Why Not Show Last Winning Bid on Guild Traders?

ComboBreaker88

Giraffon wrote: »

Why not show the last winning bid on the guild trader bid screen? If I could see that the last week's winning bid was 5 million gold, it would sure help a lot. What if to me it looks like a 100K gold trader so I'm bidding 100K week 1, then 125K the next...do you know how freakin' long that's gonna take me to get a clue? I mean we are flying blind out there! Show us the last winning bid!

So wait... You want to see the winning bid so you know what the other guild is bidding so you can out bid them? Lol it used to be this way. Then ZOS realized that a blind bid was much more fair and allowed guilds a chance to become established. Seeing the winning bid is a two way street with only one lane for traffic. It was a mess. I'm glad it has been changed to the way it is. More guild features would be amazing. Allowing everyone to see the bids... Not so much.

ComboBreaker88

Giraffon wrote: »

Yeah, you'll bid the price up until it no longer makes sense to do that. Then you'll say it's not worth anymore than that to me. Someone else can have it if they are willing to pay more. That's economics. That's fair. That's what I want to see. That exactly.

But it already is this way. You just have to bid high enough to make it not worth it to them. So go aheat and do that. There is no reason for you to be able to see what another guild is bidding.

ComboBreaker88

Grabmoore wrote: »

Americans <----> reasonable economic decisions


Choose one.

This doesnt even make sense.

mesmerizedish

Giraffon wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I guess you have a lot of gold?^^

Not really. I've struggled with landing guild traders since Homestead rolled out. The introduction of Master Writs caused inflation and basically the cost of guild traders is too high for me now.

The in game economy needs a corrective action and this is it.

So do you just not accept that your proposal will cause prices to rise, or do you honestly want literally the opposite of a solution to your problem?

I'm after a long term solution. This is it. Prices go up. Guild traders spend all their money. Prices go down to true market values. Or they don't because the true market values are not yet achieved. Honestly I don't care. Either way there is no reason for this to all be a secret.

For the most part, the current guild traders are in a kind of equilibrium where guilds can confidently keep the traders they've had for weeks and weeks. Doesn't this suggest that your "true market values" have already been achieved? As observers, we can be reasonably confident that no guild is currently spending more than they can sustain, because if that were true, trader ownership would be in much greater flux. The current state of things suggests that current prices are sustainable. You're never going to see long-term prices lower than they are now.

If the bids are revealed, and prices skyrocket in the short-term as guilds pile more and more money on, it is conceivable that the poor planners among them will bankrupt themselves. But at that point, the better planners will still be able to bid what they've always bid. Even in a bizarre fantasy world where not even a single guild can think more than a week in advance, once they exhaust their war chests, they'll save it back up again and the cycle will continue. There will never be an equilibrium, just endlessly yo-yoing prices as guilds gain and lose the ability to place higher bids.

That lack of stability is bad for both sellers and buyers, and you personally will STILL be unable to afford a trader.

Giraffon

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Nope. I don't care about the effect it has on the trade cartels. Not one bit.

Let's make it fair for everyone. Let everyone see what the last winning bid was so they can decide if they want to compete for that location or look for a less expensive site.

Your suggestion would kill the market for non organised trading guilds. Do you understand that?

Guild cartels would rule every notable spot, because the rest couldn't keep up with the huge increase in cost. Ok?

@Grabmoore he doesn't care. He is not interested in any negative impact in the game as long as he gets what he wants.

Can we say entitlement?

Totally agree @Giles.floydub17_ESO .
I wish we could just write it off as they are new, but they have been here since launch, so I will assume they are new to "Kiosk Bidding".
I personally am responsible for bidding on 3 traders a week. (Yes, I'm crazy )
1 is my social guild (250k - 500k bid range), 1 is my PvP guild (40k-75k bid range) and 1 is a large trading guild (1mill-4mill bid range), so I cover all area's of guild size and kiosk bidding, and I can say, IMO, that the OP's idea is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time.
I won't even begin to explain why because as you said, they don't want to hear anything except what they want to hear.
On a side note, I think it's cute that they are "On Strike" because of Master Writs. (See signature of OP).
Huzzah!

Nope. Not new. Been bidding on traders for at least a year. I understand the system just fine. I just think it needs to be changed. Not auction house change. No definitely not that. Just less smoke and mirrors for all players.

