ghengis_dhan wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Apparently, sweeping changes are more appealing changes to make than fixing bugs that impact strategic character builds and gameplay.

shebali wrote: »

The devs in this game should never be able to work on a game again. There is a move that does this. Fix it.

It never ceases to amaze me how little people understand software development. Not all bugs are easy to find or fix. If a bug has been mentioned multiple times, it is on their list of things to fix, and they have a team working on it. If you don't believe me, check out the patch notes.

C, C++, T-SQL software developer since 1995.

What exactly is the conclusion you are trying to draw with this post?
Coding is hard, so we should be permissive when sweeping nerfs are made instead of fixing bugs with skills that are already programmed to perform the necessary functions for solving the issue?
Well, you have my sympathies if you find your job too difficult to perform correctly; however, that does nothing to mitigate my objections that implementing a mass nerf before fixing a bug that would solve the issue itself is not the way to go.

If the patch notes listed this change as something temporary that will be removed once the Radiant Magelight bug is fixed, would not have personally objected.
Instead, someone apparently went "bugs are hard to find, I'm going to change this other coding instead."

ZeroTheCat wrote: »

Again, try using stam/medium armor builds for a while in pvp. I dare you. Then we can talk again...

Oh, you.
Orc DK. Attributes in health, enchants in stamina. 5/2 Med/Hvy. Bow/SS. Try again.

Whaddya mean!? Now that this is done that does fix the skill doesn't it? lol Oooh Zeni.

Huntler wrote: »

ZeroTheCat wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

ZeroTheCat wrote: »

Nice straw man, dude. This is not about "insta gibbing". It's about destroying another way of playing the game. You obviously haven't played stamina/medium armor builds since you are having a hard time understanding the effects off this change. I guess we all are supposed to wear dresses and carry sticks to be viable, huh.

...

Argue semantics all you want, but your version of 'playing the game" as it currently stands involves doing so much initial damage that the fight is done before the target knows you exist. Stealth is supposed to provide an advantage, not decide the entire fight.

No, playing my version of the game is using medium armor and stamina and using burst to HAVE A CHANCE of killing someone. Like I said. The only way I can end a fight before someone knows you exist is if they are sitting on a horse with their back turned to you. That can anyone do without stealth so that is besides the point here. I will quote a person from another thread:

"..that means Stamina will be borderline useless in PvP since it'll lack the burst damage that distinguished it from other playstyles, while still not having the heals/dmg shields of magicka builds (which will also be better for burst damage after the patch)."

Again, try using stam/medium armor builds for a while in pvp. I dare you. Then we can talk again...

Youtube nightblade pvp videos for the last month, several have been posted here of NBs in medium armor and using stamina builds basically insta gibbing people for the entire video, if you claim you can't do that the problem is with your build.

link?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay everyone, simmer down. We understand that Radiant Magelight isn't working properly - it hasn't been for a while - and we are looking into fixing this as soon as we can.

As a whole, we felt like the burst damage from stealthed attacks were too high, so this won't be changing even when Radiant Magelight gets fixed. But remember, these can and will still crit!

We encourage you to hop on the PTS and try this out before it hits the Live megaservers. We'd love to know what you think and how it feels.

Gina, I am sorry. But, the move works as others have stated. There is some buggyness around it, so once thats gets fixed that is fine. But, you guys are doing way too much without and real results. You are already adding more HP which helps along with nerfing the amount of damage you can preload which new changes to snipe. Burst damage from stealth is fine which the changes you have made. A few more tweaks without messing up sneak damage is the way to go.

I feel you Team lead and core team don't really look at PVP which some of the changes they come up with.

Blanket fixes are BAD. Tweak the moves. Lower sneak damage on Snipe or remove it and put the base damage higher.

Christ, I literally have posted on several threads detailing the bug with radiant magelight. Do I need to hold everyone's hand here? I'm all about bringing the gankers stream of tears, so I guess I will.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136482/radiant-magelight-sneak-attack-damage-reduction-bug#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136664/radiant-mage-light-needs-to-be-fixed-instead-of-sneak-attack-nerf#latest

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay everyone, simmer down. We understand that Radiant Magelight isn't working properly - it hasn't been for a while - and we are looking into fixing this as soon as we can.

As a whole, we felt like the burst damage from stealthed attacks were too high, so this won't be changing even when Radiant Magelight gets fixed. But remember, these can and will still crit!

We encourage you to hop on the PTS and try this out before it hits the Live megaservers. We'd love to know what you think and how it feels.

Well....not really.

oren74 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay everyone, simmer down. We understand that Radiant Magelight isn't working properly - it hasn't been for a while - and we are looking into fixing this as soon as we can.

As a whole, we felt like the burst damage from stealthed attacks were too high, so this won't be changing even when Radiant Magelight gets fixed. But remember, these can and will still crit!

