What SHOULD and what SHOULDN'T be in the Crown Store

UrQuan · January 2015

OK, so a lot of people feel strongly one way or the other about the announcement this morning.

Personally I'm fine with it, depending on what is and what isn't available for purchase for Crowns. Basically I don't want ESO to become a pay to win game. What I want to see is a system where the paid subscription for ESO Plus members costs no more than the current subscription cost, and if you subscribe you never feel like you need to spend more than that to keep up with anyone. To me that depends entirely on how the Crown store is set up.

I started this thread so that we have a place where we can say what we think is OK to be available for purchase in the Crown store, and what we think isn't OK to be available for purchase in the Crown store.

In my opinion, these things should be available for purchase in the Crown store:

1. Items currently available for purchase from vendors (those aren't unbalancing in any way - heck, aside from sometimes provisioning ingredients they're really not worth buying for in-game gold, let alone Crowns that cost you real money - note that I don't PvP, so I'm not really sure if things that can currently be purchased with alliance points should or shouldn't be available for purchase with Crowns, but I'd lean towards probably not)
2. Mounts that are no more powerful than horses (different is fine, but they should be balanced against horses - horses are already available for purchase with cash, and that hasn't been unbalancing)
3. Vanity pets and other purely cosmetic items (but please keep them things that fit in the ES setting - I don't want anime or cartoon junk in ESO)
4. Barber shop services (people have been asking for ways to change the way their characters look for a long time)
5. DLC that is available to anyone with an ESO Plus membership for free (this is no different than paying a subscription and expecting that your sub payment goes towards continued development of new content)
6. Maybe motifs and recipes. The common ones for sure, but I'm undecided on whether purple and gold motifs and blue and purple recipes should be available in the Crown store.
7. A service that gives you the 10% bonuses that ESO Plus members get for a set period of time (non-stackable with itself or with the bonuses you get as an ESO Plus member - if this is available it should be relatively expensive in Crowns so that there's actually still a point to having an ESO Plus membership).
8. Additional character slots (you can effectively get 8 additional slots by spending money to buy another copy of the game anyway - this way you can spend money to do it while keeping them all on the same account)
9. Name changes (zero impact to any pay to win concerns)
10. Dye packs

Things I don't want to see in the Crown store:

1. Gear that can currently only be obtained through rare drops (dropped set items, etc)
2. Mounts that give a substantial advantage over a horse (such as flying mounts)
3. DLC that is not available for free to ESO Plus members
4. Anything that gives bonuses to earned XP, earned gold, etc that is beyond what ESO Plus members get, or that stacks with the ESO Plus bonuses
5. Things that allow you to unlock special chests and such to get good gear
6. A max level character (or anything that lets you buy a level, or whatever)
7. Skill points or attribute points or champion points
8. Any items used in crafting that cannot already be purchased at vendors (trait stones, raw mats, etc)

Nothing else comes to mind right now. Anyone else have thoughts on what should be purchasable and what shouldn't?

Edit: there's a thread in the developer discussion forum here for feedback on exactly this topic.

dharbert · January 2015

At first I thought that the potions and soul gems being in the store would cut into my business, but then they said those items will be inferior to player crafted, so I'm ok with that.

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2015

This is a good list. But maybe add like selling some potions but like a stack of 10 or 20. Kinda tiered of having to farm dungeons for potions just to use half of them trying to clear said dungeon. :-p ....... Wait wait wait .... Is one of the costumes like the nord hero armor from the trailers?

.... Or maybe shoulder capes :-D

UrQuan · January 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

This is a good list. But maybe add like selling some potions but like a stack of 10 or 20. Kinda tiered of having to farm dungeons for potions just to use half of them trying to clear said dungeon. :-p

Hmm, you farm dungeons for potions? Do you do a lot of PvP? I ask because I don't (I'm basically entirely a PvE player), and I find that I almost never need to use potions, so farming for them sounds odd to me... But I think maybe PvP players generally use potions more?

UrQuan · January 2015

Oh, and I thought of one other thing that affects how I feel about what should and shouldn't be in the Crown store: drop rates. If they tweak the drop rates on various common things (like basic potions) in order to drive up demand for those items in the Crown store, then my list of what is and what isn't available for purchase there changes drastically...

tinythinker · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

6. Maybe motifs and recipes. The common ones for sure, but I'm undecided on whether purple and gold motifs and blue and purple recipes should be available in the Crown store.

Oh, no, no, everyone gets to search through wardrobes, desks, and nightstands for those.

