The big problem with the Bolt Escape nerf

BigTone

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again. Even as a sorc myself, it can get frustrating to see another sorc do this to me. The biggest problem in my opinion is that this punishes the sorcs who use the Streak morph as a cc and damaging ability. I often use streak to stun or finish off a low health target, or to hit one of those damn rollerblades.

The easy fix to this is to not implement the 50% increase if and only if Streak causes damage. For the ball of lightning morph, implement the 50% increase if and only if you do not absorb a projectile. If these changes are made, then you do not punish those who use the ability for its utility but you still punish those who spam it as an escape. I often enjoy streaking into the zergball over and over again to try and take them off course. I enjoy streaking back and forth through someone to finish them off.

If the point of the nerf is to not have so many sorcs porting away from battle, then why not implement the above?

Domander

um..... it's the same cost as live until the third use... how many times do you need to spam streak to stun? Use a few abilities in between.

It's such a good change. Sorcs will still use it to escape, but they won't be bolting across all of cyrodiil like they do now.

OtarTheMad

I completely agree because that is how I use Streak... for the damage. It was a good skill to streak through a zerg to stun and damage then once or twice so that your group could heal up or get some resources back but now I can't otherwise I won't have the magicka to put up a good offensive or defense.

Honestly I will probably just take skills points out of the ability and use Mist Form instead since I am still a vamp.

Bromburak

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

RinaldoGandolphi

Bromburak wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

Just like i get Nightblades that don't know how to play their class without Cloak, and Templars who don't know how to play their class without healing or Jabs, DK's that don't know how to play their class without Scales....if your trying to make a point, I fail to see one.

Bromburak

Of course not because you one of these clones.

maxlacab16_ESO

BigTone wrote: »

They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

If a Sorc doesn't want to fight, let him/her BE all they want!
Who cares?
Go kill someone else!




Oh, I guess I forgot... Killing Sorcs is just much easier than killing other classes. My bad...

Erock25

Meant to post this here initially....

I'm a sorc main and I get why people don't like to see a sorc spam BE 10 plus times to completely disengage. The problem for me is not every sorc is set up to BE that many times. This nerf hurts the stamina and non-max regen sorcs the most. I like the stacking cost penalty but I think it needs to be focused more on sorcs that cast 5 + BE in a row. If the cost increase is changed to a stacking 25 percent, you're still using the same amount of magicka as live for 4 uses. It's the 5th, 6th,ect use that really will sap your magicka. 4 uses of BE takes you 60m, which isn't that far considering the speed of roll dodge + speed boost + bow passive and the fact that the longest range abilities are like 40m plus. Changing the penalty to stacking 25 percent also lets a stam sorc BE a little easier, which I think everyone can agree is not a bad change

c0rp

Agree...the sorcs who use streak as damage mechanic are getting completely hosed again. I have lost all faith in eric wrobel and pretty much everyone else at zos too to be honest.

The ONLY THING this nerf accomplishes, is sorcs will stop using BE, spec vamp (with less drawbacks now) and use Mist. Grats, you made another skill pointless Eric....

RinaldoGandolphi

c0rp wrote: »

Agree...the sorcs who use streak as damage mechanic are getting completely hosed again. I have lost all faith in eric wrobel and pretty much everyone else at zos too to be honest.

The ONLY THING this nerf accomplishes, is sorcs will stop using BE, spec vamp (with less drawbacks now) and use Mist. Grats, you made another skill pointless Eric....

Yup

I only spammed Bolt to run from zergs, otherwise i used my BOL for defense so i could cast against Crushing Shock users. Going Vamp and Mist Form will probably be the no brainer choice now.

OtarTheMad

Bromburak wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

I can only really speak for myself but for me it's not about not knowing how to adjust and play the class with these changes. It's the inconvenience of adjusting a style of play that you have perfected. I use it as a damage ability. So when I am one of one, these changes don't change my play much at all honestly since I can just space out my streaks but when I facing a zerg with a group it does. So now instead of using Streak as a stun/damage combo to try and counter the zerg taking a keep I can just play more defense and put Mist form in my bar instead. Maybe put Encase on my bar to keep them still, I can always adjust... I assume so can other players but it's just the inconvenience of having to play more passively in situations where you used to be able to be more aggressive. You'd be surprised how much laying down Daedric Mines and Fire Rune on top of a keep and then Streak thru the zerg of 30 enemies maybe two or three times can give your small group a chance to defend it.