Sorry but this is a big mistake. I've been a fan for too long, dealing with a dark cloak bugs, and just ineffectiveness of a NB as a PvP'er getting owned by DKs, Sorcs, and Temps...I occasionally could get a Sorc or Temp that was a bit slow to react with ambush and veiled strike, death stroke, impale combo...but I can see DKs and Sorcs kicking butt in Cyrodiil while I just enjoy the challenge.

The vamp nerf I'm fine with, the buffs of the other lines...fine, blazing shield, bolt escape, general DK awesomeness...fine.

But to hit the NBs with a nerf...and stealth damage in a game that already allows everyone to stealth? That's crazy. Who's idea was this? Probably the same guy or gal who came up with enchanters and bonedancers in DAoC.

Those two are your go to classes for something that's overpowered?

... Stealth attacks grant a bonus damage... dark cloak and invisibility do not grant a from stealth crit damage bonus. Also has the bug of not critting from the front of a mob been fixed yet?
If you have a bow and are at 35 yards, if the mob is facing you and your are hidden. the attack will not crit. I reported that in beta, but since I went magicka never knew if it was fixed.

Well here's my 2c about this whole debacle...

Damage done from stealth with bow needed a nerf. I don't think it's rational that a weapon which with the right sets and passives can hit you from the safety of 40+ meters, should front load so much damage. If you had the right spec, the Snipe+Light Attack+Venom Arrow combo could wreck a player while not exposing the ganker to any real danger. That's not on. Don't forget Snipe cast is getting hugely reduced too, so some changes were necessary for Bow.

I also don't buy into the whole "if I don't kill with opening attack, I'm dead" story. Especially with the new patch that's about to hit. If the target does not go down with your bow attack, switch to a 2H and enter the fight from the advantage of having dealt huge initial damage.

The nerf to stealth comes at the same time as some good stamina buffs to other weapons, 2H in particular which now hits harder and has a good stamina heal too. Don't be a one dimensional player, expecting to just kill by going through a simple rotation. At the moment a lot of players are complaining that the only way to play stamina is from stealth. I don't think that's necessarily true, but more to the point, I think ZOS want to change this perception. They want stamina fighters to be capable of open combat instead of being pigeon-holed into stealth attacker role.

However in principle, I think melee stealth strikes need to have a higher stealth damage modifier (bonus) than ranged attacks. Both because it has a small similarity to real life, but more importantly in gaming because it rewards players who have better positioning and take higher risks by getting close to their prey.

I think to summarise, in my opinion they should have reduced the stealth damage of ranged attacks and fixed Radiant Magelight first. They should have left it at that for a month or so to assess the impact on the game. Too much change too quickly is not a good idea. If they found gankers were still doing more damage than they should, they should have proceeded to nerf in small increments of 5%, until they decided it was balanced.

Update 1.5 currently has too much change in its PVP Combat Mechanics and that leaves a lot of players twitchy with uncertainty. In any case, less doom and gloom please and more pew-pew to actually assess how these changes affect you. Thanks..

Rylana wrote: »

2 hander out of stealth is actually worse, just has more "risk" involved with it so none of the scared little nightblade players want to use it cause it exposes them to harm.

To clarify, you think 2H is worse in open combat in update 1.5 compared to 1.4?

TL;DR of most posts in this thread.

I DON'T LIKE CHANGE! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADAPT!

On a more constructive note, as many have said before in the thread, this is needed. The state of stealth attacks and assassinations right now is a little crazy. At release people bullied and beat ZOS into making Nightblades the single ultimate one rotation kill class and then still had the gall to complain Nightblades are too weak.

As someone who plays a Nightblade and doesn't use stealth/assassin/sneak attacks as my main bread and butter I can tell you there are other ways to play them. It's actually more fun to have a fight for your ganks rather then a single rotation win every time. Not that anyone complaining will actually believe that.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

...
The nerf to stealth comes at the same time as some good stamina buffs to other weapons, 2H in particular which now hits harder and has a good stamina heal too. Don't be a one dimensional player, expecting to just kill by going through a simple rotation. At the moment a lot of players are complaining that the only way to play stamina is from stealth. I don't think that's necessarily true, but more to the point, I think ZOS want to change this perception. They want stamina fighters to be capable of open combat instead of being pigeon-holed into stealth attacker role.
...

Do you know what happpens if I switch to 2H and jump into the enemy zerg with medium armor and withouth shild stacking? Do you know what will happen after patch 1.5? Exactly the same thing... No stamina heal in the World is going to save you. The option I have is to stay at range with bow. Now the damage I do with Focused aim, from stealth, from behind, is 9 times of 10 around 200-400 when I attack an enemy zerg. Sometimes less! That´s with soft capped wep damage and stamina. I'm not even kidding! Between shield stacking, buffs, reflective skills and other "unknown" game mechanics my damage is insanely low. Now you want to nerf that 30% more... I don't understand the logic behind this. Especially when there are far worse inbalances in this game!