Put the Imperial Edition and "Adventurer Pack" Benefits behind the Subscription

Gidorick

EDIT: I changed the title to "Adventurer Pack" Since that is what they call it in the Crown Store. I also changed some of the words in the body since, Explorer's Pack = Adventurer's Pack.

ZOS should remove from the Crown Store and dismantle the Imperial Edition upgrade and Adventurer Pack and include some of the benefits from the Imperial and Adventurer Pack Explorer's Pack behind the Subscription.

Don't change the benefits for existing players that bought the Imperial Edition, preordered the game, or bought the items in the Crown Store, but remove the purchasable items from the Crown Store and require future players that didn't pre-order the game or buy the Imperial Edition to subscribe to gain these benefits.

To accommodate this, in the Crown Store, ZOS should sell the different tier subscriptions directly from the Crown Store for crowns. This way all players will see the benefits of each tier subscription, which should include:

• Create any race in any alliance: Players should be able to create any race in any alliance if they are a subscriber, but shouldn't lose access to those characters they created if they unsubscribe.
• Create an imperial: Players should be able to create an Imperial in any alliance if they are a subscriber, but shouldn't lose access to the characters they created if they unsubscribe.
• Ability to purchase the Imperial Horse: ZOS should sell the Imperial Horse for the same amount they are selling the other horses, 900C, but only to those that subscribe.
• Ability to purchase the Pledge of Mara: The Pledge of Mara should be able to be purchased by Subscribers and should bind to specific characters. Only one Pledge of Mara can be "active" at a time PER CHARACTER. If a player wants another Pledge of Mara, they should have to junk their current pledge. There should be no limit to how many times a player can purchase this item.
• Monthly Subscriber Treasure Maps: Each month, Subscribers should get at least 1 map (1 in each faction would be nice) that leads players to treasures. These treasures could include special subscriber items.

These benefits should be available to those who Subscribe to ESO and not otherwise purchasable. This would go a long way into adding some value to the subscriptions.

I added these suggestions the OP if this thread, which has more suggestions: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1

Curragraigue

I wish that ZOS hadn't linked the play any race for any alliance to pre-orders only but they have and they have been very clear that it will be the only way that it is offered. So while I personally would not mind if they did offer this to everyone, at this stage it would probably do more harm than good if they did because the moaners would have a field day with it.

Right or wrong I think ZOS will have to stick with what they have have. The Imperial Edition at least can be bought in the crown store so any subscriber can use their allocation of crowns to buy it.

I like the idea of treasure maps being given to subscribers.

Gidorick

Curragraigue wrote: »

I wish that ZOS hadn't linked the play any race for any alliance to pre-orders only but they have and they have been very clear that it will be the only way that it is offered. So while I personally would not mind if they did offer this to everyone, at this stage it would probably do more harm than good if they did because the moaners would have a field day with it.

Right or wrong I think ZOS will have to stick with what they have have. The Imperial Edition at least can be bought in the crown store so any subscriber can use their allocation of crowns to buy it.

I like the idea of treasure maps being given to subscribers.

Is there a new box for the PC being released for the Tamriel Unlimited launch? If so, if you pre-order THAT will you get the Explorer's Pack?

Or you could just buy an Explorer's Pack somewhere else. I hear they're still available.

newtinmpls

Gidorick wrote: »

The following benefits should be available to those who Subscribe to ESO and not otherwise purchasable.

[*]Ability to purchase the Pledge of Mara: The Pledge of Mara should be able to be purchased by Subscribers. Only one Pledge of Mara can be "active" at a time. If a player wants another Pledge of Mara, they should have to junk their current pledge. There should be no limit to how many times a player can purchase this item.

I would want this item to be "one Pledge per CHARACTER can be active at a time" since I think it's perfectly within good role-playing (and enjoyable) to be playing two different characters married to two different characters (and yes, I'm avoiding discussing any poly relationships).

Gidorick

newtinmpls wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The following benefits should be available to those who Subscribe to ESO and not otherwise purchasable.

[*]Ability to purchase the Pledge of Mara: The Pledge of Mara should be able to be purchased by Subscribers. Only one Pledge of Mara can be "active" at a time. If a player wants another Pledge of Mara, they should have to junk their current pledge. There should be no limit to how many times a player can purchase this item.