As for shields, I typically didn't shield stack anyway. I just use Hardened Ward so reduced shields don't mean a ton to me.

Valnas

i want them to add this to every ability in the game so we can all quit

Snit

c0rp wrote: »

The ONLY THING this nerf accomplishes, is sorcs will stop using BE, spec vamp (with less drawbacks now) and use Mist. Grats, you made another skill pointless Eric....

Exactly my plan. Combined with the reduction in fire damage vulnerability, this is the way to go now.

Erondil

Honnestly I don't see why people were crying about BE spam. If the sorc spam BE to run away it two cases :
1) He runs away from a zerg. That means he is heavily outnumbered, he is one of the rare players still running solo/smallscale... he should be punished because he refuses to join the zerg? Ok, you're a part of this zerg chasing the sorc, he BE away and you lost 20 AP... QQ
2) He runs away from a 1v1 fight. Well its a *** that desnt want to fight you, you should take it as a compliment. He doesnt get AP if he always run away, so why qq?

Bromburak

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

I can only really speak for myself but for me it's not about not knowing how to adjust and play the class with these changes. It's the inconvenience of adjusting a style of play that you have perfected. I use it as a damage ability.

Yes , but someone like you is able to adjust his play style again as well.
But those random build clones out there want to play "immortal type" of glas canons.

We always have the choice between survival or glas canon, but both roles with top peaks are inacceptable. There must always be a trade of , a sacrifice as a hybrid and thats what these guys will never understand because they expect god like hybrids what ever they play.

Ley

I just thing 50% stacking increases is a bit much, 33% stacking increases would have felt a bit less like a kick in the...

Dalglish

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly I don't see why people were crying about BE spam. If the sorc spam BE to run away it two cases :
1) He runs away from a zerg. That means he is heavily outnumbered, he is one of the rare players still running solo/smallscale... he should be punished because he refuses to join the zerg? Ok, you're a part of this zerg chasing the sorc, he BE away and you lost 20 AP... QQ
2) He runs away from a 1v1 fight. Well its a *** that desnt want to fight you, you should take it as a compliment. He doesnt get AP if he always run away, so why qq?

This pretty much sums everything wrong with these forums and the feedback/combat team, people come and qq. The game is being built and constantly changed to suit the zerg. Proximity Det was billed as the zerg buster, but is the main skill for many of the zergs running today.

Regarding gameplay, Bolt Escape has never been a problem apart from when you could use it while running a scroll. The initial 50% increase nerf it got was appopriate.

The problem right now is the builds which allow for almost infinite resources. This is down to the poorly designed champion system. ZoS remove softcaps and expect people not to abuse/focus on one facet of a build is extremely short sighted.

ZoS simply are nerfing almost every other type of sorc build apart from the actual builds that are abusing it, sorcs will still abuse this they will just be a bit more creative about it e.g. bolt escape 2-3 times > mist form 'til cooldown > bolt escape.

Xsorus

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly I don't see why people were crying about BE spam. If the sorc spam BE to run away it two cases :
1) He runs away from a zerg. That means he is heavily outnumbered, he is one of the rare players still running solo/smallscale... he should be punished because he refuses to join the zerg? Ok, you're a part of this zerg chasing the sorc, he BE away and you lost 20 AP... QQ
2) He runs away from a 1v1 fight. Well its a *** that desnt want to fight you, you should take it as a compliment. He doesnt get AP if he always run away, so why qq?

Because if you've pvped at all in any MMO at any point you'd know what would happen when a Sorc does this, or a Thief in GW2, or any stealther in pretty much every MMO to date.

The second you're fighting someone else they're back on ya.... So you either kill him then, or fight him in a 2v1 later.

EVERY single MMO has worked this way.

