What SHOULD and what SHOULDN'T be in the Crown Store

Buck · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

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Buck wrote: »

Why do some people not even see that it was a P2W model from the onset? Keeping the imperial race and horse etc behind a pay wall. And this change will make it more so when it's implemented.

The Imperial race and horse being purchased with real money never made it P2W. The horse is worse than horses that can only be purchased with in-game gold, so it's nothing more than a convenience item. The Imperial race gets some nice bonuses, but not bonuses significant enough that you have much, if any, advantage over someone playing a different race. I've got characters of all 10 races, and I find the different racial passives to be interesting and useful, but no race has a big enough advantage in the passives to be the "OMG, you have to play this race."

Having access to the Imperial race is an advantage over someone who never threw in that extra $20. It's as simple as one can play it and one cannot... Oh you get a free horse on each character and someone who didn't buy the Imperial edition would have to pay for each character to have a horse.... 42k compared to 1g how is that not a P2W? or P2Experience it all?

It has nothing to do with your thoughts about the imperials race and it's advantages or disadvantages, you pay for it you get it, you don't pay for it and you miss out on the option.

UrQuan · January 2015

Buck wrote: »

show previous quotes

UrQuan wrote: »

Buck wrote: »

Why do some people not even see that it was a P2W model from the onset? Keeping the imperial race and horse etc behind a pay wall. And this change will make it more so when it's implemented.

The Imperial race and horse being purchased with real money never made it P2W. The horse is worse than horses that can only be purchased with in-game gold, so it's nothing more than a convenience item. The Imperial race gets some nice bonuses, but not bonuses significant enough that you have much, if any, advantage over someone playing a different race. I've got characters of all 10 races, and I find the different racial passives to be interesting and useful, but no race has a big enough advantage in the passives to be the "OMG, you have to play this race."

Having access to the Imperial race is an advantage over someone who never threw in that extra $20. It's as simple as one can play it and one cannot... Oh you get a free horse on each character and someone who didn't buy the Imperial edition would have to pay for each character to have a horse.... 42k compared to 1g how is that not a P2W? or P2Experience it all?

It has nothing to do with your thoughts about the imperials race and it's advantages or disadvantages, you pay for it you get it, you don't pay for it and you miss out on the option.

That's not at all what pay to win is. P2W is when you have to spend real money to remain competitive. When the things you can buy don't give you a competitive advantage over people who don't buy them, then it's not P2W.

martinhpb16_ESO · January 2015

dharbert wrote: »

At first I thought that the potions and soul gems being in the store would cut into my business, but then they said those items will be inferior to player crafted, so I'm ok with that.

Eventually they will invent something else that gives a buff that you can use pots on top of. Not eating into your market but will be P2W esp for pvp

Holycannoli · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

4. Anything that gives bonuses to earned XP, earned gold, etc that is beyond what ESO Plus members get, or that stacks with the ESO Plus bonuses
5. Things that allow you to unlock special chests and such to get good gear

#4 is a staple of cash shops and #5 is fast becoming a staple. XP potions don't bother me anywhere near as much as lockboxes.

Buck · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

That's not at all what pay to win is. P2W is when you have to spend real money to remain competitive. When the things you can buy don't give you a competitive advantage over people who don't buy them, then it's not P2W.

I made a point that your ignoring just to make an obvious statement and over looking what I meant. Paying for it gives an advantage(.) The road it leads to is the same and semantics of what is considered an advantage or not, is not the point.

UrQuan · January 2015

Buck wrote: »

show previous quotes

UrQuan wrote: »

That's not at all what pay to win is. P2W is when you have to spend real money to remain competitive. When the things you can buy don't give you a competitive advantage over people who don't buy them, then it's not P2W.

I made a point that your ignoring just to make an obvious statement and over looking what I meant. Paying for it gives an advantage(.) The road it leads to is the same and semantics of what is considered an advantage or not, is not the point.