I would want this item to be "one Pledge per CHARACTER can be active at a time" since I think it's perfectly within good role-playing (and enjoyable) to be playing two different characters married to two different characters (and yes, I'm avoiding discussing any poly relationships).

100% agree and I was thinking this way... but didn't clarify. I fixed the OP and my other thread that includes many more suggestions for Subscriber Benefits. Thanks for pointing that out.

More suggestions: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions

Curragraigue

Gidorick wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

I wish that ZOS hadn't linked the play any race for any alliance to pre-orders only but they have and they have been very clear that it will be the only way that it is offered. So while I personally would not mind if they did offer this to everyone, at this stage it would probably do more harm than good if they did because the moaners would have a field day with it.

Right or wrong I think ZOS will have to stick with what they have have. The Imperial Edition at least can be bought in the crown store so any subscriber can use their allocation of crowns to buy it.

I like the idea of treasure maps being given to subscribers.

Is there a new box for the PC being released for the Tamriel Unlimited launch? If so, if you pre-order THAT will you get the Explorer's Pack?

Or you could just buy an Explorer's Pack somewhere else. I hear they're still available.

I already have it but yes I assume that you can get it by both of those means. I just have friends who didn't pre-order, don't like the look of the sites selling the separate explorer's packs and don't want to have to pay for another copy of the same game.

Given past ES games a lot of people come in with an expectation that they can play any race. Would just like to see more options for those people.

newtinmpls

Well technically you can play any nine of the ten races; but you don't have a choice of where to play them.

Gidorick

Curragraigue wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

I wish that ZOS hadn't linked the play any race for any alliance to pre-orders only but they have and they have been very clear that it will be the only way that it is offered. So while I personally would not mind if they did offer this to everyone, at this stage it would probably do more harm than good if they did because the moaners would have a field day with it.

Right or wrong I think ZOS will have to stick with what they have have. The Imperial Edition at least can be bought in the crown store so any subscriber can use their allocation of crowns to buy it.

I like the idea of treasure maps being given to subscribers.

Is there a new box for the PC being released for the Tamriel Unlimited launch? If so, if you pre-order THAT will you get the Explorer's Pack?

Or you could just buy an Explorer's Pack somewhere else. I hear they're still available.

I already have it but yes I assume that you can get it by both of those means. I just have friends who didn't pre-order, don't like the look of the sites selling the separate explorer's packs and don't want to have to pay for another copy of the same game.

Given past ES games a lot of people come in with an expectation that they can play any race. Would just like to see more options for those people.

lol... yea... they seem shady. I'd use a pre-paid card on those sites.

The option would be a subscription. I am of the thought that b2p/f2p is understandable but players need to understand that the devs need to make money too and without going pay to win... these are the kinds of things they can put behind a subscription wall to try to generate regular cash flow.

MrGhosty

Can't say I agree with you, these "benefits" diminish the already little value a sub offers to current, existing subscribers as many either purchased imperial edition right away or upgraded later for the cheap horse. So where would the value be for those of us who have already proven to be consistent customers? Treasure maps? The treasue maps couldn't actually offer any "valuable" armor or weapons as that would be classified as paid to win. If they weren't worth it then you just get a piece of tat each month most will likely trash.

I agree with you that the current perks offered for ESO Plus don't really justify the sub but we shall just have to wait and see what they can offer up which straddles the balance between value and fairness.

technohic

Why do people keep trying to gate things to the subscription? For cripe sake; if you don't think a sub is worth it as is, then don't sub. If you do, then do sub.

What it really is, is just people clinging to this being a sub only game. Its over. Deal with it.

Gidorick

MrGhosty wrote: »

Can't say I agree with you, these "benefits" diminish the already little value a sub offers to current, existing subscribers as many either purchased imperial edition right away or upgraded later for the cheap horse. So where would the value be for those of us who have already proven to be consistent customers? Treasure maps? The treasue maps couldn't actually offer any "valuable" armor or weapons as that would be classified as paid to win. If they weren't worth it then you just get a piece of tat each month most will likely trash.