Bromburak

Dalglish wrote: »

ZoS simply are nerfing almost every other type of sorc build apart from the actual builds that are abusing it, sorcs will still abuse this they will just be a bit more creative about.

Well thats one of the reasons why BE is nerfed, why stamina reg is nerfed while blocking and why you lose a lot of Dps when you want to spam dodge. Because all survival related skills especially when you are DD are meant to be as a helpful "oh ***" ability and not abusing it as perma spammable ability.

Thats the issue, in ESO everything is over the top because apparently designers don't know how to balance hybrid flexibility properly since trinity was banned from modern MMOs. Of course its complex and always a long balancing process when it comes to PvP but thats what happens when you are trying to support a class system with hardcore hybrids being able to solo everything.

This will never work because you cannot merge PvE mechanics with PvP and assume its balanced.
This is totally insane.

Maulkin

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly I don't see why people were crying about BE spam. If the sorc spam BE to run away it two cases :
1) He runs away from a zerg. That means he is heavily outnumbered, he is one of the rare players still running solo/smallscale... he should be punished because he refuses to join the zerg? Ok, you're a part of this zerg chasing the sorc, he BE away and you lost 20 AP... QQ
2) He runs away from a 1v1 fight. Well its a *** that desnt want to fight you, you should take it as a compliment. He doesnt get AP if he always run away, so why qq?

So true.

And a Sorc is not the only one that can escape. I don't use detect pots cause I use stamina pots (not that this will make a difference from next patch), so magicka NBs get away from me all the time with Cloak.

All stamina builds can get away from me by switching to bow and doing a: Speedbuff -> Roll dodge -> Sprint. I can't keep up with that.

So what's the big deal?

I find it shocking that they effectively render useless the one escape skill from a class that is pigeon-holed into playing a light armor build with no reliable self heals.

@AbraXuSeXile, wrong time to level a Sorc mate. Looks like you've been rumbled. Good luck on leveling your NB.

Dalglish

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly I don't see why people were crying about BE spam. If the sorc spam BE to run away it two cases :
1) He runs away from a zerg. That means he is heavily outnumbered, he is one of the rare players still running solo/smallscale... he should be punished because he refuses to join the zerg? Ok, you're a part of this zerg chasing the sorc, he BE away and you lost 20 AP... QQ
2) He runs away from a 1v1 fight. Well its a *** that desnt want to fight you, you should take it as a compliment. He doesnt get AP if he always run away, so why qq?

Because if you've pvped at all in any MMO at any point you'd know what would happen when a Sorc does this, or a Thief in GW2, or any stealther in pretty much every MMO to date.

The second you're fighting someone else they're back on ya.... So you either kill him then, or fight him in a 2v1 later.

EVERY single MMO has worked this way.

I don't get why this should result in a nerf.

When they bolt away, you chase and they run you in to more enemies, thats your bad for chasing him into a situation that suits them. Just sounds like a valid combat tactic to me.

Bromburak wrote: »

Dalglish wrote: »

ZoS simply are nerfing almost every other type of sorc build apart from the actual builds that are abusing it, sorcs will still abuse this they will just be a bit more creative about.

Well thats one of the reasons why BE is nerfed, why stamina reg is nerfed while blocking and why you lose a lot of Dps when you want to spam dodge. Because all survival related skills especially when you are DD are meant to be as a helpful "oh ***" ability and not abusing it as perma spammable ability.

Thats the issue, in ESO everything is over the top because apparently designers don't know how to balance hybrid flexibility properly since trinity was banned from modern MMOs.

If this is how its going, anything that moves you around the combat zone should also get the bolt escape treatment, gap closers etc. It should be difficult to escape but it should also be dangerous to chase.

Xsorus

Dalglish wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly I don't see why people were crying about BE spam. If the sorc spam BE to run away it two cases :
1) He runs away from a zerg. That means he is heavily outnumbered, he is one of the rare players still running solo/smallscale... he should be punished because he refuses to join the zerg? Ok, you're a part of this zerg chasing the sorc, he BE away and you lost 20 AP... QQ
2) He runs away from a 1v1 fight. Well its a *** that desnt want to fight you, you should take it as a compliment. He doesnt get AP if he always run away, so why qq?

