Official Feedback Thread for Dark Brotherhood

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Dark Brotherhood. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes:

• Did you find that all the quests were working correctly and as expected?
• How did you like the Blade of Woe?
  • Did it function as you expected?
  • Did you find any exploits while using it?
  • Did it feel good functionally as a synergy?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

MrWackeo

• Quest progression seems to be working fine, the speaker you meet at the beginning's dialogue seems to be delayed a fair amount of seconds after you initiate dialogue with him.
• Blade of Woe is fantastic and insanely fun to use and watch the kill cams. Exceeded expectations.
  • Yes, working fine except I have noticed that the NPC you are killing doesn't always align with your character properly (I was playing on a tiny Bosmer, maybe this is why?), the animation then shows you stabbing yourself which is awkward.
  • None that I have found yet.
  • Yes, synergy is defiantly the way to go with this ability, works well, feels good.
• Quests are fun, seems to work well so far. I like it better than Thieves guild already. Maybe add a dye station to the Sanctuary? I was disappointed it had everything but that. The Sanctuary's halls seem kinda empty, didn't feel very epic walking around, maybe this is what your going for but a few more shelves are decorations around wouldn't hurt. Other than that its pretty awesome.

tinythinker

So far, I don't recognize these locales without lots more deadra, screams, and burning, but the <remain silent> option when joining the DB did take me back.

JD2013

• Quests working so far. A little strange without any music and sounds, and not much dialogue, but we knew this was a thing.
• Blade of Woe is brutal and fun. Very fitting of the Dark Brotherhood.
• Gold Coast looks fantastic. Yet another great work by the art team and world building team!
• As a synergy the Blade of Woe can have a little bit of a delayed reaction between activating and executing. Maybe just me?

What I will say is though, this DLC is very close to the Thieves Guild. But with murdering instead of stealing. Don't get me wrong, I expected this. I knew what we would likely be getting with Dark Brotherhood, but all the same, two DLC's of stealthy gameplay and the such feels a little bit ... flavourless?

One thing that also bugs me a little is the Gold Coast itself. It looks beautiful, but again it is very small in scope. I realise that this is because the guild is tied to the DLC, and so as the quests take us all over Tamriel (dailies and bounties etc) they do not need to be in one area, so the zones are smaller.

I also realise that we were a little spoiled with Orsinium, as that was a larger than usual zone, and you are going to have a lot of DLC to put out, and there is only so much room on the map. But 2 Delves and 2 World Bosses again is kind of small for keeping players going for even a couple of months.

In these well designed cities, there's no real amount of quests outside of the Dark Brotherhood quests. (However, it was LOVELY to see

Crafty Lerisa hanging out in Kvatch.

But, you have an immense storyline coming up, can you at least tease it a little more? I realise, of course, that I have not completed all the things in GC and so there's no way of knowing yet if there are or are not hints to the future. But keep your player base hooked.

The DB is undoubtedly a fun little addition to the game though, and I look forward to playing more.

tinythinker

Quests work fine so far, the BoW works fine and looks really cool, but it's the Thieve's Guild DLC all over again for me. It might be fun on my Nightblade using Shadow Cloak, but on my other characters it's lots of waiting, sneaking, waiting, then having an NPC randomly turn around and spot me before I can use the BoW or while trying simply to evade a guard. It doesn't feel epic or thrilling racking up a huge bounty by bulldozing through NPCs or taking forever on a simple quest just get spotted. More"meh". I like my magicka characters, so no medium armor, etc.

I'm sure a lot of players will like this and have lots of fun, but it feels tedious right off the bat. I really, really hope that this is the last "sneak"-based DLC. If there was some illusion spell we could use to distract regular guards TG and DB would be much better. Give it a cool-down so it can't be used non-stop as a cheap way to bypass mechanics, especially if lantern carriers are immune and it's single-target. Then I could have at least a few seconds of slow sneaking to get to the target and hit X without him spinning around at the last second. More skill, less RNG --> fun.

PS: careful vamps, from a certain distance FEED will pop up first, and you need to get closer before it is replaced by BoW for the synergy button. Knocked myself out of Stage 4 (which I prefer) into Stage 3 and am stuck there now for several hours. Honestly, that whole system is backward anyway. The best stuff has always been Stage 4 -- you should have to feed to get more vamp/more powerful, not less.