I agree with you that the current perks offered for ESO Plus don't really justify the sub but we shall just have to wait and see what they can offer up which straddles the balance between value and fairness.

Check out my full list of suggestions @MrGhosty‌

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1

AshySamurai

I don't like this idea. I preordered IE so I have both bonuses. Now you want to make it absolutely wasted money.

Gidorick

technohic wrote: »

Why do people keep trying to gate things to the subscription? For cripe sake; if you don't think a sub is worth it as is, then don't sub. If you do, then do sub.

What it really is, is just people clinging to this being a sub only game. Its over. Deal with it.

None of these benefits would benefit me in any way whatsoever. Some of us can see beyond what we want to try to envision the bigger picture.

Subscribers provide ZOS with a (somewhat) steady stream of revenue. If there are 200,000 subscribers, ZOS knows they will get about 3 million a month, no matter if they update the Crown Store or not. Without those subscribers ZOS relies solely on the cash shop and must release content in the Crown Store frequently enough to attempt to generate revenue as regularly as a subscription.

It's no secret that modern MMOs benefit from a cash shop more than they do a subscription model, but many of these models INLCUDE subscriptions.

I'll let John Smeldy (of DCUO) explain this:
"We don't rely heavily on whales. I wish we could, but we don't. The reason we don't is that a large part of our business is still subscription-based. The way we see the world is that we want it to be 'free-to-play your way.' If you want to spend just a little bit of money, you can, and people who want to chase really expensive stuff can do that as well. But you don't need any of it for gameplay. Having a heavy subscriber base means that we don't have to rely on whales."
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/john-smedley-interview

This is where adding value to subscriptions becomes important. The less ZOS relies on subscriptions, the more they have to try to squeeze out of the cash shop. If the cash shop becomes strapped and that stops producing money, and they don't have a heavy subscription base, then we will start to see things like awesome Crown Store specific gear, stat boosts, lootboxes,... all the things we don't want to see. So it would behoove ZOS, ESO players, and ESO itself for there to be as many subscribers as possible.

But how does ZOS entice players into subscribing? After all, they've paid for the game, shouldn't they just be able to play as much as they want now? Sure... but subscribing would be better!

If ZOS wants to keep and even increase subscription numbers, they need to add perceived value to the subscriptions. These are features that don't give players an overt advantage in game over Potential Subscribers, but there is a perceived advantage or at least perceivable reasons a player would want to be a subscriber.

I want ESO to succeed, no matter what revenue model it is under.

Gidorick

AshySamurai wrote: »

I don't like this idea. I preordered IE so I have both bonuses. Now you want to make it absolutely wasted money.

So did I, mate. This suggestion is for the benefit of the game... not me, well not directly.

People would sub for these bonuses. That means more money in ZOS' pocket which means more money to make ESO... and in THAT way I would benefit.

AshySamurai

Gidorick wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

I don't like this idea. I preordered IE so I have both bonuses. Now you want to make it absolutely wasted money.

So did I, mate. This suggestion is for the benefit of the game... not me, well not directly.

People would sub for these bonuses. That means more money in ZOS' pocket which means more money to make ESO... and in THAT way I would benefit.

There is still no excuse for action like this. You can't just steal customer's money. A lot of players bought IE. Also a lot of players preordered this game. And ZOS said that playing any race in any alliance will be only preorder bonus. That make people preorder game. Yeah, sure, they can change their mind in any moment, but in this case people will really go crazy. I support monthly treasure maps idea (I saw it some time ago), but to steal current bonuses is like an account nerf. These players didn't preordered, so I don't think they should get explorer's pack bonuses. You can still buy it on ebay (some say it's still available in Wal-Mart). Want it - search for it.

There are other ways to increase subscription value rather than taking away the bought bonuses from customers (actually you rob people).

Soulshine

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

Gidorick

AshySamurai wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

I don't like this idea. I preordered IE so I have both bonuses. Now you want to make it absolutely wasted money.

So did I, mate. This suggestion is for the benefit of the game... not me, well not directly.

People would sub for these bonuses. That means more money in ZOS' pocket which means more money to make ESO... and in THAT way I would benefit.