I just wonder though how far subscribers "Crowns" will go in the store. They *have* to be counting on it not being enough to get all the basic goodies people will want.

Azzuria · January 2015

Say what you like about Rift, but their F2P model wasn't game-breaking. There is very little in the store that can't be gained by playing and all the best stuff is ONLY available by playing.

If I'm a subscriber and get all the DLCs for free, when my subscription lapses, will I be required to -buy- the DLCs using the free Crowns given by ZOS as a subscription gift?

UrQuan · January 2015

Azzuria wrote: »

Say what you like about Rift, but their F2P model wasn't game-breaking. There is very little in the store that can't be gained by playing and all the best stuff is ONLY available by playing.

I never played Rift, but I've heard the same thing from a number of people. If that's truly the case, then I hope ZOS takes a good long look at how Rift does it, and takes notes.

Azzuria wrote: »

If I'm a subscriber and get all the DLCs for free, when my subscription lapses, will I be required to -buy- the DLCs using the free Crowns given by ZOS as a subscription gift?

If you want to keep playing in the DLC zones, yes. You do get to keep any loot you gained from those zones without buying the DLC though:

FAQ wrote:

Do I lose all items and rewards earned from DLC if my ESO Plus membership ends?
No. You will lose access to the DLC areas and quests should your membership lapse (unless you purchase the DLC separately in the Crown Store), but you will keep all items and rewards earned through the content.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Once the people buy the boxes after Xbox launch the money will run out for Zenimax and the only way to make money is by adding more and more to the "cash shop" sorry crown shop

Kilandros · January 2015

I wouldn't mind a name change. There, I said it.

MornaBaine · January 2015

NOTHING should be available in the Store that is NOT also available in the game for in-game gold.

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

This is a good list. But maybe add like selling some potions but like a stack of 10 or 20. Kinda tiered of having to farm dungeons for potions just to use half of them trying to clear said dungeon. :-p

Hmm, you farm dungeons for potions? Do you do a lot of PvP? I ask because I don't (I'm basically entirely a PvE player), and I find that I almost never need to use potions, so farming for them sounds odd to me... But I think maybe PvP players generally use potions more?

Just giving examples of why the should sell potions cause i go half and half on pvp and pve and well half the time i always get that templar healer who surprise doesn't know how to heal and as a tank I kinda need to keep my health and magicka up for taunts. So be nice to have a steady supplie of potion........ Still asking if we can haz shoulder capes.

UrQuan · January 2015

Kilandros wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a name change. There, I said it.

That's a good one, and I'm going to add it to my list. It's not something I'd take advantage of myself, though, as I spend a lot of time coming up with lore-friendly names for my characters that I like

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

This is a good list. But maybe add like selling some potions but like a stack of 10 or 20. Kinda tiered of having to farm dungeons for potions just to use half of them trying to clear said dungeon. :-p

Hmm, you farm dungeons for potions? Do you do a lot of PvP? I ask because I don't (I'm basically entirely a PvE player), and I find that I almost never need to use potions, so farming for them sounds odd to me... But I think maybe PvP players generally use potions more?

Just giving examples of why the should sell potions cause i go half and half on pvp and pve and well half the time i always get that templar healer who surprise doesn't know how to heal and as a tank I kinda need to keep my health and magicka up for taunts. So be nice to have a steady supplie of potion........

That's cool - I was just curious

Elsonso · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so a lot of people feel strongly one way or the other about the announcement this morning.

Personally I'm fine with it, depending on what is and what isn't available for purchase for Crowns. Basically I don't want ESO to become a pay to win game. What I want to see is a system where the paid subscription for ESO Plus members costs no more than the current subscription cost, and if you subscribe you never feel like you need to spend more than that to keep up with anyone. To me that depends entirely on how the Crown store is set up.

I started this thread so that we have a place where we can say what we think is OK to be available for purchase in the Crown store, and what we think isn't OK to be available for purchase in the Crown store.

