potions fit previous elder scrolls games pretty well (not just Skyrim). In any case, I've updated the original post with more details than originally offered about the proposed mechanics of named diseases and how the mechanics translate such diseases into ESO.notimetocare wrote: »No, never. This idea should die before it begins. If you want them to be short term rebuffs, cool. Require Skyrim mechanics to cure? He'll no
I don't expect them to change the minds of people opposed to the basic concept of adding additional challenges to mobs in the form of lingering effects that require specific actions involving an investment of time or gold, but at least it gives the details of what they are objecting to. In any event, thank you for taking the time to express your opinion on the concept.
notimetocare wrote: »Dull repetitive stuff is not fun. Ask that they add something interesting. If i want to deal with this lame stuff ill go back to skyrim.I support all of this.
ZOS would do well to start expanding gameplay, not just keep adding on content to the existing gameplay structure.
To those saying they don't want this because it would suck to deal with, your lack of imagination disturbs me.
The only reason a video game is fun is because there are challenges and solutions provided for them within the gameplay.
That is the core of what it is to be a video game.
The more reasonable challenges which players can control and manage, the better the gameplay (as long its done in a meaningful way).
Sometimes players rejecting ideas like this (or having to drink water) sound very ignorant. It is as if you would say "I don't want the mobs to have weapons" if that had been the standard that they don't, and you would be missing out what we have now, which is duel with mobs that also have weapons.
Adding things to the game that you don't want is precisely how to make the gameplay meaningful. You have things to avoid, actual reasons to perform certain actions to not get X event to happen, and actual incentives to think about the world and your preparedness in it.
This isn't a flipping arcade game. It's a real-time persistent world RPG, and its gameplay should expand and start modeling more realism.
In other words:
It's not very much fun to beat a boss when it only takes 1 hit.
It's not very much fun to gain 10 gold when you can easily gain 1 million a day.
It's not very much fun to fight in a diseased sewer when you can't have any actually risk to get a disease.
It's not very much fun to get a new sword when you get 200 new swords each play session.
It's not very much fun to find a treasure chest when you get 10 a day and already know only junk is inside it.
Fun comes from being able to deal with and react to real challenges within the game world.
Gaining 10 gold is fun when you are barely scraping by, and are trying to save up for a new item.
Killing a boss is fun when it takes you to your very limits, and you feel like there are reasonable ways to overcome it.
It's very, very fun to find the Master Sword, because there is only one of it, and it is the last sword you will ever need. And because you didn't find 20 swords already today, all of which were green vendor trash.
Finding treasure is fun when you don't expect it.
Exploring a ruined sewer with gross enemies is fun when you have to fear being there or spending too much time there, or need to think ahead about disease preparedness.
MMORPG, this is not Skyrim.
I don't want it, but getting herpes makes life more interesting.
Long story short, Skyrim in that way. I think that is what you are looking for. You clearly don't understand MMORPG.
MMORPG doesn't stand for "has to keep the exact same crap every other game labeled MMORPG has, can't innovate and can't ever be a better game" FFS.
I mentioned "as long as it is implemented in a meaningful way". Have some imagination, man. You could look at every mechanic ESO currently has, and before conception say "oh it'll be dull and repetitive" (well, you'd mostly be right there, but the fact is we are now asking for things to be LESS dull).
Please don't bring Skyrim into this. Skyrim is a rubbish game. I wouldn't play Skyrim if it was the last game on earth.
The reason many of us are playing ESO is because it DOES NOT do everything like every other boring MMO. No, I don't "not understand" MMORPG. I don't like "MMORPG". I like multiplayer in an interesting world, and a game that is not afraid to break boundaries (ESO).
ESO should continue breaking the boundaries and giving us more complex gameplay.
Ironically you don't want this because you don't want "dull", but you are wanting to keep the game lacking complexity, i.e. dull. You want to keep beating down mobs over and over with no thought in your head.
notimetocare wrote: »The sweet spot between "challenge" and "annoying" is something you will never reach... This can only be a nuisance.
