The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
why are siege engines doing half damage (or worse) relative to 1.5 ???
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Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players
one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry
Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".
IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.
I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.
Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.
It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.
Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.
We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.
Thats very inconsiderate of you and against the interests of PvP lead designer's vision.
That's why they have their own server.
We had to learn the hard way, the unforgiving way; the way an MMORPG is supposed to be at end-game level.
Methinks FENGRUSH's stylings are lost on some of you. You're responding waaaaaay too seriously.
He's quite good at sarcasm. The problem is that many of us have trouble finding humor in this along with all the other problems that PvP has had for so long.
If there isn't the punchline of a joke somewhere, I'm not sure what else is.
This game -- criminy.Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on March 17, 2015 3:47PMAgrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you dont find any of this funny, you havent been dealing with it long enough.2 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you dont find any of this funny, you havent been dealing with it long enough.
When your two options are a) laugh or b) cry, it's not a surprise many choose the former.Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!0 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat LeadUpdate: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.Edited by ZOS_BrianWheeler on March 17, 2015 6:02PMWheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead21 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
That is all.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.7 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
So am I misunderstanding you to where there have been adjustments beyond just a flat adjustment across the board? For instance; you say Trebs are greater than ballistas, but as far as taking a wall down, ballistas are favored. Reading the origional description of intentions, it sounds like Trebs were meant to be wall damagers and ballistas were anti-siege.
EDIT: To go further, you say that catapults and ballistas are not killing machines, but aren't catapults supposed to the the anti infantry? I'm assuming you just mean strictly in damage.Edited by technohic on March 17, 2015 6:02PM0 -
Weberda✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
Many thanks for hearing us out and trying to rectify the matter. Like I said we're not looking to one-shot anyone but if you're out in the open firing siege at a wall you should be vulnerable to considerable damage yourself. And players should definitely be afraid of oil especially on ledges above breaches.
Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)2 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
Great to hear, thanks for this update!1 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
For what it's worth: you have my heart-felt thank you. Thank you!ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.1 -
Weberda✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
We only use stone trebs against keep inners. The suggestion here is that it was designed as anti-personnel. Hmm.
Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)1 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat LeadAs originally intended, Trebs were the primary means to take down walls and ballista were intended as Anti-Siege weapons due to their fast (relatively speaking of course) reload and more accurate firing. We are aware of the tactic currently favoring Ballista over Trebs for taking down keep pieces as their DPS is higher, however they have 1/2 the hitpoints of Trebs. That being said, all trebs have gotten their damage vs. Keeps increased as well in this coming update with Stone being the most effective, followed by fire then ice.Wheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead13 -
Weberda✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »As originally intended, Trebs were the primary means to take down walls and ballista were intended as Anti-Siege weapons due to their fast (relatively speaking of course) reload and more accurate firing. We are aware of the tactic currently favoring Ballista over Trebs for taking down keep pieces as their DPS is higher, however they have 1/2 the hitpoints of Trebs. That being said, all trebs have gotten their damage vs. Keeps increased as well in this coming update with Stone being the most effective, followed by fire then ice.
Well then, you haven't just improved damage output but you may also changing sop's for assaulting a keep. Thank you much.
Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)2 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uuuhh.. completely wrong thread. How did that happen?
Disregard this post, please..Edited by Keron on March 17, 2015 6:40PM0 -
NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
"it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor3 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
This may be the most beautiful post I've ever read by a dev.Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!4 -
Xendyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
YAY!! TYTY! *does a dance then bows and cheers*Lag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history
PC/NA1 -
Xupacabra✭✭✭Thanks for the work and time spent on the issueEdited by Xupacabra on March 17, 2015 7:52PMChupacabra with rage @ EU server AD faction Thornblade home2 -
PF1901✭✭✭
I just started to cry a little bit I'm so happy.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
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DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just burst out crying at work ppl think a family memebr died. If a family member died I would be in too much shock to care... unless it was my wife. I want to thank you thank you thank you. To the Red Zerg of bats and impulse spammers.... hhhhhaaaaaaaa hhhahhahaaaaaaSorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Morvul✭✭✭✭✭This sounds awesome!