There is still no excuse for action like this. You can't just steal customer's money. A lot of players bought IE. Also a lot of players preordered this game. And ZOS said that playing any race in any alliance will be only preorder bonus. That make people preorder game. Yeah, sure, they can change their mind in any moment, but in this case people will really go crazy. I support monthly treasure maps idea (I saw it some time ago), but to steal current bonuses is like an account nerf. These players didn't preordered, so I don't think they should get explorer's pack bonuses. You can still buy it on ebay (some say it's still available in Wal-Mart). Want it - search for it.

There is other ways to increase subscription value rather than taking away the bought bonuses from customers (actually you rob people).

So you think no player should never be able to get the any race, any alliance through ZOS?

Interesting.

The whole "robbing" people argument is a bit dramatic. So is the claim that this would be a nerf. ZOS have said MANY things that they are now going back on, and there's no way this would take away from your ability to play any race in any alliance. This wouldn't give other players any advantage over any other player.

I'm going with the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" argument here.

Gidorick

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

Soulshine

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

That is not what I meant. I mean you are talking basically about alienating a segment of the players for monetization of the game. Which yeah, is the reality we are in now. But there will be many IE owners who will never see this as acceptable, even if the bonuses were expensive for new players to get.

Do you really want to open that door?

Even if you did, you would have to attach a way signficantly higher crown value on top of the sub requirment for this, especially if canceling the sub later does not affect it. So it would in effect be a "whale of a purchase" on par with IE. (whale pun intended ) As such it might make it sting less for some people... doubt it though, really.

Gidorick

Soulshine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

That is not what I meant. I mean you are talking basically about alienating a segment of the players for monetization of the game. Which yeah, is the reality we are in now. But there will be many IE owners who will never see this as acceptable, even if the bonuses were expensive for new players to get.

Do you really want to open that door?

Even if you did, you would have to attach a way signficantly higher crown value on top of the sub requirment for this, especially if canceling the sub later does not affect it. So it would in effect be a "whale of a purchase" on par with IE. (whale pun intended ) As such it might make it sting less for some people... doubt it though, really.

I don't think the 'hurt feelings' of IE buyers should be a factor here. Right now the "whale" purchase is 2100C. They WILL be offering Imperial Edition upgrades in the crown store so they are already doing this. So yes, I'm suggesting this price be "lowered" but it's one of those gamble things. There would be people that would sub one month, create their Imperial character, then unsub... but what's the likeliness of those players subbing one more time later down the road to create a second Imperial character? If they did that, they would have spent more than the 2100C right there. How many MORE players would try out a sub if they are able to create an exclusive Imperial race? How many of those players would just keep the subscription after that for a few months? It's actually a pretty safe gamble to make.

The REAL issue with people loosing their minds over this concept is the any-race any alliance. That is NOT available in the Crown Store right now. Companies have sold pre-order bonuses after the fact before and I hate to split straws like this but... ZOS never said that being able to play in any race in any alliance would only ever be offered in the explorer's pack (at least not that I'm aware). I'm not suggesting the explorers pack be given to Subscribers, I'm suggesting the any race any alliance ability be part of the subscription. I admit this is splitting straws... there's a lot of that going on right now.

I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol.

AshySamurai

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

That is not what I meant. I mean you are talking basically about alienating a segment of the players for monetization of the game. Which yeah, is the reality we are in now. But there will be many IE owners who will never see this as acceptable, even if the bonuses were expensive for new players to get.

Do you really want to open that door?

Even if you did, you would have to attach a way signficantly higher crown value on top of the sub requirment for this, especially if canceling the sub later does not affect it. So it would in effect be a "whale of a purchase" on par with IE. (whale pun intended ) As such it might make it sting less for some people... doubt it though, really.

I don't think the 'hurt feelings' of IE buyers should be a factor here. Right now the "whale" purchase is 2100C. They WILL be offering Imperial Edition upgrades in the crown store so they are already doing this. So yes, I'm suggesting this price be "lowered" but it's one of those gamble things. There would be people that would sub one month, create their Imperial character, then unsub... but what's the likeliness of those players subbing one more time later down the road to create a second Imperial character? If they did that, they would have spent more than the 2100C right there. How many MORE players would try out a sub if they are able to create an exclusive Imperial race? How many of those players would just keep the subscription after that for a few months? It's actually a pretty safe gamble to make.