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Early bugs/issues:

Bugs:
-combat music not playing
-voices not matching (my Argonians battle cries are the wrong ones for the female voice selected)
-battle sounds are missing (abilities, clink/clank, explosions, etc)
-the chopping/mining sounds for gathering from nodes are missing
-Templar's charge still fails to launch a lot, even when on level ground and not too far from the target

Problems:
-it's too easy to accidentally have the game switch synergies between Vampire's "Feed" and the DB's "Blade of Woe" if you're tailing an NPC; you then get stuck in a different stage of vampirism for several hours and may lose access to passives helpful to an assassin
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Update #1, April 27th:

Got on again briefly last night, had an easier time with using BoW rather than Feed. It takes a little practice and you actually have to wait more than you would like sometimes, giving an NPC a chance to turn and ruin the attack, but it's getting better. Still would love, love, love to have that illusion spell for non-stealth builds/classes, though.

Paid a bit more attention to the zone itself. It really has such a different feel to it, as in it feels like a really different place than any we've been to so far. No other zone has felt this way to such a degree where it is so noticeable. And this is a good thing. Having all of Tamriel feel generic, like oh kind of the same but with more trees/bosmer, isn't so good. This isn't a backhanded insult to prior zones, nor did all prior zones feel 100% the same, only that whatever the team did for this zone to make it feel like being in a whole new kind of area should be bottled and passed out to the other teams working on new zones. A shame it's so small but I get why it is. Maybe it can one day be expanded as other neighboring zones are filled in.

I finished the first set of quests and they ran well, were paced well, and were fun/interesting. Looking forward to the next chapter of the story.

-Bug report-

*No new bugs encountered.*

Slurg

If I have to kill an "innocent" in Anvil, can you at least put some real jerks around town who deserve what's coming to them?

Epona222

I haven't got very far yet, just took the quest from the NPC in the refuge.

I have been told to go to Anvil, but the only method I can see to get there is the Wayshrine. I appreciated in Craglorn and in the Orsinium and Thieves Guild DLCs the fact that there is transport, go to a boat, get on the cart - I know not everyone cares about this sort of thing, but for a lot of us (especially those of us that appreciate the PvE 'story' zones most) it is good for immersion to have that.

Hopefully there are many DLC to come and I wouldn't want the world to be splattered with a multitude of carts and ships for each, but perhaps it could be consolidated into 1 ship and 1 cart/carriage (with either being used dependent on whether access to a new zone was by sea or by land) per alliance with a "take me to x location" dialogue option?

BoloBoffin

I got trapped in a Smugglers Den quest. I killed the two NPCs I was supposed to, and made it out to the foyer area before the Overseer showed up. But I could not get out of the door to return to the Sanctuary. It wouldn't work. I finally had to abandon the quest to leave the area since you can not port out of a Sacrament quest area.

Sordidfairytale

Similar to others I guild ported to another guildie that happened to be inside Smugglers Den and I did not have quest. I couldn't then port to another guildie, party member, or wayshrine. I ended up entering Cyrodiil and using wayshrine there.

And oops, I ended up with a bounty so when I arrived in town I was given a very warm welcome.

Epona222

Can I just say how pleased I am to meet another member of the Motierre family in connection with DB? Nice connection with existing TES games, well done (I am assuming it was deliberate of course)

JD2013

Epona222 wrote: »

Can I just say how pleased I am to meet another member of the Motierre family in connection with DB? Nice connection with existing TES games, well done (I am assuming it was deliberate of course)

Yes this made me smile too.

And the ride up to Kvatch, just approaching the city . . . The nostalgia feels are real.

StopDropAndBear

The Shrouded Armor does some funky things to my Argonian's headwear. Rather, the hats stack on top of the hood. Not that I'm complaining because it makes the Vosh Rakh mask look cool as heck, but obviously worth pointing out.

dpencil

Can you please add a gameplay option to toggle the blade of woe's execute animation on and off? When we stand far enough back we can throw the blade, and this does not pull us out of our overhead or first person view. As cool as the execute shot is, it is repetitive and it is by far the most gory thing in the game. My 4 year old likes to sit on my lap and watch me play sometimes, and I do not feel comfortable with him watching this. I know the game is rated M. I am not asking that the animation be removed for everyone. I am asking for the option to toggle it off if we so chose. Please consider this, devs.

bdavenportx_ESO

Issues with the Blade of Woe & Vampirism feeding synergy. The vampire feeding synergy can be activated from further away than the Blade of Woe synergy, which often results in the "wrong" one being done when you are attempting to assassinate an NPC that is moving. This results in aggro and a bounty rather than a clean kill.