Just one worry: did you increase wall hitpoints, to compensate for increased siege damage?
(Asuming stone trebs now will take down walls faster then ballistae on live)0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, 17k seems a bit high, I thought the max should be around 10k.
Nevertheless, this will make trebs far more useful for both siege and antipersonnel.1 -
Weberda✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
This may be the most beautiful post I've ever read by a dev.
I can't recall ever seeing such a reaction to a post by anybody especially regarding anything PvP. In less than 30 minutes @Brian_Wheeler gets like a zillion awesomes, the gratitude on an entire section of the playerbase, and not a single negative or dissenting comment in response.
Seriously I think it's indicative of not just how serious the siege problem is but also how starved many players are for facts, explanations, and viewpoints from the Devs. This indeed was a "beautiful post".
"Wheeler for Pres"Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)1 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat Lead@Morvul The Siege weapons have their own damage vs. walls so they did not get a change in their health. This is why you may see, if you have SCT mods, that Siege does one damage number vs. players and a different damage number vs. walls.Wheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead2 -
Morvul✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »@Morvul The Siege weapons have their own damage vs. walls so they did not get a change in their health. This is why you may see, if you have SCT mods, that Siege does one damage number vs. players and a different damage number vs. walls.
perfect!1 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Update: We have increased the damage of siege on our internal servers and putting it through testing now. And it's not just another 10%...it's back to their original design and intent of hard hitting damage and making you want to get away from the red circles. Remember that Ballista and Catapults are not intended as "killing machines" as much as Trebs, so the hierarchy of damage from most to least: Trebuchet, Ballista, Catapult. Flaming oil is still the best means of fighting off a Ram crew, but a single oil will not eliminate an entire group of Ram operators as they were originally intended as well.
As an example, the Stone Treb (the hardest hitting siege weapon from a single blow not including post DoTs) will hit players for around 17k. Not a one shot, but it will hurt.
And in case anyone asks, mercenaries and camps still are not coming back anytime soon.
Nice. This is what I wanted to hear. Thank you. I hope it translates to live as well as you have described.
Some of the most fun Ive had in pvp in eso, was back when siege was serious damage, and to be feared. I am looking forward to playing in this environment again.
Edited by c0rp on March 18, 2015 1:49PMForce weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@ZOS_BrianWheeler great job
Hopefully this will be the start of us hearing about more small trial changes like this? Let us know if you want people to check it on PTS before release. @Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat LeadThis will be skipping PTS and going straight to live as an incremental patch coming next week (hopefully). With that being said, I figure getting some feedback on direct number changes here is good. Some other changes are in the works too from the combat\gameplay team regarding XP, battl
Remember that these changes in damage are vs. players except for the Trebuchet extra damage noted vs. keeps. Also take note that the goals of each weapon type dictate their damage so while the catapult damage looks low, it's meant to be low in comparison to a Treb.
Lastly the changes to the Treb damage, as some of you have noted, will change keep assault preferences to some degree as well as the Flaming Oil changes. The DPS of an Ice treb however is still lower than a standard ballista bolt since you know...it's a ball of ice and not a rock or a flaming rock, or a steel tipped 100 lb bolt...
We've bounced these numbers around a few times internally and have them currently set up and feeling pretty good in our tests:
Flaming Oil: 9000 DoT <-- This was a bit higher at first, but in the most common situation where several pots are being used and once, we toned this down a bit.
Meatbag: 4260 (health debuff stays the same)
Oilpot: 4260 (snare stayed the same)
Scattershot: 4260
Standard Ballista : 6390
Lightning Ballista : 6390 + DoT vs players
Fire Ballista : 8520 + DoT vs players
Stone Treb : 17040 vs players, 4000 vs. keep walls
Fire Treb : 12780 +DoT vs players, 3500 vs. keep walls
Ice Treb : 10650 + Snare vs players, 3000 vs. keep wallsWheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead20