Because if you've pvped at all in any MMO at any point you'd know what would happen when a Sorc does this, or a Thief in GW2, or any stealther in pretty much every MMO to date.

The second you're fighting someone else they're back on ya.... So you either kill him then, or fight him in a 2v1 later.

EVERY single MMO has worked this way.

I don't get why this should result in a nerf.

When they bolt away, you chase and they run you in to more enemies, thats your bad for chasing him into a situation that suits them. Just sounds like a valid combat tactic to me.

Bromburak wrote: »

Dalglish wrote: »

ZoS simply are nerfing almost every other type of sorc build apart from the actual builds that are abusing it, sorcs will still abuse this they will just be a bit more creative about.

Well thats one of the reasons why BE is nerfed, why stamina reg is nerfed while blocking and why you lose a lot of Dps when you want to spam dodge. Because all survival related skills especially when you are DD are meant to be as a helpful "oh ***" ability and not abusing it as perma spammable ability.

Thats the issue, in ESO everything is over the top because apparently designers don't know how to balance hybrid flexibility properly since trinity was banned from modern MMOs.

If this is how its going, anything that moves you around the combat zone should also get the bolt escape treatment, gap closers etc. It should be difficult to escape but it should also be dangerous to chase.

I'm not talking about chasing, If you let the sorc go..He's going to come back while you're fighting someone else..Because he's got massive movement advantage and can do that....this has happened in every single MMO where a class had a very easy escape mechanic.

its pretty much damned if you do, damned if ya don't.

That is why Bolt Escape is being changed...

Valnas

I'm not talking about chasing, If you let the nb go..He's going to come back while you're fighting someone else..Because he's got massive movement advantage and can do that....this has happened in every single MMO where a class had a very easy escape mechanic.

its pretty much damned if you do, damned if ya don't.

That is why Cloak is being changed...

Jahosefat

Snit wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

The ONLY THING this nerf accomplishes, is sorcs will stop using BE, spec vamp (with less drawbacks now) and use Mist. Grats, you made another skill pointless Eric....

Exactly my plan. Combined with the reduction in fire damage vulnerability, this is the way to go now.

The second rise of the vampires.... lol when I heard the change this was my first solution as well.

tist

Its no big deal. With the fire dmg nerf to vampires the new eso twilight saga will emerge.

Bromburak

Dalglish wrote: »

If this is how its going, anything that moves you around the combat zone should also get the bolt escape treatment, gap closers etc. It should be difficult to escape but it should also be dangerous to chase.

Well that was the Design idea behind global available lines like Vampire.
In theory ...

Another example that implementations are far away from the original plan ...

ToRelax

Bromburak wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

That's so easy to say, hiding behind an anonymous forum nickname...

Francescolg

People are endlessly exaggerating. Most sorcerers didn't bolt escape more than 2-3 times, afterwards, they checked their back, or popped a mine, or they bolt escaped back into battle depending on the situation.

Double or Triple-bolt escaping is still working as we know it. You still have skills that make you 40% faster and even roll dodge, if you really need to get away. If it is more than 2 players chasing you, and this is not just my opinion, you deserve to die if you can't kill them or CC.

Bromburak

ToRelax wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

That's so easy to say, hiding behind an anonymous forum nickname...

Finally you start thinking to understand the reversed quote.

ToRelax

Bromburak wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

I get the idea behind why ZoS is nerfing Blot Escape again. I get why people who don't know how to kill a sorc qq on the forums and in zone chat. They don't like that a sorc can just port away from danger over and over again.

And I get why people who don't know how to play their sorc without Bolt Escape and reduced shields qq on the forums and in zone chat.

They like the idea being a glass canon without glas.

Get over it!

That's so easy to say, hiding behind an anonymous forum nickname...

Finally you start thinking to understand the reversed quote.

I probably shouldn't be surprised, but I am still disappointed.
I challenge you to duel me on PTS then.
Templates, same class, same gear, same amount of CP.
Otherwise you better stfu about other player's skill level.

Bromburak

Too bad you misunderstand everything. I was totally wrong with assuming that you have start thinking. I take it back.