Need to find have some method of disabling one of those two synergies if the other is active, or find some other work around as it is adversely impacting gameplay.

hamgatan

Little deviation off topic post.. but have to say..

This update looks far more polished and cleaner than anything to date. Visually its gorgeous.. it doesn't have the lag stutter problems Hews Bane had.. my framerate has gone ridiculously high for some reason (100fps, even in combat.. unless the fps meter is bugged?). Even the UI has been tweaked just right.. menus are logical.. icons are clean and crisp.

Even though i disagree with many of the skill changes on the whole this is really a huge shakeup of the product and you should be chuffed with the result! Good work!

imenace

i have no idea where to report this but the vampire passive 'dark stalker' doesnt function properly, the speed you sneak in is cut in half

hamgatan

imenace wrote: »

i have no idea where to report this but the vampire passive 'dark stalker' doesnt function properly, the speed you sneak in is cut in half

Working as intended. It's been nerfed into the ground. It only now initiates if you are at Stage 4 Vampirism.

ZOS_The_Adoring_Fan

BoloBoffin wrote: »

I got trapped in a Smugglers Den quest. I killed the two NPCs I was supposed to, and made it out to the foyer area before the Overseer showed up. But I could not get out of the door to return to the Sanctuary. It wouldn't work. I finally had to abandon the quest to leave the area since you can not port out of a Sacrament quest area.

Do you have any additional details which might help us reproduce this issue? Were you in a group, if so what size group was it? Were there other players present but not in your group within the sacrament instance? Did you notice whether the door interaction was present when you began the sacrament?

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Similar to others I guild ported to another guildie that happened to be inside Smugglers Den and I did not have quest. I couldn't then port to another guildie, party member, or wayshrine. I ended up entering Cyrodiil and using wayshrine there.

And oops, I ended up with a bounty so when I arrived in town I was given a very warm welcome.

Were you unable to use the door? Your post mentions that you can't teleport but we're trying to isolate whether you had the same door issue that BoloBoffin mentions. If the door did not function, can you answer any of the above questions?

We're working to isolate and reproduce this issue internally, and any information is appreciated.

Drazorious

I had the same door issue. There was no prompt to active the door to exit. I used the cyradil work around to get out

Maseri

I hit this same issue as well where I could not leave the Smugglers' Den, unfortunately I don't have much information now as I resorted to entering and leaving Cyrodiil to leave the area. I could not see the option to (or use) the door to leave after killing the target NPC.

GTech_1

StopDropAndBear wrote: »

The Shrouded Armor does some funky things to my Argonian's headwear. Rather, the hats stack on top of the hood. Not that I'm complaining because it makes the Vosh Rakh mask look cool as heck, but obviously worth pointing out.

This same thing occurs with the Xivkyn light armor head piece.
Cad's hat goes right on top of the model.

exiledtyrant

Did you find that all the quests were working correctly and as expected?aw

The first 5 or so quests worked well for me.

How did you like the Blade of Woe?

Blade of Woe was a neat idea. It really pulls you into the whole assassin theme.

Did it function as you expected?

It did.

Did you find any exploits while using it?

None so far.

Did it feel good functionally as a synergy?

Yes it was very easy to use for the most part.

Do you have any other general feedback?

The quest givers keep saying kill how you want etc, but that doesn't really feel like the case at all. The encounters feel like stealth or bust. The cost for getting caught doing anything brotherhood related is to prohibitive to be anything but a stealth killer. It slows down a lot of the action and make me feel pigeon holed. It might as well require medium armor too.

The sewer daily quest was pretty bad in relaying information for when the overseer arrives. If I don't know when one of my optionals is popping up I feel unnecessarily rushed. The fact that everything was so easy kill made having to slink around all the more irritating. It's either pretend my character isn't as strong as they are supposed to be, or cough up 5-7k gold a missions because I refused to sneak however.

WatchYourSixx

@Dpencil , there is an option in Camera settings to turn off the "Assassination" camera view.

WatchYourSixx

@Epona222 , There is a boat in the starting cities. If you make a template, you will appear right next to it.

WatchYourSixx

As for feedback,

Blade of Woe camera is awesome, however, if you are close to a wall or something the angle gets messed up and you potentially cant even see the attack.

I've also noticed if I try to move the camera while its doing the animation, my character can sometimes shift directions, and end up stabbing the air or something!