The REAL issue with people loosing their minds over this concept is the any-race any alliance. That is NOT available in the Crown Store right now. Companies have sold pre-order bonuses after the fact before and I hate to split straws like this but... ZOS never said that being able to play in any race in any alliance would only ever be offered in the explorer's pack (at least not that I'm aware). I'm not suggesting the explorers pack be given to Subscribers, I'm suggesting the any race any alliance ability be part of the subscription. I admit this is splitting straws... there's a lot of that going on right now.

I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol.

Actually, they did. They said before release that any race in any alliance will be limited offer only for those who preorder. Also, ZOS can't change mind on every word they said (well, they can, but it would be a disaster). They broke few major promises already.
And your OP sounds like you take aways all IE and preorder benefits and put it all into sub bonuses.

Gidorick

AshySamurai wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

That is not what I meant. I mean you are talking basically about alienating a segment of the players for monetization of the game. Which yeah, is the reality we are in now. But there will be many IE owners who will never see this as acceptable, even if the bonuses were expensive for new players to get.

Do you really want to open that door?

Even if you did, you would have to attach a way signficantly higher crown value on top of the sub requirment for this, especially if canceling the sub later does not affect it. So it would in effect be a "whale of a purchase" on par with IE. (whale pun intended ) As such it might make it sting less for some people... doubt it though, really.

I don't think the 'hurt feelings' of IE buyers should be a factor here. Right now the "whale" purchase is 2100C. They WILL be offering Imperial Edition upgrades in the crown store so they are already doing this. So yes, I'm suggesting this price be "lowered" but it's one of those gamble things. There would be people that would sub one month, create their Imperial character, then unsub... but what's the likeliness of those players subbing one more time later down the road to create a second Imperial character? If they did that, they would have spent more than the 2100C right there. How many MORE players would try out a sub if they are able to create an exclusive Imperial race? How many of those players would just keep the subscription after that for a few months? It's actually a pretty safe gamble to make.

The REAL issue with people loosing their minds over this concept is the any-race any alliance. That is NOT available in the Crown Store right now. Companies have sold pre-order bonuses after the fact before and I hate to split straws like this but... ZOS never said that being able to play in any race in any alliance would only ever be offered in the explorer's pack (at least not that I'm aware). I'm not suggesting the explorers pack be given to Subscribers, I'm suggesting the any race any alliance ability be part of the subscription. I admit this is splitting straws... there's a lot of that going on right now.

I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol.

Actually, they did. They said before release that any race in any alliance will be limited offer only for those who preorder. Also, ZOS can't change mind on every word they said (well, they can, but it would be a disaster). They broke few major promises already.
And your OP sounds like you take aways all IE and preorder benefits and put it all into sub bonuses.

I actually looked for this. I could only find where they said that the "Explorers Pack" would be a preorder bonus, which includes:



They could even sell the pet in the crown store. This wouldn't be changing their mind. The Explorer's Pack would still be a preorder exclusive item. Did they ever say that the items in the explorers pack would never be offered again? If so, I'd agree that the any-race any alliance shouldn't be added to subs. I do agree they shouldn't go back on everything they said.

Soulshine

Buying an upgrade has always been an option. There is a reason the cost of the upgrade was set where it is. Buying a one shot bonus like what you are talking about is quite different.

I do not agree that alienating players (any segment of players) is ever a good idea and should always be a factor when considering monetization of items; it is definitely something to be avoided, especially when you can get creative and find far better ways to make money (and more of it at that), which do not entail splitting hairs in the first place.

Gidorick

Soulshine wrote: »

Buying an upgrade has always been an option. There is a reason the cost of the upgrade was set where it is. Buying a one shot bonus like what you are talking about is quite different.

I do not agree that alienating players (any segment of players) is ever a good idea and should always be a factor when considering monetization of items; it is definitely something to be avoided, especially when you can get creative and find far better ways to make money (and more of it at that), which do not entail splitting hairs in the first place.