In my opinion, these things should be available for purchase in the Crown store:

1. Items currently available for purchase from vendors (those aren't unbalancing in any way - heck, aside from sometimes provisioning ingredients they're really not worth buying for in-game gold, let alone Crowns that cost you real money - note that I don't PvP, so I'm not really sure if things that can currently be purchased with alliance points should or shouldn't be available for purchase with Crowns, but I'd lean towards probably not)
2. Mounts that are no more powerful than horses (different is fine, but they should be balanced against horses - horses are already available for purchase with cash, and that hasn't been unbalancing)
3. Vanity pets and other purely cosmetic items (but please keep them things that fit in the ES setting - I don't want anime or cartoon junk in ESO)
4. Barber shop services (people have been asking for ways to change the way their characters look for a long time)
5. DLC that is available to anyone with an ESO Plus membership for free (this is no different than paying a subscription and expecting that your sub payment goes towards continued development of new content)
6. Maybe motifs and recipes. The common ones for sure, but I'm undecided on whether purple and gold motifs and blue and purple recipes should be available in the Crown store.
7. A service that gives you the 10% bonuses that ESO Plus members get for a set period of time (non-stackable with itself or with the bonuses you get as an ESO Plus member - if this is available it should be relatively expensive in Crowns so that there's actually still a point to having an ESO Plus membership).
8. Additional character slots (you can effectively get 8 additional slots by spending money to buy another copy of the game anyway - this way you can spend money to do it while keeping them all on the same account)

Things I don't want to see in the Crown store:

1. Gear that can currently only be obtained through rare drops (dropped set items, etc)
2. Mounts that give a substantial advantage over a horse (such as flying mounts)
3. DLC that is not available for free to ESO Plus members
4. Anything that gives bonuses to earned XP, earned gold, etc that is beyond what ESO Plus members get, or that stacks with the ESO Plus bonuses
5. Things that allow you to unlock special chests and such to get good gear
6. A max level character (or anything that lets you buy a level, or whatever)
7. Skill points or attribute points or champion points
8. Any items used in crafting that cannot already be purchased at vendors (trait stones, raw mats, etc)

Nothing else comes to mind right now. Anyone else have thoughts on what should be purchasable and what shouldn't?

I agree except as noted above.

Barbershop. This should be free to everyone, or at least subscribers, and paid for with gold.

Motifs and Recipes. Under no circumstances should the cash shop tread on the guild stores. There needs to be an economy in the game that does not include Crowns.

Crown Paid % Bonuses. This is the reason to have the subscription. It should not be in the store. If you take away, or diminish, the reason to subscribe, no one will do it. Maybe that is what they will want since these bonus chits may be worth more to them than a subscription.

Additional character slots. This would best be a subscriber item and not available elsewhere, but that causes issues for former subscribers.

Also, that list of things that you don't want to see... that is the wish list for the people that will flood into here. ZOS will eventually implement most, if not all, of those things in the list. It will take a level of restraint that they have yet to display in order to turn their back on that cash.

Eventually, ZOS will monetize the whole experience in an attempt to raise cash. They will justify each step, but step they will. The grass is always greener on the other side of that line that they promise never to cross. Maybe a little nudge of the line will be ok, right?

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2015

Go watch the Twitch Stream they have on all of this. Theyve already made their position clear on this.

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3711373

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Go watch the Twitch Stream they have on all of this. Theyve already made their position clear on this.

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3711373

ROFL... just like this game will never go F2P/B2P... Their position was really clear we will "TURN OFF THE SERVERS FIRST" before we remove the subscription model...

Destai · January 2015

Should be in store.
1. Dye packs.*
2. Crafting recipes *
3. Race changes (within faction).
4. DLC. Should be designed such that a pay-wall is not encountered in game.

Should not be in store.
1. Experience boosters of any kind.
2. Craftables such as potions.
3. Stat boosts of any kind
4. Armor/weapons

* Buy in store or find in game. No detriment to drop rate if applicable.

UrQuan · January 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Barbershop. This should be free to everyone, or at least subscribers, and paid for with gold.

Ideally I agree, but the fact is that it's not available currently, and it has no effect on game balance, so I'm fine with it being something that you buy with Crowns.

lordrichter wrote: »

Motifs and Recipes. Under no circumstances should the cash shop tread on the guild stores. There needs to be an economy in the game that does not include Crowns.

See and that's exactly why I said I wasn't sure about that item on my list. The common motifs and recipes go for very little gold in guild stores anyway, so I really don't think it matters if they're available in the Crown store - people will still list them for relatively low amounts, and people will still buy them if they feel like getting them and don't want to spend real money on them - mostly because everyone has enough gold on hand to buy them anyway. The rare ones, though, would likely disappear from the guild stores if they could be bought with Crowns.

lordrichter wrote: »

Crown Bonuses. This is the reason to have the subscription. It should not be in the store. If you take away, or diminish, the reason to subscribe, no one will do it. Maybe that is what they will want since these bonus chits may be worth more to them than a subscription.