By your twisted definition any game with any DLC is P2W. I'm sorry that you have your own personal definition of P2W, but that's not what everyone else means when they say it.

It's only P2W if it gives you a competitive advantage. That's the key word. The reason it's the key word is because of the W in P2W. If the advantage that it gives you isn't a competitive advantage, then it's not helping you win.

darthbelanb14_ESO · January 2015

Why do people always bring up XP boosts as do nots? How does some one gaining XP faster than some one else directly affect their enjoyment of the game? It doesn't make sense. How would you even know I had an XP boost? Seems there are a lot more important things to worry about than an XP boost.

Buck · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

By your twisted definition any game with any DLC is P2W. I'm sorry that you have your own personal definition of P2W, but that's not what everyone else means when they say it.

It's only P2W if it gives you a competitive advantage. That's the key word. The reason it's the key word is because of the W in P2W. If the advantage that it gives you isn't a competitive advantage, then it's not helping you win.

Buck wrote: »

The road it leads to is the same

What part of that is so twisted?
42k x 8 players = 336k
(vs)
1g x 8 players = 8g

nah your right that's just twisted and I should go lay down. There's no competitive advantage there for an extra $20. My point is so stupid to think that extra gold is somehow an "competitive" advantage. I didn't say anything about DLC but thanks for slipping it into the logic of explaining my warped view and to skew the point in a different direction - and not at all what I was saying and explaining. well done lol

Sorry the concept is so hard to grasp and the semantics are getting in the way of understanding my examples of P2W - but whatever I really don't care.

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

Should and shouldn't? In a cash shop? Whatever will increase revenue will get in there at some point.

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

show previous quotes

Buck wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

That's not at all what pay to win is. P2W is when you have to spend real money to remain competitive. When the things you can buy don't give you a competitive advantage over people who don't buy them, then it's not P2W.

I made a point that your ignoring just to make an obvious statement and over looking what I meant. Paying for it gives an advantage(.) The road it leads to is the same and semantics of what is considered an advantage or not, is not the point.

By your twisted definition any game with any DLC is P2W. I'm sorry that you have your own personal definition of P2W, but that's not what everyone else means when they say it.

It's only P2W if it gives you a competitive advantage. That's the key word. The reason it's the key word is because of the W in P2W. If the advantage that it gives you isn't a competitive advantage, then it's not helping you win.

Ok, I'll bite, so DLC zone drops a rare item that can't be obtained anywhere else and is superior to them, that is a competitive advantage.

Melian · January 2015

The thing is, the bonuses ESO plus members get are themselves something that shouldn't be sold for real money. XP and crafting bonuses? That's P2W.

I don't object to cash shops for cosmetic things like mounts (with the same stats), pets, and costumes, but:
a) it won't be limited to that. Consider how stingy they've been with bag and bank space, for instance - wanna bet that won't be in the crown shop?
b) even selling cosmetic stuff sucks if the cash shop becomes the only source of anything that looks interesting - which it probably will.

UrQuan · January 2015

Buck wrote: »

What part of that is so twisted?
42k x 8 players = 336k
(vs)
1g x 8 players = 8g

nah your right that's just twisted and I should go lay down. There's no competitive advantage there for an extra $20.

No, there isn't a competitive advantage. Ignoring for a second that your math is completely wrong (most likely intentionally so in order to try to make your point seem valid: here's a hint, it's 17K x 8 characters, not 42K x 8 characters), it's still not a competitive advantage. Why? Because a horse is just a convenience. You don't need a horse at all to be competitive unless you're concerned about being able to go as fast as possible in Cyrodil, and in that case you don't want the 1 gold horse, because it's not competitive.

