collectables and the upcomming changes

BlackEar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to provide a little insight and clarification on the upcoming changes to collectibles.

Currently, collectible trophies work differently for those obtained via fishing versus those obtained via monster kills. Fishing trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon item pick-up, whereas monster-kill trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon use. This difference was resulting in a high volume of bug reports and feedback in which players thought the collectible trophies were broken. That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform. That’s where the upcoming changes come in.

So what do those changes consist of? Here’s a short list:

• All collectible trophies will now grant the associated achievement when the item is first looted.
• Monster trophies will always drop off appropriate level monsters for your character. A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for.
• Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

So what happens to all the fish and monster trophies I have stacked in my bank right now?

snackrat

^ I'd guess they become Bind to Backpack and the first character to withdraw them is forced to keep them.

Another point I just realised (in ADDITION to fishing getting way more annoying): they say they checked that there would be always be creatures available, but are they basing this of dungeons as well? Especially since dungeons scale to you. Who on earth wants to start a group dedicated to farming dungeons for trophy drops?!

Either keep it as-is, or have loot drop constantly regardless of level. Don't force PvPer's to PvE dungeons, or PVEr's to grind in Cyrodill/IC.

Ourorboros

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please publish the complete list to show where a character of each level in each alliance can go to get each monster trophy in the game.

I second this. If you are going to make collectibles unbankable, and ameliorate the change by stating all collectibles will be available at all levels, please tell us how you've done this. If the answer is a few creatures at the end of a group dungeon with the same RNG chance of a drop currently in game, then your 'solution' is far from satisfactory. If a complete list is too much, how about addressing a few of the more problematic drops: Wraiths, Kagouti, and Nix-hounds.

And if you're inclined to give us a list of creature locations, here's a head start: a lot of people contributed to creating this thread....http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129559/collectible-achievement-guide-spoiler-alert/p1

Artemiisia

a friend of mine just had to kill 900 of one sort to get collectibles, which he and I am fine with as long as its possible to actually grind it, and not having like two mobs in stage 7 of dsa dropping it with crazy low drop rate

AngryNord

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

So AD players will never be able to get that fleshy symbiot drop then

Are AD players somehow barred from Cadwell's Silver/Gold?

eNumbra

AngryNord wrote: »

Are AD players somehow barred from Cadwell's Silver/Gold?

While there may be some areas in DC and EP territory wheres there are a couple of Flesh Atronachs, there are no areas where farming is truly viable.

Rosveen

Do you even play your game, ZOS? Like, at all?

"A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for."
But you're not dropping level restrictions, which means you have no clue how rarely they drop. You can't possibly think the existing pockets of monsters in different alliances are enough for serious farming. It was already difficult and will take an eternity and a half now.

GG, ZOS. It's a mystery how you can be so blind so often.

KanedaSyndrome

NovaMarx wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to provide a little insight and clarification on the upcoming changes to collectibles.

Currently, collectible trophies work differently for those obtained via fishing versus those obtained via monster kills. Fishing trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon item pick-up, whereas monster-kill trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon use. This difference was resulting in a high volume of bug reports and feedback in which players thought the collectible trophies were broken. That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform. That’s where the upcoming changes come in.

So what do those changes consist of? Here’s a short list:

• All collectible trophies will now grant the associated achievement when the item is first looted.
• Monster trophies will always drop off appropriate level monsters for your character. A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for.
• Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

I appreciate that you (ZOS) are doing your best to improve the game, especially regarding issues that us players alert you to.

One big question though: When you say "Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character", does this include fishing too? Because if so, I will mourn no longer being able to fish with my hubby, whose main is in a different alliance than mine.

I do strongly disagree with your decision to no longer allow us to bank and trade collectibles between characters. Here's why:

* Almost Everything else can be banked and traded. With your logic, items that have been "bound" to one character (like armor) shouldn't be bankable either.
* This is just another reason for people not to make alts, even if they want to. As it is now, most people have ONE main, and the alts pretty much work for her/him - and most of us like it this way. It means that we can play our other alts but still "help" our main - so we don't feel it is a "waste of time" not playing on our main.
* Fishing and Collectible-hunting are social activities (some guilds even have this as a focus), and introducing restrictions may have a negative impact on the fishing/collectible-hunting community.
* With all this in mind, you are pretty much contradicting yourselves when you promote the game as "play as you want". How and what people choose to bank and trade between characters should not be given restrictions.