Thank you for your additional responses. I would like to sincerely ask, without eye-rolling or putting my tongue in my cheek, if I understand your objections correctly.notimetocare wrote: »I could love a more challenging game. Running to a shrine or downing a potion to cure a disease is not challenging. If you think it is, I will again refer you to Skyrim or perhaps Oblivion.
Excellent @Paazhahdrimaak . In that case I direct you to this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/142459/crafting-skooma-after-the-release-of-the-justice-systemPaazhahdrimaak wrote: »I want skooma, with a skooma addiction feature.
Good buffs while your on it. Negative when your not.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I love it, although I think Purge and Cleanse would classify as 'Cure' spells for sake of argument here. I love the idea of bringing in more to alchemy and more to disease complexity.
tinythinker wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »The sweet spot between "challenge" and "annoying" is something you will never reach... This can only be a nuisance.Thank you for your additional responses. I would like to sincerely ask, without eye-rolling or putting my tongue in my cheek, if I understand your objections correctly.notimetocare wrote: »I could love a more challenging game. Running to a shrine or downing a potion to cure a disease is not challenging. If you think it is, I will again refer you to Skyrim or perhaps Oblivion.
You don't want the convenience of a shrine or potion because it isn't a sufficient challenge, but there is nothing else that can be added that isn't a nuisance. And even if there was, there is no point trying because the concept in question is related to a degree of immersion that has no place in an MMO.
Is that right?
I am not saying you are wrong (or that you are right), I just want to verify the message I am getting. And I am sincere in my appreciation of criticisms and objections. They inspire me to think of things I might never have come up with otherwise. I like knowing just what it is that isn't supposed to be possible or realistic when I start exploring ways to make that very thing work. I may not succeed but the attempt is just so fun!
I've already got some new thoughts to build on from the basic mechanics I've laid out based on the feedback I've received thus far, so I will be working on them as I get the chance.
notimetocare wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I love it, although I think Purge and Cleanse would classify as 'Cure' spells for sake of argument here. I love the idea of bringing in more to alchemy and more to disease complexity.
Non-templars and non-PVPers would be unfairly punished unless you have something like a potion, which then you just add something that is a fly in the eye for some and a money dump for others. Not a good goal.
Why do u think Vampires can't be werewolves and vice versa? because they are immune to the disease which bestows the curse of the other and if they are immune to them they should be immune to all diseases (Vampires drink blood, if they were effected by disease they wouldn't last for very long considering what they drink), that can be the buff for werewolves and vampires especially to even it up as the last thing they need is another weakness which would make absolutely no sense as they both have been immune to disease in very single ES game so making them able to catch disease would be both unlorefriendly and immersion breaking.tinythinker wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Vampire's and Werewolves must also be resistant.
Or perhaps have different reactions (some less severe, or more severe) to some of the diseases?
Yeah, that was raised and acknowledged earlier in the thread, but thank you for your comment and interest.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Why do u think Vampires can't be werewolves and vice versa? because they are immune to the disease which bestows the curse of the other and if they are immune to them they should be immune to all diseases (Vampires drink blood, if they were effected by disease they wouldn't last for very long considering what they drink), that can be the buff for werewolves and vampires especially to even it up as the last thing they need is another weakness which would make absolutely no sense as they both have been immune to disease in very single ES game so making them able to catch disease would be both unlorefriendly and immersion breaking.tinythinker wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Vampire's and Werewolves must also be resistant.
Or perhaps have different reactions (some less severe, or more severe) to some of the diseases?
nimander99 wrote: »Yeah, cause Rockjoint was my favorite thing about Morrowind... I just loved it when I had to port to Vivec or Balmora and get cured because of a fight I had with a Cliffracer... this is truly missing from ESO and I hope it gets added... not
Joking aside, anything that makes this game more like the other's is a plus.
No porting unless you let it go for hours...nimander99 wrote: »Yeah, cause Rockjoint was my favorite thing about Morrowind... I just loved it when I had to port to Vivec or Balmora and get cured because of a fight I had with a Cliffracer... this is truly missing from ESO and I hope it gets added... not
Joking aside, anything that makes this game more like the other's is a plus.