Why Not Show Last Winning Bid on Guild Traders?

Giraffon

Why not show the last winning bid on the guild trader bid screen? If I could see that the last week's winning bid was 5 million gold, it would sure help a lot. What if to me it looks like a 100K gold trader so I'm bidding 100K week 1, then 125K the next...do you know how freakin' long that's gonna take me to get a clue? I mean we are flying blind out there! Show us the last winning bid!

AlnilamE

And then prices would eternally go up.

Giraffon

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

AlnilamE

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

Most of my guild can see how much the bid is if they care to check, tbh.

Giraffon

Any other auction that I know of shows the winning bid after the fact. Why aren't we doing that here?

This is for the rest of us so we can see where we might be able to compete and where we are priced out.

idk

Showing the winning bid would not serve any purpose other than to drive kiosk prices up.

Your comparing blind bids and are one and done to something that repeats itself every week. That's apples to oranges. Doesn't compare properly.

Giraffon

Let economics take over. I suspect it would be a mix where the highest bid guild traders would actually go down some and the little hidden value traders might actually go up in cost as other potential bidders realize they may be able to compete.

It's not like I'm screaming for an auction house. Let's just play fair and get rid of the fog that's floating around.

alexkdd99

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

No the price would definitely go up. How is it not fair? The other guilds can't see what anyone is bidding either. It's not like you are the only one unable to see the winning bid.

It is invisible for everyone. If you knew what the winning bid was then you could just come in and win it for 10k more the following week. Everyone is on equal ground, nobody knows what won the bid that they lost. Unless they were doing some spying.

And honestly I don't care what my guild bids or if it doesn't match up with what they say they bid so long as they always win the bid. If they started losing then I might be concerned.

Giraffon

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

No the price would definitely go up. How is it not fair? The other guilds can't see what anyone is bidding either. It's not like you are the only one unable to see the winning bid.

It is invisible for everyone. If you knew what the winning bid was then you could just come in and win it for 10k more the following week. Everyone is on equal ground, nobody knows what won the bid that they lost. Unless they were doing some spying.

And honestly I don't care what my guild bids or if it doesn't match up with what they say they bid so long as they always win the bid. If they started losing then I might be concerned.

That's exactly the point! The next week, the bids will be higher. So yeah, everyone is going to bid over last weeks bid. But by how much? Eventually everyone will hit a break point where it's not worth it to them and then go somewhere else. That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I want everyone to be able to assess the general price range of a guild trader without wasting that week's bid on something that they have no chance of getting at all.

LadyLavina

Giraffon wrote: »

Why not show the last winning bid on the guild trader bid screen? If I could see that the last week's winning bid was 5 million gold, it would sure help a lot. What if to me it looks like a 100K gold trader so I'm bidding 100K week 1, then 125K the next...do you know how freakin' long that's gonna take me to get a clue? I mean we are flying blind out there! Show us the last winning bid!

While this would be nice, it would result in a lot of cases of...how do i say this

........"f*** you because f*** you."

There would be a lot of obnoxious out-bidding just to be an ass. Like that one guild that had Old Men or something similar in the name that took the rawl trader next to ETU and listed nothing for the entire week. Obviously that was pretty expensive and doesn't happen often in Rawl, but I forsee guilds getting crappy w/ each other and pulling that nonsense all the time if this feature was implemented.

Idk maybe I'm crazy. Reply and yell at me by all means if that's the stupidest thing you've ever read.

phillyproduct

The trading system is terrible period.

We need a kiosk in every major city that lets us sell wares, convenience over everything

Pwnyridah

This a bad idea. Will definitely force guilds to continuously bid higher or lose their bid. Just keep placing your bids until you get the merchant. Or go the other route, place a much higher bid and go down after that.

code65536

Giraffon wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

No the price would definitely go up. How is it not fair? The other guilds can't see what anyone is bidding either. It's not like you are the only one unable to see the winning bid.

It is invisible for everyone. If you knew what the winning bid was then you could just come in and win it for 10k more the following week. Everyone is on equal ground, nobody knows what won the bid that they lost. Unless they were doing some spying.

And honestly I don't care what my guild bids or if it doesn't match up with what they say they bid so long as they always win the bid. If they started losing then I might be concerned.

That's exactly the point! The next week, the bids will be higher. So yeah, everyone is going to bid over last weeks bid. But by how much? Eventually everyone will hit a break point where it's not worth it to them and then go somewhere else. That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I want everyone to be able to assess the general price range of a guild trader without wasting that week's bid on something that they have no chance of getting at all.

The end result is that we'll end up at a steady state that is higher than what it is now. And much more stressful. And far more chaotic. It's an absolutely terrible idea through and through.