Now some have come with the argument/explanation that all achievements should be character based, and I do agree with that (to a certain extent). But what about other items, like recipes? If I find a rare recipe with an alt I give it to my main. Everything goes to my main, and I'm pretty sure almost everyone does this - even those who think of their alts as separate entities. It just makes no sense to make a certain group of items un-bankable/un-tradable, when the end result is cosmetic (dyes), while other items like recipes, armor, potions, soul gems, etc., are all bankable/tradable even when bound - and these things actually give you an edge/advantage in the actual game.

So many of us have adapted our play style to collectibles being bankable/tradable, so it does come as quite a shock to us. It just seems it's change for the sake of change, not because it will do anything for the community.

All-in-all, this decision should be reconsidered

Couldn't agree more!

With so many things to update in this game and change for more balance, you decide to go after one of the things that players enjoy immensively, that of being able to share trophies across their characters. Especially the trophy fish is a major issue if you remove the ability to share those with your different characters.

I fish with my girlfriend on an alt character, but at the same time I naturally want the achievements for my main character, so what you're saying is that in the future I'll have to get those achievements by fishing on my main solo. Fishing for us is something we do together, having to choose in the future between playing together or not getting the fishing achievements is really not a cool dilemma to offer us.

How about turning your attention to things that really matter and fix those instead of something that actually delights your players.

remedios17

Wooooow, great idea!

Just tell me: how the hell is an EP veteran supposed to get kagouti or nix hound collectibles now? Apart from grinding DSA...
I have my doubts about the 'game-wise audit"...

Guess all EP vets better make alts and grind these quick before the chance is taken from us forever... great! GG ZOS, as usual.

KiraTsukasa

Would a solution to this problem be the addition of a new crafting trait? Perhaps something of a "treasure hunter" trait that increases the drop rate of rare items. It doesn't have to be very much, maybe 1% at common level and increasing 0.5% for each additional improvement. I think it would stop this crying, while at the same time not just handing things out to people.

Rosveen

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Would a solution to this problem be the addition of a new crafting trait? Perhaps something of a "treasure hunter" trait that increases the drop rate of rare items. It doesn't have to be very much, maybe 1% at common level and increasing 0.5% for each additional improvement. I think it would stop this crying, while at the same time not just handing things out to people.

It's still unfair that some characters have nice farmable areas while other have to work with a handful of mobs in a group instance. But more importantly, think how research works. It would take months of real time to research a new trait on gear - and a mostly useless trait at that. A treasure hunt token/passive instead, maybe? But it still leaves the first problem.

Drop level restrictions on trophy looting. It's the only solution if they want to make them character-bound.

NovaMarx

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Would a solution to this problem be the addition of a new crafting trait? Perhaps something of a "treasure hunter" trait that increases the drop rate of rare items. It doesn't have to be very much, maybe 1% at common level and increasing 0.5% for each additional improvement. I think it would stop this crying, while at the same time not just handing things out to people.

People have long wanted something along these lines, especially when it comes to fishing.

The problem I think most of us are having with this decision (and why we are "crying") is that it removes some of the want/need to play with our alts, and it may have a negative impact on the social aspect of collecting/fishing, as people will be forced to play on their main character, whether they want to or not. Effectively negating the "play as you want" motto.

(Edition)
We are given 8 character slots, but we are limited more and more to play on just one character, which I find disappointing. I used to be one of the people who said "NO" to things being account-wide, but when they add restrictions like these I suddenly realise that there are actually things I like being account-wide, such as trophies. I'm repeating myself from my previous post here, but I think it's important that we as players do not end up feeling it's a waste of time playing on our alts.

Loomis

Why do you need to keep them anyway ... As soon as you get them the achievement shows a checkmark for that monster piece .... What am I missing here ... Only had about 5 drop so far being playing a month or so

Are the monster fishing collecting trophies once found or fished not account wide ...