They chose to segment and alienate players when they chose to go Buy to Play. This ship has sailed and the fact that there are strong feelings about this suggestion (don't worry, that's all it will ever be) shows that this would a desirable addition to the subscription.

MrGhosty

"I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol."

How would something like that be any "dirtier" than taking something originally used to encourage early adopters which was stated at the time would be truly exclusive not just a timed thing and making it easily available to anyone who subbed?

Yes ZOS has been making a habit of going back on their word, but if it continues to happen they will lose what little consumer faith is left, and on top of that begin alienating a potentially brand new audience. Seems like a good way to ensure poor sub performance.

As I said before, i'm all for providing more value and encouraging continued subscribers but this definitely isn't the way.

AshySamurai

Gidorick wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

That is not what I meant. I mean you are talking basically about alienating a segment of the players for monetization of the game. Which yeah, is the reality we are in now. But there will be many IE owners who will never see this as acceptable, even if the bonuses were expensive for new players to get.

Do you really want to open that door?

Even if you did, you would have to attach a way signficantly higher crown value on top of the sub requirment for this, especially if canceling the sub later does not affect it. So it would in effect be a "whale of a purchase" on par with IE. (whale pun intended ) As such it might make it sting less for some people... doubt it though, really.

I don't think the 'hurt feelings' of IE buyers should be a factor here. Right now the "whale" purchase is 2100C. They WILL be offering Imperial Edition upgrades in the crown store so they are already doing this. So yes, I'm suggesting this price be "lowered" but it's one of those gamble things. There would be people that would sub one month, create their Imperial character, then unsub... but what's the likeliness of those players subbing one more time later down the road to create a second Imperial character? If they did that, they would have spent more than the 2100C right there. How many MORE players would try out a sub if they are able to create an exclusive Imperial race? How many of those players would just keep the subscription after that for a few months? It's actually a pretty safe gamble to make.

The REAL issue with people loosing their minds over this concept is the any-race any alliance. That is NOT available in the Crown Store right now. Companies have sold pre-order bonuses after the fact before and I hate to split straws like this but... ZOS never said that being able to play in any race in any alliance would only ever be offered in the explorer's pack (at least not that I'm aware). I'm not suggesting the explorers pack be given to Subscribers, I'm suggesting the any race any alliance ability be part of the subscription. I admit this is splitting straws... there's a lot of that going on right now.

I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol.

Actually, they did. They said before release that any race in any alliance will be limited offer only for those who preorder. Also, ZOS can't change mind on every word they said (well, they can, but it would be a disaster). They broke few major promises already.
And your OP sounds like you take aways all IE and preorder benefits and put it all into sub bonuses.

I actually looked for this. I could only find where they said that the "Explorers Pack" would be a preorder bonus, which includes:



They could even sell the pet in the crown store. This wouldn't be changing their mind. The Explorer's Pack would still be a preorder exclusive item. Did they ever say that the items in the explorers pack would never be offered again? If so, I'd agree that the any-race any alliance shouldn't be added to subs. I do agree they shouldn't go back on everything they said.

Q: If I pre-order or pre-purchase the game during the Early Access period (between March 30th & April 3rd), will I receive the Explorer’s Pack?

A: If you wish to get the Explorer’s Pack pre-order benefit, you must either pre-purchase at the ESO online store or pre-order from your favorite retailer prior to official game launch.

EARLY ACCESS AND LAUNCH FAQ (sorry for caps, I just copied it and past here).


What was the Explorer’s Pack?
When players pre-purchased the game through the ESO Store or pre-ordered at any participating retailer, they were then eligible to receive the Explorer's Pack, a digital bundle that included:

The ability for the player's characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose
The Scuttler, a tiny but loyal vanity pet
Bonus treasure maps that will lead the player to loot
It is no longer possible to obtain the Explorer's Pack for PC/Mac as a pre-order or pre-purchase bonus. It will, however, be available to players who pre-order a console edition (PS4 or Xbox One) of The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE STORE FAQ

So, yeah. I hope that will be enough.

Soulshine

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Buying an upgrade has always been an option. There is a reason the cost of the upgrade was set where it is. Buying a one shot bonus like what you are talking about is quite different.