Also, dead bodies that had blood spewing from them should have some kind of death indication of being assassinated. Something like a bloodstain or such would go a long way to make me feel like I just killed someone. (I suppose that should apply to every man/mer killed, but i digress)

Perhaps increase the range just a bit between throwing the dagger, and stabbing someone? I tend to be close but still throw the dagger, or find myself close enough that I COULD just stab them instead of throw it. I dont fully understand why I have to be so close to throw a dagger, when im just a step or two from stabbing them.

Also, are there different animations based on race? I duplicated 3 different animations on bosmer, and 3 completely different ones on a khajiit. Intended?

dpencil

@WatchYourSixx Thanks for pointing the camera option out!

Epona222

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

@Epona222 , There is a boat in the starting cities. If you make a template, you will appear right next to it.

Thanks, I did find it the next day when I was testing starting the DLC with a "straight out of coldharbour" character - for some reason, that time the quest marker actually pointed me to the boat (probably because I was already in Vukhel Guard as I had only just arrived in game) and I had a bit of an "aha!!!" moment.

I wonder whether it might be worth Zenimax putting that info in the journal text for the "Voices in the Dark" quest so that it is a bit more obvious that there are boats available. (ie. "Go to Anvil by Wayshrine or take a boat from Vukhel Guard, Davon's Watch, or Daggerfall docks")

Epona222

A couple of bugs/glitches that I have noticed:

The achievements "Anvil Murder Spree" and "Kvatch Murder Spree" do not count kills correctly, have tried on 2 characters with a mix of just wandering around killing ordinary NPCs when not on a quest, and on 1 character I also had contracts including a killing spree contract in Kvatch, the other character has been killing in both Kvatch and Anvil on story quests, and the achievements do not seem to log any kills after the first 1.

Had trouble using the blade of woe execution on stairs, the animation would begin with my character starting to lunge forwards then cancel, which is a shame as stairs in buildings often make for a nice witness-free kill.

Abeille

Did you find that all the quests were working correctly and as expected?

As other said, the door in Smuggler Den wasn't interactable. Also, in another daily (I'm sorry, I don't remember the name), I got DC'd right after killing the target (an argonian, if it helps) and kicked out of the instance. When I came back, I had to enter it again and start the objectives over, but the target wasn't there anymore. The secondary objective, destroying an object the target cherished, could be completed again.

Other than that, some characters are missing voice overs (Kor and Green-Poison-Tongue) or it is delayed (the Speaker). Same for mouth animations. But I had no problem completing any other quests.

How did you like the Blade of Woe?

It is awesome! I really got the assassin feel from it, finally. It was annoying to play my assassin character when I had to fight innocents and couldn't really assassinate them swiftly and quietly. I can't thank you enough for that. Plus, you made a "kill cam" work in this game, which I never expected to happen. Kudos to you all.

Did it function as you expected?

Oh yes, it is perfect. You can ask Elam Drals (my new favorite npc). I only complete his contracts using the Blade of Woe.

Did you find any exploits while using it?

No, not a single one, and I used it a lot (got the achievement for killing 100 people with it forever ago).

Did it feel good functionally as a synergy?

Well... No. I mean, it probably would, if my assassin wasn't also a vampire. Because feeding and using the Blade of Woe work on the same way, I often feed instead of using the Blade of Woe, which makes me go to Stage 3 (which I don't want, because I like running while on stealth) and gets me a bounty without killing my target. I don't know if it is possible because both work as synergies, but it would be nice to be able to assign a different key to it or to feeding.

Do you have any other general feedback?

Thank you for the recurring characters. I was very happy to see them again, all of them. You did a great job with this DLC in general.
I was afraid that you would tone down the Dark Brotherhood, but they really don't shy away from killing innocents and you made that very clear. It is especially clear when you read the motives for the contracts for the repeatable quests ("My kin drinks too much and skips job", "the visitor overstayed and I want him gone", "this person is too cheerful, kill one of her friends so she will shut up", this kind of stuff).

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Minor issue with the audio. I know it's not fully in but during the "A Ghost From the Past" quest, while at the Kvatch temple, the audio played over itself from the two characters speaking. They were talking over each other. So it appears the timing is a little off.