Buck wrote: »

I didn't say anything about DLC but thanks for slipping it into the logic of explaining my warped view and to skew the point in a different direction - and not at all what I was saying and explaining. well done lol

Really? You said:

Buck wrote: »

Having access to the Imperial race is an advantage over someone who never threw in that extra $20. It's as simple as one can play it and one cannot... Oh you get a free horse on each character and someone who didn't buy the Imperial edition would have to pay for each character to have a horse.... 42k compared to 1g how is that not a P2W? or P2Experience it all?

It has nothing to do with your thoughts about the imperials race and it's advantages or disadvantages, you pay for it you get it, you don't pay for it and you miss out on the option.

So by your definition if there's any part of the game that you can only experience by paying extra for it, then it's P2W, even if it's not something that helps you with the W part of P2W, because you've decided that P2W actually means P2Experience it all (even though nobody else uses that definition). So what is DLC? It's additional content that you buy and download. If you don't pay extra for it, then you don't get to experience it. You said that if there's something you don't get to experience without paying, then the game is P2W. So any game with DLC is automatically P2W by your definition.

UrQuan · January 2015

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

show previous quotes

UrQuan wrote: »

Buck wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

That's not at all what pay to win is. P2W is when you have to spend real money to remain competitive. When the things you can buy don't give you a competitive advantage over people who don't buy them, then it's not P2W.

I made a point that your ignoring just to make an obvious statement and over looking what I meant. Paying for it gives an advantage(.) The road it leads to is the same and semantics of what is considered an advantage or not, is not the point.

By your twisted definition any game with any DLC is P2W. I'm sorry that you have your own personal definition of P2W, but that's not what everyone else means when they say it.

It's only P2W if it gives you a competitive advantage. That's the key word. The reason it's the key word is because of the W in P2W. If the advantage that it gives you isn't a competitive advantage, then it's not helping you win.

Ok, I'll bite, so DLC zone drops a rare item that can't be obtained anywhere else and is superior to them, that is a competitive advantage.

See, and right there you make a much stronger argument for DLC to be considered P2W than @Buck was able to make for the Imperial Edition to be considered P2W.

UrQuan · January 2015

Melian wrote: »

The thing is, the bonuses ESO plus members get are themselves something that shouldn't be sold for real money. XP and crafting bonuses? That's P2W.

Honestly I agree. The only reason I think it's OK for them to be in the Crown store is because ESO Plus members will already be paying real money for them, so there's no additional harm in having them available for purchase in the store, as long as it doesn't stack. I'd be much happier if nobody got them.

Lisa · January 2015

I need motifs. I can't seem to keep my gold long enough to buy from Guild Stores and my V-4 hasn't found a motif on her own in a long time.

Buck · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

See, and right there you make a much stronger argument for DLC to be considered P2W than @Buck was able to make for the Imperial Edition to be considered P2W.

lol Just because your being willfully ignorant and ignoring the actual point of what I was saying, and now you continue to argue and make the issue me instead of just sticking with "your" view. lmao so sad and typical.

I was agreeing with you and just explaining an advantage that I see. You think changing my last post from 42k to 17k makes any sense or is still not an advantage just proves you have no idea what your talking about.

You got issues buddy and P2W is just an excuse for your little frustrations to be misplaced onto others because you feel inferior or something? Did I kill you in PvP recently? Can't get over it? lol Whatever dude sorry your reading and comprehension is at an elementary level but deal with it. @UrQuan

UrQuan · January 2015

Buck wrote: »

You think changing my last post from 42k to 17k makes any sense or is still not an advantage just proves you have no idea what your talking about.

So somehow you completely missed the part where I explicitly said that I was ignoring your math being wrong because it didn't make a difference? And while you're failing to read and comprehend my post you decide to insult me by saying that my reading and comprehension is at an elementary level? OK, that makes a ton of sense.

So since you can't counter any of my points you resort to insults. Good job.