I do not agree that alienating players (any segment of players) is ever a good idea and should always be a factor when considering monetization of items; it is definitely something to be avoided, especially when you can get creative and find far better ways to make money (and more of it at that), which do not entail splitting hairs in the first place.

They chose to segment and alienate players when they chose to go Buy to Play. This ship has sailed and the fact that there are strong feelings about this suggestion (don't worry, that's all it will ever be) shows that this would a desirable addition to the subscription.

So why deliberately look for ways to make that worse? If you take people commenting negatively on this idea as proof it is desirable I'd say happy to disagree with that kind of sentiment.

Gidorick

MrGhosty wrote: »

"I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol."

How would something like that be any "dirtier" than taking something originally used to encourage early adopters which was stated at the time would be truly exclusive not just a timed thing and making it easily available to anyone who subbed?

Yes ZOS has been making a habit of going back on their word, but if it continues to happen they will lose what little consumer faith is left, and on top of that begin alienating a potentially brand new audience. Seems like a good way to ensure poor sub performance.

As I said before, i'm all for providing more value and encouraging continued subscribers but this definitely isn't the way.

I'd venture to guess NEW players will feel MORE alienated by having no way to add the any race any alliance feature to their account than by having to subscribe to add the feature.

It's funny... in one thread I suggest that something as trivial as a TITLE be given to us pre buy to play subscribers and people go ape-**** over that because it's not fair to have a title that people have no way to get later.

In THIS thread I suggest that a feature that cannot be obtained later be added so players can take advantage of it from here on out and people hate the idea because some things need to remain exclusive to those that got it when it was available.

Soulshine

Gidorick wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

"I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol."

How would something like that be any "dirtier" than taking something originally used to encourage early adopters which was stated at the time would be truly exclusive not just a timed thing and making it easily available to anyone who subbed?

Yes ZOS has been making a habit of going back on their word, but if it continues to happen they will lose what little consumer faith is left, and on top of that begin alienating a potentially brand new audience. Seems like a good way to ensure poor sub performance.

As I said before, i'm all for providing more value and encouraging continued subscribers but this definitely isn't the way.

I'd venture to guess NEW players will feel MORE alienated by having no way to add the any race any alliance feature to their account than by having to subscribe to add the feature.

It's funny... in one thread I suggest that something as trivial as a TITLE be given to us pre buy to play subscribers and people go ape-**** over that because it's not fair to have a title that people have no way to get later.

In THIS thread I suggest that a feature that cannot be obtained later be added so players can take advantage of it from here on out and people hate the idea because some things need to remain exclusive to those that got it when it was available.

Welcome to marketing

Gidorick

AshySamurai wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the ideas in your other thread are much better than these, which do not exactly seem like any kind of incentive that would encourage long term subscribing to the game, especially considering that two of the above are things which one could easily get and keep after subscribing one day to the game, buying them in the store, and then canceling the sub.

Most people subscribing have fairly proven that they didn't care as much about horses, maps, and mara rings as they did about the issues over the pre-order bonuses of the Imperial and the Any Race Any Alliance. If you trivialize that even further by basically allowing people to buy one of these benefits for a 15 buck one month sub and then dumping the sub, I'd say you just put out yet another way to insult IE pre-order owners of this game even more than they already have been.

Or are you suggesting these things have a crown cost representing a certain dollar amount plus the sub price they pay?

PS: John Smeldy is full of poo.

I wasn't suggesting this but I like it! Have the any-race and Imperial be a TOKEN that can be bought in the crown store by subscribers only... 500C to create an Imperial... 500C to play in a different alliance.

That's a really interesting idea.

That is not what I meant. I mean you are talking basically about alienating a segment of the players for monetization of the game. Which yeah, is the reality we are in now. But there will be many IE owners who will never see this as acceptable, even if the bonuses were expensive for new players to get.

Do you really want to open that door?

Even if you did, you would have to attach a way signficantly higher crown value on top of the sub requirment for this, especially if canceling the sub later does not affect it. So it would in effect be a "whale of a purchase" on par with IE. (whale pun intended ) As such it might make it sting less for some people... doubt it though, really.