Right now prices are being influenced in ways that were not intended.

Showing the most recent winning bid would benefit even the newest guild masters. They would be able to make educated choices about guild trader rates from day one instead of losing bids over and over with no idea if they were even close to market value. Just show the prices and move on. It's a good thing.

Merlin13KAGL

Giraffon wrote: »

Nope. Not new. Been bidding on traders for at least a year. I understand the system just fine. I just think it needs to be changed. Not auction house change. No definitely not that. Just less smoke and mirrors for all players.

LMAO...oh no, not that, because then you'd have actual market value being taken into account, something you clearly don't want.

Right now prices are being influenced in ways that were not intended.

People are either willing to buy or they aren't. Guilds aren't making people purchase at a particular price.

Showing the most recent winning bid would benefit even the newest guild masters. They would be able to make educated choices about guild trader rates from day one instead of losing bids over and over with no idea if they were even close to market value. Just show the prices and move on. It's a good thing.

Dude, let it go. You bid for the trader what the trader is worth for your guild to own, not more, not less. If it's beyond that price, it's already more than you wanted to pay anyway.

It's like buying a collectible - there is no intrinsic value, it's whatever someone has personally decided it's worth.

Same rule applies.

Knowing the $ amount will not, in any way shape or form, somehow increase your ability to shell out more for the spot than you were previously willing to.

Giraffon

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Nope. Not new. Been bidding on traders for at least a year. I understand the system just fine. I just think it needs to be changed. Not auction house change. No definitely not that. Just less smoke and mirrors for all players.

LMAO...oh no, not that, because then you'd have actual market value being taken into account, something you clearly don't want.

Right now prices are being influenced in ways that were not intended.

People are either willing to buy or they aren't. Guilds aren't making people purchase at a particular price.

Showing the most recent winning bid would benefit even the newest guild masters. They would be able to make educated choices about guild trader rates from day one instead of losing bids over and over with no idea if they were even close to market value. Just show the prices and move on. It's a good thing.

Dude, let it go. You bid for the trader what the trader is worth for your guild to own, not more, not less. If it's beyond that price, it's already more than you wanted to pay anyway.

It's like buying a collectible - there is no intrinsic value, it's whatever someone has personally decided it's worth.

Same rule applies.

Knowing the 4 amount will not, in any way shape or form, somehow increase your ability to shell out more for the spot than you were previously willing to.

I don't like the auction house idea because I think it's more fun and immersive to shop different guild traders in game. The economics of how things are priced is already revealed to anyone using add-ons such as master merchant. It's pretty easy to figure out if you are getting a fair price or not. True market value as it were.

And in response to the second remark, you are correct. Guilds are going to bid on a trader what it's worth to them. In theory, I would expect them to want to know in advance if their bid is viable. If they are willing to bid 250K but the trader is showing 5 million, well that information just saved them a week without a trader. Why wouldn't everyone want that?

ComboBreaker88

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I guess you have a lot of gold?^^

Not really. I've struggled with landing guild traders since Homestead rolled out. The introduction of Master Writs caused inflation and basically the cost of guild traders is too high for me now.

The in game economy needs a corrective action and this is it.

So do you just not accept that your proposal will cause prices to rise, or do you honestly want literally the opposite of a solution to your problem?

I'm after a long term solution. This is it. Prices go up. Guild traders spend all their money. Prices go down to true market values. Or they don't because the true market values are not yet achieved. Honestly I don't care. Either way there is no reason for this to all be a secret.

For the most part, the current guild traders are in a kind of equilibrium where guilds can confidently keep the traders they've had for weeks and weeks. Doesn't this suggest that your "true market values" have already been achieved? As observers, we can be reasonably confident that no guild is currently spending more than they can sustain, because if that were true, trader ownership would be in much greater flux. The current state of things suggests that current prices are sustainable. You're never going to see long-term prices lower than they are now.

If the bids are revealed, and prices skyrocket in the short-term as guilds pile more and more money on, it is conceivable that the poor planners among them will bankrupt themselves. But at that point, the better planners will still be able to bid what they've always bid. Even in a bizarre fantasy world where not even a single guild can think more than a week in advance, once they exhaust their war chests, they'll save it back up again and the cycle will continue. There will never be an equilibrium, just endlessly yo-yoing prices as guilds gain and lose the ability to place higher bids.