How about addressing how being able to get a non-competitive horse somehow ends up being a competitive advantage? Or addressing how your definition of P2W based on your own words has nothing to do with getting an advantage, but rather has to do entirely with being able to experience everything in the game?

stygianvision_ESO · January 2015

I'm personally not a fan of having items, bonuses, etc. for purchase that give players an advantage over people that do not pay. To me that is the definition of pay to win, even if it's as little as a 10% bonus to experience and gold. Over time, that adds up and gives players that pay the opportunity to purchase better gear and have more champion points to spend. This is coming from someone that would pay for DLC and pay monthly with no benefit just to support ESO. Hell, I'd even pay $50+/month.

I find it very suspicious that they're selling potions and soul gems. Unless they're planning on making soul gems and the lowest tier potions less common, I've always had a surplus of them and end up getting rid of them. I was handing them down to my other characters, but inventory space is too valuable for items that are so common.

Buck · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

show previous quotes

Buck wrote: »

You think changing my last post from 42k to 17k makes any sense or is still not an advantage just proves you have no idea what your talking about.

So somehow you completely missed the part where I explicitly said that I was ignoring your math being wrong because it didn't make a difference? And while you're failing to read and comprehend my post you decide to insult me by saying that my reading and comprehension is at an elementary level? OK, that makes a ton of sense.

So since you can't counter any of my points you resort to insults. Good job.

How about addressing how being able to get a non-competitive horse somehow ends up being a competitive advantage? Or addressing how your definition of P2W based on your own words has nothing to do with getting an advantage, but rather has to do entirely with being able to experience everything in the game?

Again you twist it and ignore what I say just to argue some stupid logic that is not what I said and was only a part of the concept I was explaining.

Yea your right there is no advantage to spending 1g over 17k or 42k... /rollseyes and goes on with his life whatever dude lmao

Theosis · January 2015

More bank slots

Char slots

a machine gun turret

a lightsaber

Vis · January 2015

Only one service/product should be in the store:

Service Title: Nut Crusher

Service Description:
"A ZOS representative will arrive at your door and wholeheartedly kick you in the sack for being dumb enough to perpetuate this horrible shop ..."

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

show previous quotes

Buck wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Buck wrote: »

Why do some people not even see that it was a P2W model from the onset? Keeping the imperial race and horse etc behind a pay wall. And this change will make it more so when it's implemented.

The Imperial race and horse being purchased with real money never made it P2W. The horse is worse than horses that can only be purchased with in-game gold, so it's nothing more than a convenience item. The Imperial race gets some nice bonuses, but not bonuses significant enough that you have much, if any, advantage over someone playing a different race. I've got characters of all 10 races, and I find the different racial passives to be interesting and useful, but no race has a big enough advantage in the passives to be the "OMG, you have to play this race."

Having access to the Imperial race is an advantage over someone who never threw in that extra $20. It's as simple as one can play it and one cannot... Oh you get a free horse on each character and someone who didn't buy the Imperial edition would have to pay for each character to have a horse.... 42k compared to 1g how is that not a P2W? or P2Experience it all?

It has nothing to do with your thoughts about the imperials race and it's advantages or disadvantages, you pay for it you get it, you don't pay for it and you miss out on the option.

That's not at all what pay to win is. P2W is when you have to spend real money to remain competitive. When the things you can buy don't give you a competitive advantage over people who don't buy them, then it's not P2W.

Youre arguing with a brick wall. This guy has obviously convinced himself that what he thinks is Fact and Reality. For him ZOS is the devil and he will rage until his finger bleed.

Zebular · January 2015

Should:
Vanity, Fluff, Cosmetic: Such as Mounts, Companions, Dye Colors other than what are already in game, XP Boosters, Housing Decor (Hoping we one day get customizable housing), DLC, Character Slots, and so on.

Should Not:
Anything that upsets Balance and Economy: Such as Gold, Equipment, Power/Damage/Defense/etc Boosters, Races, Powers, Combat Companions, and so on.

Furthermore, all Crown items should not be tradeable in any way with anyone else but your own characters on that account that purchased them.