1. First, transparency works only if parties have time to react. There is no reaction until the next week. If the bidding system is to be blind, then it should commit to being truly blind. You are lifting the veil on a blind bid without giving people the necessary means to respond to it.
2. Your argument also assumes that everyone is bidding for the same reason--that they are seeking to hold one particular spot week to week. It's fine for two guilds vying for the same spot and both guilds are looking at what they can afford week-to-week. There are guilds that jump around places week to week. And there are troll guilds and joke guilds with nothing for sale that just jump in for a week for fun. If you can see what the "steady state" bid is for a spot, what's to stop you from adding 1K to that bid the next week if you just want to mess with someone? And as the person holding that spot, you'll always live with the knowledge that someone could beat you by just 1K at any given time.

If you want to argue for a transparent system, fine, whatever, but it must be fully transparent where all bids are open and where you get an instant notification that you've been outbid so that you can react. A Frankensteined system of the worst of both worlds like that you propose will be nothing but disastrous.

Giraffon

So far the only argument I'm hearing is basically fear of what MIGHT happen. Your speculation is as good as mine. I say it would be a wonderful improvement!

The only downside so far is that some established guild traders might get knocked off their perch. I don't see any problems here. What I propose is a super fair system for everyone.

I suggest that a list of every guild trader be made available to every player. The list would contain the location of the trader, what guild has hired the trader for the current week, and the most recent winning bid.

I think this would be the most fantastic improvement to the system that could ever be made!

redspecter23

If you know the winning bids of all 5 traders in an area, the lowest winning bid gets targetted, eventually pushing the low end up forcing all the prices closer which pushes the high end up for safety. Prices would leap up within a few weeks and guilds that are actually getting good prices on their traders will be out of luck fast.

ArchMikem

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

How is a "true value" even established though? The first person makes up a number and that becomes it's true value?

You think a Trader is worth 100k. Well I think it's worth 50k. Who's to really say which is true?

redspecter23

ArchMikem wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

How is a "true value" even established though? The first person makes up a number and that becomes it's true value?

You think a Trader is worth 100k. Well I think it's worth 50k. Who's to really say which is true?

If you're both bidding on the same trader, 100k wins so it's true. That trader right next door might only be 35k or completely unbid though and that one on the other side might have gone for over 500k.

Merlin13KAGL

#1: This doesn't guarantee that the bid will be remotely the same the following week
#2; You can deduce the amount by

• Taking the losing bid amount
• Making that number bigger the next time

Giraffon

The value of something (anything really) is what someone is willing to pay for it regardless of what motivates them. So for guild traders, it could be any one of the reasons previously mentioned that might cause the price of a trader to go up. So what? That's economics. This blind bidding stuff is all well and good, but the previous winning bid should be displayed to allow market forces to have an effect. That is the fairest way to do it.

From a coding standpoint, implementation should be easy. I just don't understand why it hasn't been there since the beginning.

Tan9oSuccka

The whole system is pretty shady and broken. Most GM's groan and complain about everything.

My only hope is a centralized auction house.

I'm sick of the poor search options, bickering, shady deposits, guilds shifting funds around between each other to secure spots.

AlnilamE

So let's say a guild bids 100k on a trader one week and wins.

This information is now public.

This guild now knows that anyone else who bids on the trader knows how much they bid and can place a higher bid next week.

What will the guild that won the trader do? Keep the bid the same or increase it?

What will a guild that wants the trader do?

Giraffon

Yeah, you'll bid the price up until it no longer makes sense to do that. Then you'll say it's not worth anymore than that to me. Someone else can have it if they are willing to pay more. That's economics. That's fair. That's what I want to see. That exactly.

code65536

The point still stands that you are proposing a bastardized system where you have partial transparency and no chance to react. Either go full transparency with an open bidding system, or stay with a fully-blind bidding system. One or the other. This middle-of-the-ground cancer that you propose is the worst of both worlds and is absolute nonsense.

Alpheu5

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

Giraffon wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

No the price would definitely go up. How is it not fair? The other guilds can't see what anyone is bidding either. It's not like you are the only one unable to see the winning bid.

It is invisible for everyone. If you knew what the winning bid was then you could just come in and win it for 10k more the following week. Everyone is on equal ground, nobody knows what won the bid that they lost. Unless they were doing some spying.

And honestly I don't care what my guild bids or if it doesn't match up with what they say they bid so long as they always win the bid. If they started losing then I might be concerned.

That's exactly the point! The next week, the bids will be higher. So yeah, everyone is going to bid over last weeks bid. But by how much? Eventually everyone will hit a break point where it's not worth it to them and then go somewhere else. That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I want everyone to be able to assess the general price range of a guild trader without wasting that week's bid on something that they have no chance of getting at all.

Pick one side of the court, please.