If not just make it so no matter what character lots a monster trophy or catches a fish trophy it counts account wide that should be very very easy to program / make happen ... And should please everyone I assume?

starkerealm

remedios17 wrote: »

Wooooow, great idea!

Just tell me: how the hell is an EP veteran supposed to get kagouti or nix hound collectibles now? Apart from grinding DSA...
I have my doubts about the 'game-wise audit"...

Guess all EP vets better make alts and grind these quick before the chance is taken from us forever... great! GG ZOS, as usual.

Clearly, we're expected to buy Murkmire... whenver that gets released and then some other mainland Morrowind/Vvardenfell DLC sometime in 2018 for the Nix-Hounds.

eNumbra

The easiest solution, also the quickest, cheapest and least obtrusive to the player base would have been to add to the bottom of each collectable's description "(Use to add to collection)"

No, let's make things difficult. So it generated bug reports, slow people aren't fixable bugs.

NovaMarx

Loomis wrote: »

Why do you need to keep them anyway ... As soon as you get them the achievement shows a checkmark for that monster piece .... What am I missing here ... Only had about 5 drop so far being playing a month or so

Are the monster fishing collecting trophies once found or fished not account wide ...

If not just make it so no matter what character lots a monster trophy or catches a fish trophy it counts account wide that should be very very easy to program / make happen ... And should please everyone I assume?

No the actual achievements are not account-wide. Only the dye you get as result is. (They are clearly going away from letting things be account-wide, so I don't think they'll start now, even it would please many.)

Fish are automatically checked off the list once found/caught, and can thereafter be put in the bank for another character to enjoy. The other collectibles, however, you have to click them in order to check them off (in doing so they disappear). But if you don't click it you can still bank these for use on another character. (This difference is one of the reasons ZOS claim they are making this change, as some people find it difficult to administrate.)

As it is now, you are able to bank the collectibles you find (including fish), so that your desired character (usually your main) can get the achievement. If they make them un-bankable then you can no longer transfer fish/collectibles on alts to your main, or vice versa.

NovaMarx

eNumbra wrote: »

The easiest solution, also the quickest, cheapest and least obtrusive to the player base would have been to add to the bottom of each collectable's description "(Use to add to collection)"

No, let's make things difficult. So it generated bug reports, slow people aren't fixable bugs.

I couldn't agree more.
There must a be a better solution than implementing something as unnecessary this. As many others have stated: Why spend your time making changes like this when there are so many other bugs/issues/wishes that needs work and would benefit more players?

eNumbra

NovaMarx wrote: »

The other collectibles, however, you have to click them in order to check them off (in doing so they disappear). But if you don't click it you can still bank these for use on another character. (This difference is one of the reasons ZOS claim they are making this change, as some people find it difficult to administrate.)

The best and probably most ironic bit, I will guarantee it was designed this way, specifically because they know how rare Kagouti, Alits and Nix-hounds are outside of early EP zones and similar instances in other zones.

NovaMarx

eNumbra wrote: »

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NovaMarx wrote: »

The other collectibles, however, you have to click them in order to check them off (in doing so they disappear). But if you don't click it you can still bank these for use on another character. (This difference is one of the reasons ZOS claim they are making this change, as some people find it difficult to administrate.)

The best and probably most ironic bit, I will guarantee it was designed this way, specifically because they know how rare Kagouti, Alits and Nix-hounds are outside of early EP zones and similar instances in other zones.

Either that, or they really don't know/play their own game

Ourorboros

Why does it seem that making collectibles unbankable is a business decision designed with future DLC in mind, rather than a response to confusion over how to use collectibles? The change is more complicated by many degrees when a simple description on the item should have addressed how collectibles work. Call me paranoid, but I do have trust issues with ZOS. Although a lengthy official explanation was given, so much was left unexplained. If it is not intentional obfuscation, then please answer a few questions:

What were the results of the game-wide audit? Did you confirm, as we already know, that creatures in one's home alliance may be the hardest collectibles to gather due to level restrictions and creature availability? Did you confirm that drop rates for collectibles are uneven, even with RNG considered? For example, I've had multiple Chattering Skulls and Cat's Claw drop even though I killed no more of those creatures than I did Alits or Harpys. The latter have rarely dropped collectibles for me. If Assassin Beetles, Thunderbugs, and Shulk can all drop the same collectible in their respective alliance, why are there not more 'cousin' creatures across Tamriel? Isn't there something else beside Nix-hounds that can drop Multifaceted Eye? If Wraiths can drop both Wraith Shackle and Ectoplasmic Discharge, why can't Alit and Kagouti drop either a Tusk or a Bezoar--they are very similar creatures? If you are going to post 'clarification', then please make sure the post DOES provide some answers, not just raise more questions.

Artemiisia

A friend of mine just farmed lurncher and kept the supply roots to see how many he had to kill to get the collectible 535 supply roots collected and a drop rate roughly 1/3 so around 1500 he had to kill in order to do it. He also leveled a whole level by doing this.

So come on ZoS, how are we suppose to do this in the future when we will out level everything before its possilbe to collect erm

GTech_1

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to provide a little insight and clarification on the upcoming changes to collectibles.

Currently, collectible trophies work differently for those obtained via fishing versus those obtained via monster kills. Fishing trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon item pick-up, whereas monster-kill trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon use. This difference was resulting in a high volume of bug reports and feedback in which players thought the collectible trophies were broken. That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform. That’s where the upcoming changes come in.

So what do those changes consist of? Here’s a short list:

• All collectible trophies will now grant the associated achievement when the item is first looted.
• Monster trophies will always drop off appropriate level monsters for your character. A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for.
• Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I am very curious about why this was done.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to make all trophies tradeable, so they could then be sold in guild stores?
I believe that doing so would not only encourage the economy, but also give a valid use for them after you have the related achievement credit.

With the changes you mentioned above, after your character has the trophy in question, this rare "collectible" would become vendor trash.

Would you please ask the dev team to review these changes, and consider the long-term ramifications, before fully committing to these changes?

Thanks,
~GTech_1

redspecter23

It's probably been mentioned already but how about just make fishing and monster trophy achievements account wide. Set up a tab, oh I don't know, somewhere up top and call it trophies. If any toon on your account has received a trophy it gets added to this new account wide list. Complete the list and get the achievement. It should function very similarly to the tab already in place for horses, pets and outfits. All those are account wide, why not trophies and the corresponding achievements. Why even have a physical widget that we have to pick up?

starkerealm

GTech_1 wrote: »

Wouldn't it have made more sense to make all trophies tradeable, so they could then be sold in guild stores?
I believe that doing so would not only encourage the economy, but also give a valid use for them after you have the related achievement credit.

Yeah, the more I think about it, this makes way more sense. Why aren't they following the new template from PTS? Where items can be traded between players, to encourage interaction, or consumed to bind them into your collections panel... which would also make these accurately reflect their common status better and do away with the issue of players shuffling these between characters, since they could be "redeemed" by each character on the account from the collections page.

WandaMey

starkerealm wrote: »

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GTech_1 wrote: »

Wouldn't it have made more sense to make all trophies tradeable, so they could then be sold in guild stores?
I believe that doing so would not only encourage the economy, but also give a valid use for them after you have the related achievement credit.

Yeah, the more I think about it, this makes way more sense. Why aren't they following the new template from PTS? Where items can be traded between players, to encourage interaction, or consumed to bind them into your collections panel... which would also make these accurately reflect their common status better and do away with the issue of players shuffling these between characters, since they could be "redeemed" by each character on the account from the collections page.

It may be surprising because ZOS is trying so hard to be clear with these items (lol) collectible aren't "collection" and monster trophies are collectibles and not technically trophies.
I'm sure you get it now.
As to make them and rare fishes non-physical... how about a pixellated item that works exactly as it does right now instead?

daemonios

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

I have a question. Given the appalling drop rate, how is one supposed to get the monster collectibles if one plays several characters? I've been playing since early access and mostly play one character, but have 2 other very active alts and a number of less active ones. My main character at this point has something like half the collectibles, despite having farmed some of them for hours on end (specifically, storm and frost atronachs, giants, trolls and bears). I got the storm atronach collectible on a different character during a dungeon run, and just a couple days ago got TWO lurcher collectibles (for the first time) on the same character.