Contraptions

Did you find that all the quests were working correctly and as expected?
I found the main quests and repeatables to be working correctly, would rather the repeatables have some better rewards than just gold honestly. Add tiers to the repeatables like the TG quests ie. send us to multiple zones/locations, multiple targets, bonus for using Blade of Woe etc. More tiers, more rewards. Let these extra rewards be more gold, poisons instead of some useless gear. I wish there was a special poison they could reward us with that was meant only for assassinating NPCs, which would be used by reverse pickpocketing the target, who would then die silently a few moments later. This would be useful for truly silent kills, completely undetectable.

As for the Sacraments, I absolutely hate them. I didn't think it was possible, but you made them even more unrewarding than the TG heists.

- Firstly, all of them take place in restricted areas. Which means that if you get spotted not only is your reward penalised you get an EXTRA BOUNTY on top of it. Rubbish, absolute rubbish.

- Secondly the lantern guards, the single most annoying thing about the TG heists, make a reappearance here and in EVEN GREATER NUMBERS. They walk so slowly, pause for long periods of time, and illuminate large areas. You can't even assassinate them since they reveal steathed players. They are an utter waste of time to deal with and kill the pacing of these quests. And you can't see their lantern radius if they go slightly above/below you, or if they're on an incline like stairs. Remove them from the game entirely please.

- The quest markers are completely useless. They're about as useful as drawing a circle over the entire map and telling me the target is in this area. Yeah, you don't say.

- Even assassinating isn't fun in the Sacrament quests, since the NPC density is so high that waiting for the perfect stealth kill is so tedious. If I want to kill someone I will most likely get spotted, which means a penalty and bounty. Also, the stealth mechanics don't work properly. I assassinated an NPC that was all alone with no one looking at us, and the alert counter went up by one. WHY?

- Why are there so many stupid side objectives? I take a contract to kill someone, I just want to get in, kill, get out. Some objectives like "kill target with poison" make no sense since getting into combat is penalized (although using the Blade of Woe works just fine for that objective as well). If you kill the main target before completing the side objectives you might as well restart the entire quest, since the countdown timer starts then and you definitely won't have time to escape if you want to complete the other objectives. Also, the best part is if you fail even ONE of the side objectives you get the crap tier of rewards. It's all or nothing. And I hate that. Give us the target and ONE side objective to complete. You do both, you get the higher tier. You do main objective, slightly less rewards. That system worked well for TG so please use it here as well instead of tying 3 different contradictory side requirements on the same bloody quest.

- Lastly, the instance doesn't even reset properly if you want to try again. I abandoned the quest which ported me out, and then I retook it since I wanted to try again. The "escape before overseer arrives" requirement instantly failed the moment I went in since the NPC was still there from my previous try. I then decided this wasn't worth any of my time.

Overall, your Sacrament quests are a deal breaker for me. They are the single most unenjoyable thing about this DLC and since they are going to be the long term repeatable content for DB, I probably will be giving DB a miss if it releases like that.

How did you like the Blade of Woe?
Blade of Woe was a nice touch, it allows me to complete the contracts without getting bounties too often. Would prefer the game make it clear whether my kill would actually be seen before I actually perform it. Even when "hidden", I often got bounties from NPCs far away. Don't really like that IMO.

Is it possible to change the indicator to
Hidden and fully closed eye: You are not within the vision cone of any NPC. Stealing and assassinating is fine.
Hidden and partially open eye: You are hidden, are within an NPC's vision cone, which means you will be spotted if you perform an assassination. Stealing is still fine.
Detected: As per normal, both stealing and assassinating will incur bounties.

Did it function as you expected?
Generally yes. But the Blade of Woe prompt has some serious limitations to it.

-You have to be on the same level as the target. Even a minor z-axis difference will mean you cannot assassinate (but can still pickpocket).
-There has to be perfect line of sight to the target. If you press the prompt while the target is in view, but behind an obstacle the animation will bug out.
- The animation is too slow. There are times when I get in position, press X and fail because the target moved out of range while I was playing the animation. One reason why the blade is slow is because you have to unsheathe your weapon before you can strike. Just play the conjuring animation without the need to unsheathe and it should be much faster.
- The animation bugs out, there are times when I would stab targets with my staff or bow if it happened to be equipped at that time.

Did you find any exploits while using it?
- None yet.

Did it feel good functionally as a synergy?
No, hitting synergy key is unnatural to me. Especially for vampires, who have feed bound to the same key. Would rather bind it to interrupt instead, no one should accidentally interrupt from stealth, unlike feeding or attacking.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Can we have wayshrines nearer to repeatable quest givers please? Really annoying to go through 4 load screens just to complete one daily. (applies to Orsinium and other content as well)