AFrostWolf

Agreed. They need to show the bid so that the true price can be seen. I'm sick and tired of the Cartels having their way with the ESO economy.

vamp_emily

Anyone know where I can find a cheap guild trader at? Preferable one near a Wayshrine.

We only have 100k to spend.

Jamini

I'm surprised if any guild traders would go as low as even 100k, to be honest. That seems extremely low.

idk

@Giraffon

I respect your oppinion, however you seem to think only your oppinion should be considered to the point that you seem to avoid sound logic when presented such as the post I quoted below.

code65536 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And then prices would eternally go up.

No they wouldn't. Economics would take over. Once the true value was realized, then the prices would stabilize. If they are too high, then they would come down.

It's a nice hybrid solution. I wouldn't want the real time price displayed because then it becomes a situation where the players would be up bidding at the last second. Nobody wants that. Last week's price would be sufficient to help everyone.

And what if you are in the guild that won the trader and they've been misleading you about how much the guild trader has been costing? Wouldn't you like to know that?

I don't see a downside.

No the price would definitely go up. How is it not fair? The other guilds can't see what anyone is bidding either. It's not like you are the only one unable to see the winning bid.

It is invisible for everyone. If you knew what the winning bid was then you could just come in and win it for 10k more the following week. Everyone is on equal ground, nobody knows what won the bid that they lost. Unless they were doing some spying.

And honestly I don't care what my guild bids or if it doesn't match up with what they say they bid so long as they always win the bid. If they started losing then I might be concerned.

That's exactly the point! The next week, the bids will be higher. So yeah, everyone is going to bid over last weeks bid. But by how much? Eventually everyone will hit a break point where it's not worth it to them and then go somewhere else. That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I want everyone to be able to assess the general price range of a guild trader without wasting that week's bid on something that they have no chance of getting at all.

The end result is that we'll end up at a steady state that is higher than what it is now. And much more stressful. And far more chaotic. It's an absolutely terrible idea through and through.

1. First, transparency works only if parties have time to react. There is no reaction until the next week. If the bidding system is to be blind, then it should commit to being truly blind. You are lifting the veil on a blind bid without giving people the necessary means to respond to it.
2. Your argument also assumes that everyone is bidding for the same reason--that they are seeking to hold one particular spot week to week. It's fine for two guilds vying for the same spot and both guilds are looking at what they can afford week-to-week. There are guilds that jump around places week to week. And there are troll guilds and joke guilds with nothing for sale that just jump in for a week for fun. If you can see what the "steady state" bid is for a spot, what's to stop you from adding 1K to that bid the next week if you just want to mess with someone? And as the person holding that spot, you'll always live with the knowledge that someone could beat you by just 1K at any given time.

If you want to argue for a transparent system, fine, whatever, but it must be fully transparent where all bids are open and where you get an instant notification that you've been outbid so that you can react. A Frankensteined system of the worst of both worlds like that you propose will be nothing but disastrous.

Giraffon

vamp_emily wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find a cheap guild trader at? Preferable one near a Wayshrine.

We only have 100k to spend.

If they would change the system so it shows the last winning bid, you would at least have a pretty good idea of where to look. Wouldn't that be nice for a change? Imagine that you have 100K to spend. You go to Mournhold and look at the traders there and find all the winning bids are over 1 million gold. Not gonna bother with that! Then you go to that little guild trader that doesn't even show up on the map because they are inside of a secondary village and you can only see them if you are actually in the village...that guy...his last winning bid was 55K.

You figure the paranoid winning bidder will raise their price to defend against a buy-out so you bid 80K. You'll never make enough profits from this guy to offset that dollar amount but your guild is happy because they have a trader. Taking into account the value of a happy guild, you decide it's a fair price to you for what you are getting. You wouldn't pay much more than that so if someone wants it for 90K next week, they can have it.

And that's the kind of system I want to see in the game. It's that simple. It's economics at it's finest!

idk

Guys. Time for us to avoid posting in this thread. OP has shown he is not interested in your thoughts and only means to tell you that it his his oppinion that needs to be considered for change in the game.

He has ignored the most detailed part of the discussion since the logic twice and I guess it's due to the inconvenience it brings into the discussion.

Giraffon

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Guys. Time for us to avoid posting in this thread. OP has shown he is not interested in your thoughts and only means to tell you that it his his oppinion that needs to be considered for change in the game.

He has ignored the most detailed part of the discussion since the logic twice and I guess it's due to the inconvenience it brings into the discussion.

Well I'm just not interested in the "logic" presented so far.

The whole system is too entrenched. Guild traders are held by the same guilds week after week. Start showing the previous winning bids on those traders. Let economic forces take over instead of the semi-organized trade cartels that seem to be controlling this aspect of the game.

That would be more fair to all players than what we have now.