Shadesofkin · January 2015

If an ESO Plus member gets access to it because of their paid subscription, it should be denied *period* to all free players (with the exception of dlc), that is what an incentive is for, to show what you should be doing rather than what you are doing.

Those bonuses do not belong to the free players, they are for the subs as a reward, making them available in Cash Shop just makes the reward look even more lame than it is.

Motifs should not be available. At least nothing that is purple or gold.
Dye Packs shouldn't be available, but they probably will be, which is sad. I worked my butt off getting those.

Elsonso · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

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lordrichter wrote: »

Additional character slots. This would best be a subscriber item and not available elsewhere, but that causes issues for former subscribers.

How so? You can already get this by spending money to buy another game account anyway, so I don't see why having it available for purchase with Crowns is a problem

Actually, this is a cash shop only item. It should stay far away from the subscribers, unless the subscribers want to use their crowns to buy it. I change my opinion.

Holycannoli wrote: »

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UrQuan wrote: »

4. Anything that gives bonuses to earned XP, earned gold, etc that is beyond what ESO Plus members get, or that stacks with the ESO Plus bonuses
5. Things that allow you to unlock special chests and such to get good gear

#4 is a staple of cash shops and #5 is fast becoming a staple. XP potions don't bother me anywhere near as much as lockboxes.

Yes. When the influx of new people realize that these things are not in the cash shop, they will bad mouth ZOS and eventually ZOS will give them what they want.

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

Nothing I make, or you make or anyone makes in game, in any form of armor weapon, potion, food, anything should be able to be bought. It will *** up the already *** up economy.

Iago · January 2015

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Nothing I make, or you make or anyone makes in game, in any form of armor weapon, potion, food, anything should be able to be bought. It will *** up the already *** up economy.

I'm guessing that ship has already set sail bud.

phairdon · January 2015

Should be in store.

Dye packs - as mentioned
Name change contracts - as mentioned
Hair style kits
Faction change
New mounts
New types of horse armor
No issue with boosts as long as they are not permanent (thinking gw2 boosts). 30 minute boost to speed, power, armor, xp.
Character slots
Bank tabs
Housing or house decor as mentioned
Armor skins
weapons skins
Pets
Character overhaul kits
New classes

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

Iago wrote: »

show previous quotes

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Nothing I make, or you make or anyone makes in game, in any form of armor weapon, potion, food, anything should be able to be bought. It will *** up the already *** up economy.

I'm guessing that ship has already set sail bud.

Yup. Just read it.
What the hell?

Faulgor · January 2015

There shouldn't be a crown store.

And there is no such thing as "just" cosmetics. The appearance of a character is an integral part of an RPG, you can't just slap it on top as an extra. When they showed the new boss helmets at QuakeCon, people didn't say "woah, nice stats!", but "hey, those look really cool!". And when you saw someone ingame wearing the Daedroth helmet, or parts of the new Dwemer style shortly after its release, you might have thought "Awesome! I want that, too!" and set yourself a goal to get it. People spend months grinding Dark Anchors to get a full lich set, just for the looks.

To make your character appear the way you want is a huge incentive in an RPG for many people, and all of that is going away. We will not see something like the Dwemer motif pages again - there is simply no reason for ZOS to do so when they can monetize them on top of our sub... sorry, ESO Plus™ Membership. They even said so in the live stream when they mentioned adding appropriate new fluff to the cash shop when releasing a new DLC. What this means is when you get access to Wrothgar with your subscription, you will have to buy the ancient Orc armor motif separately from the store. When Murkmire is released, you will have to buy the Kothringi ceremonial costume separately from the store.

I have seen this before, and I remember how it goes. You log in every other month to spend your stipend on the new costume, run around a few times, and log out again. Player rates drop because a huge incentive to even play the game has been traded in for instant gratification with money, more grotesque things will have to be added to the cash shop to keep the game afloat, and so on and so forth.

There simply is no such thing as "just" cosmetics.