I don't think the 'hurt feelings' of IE buyers should be a factor here. Right now the "whale" purchase is 2100C. They WILL be offering Imperial Edition upgrades in the crown store so they are already doing this. So yes, I'm suggesting this price be "lowered" but it's one of those gamble things. There would be people that would sub one month, create their Imperial character, then unsub... but what's the likeliness of those players subbing one more time later down the road to create a second Imperial character? If they did that, they would have spent more than the 2100C right there. How many MORE players would try out a sub if they are able to create an exclusive Imperial race? How many of those players would just keep the subscription after that for a few months? It's actually a pretty safe gamble to make.

The REAL issue with people loosing their minds over this concept is the any-race any alliance. That is NOT available in the Crown Store right now. Companies have sold pre-order bonuses after the fact before and I hate to split straws like this but... ZOS never said that being able to play in any race in any alliance would only ever be offered in the explorer's pack (at least not that I'm aware). I'm not suggesting the explorers pack be given to Subscribers, I'm suggesting the any race any alliance ability be part of the subscription. I admit this is splitting straws... there's a lot of that going on right now.

I WAS going to suggest that characters in other alliances become unusable if you unsubscribe but that just seemed kind of dirty. lol.

Actually, they did. They said before release that any race in any alliance will be limited offer only for those who preorder. Also, ZOS can't change mind on every word they said (well, they can, but it would be a disaster). They broke few major promises already.
And your OP sounds like you take aways all IE and preorder benefits and put it all into sub bonuses.

I actually looked for this. I could only find where they said that the "Explorers Pack" would be a preorder bonus, which includes:



They could even sell the pet in the crown store. This wouldn't be changing their mind. The Explorer's Pack would still be a preorder exclusive item. Did they ever say that the items in the explorers pack would never be offered again? If so, I'd agree that the any-race any alliance shouldn't be added to subs. I do agree they shouldn't go back on everything they said.

Q: If I pre-order or pre-purchase the game during the Early Access period (between March 30th & April 3rd), will I receive the Explorer’s Pack?

A: If you wish to get the Explorer’s Pack pre-order benefit, you must either pre-purchase at the ESO online store or pre-order from your favorite retailer prior to official game launch.

EARLY ACCESS AND LAUNCH FAQ (sorry for caps, I just copied it and past here).


What was the Explorer’s Pack?
When players pre-purchased the game through the ESO Store or pre-ordered at any participating retailer, they were then eligible to receive the Explorer's Pack, a digital bundle that included:

The ability for the player's characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose
The Scuttler, a tiny but loyal vanity pet
Bonus treasure maps that will lead the player to loot
It is no longer possible to obtain the Explorer's Pack for PC/Mac as a pre-order or pre-purchase bonus. It will, however, be available to players who pre-order a console edition (PS4 or Xbox One) of The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE STORE FAQ

So, yeah. I hope that will be enough.

Again... they are saying that the Explorer's Pack is a Digital Bundle that is only available as a preorder bonus... They aren't saying that the features in the bundle will never be available in any other capacity. They are saying that THAT bundle is exclusive not the items IN the bundle.

Like I said.. splitting hairs... but that's the way these things work.

Gidorick

Soulshine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Buying an upgrade has always been an option. There is a reason the cost of the upgrade was set where it is. Buying a one shot bonus like what you are talking about is quite different.

I do not agree that alienating players (any segment of players) is ever a good idea and should always be a factor when considering monetization of items; it is definitely something to be avoided, especially when you can get creative and find far better ways to make money (and more of it at that), which do not entail splitting hairs in the first place.

They chose to segment and alienate players when they chose to go Buy to Play. This ship has sailed and the fact that there are strong feelings about this suggestion (don't worry, that's all it will ever be) shows that this would a desirable addition to the subscription.

So why deliberately look for ways to make that worse? If you take people commenting negatively on this idea as proof it is desirable I'd say happy to disagree with that kind of sentiment.

What? Five people against thousands that would subscribe? These days on this forum I expect ANY post to get some people who are against or speak negatively against what OP says. Especially where the payment model is concerned.