You've hit on exactly why I feel that if this is available it should be expensive in terms of Crowns. There has to be an incentive to maintain a subscription.

lordrichter wrote: »

Additional character slots. This would best be a subscriber item and not available elsewhere, but that causes issues for former subscribers.

How so? You can already get this by spending money to buy another game account anyway, so I don't see why having it available for purchase with Crowns is a problem.

lordrichter wrote: »

Also, that list of things that you don't want to see... that is the wish list for the people that will flood into here. ZOS will eventually implement most, if not all, of those things in the list. It will take a level of restraint that they have yet to display in order to turn their back on that cash.

That's my fear, and I really hope you're wrong about it. Kind of my whole reason for posting this thread is to get people talking and maybe signal boost it so that ZOS understands what we do and don't want available, and what sort of things will make us quit playing if they can be bought.

tinythinker · January 2015

They are looking for feedback on what (not) to offer in the stores.

UrQuan · January 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

They are looking for feedback on what (not) to offer in the stores.

Oh, thanks for pointing me in that direction! I'll head over to post my thoughts in that thread.

UrQuan · January 2015

Destai wrote: »

Should be in store.
1. Dye packs.*

Agreed - I'm adding it to my list.

Destai wrote: »

4. Race changes (within faction).

Ehhh, I'm not of the opinion that race changes should ever be available. At all. That's the RPG player in me coming out, though. Your character is fundamentally your character, with a backstory that goes along with him/her. I know not everyone feels that way, though.

tonyglissonb14_ESO · January 2015

NO! to any combat consumable!

prototypefb · January 2015

ZOS confirmed BDSM stuff will be available on Crown shop(lost link so i can't prove it, sorry) along with doping vials.

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

Cash shop is meant to milk the players for every cent/dime/penny, whatever item seems likely to do so will end up in the store.

KiriX · January 2015

Agree except motifs and recipes

UrQuan · January 2015

tonyglissonb14_ESO wrote: »

NO! to any combat consumable!

Why? If it's not any better than the combat consumables currently available for purchase from vendors for gold, what difference does it make if it can also be purchased at the Crown store? As long as they don't remove those items from vendors so that they can only be purchased with Crowns. I mean, if it's no better than things you can already get with gold then having it available in the Crown store is truly just for convenience, doesn't give you any advantage for using real money, and doesn't compete with player crafters in the game economy (because their potions will be better).

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

Cash shop is meant to milk the players for every cent/dime/penny, whatever item seems likely to do so will end up in the store.

I'm not asking what you think will end up there, I'm asking what you think should end up there, and what you think shouldn't.

Tyr · January 2015

prototypefb wrote: »

ZOS confirmed BDSM stuff will be available on Crown shop(lost link so i can't prove it, sorry) along with doping vials.

Is that why they are getting the PEGI 18(mature) rating now lol?!

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2015

SHOULDER CAPE

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LonePirate · January 2015

I would like to see a lag-free, crash-free, high population version of Cyrodiil because it appears those of us in the PVP community will never receive that unless we pay for it. A functioning version of Cyrodiil was not included in my game purchase or monthly sub fees for some reason.

Buck · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Things I don't want to see in the Crown store:

1. Gear that can currently only be obtained through rare drops (dropped set items, etc)
2. Mounts that give a substantial advantage over a horse (such as flying mounts)
3. DLC that is not available for free to ESO Plus members
4. Anything that gives bonuses to earned XP, earned gold, etc that is beyond what ESO Plus members get, or that stacks with the ESO Plus bonuses
5. Things that allow you to unlock special chests and such to get good gear
6. A max level character (or anything that lets you buy a level, or whatever)
7. Skill points or attribute points or champion points
8. Any items used in crafting that cannot already be purchased at vendors (trait stones, raw mats, etc)

Why do some people not even see that it was a P2W model from the onset? Keeping the imperial race and horse etc behind a pay wall. And this change will make it more so when it's implemented.

Maybe when you get that PIG pet, with you fluff money, they'll already be selling you lip stick from the cash shop

UrQuan · January 2015

Buck wrote: »

Why do some people not even see that it was a P2W model from the onset? Keeping the imperial race and horse etc behind a pay wall. And this change will make it more so when it's implemented.

The Imperial race and horse being purchased with real money never made it P2W. The horse is worse than horses that can only be purchased with in-game gold, so it's nothing more than a convenience item. The Imperial race gets some nice bonuses, but not bonuses significant enough that you have much, if any, advantage over someone playing a different race. I've got characters of all 10 races, and I find the different racial passives to be interesting and useful, but no race has a big enough advantage in the passives to be the "OMG, you have to play this race."