It will be infuriating to get that collectible you've been chasing on a character with whom you're not actively trying to get them. I understand making these achievements character-specific, but I honestly think you should look at the drop rates.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

Fissh wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to provide a little insight and clarification on the upcoming changes to collectibles.

Currently, collectible trophies work differently for those obtained via fishing versus those obtained via monster kills. Fishing trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon item pick-up, whereas monster-kill trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon use. This difference was resulting in a high volume of bug reports and feedback in which players thought the collectible trophies were broken. That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform. That’s where the upcoming changes come in.

So what do those changes consist of? Here’s a short list:

• All collectible trophies will now grant the associated achievement when the item is first looted.
• Monster trophies will always drop off appropriate level monsters for your character. A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for.
• Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

Clarify? Yes, in terms of the disparity in the way monster trophies and fishing trophies are used.
HOWERVER, the "Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character" is trivial.
Since this achievement has been introduced, I have enjoyed the hunt while playing ANY toon I want. You see, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, I only play my 'main' for endgame content and new content. The 'main' has been here since launch and has almost every PVEISH achievement there is, except for fishing and monster trophies. ZOS just recently made fishing worth doing. My main fishes, gets achievements AND mats to add my alts in leveling. But why would you make me go farm these monsters on the 'main'? I have enjoyed doing it on my alts, who get to contribute to the monster hunt. It doesn't make me feel that if I want this achievement, I have to "grind" senselessly. There is enough mechanics that make people feel the "grind" already. Why deepen such a play style? My main has it half done by a method of an ENTIRE YEAR, and now some trivial behaviour changes this. There is an argument that some of these type achievements should be account wide, but the go around to the debate is about to "fixed". I can only urge you to revisit this.
For a game that suggests "play as you want", why do I have to change my play style comfort zone EVERY content update?
This is a small complaint, in the grand scheme of things, but for the love of the Divines, LEAVE THE BANKING/TRADING PORTION ALONE. STOP MAKING ME PLAY ON CERTAIN TOONS FOR TRIVIAL REASONS!!!

This is why it is desperate and a must to make achievements, or at least certain collect achievements, account wide.

WandaMey

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is why it is desperate and a must to make achievements, or at least certain collect achievements, account wide.

i would hate that too.
the biggest problem here is that drops ain't distributed equally depending on the faction. I may find 5 skeleton trophies on my AD toon and several nix hounds trophies on my EP toon by the time i level them and none the other way around

Right now, i can feel like i'm playing smart (yeah i don't need much) by not eating them right away and bank them. I also like to give the extra ones to my alts and not having it completly spoonfed.
Right now, it's really a good system. pleasant, no frustration no rush and hard enough to give a feeling of accomplishement when you add the item to the journal.

If there is a change to do, it's to make them bankable on console.

Leandor

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to provide a little insight and clarification on the upcoming changes to collectibles.

Currently, collectible trophies work differently for those obtained via fishing versus those obtained via monster kills. Fishing trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon item pick-up, whereas monster-kill trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon use. This difference was resulting in a high volume of bug reports and feedback in which players thought the collectible trophies were broken. That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform. That’s where the upcoming changes come in.

So what do those changes consist of? Here’s a short list:

• All collectible trophies will now grant the associated achievement when the item is first looted.
• Monster trophies will always drop off appropriate level monsters for your character. A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for.
• Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please clarify whether "always a place you can go" refers respectively includes any of the following:

• Trials
• DSA or vDSA
• normal or veteran group dungeons
• dolmens
• Cyrodiil

In case any of the trophies drops exclusively in one of the locations listed above after reaching veteran content, please amend your statement by clearly saying that the collectible achievements are now considered group only content.

EDIT: clarification.

UrQuan

It's simple. An audit was done to make sure that a character of any level in any alliance has a place they can go to chase any monster collectible. That means that ZOS must have a list of where all of those places are. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom please post that list so that we can see where all of those places are. As long as they're all reasonable places to farm the mobs in question, that will make everyone happy.