That lack of stability is bad for both sellers and buyers, and you personally will STILL be unable to afford a trader.

This. Exactly this. Well said.

idk

Omg. I just realized this is the biggest troll thread ever.

With this idea we could troll trade guilds into eternity, and never go broke.

Bid 100k more than they did last week. Kick them to the curb and turn around and sell the kiosk to someone. Let them have it for a week and catch them
Sleeping the following week.

Lmao. Of course @Giraffon doesn't really care as long as he gets what he wants. Lol

kargen27

Giraffon wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find a cheap guild trader at? Preferable one near a Wayshrine.

We only have 100k to spend.

If they would change the system so it shows the last winning bid, you would at least have a pretty good idea of where to look. Wouldn't that be nice for a change? Imagine that you have 100K to spend. You go to Mournhold and look at the traders there and find all the winning bids are over 1 million gold. Not gonna bother with that! Then you go to that little guild trader that doesn't even show up on the map because they are inside of a secondary village and you can only see them if you are actually in the village...that guy...his last winning bid was 55K.

You figure the paranoid winning bidder will raise their price to defend against a buy-out so you bid 80K. You'll never make enough profits from this guy to offset that dollar amount but your guild is happy because they have a trader. Taking into account the value of a happy guild, you decide it's a fair price to you for what you are getting. You wouldn't pay much more than that so if someone wants it for 90K next week, they can have it.

And that's the kind of system I want to see in the game. It's that simple. It's economics at it's finest!

It is not economics at its finest. It is price creep and price creep is the economies arch enemy. I vibrant and viable economy must be fluid in both supply and demand. What you are proposing will only increase demand but will do nothing for supply. That leads to increasing prices. The increased price would be artificial as the added cost affords no added value. Worse given the lack of a fluid supply that price will not correct but will continue to creep.

Giraffon

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Omg. I just realized this is the biggest troll thread ever.

With this idea we could troll trade guilds into eternity, and never go broke.

Bid 100k more than they did last week. Kick them to the curb and turn around and sell the kiosk to someone. Let them have it for a week and catch them
Sleeping the following week.

Lmao. Of course @Giraffon doesn't really care as long as he gets what he wants. Lol

Yeah, it kinda' feels like a troll thread. And I'd be lying if I denied taking pleasure in watching the discomfort level at my idea, but I stand by it none the less.

What you guys don't realize is that you are just saying that the supply is too low. Price goes up when demand is greater than supply. You're all just freaked out about the possibility of increasing prices.

Maybe we should all turn our attention to Zeni and demand more guild traders? I would get on the same team for that cause.

Merlin13KAGL

Giraffon wrote: »

And in response to the second remark, you are correct. Guilds are going to bid on a trader what it's worth to them. In theory, I would expect them to want to know in advance if their bid is viable. If they are willing to bid 250K but the trader is showing 5 million, well that information just saved them a week without a trader. Why wouldn't everyone want that?

Except your theory is missing a few vital pieces of information that make it flawed.

In the scenario above, the guild willing to bid 250K, knowing the trader is showing 200K, still doens't guarnatee them a trader when another guild is willing to bid 300K.

Apparently you're never been to an auction, silent or otherwise, a day in your life.

Giraffon

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

And in response to the second remark, you are correct. Guilds are going to bid on a trader what it's worth to them. In theory, I would expect them to want to know in advance if their bid is viable. If they are willing to bid 250K but the trader is showing 5 million, well that information just saved them a week without a trader. Why wouldn't everyone want that?

Except your theory is missing a few vital pieces of information that make it flawed.

In the scenario above, the guild willing to bid 250K, knowing the trader is showing 200K, still doens't guarnatee them a trader when another guild is willing to bid 300K.

Apparently you're never been to an auction, silent or otherwise, a day in your life.

Please review the thread. I don't care if the price goes up. That is simply supply and demand at work.

cspinasdf

I'd rather have the average price for each trader over the past year released annually. That would give a good baseline. Or I'd like to see a range for each trader like 10-100k, 100k-1million, 1 million-10 million, 10 mil +. Either case it wouldn't give the exact amount of the previous week so it wouldn't massively increase guild trader costs. The problem with that, is it'd boost most guild traders up to 100k, a decent amount for a new trading guild.