It's not enough if player hits you with actual AoEs but with insane precision, or runs straight at you with camo hunter on.
Sorcs- Streak: countered by ranged, gap closers, dots.
... I'm not even sure what other "defining ability" is even in the same ballpark...
Templars... Jabs: Major evasion reduces dmg by 20%, 5x medium armor dodge gives another 10% dmg reduction, CP is another 10-20%. Conal melee. Does give self heal/ minor protection.
Warden- Arctic Wind?
Necro.. I guess blastbones? ... Not even on the same plane as cloak.
Necro..
MagDK
Camo Hunter is much less useful overall because of the gutting of crit from medium builds
Mage light is okay on mag builds curtesy of more crit on the light armor passives, but largely is still outgunned by simply going malacath.
And good luck going mostly light
There's a reason there are no dk, necro, warden, sorc, templar gankers.
baselesschart wrote: »
Direct damage AoE hits break stealth. It's intentional and fair.
baselesschart wrote: »
Sorcs- Streak: countered by ranged, gap closers, dots.
Dots? Like, how? What I basically hear here is "it is countered by damage". Amazing, players die when they take damage. How I didn't thought about that?
Streak is undodgeable and unblockable AoE stun with biggest range in the game, and also gapcloser, and also escape tool, and also deals decent AoE damage.
No true counters to streak as escape tool in this game: you can start streaking on enemy, and do second streak in his stun, resulting in bigger range than his gap closer.... I'm not even sure what other "defining ability" is even in the same ballpark...
Dark Deal.
It allows to run on zero sustain or almost zero sustain without an issue.Templars... Jabs: Major evasion reduces dmg by 20%, 5x medium armor dodge gives another 10% dmg reduction, CP is another 10-20%. Conal melee. Does give self heal/ minor protection.
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/biting-jabs
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/burning-light
872*4+1348 = 4836
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/dizzying-swing
2760
4836/2760 = 175%
Reductions: Major evasion = 20%, medium armors = 10%. CP reductions are the same for non-plars.
0.8*0.9 = 72%
72% * 175% = 125%
-- still more after all specific protections than any spammable of any other class do.Warden- Arctic Wind?
Lol what, anyone considers Arctic Wind to be a viable skill in Warden?
It's subterranean attack ofc.Necro.. I guess blastbones? ... Not even on the same plane as cloak.
Idk, you don't understand why people value big delayed AoE damage or what?
Same as chalks, this skill makes easy burst kills.Necro..
Self-synergy graveyard for more burst.MagDK
Best dots in the game coupled with bursty whip.Camo Hunter is much less useful overall because of the gutting of crit from medium builds
You got it all backwards.
Since medium armor buffs crit damage now, taking this skill boosts damage MORE than before, and it's definitely worth playing if you are not running Malacath.Mage light is okay on mag builds curtesy of more crit on the light armor passives, but largely is still outgunned by simply going malacath.
You can go mala and magelight. Mana% is boost in the damage as is.And good luck going mostly light
You can use it in heavy armor too.There's a reason there are no dk, necro, warden, sorc, templar gankers.
And also wrong. I was ganking in fast magplar lvl1 vamp, was definitely enough for ICs.
That's not what ganking means colloquially.
4. You consider an aoe ability that brings nothing else to the table comparable to cloak? What? Sub Assault does nothing for defense unlike cloak, is the easiest ability in the game to mitigate, I typically avoid about 2/3 of them by moving, and usually block the other third. Everybody knows sub assault is a pug killer.
1. Streak. Yes damage, the thing that cloak avoids. Did you forget that?
Are you comparing a whole build to cloak???
Are you taking the 10% more single target damage or 10% more crit. Ofc the single target damage. Direct damage? ofc. And you really ought to invest in at least one of the dmg reduction cps and the other either another defensive or 10% more healing. Only class that can avoid that would be... yet again and as I said which somehow you forgot... nb.
Your fist answer to me was quit helpful, but this post...?And how would you square a cloaked nightblade using a detection potion, huh? I suppose you're just looking for consistency from the nightblade's point of view, but you're not really doing PvP nightblades a favor. Casting Magelight / Camou Hunter exposes you. It knocks you out of cloak. It also alerts targets that they've been detected. Casting a detection skill as a nightblade can backfire spectacularly when the target immediately counterattacks.And as I said above your post - detection potions had a "red eye" some updates ago...Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »However, Detection potions up to this day don't have a "red eye" indicator - meaning that you can still use them and remain hidden yourself. Idk why it was not added to detection potions, since regular detection skills without an indicator (that allowed to still remain hidden yourself) were considered an exploit.
Detection potions work both for and against the nightblade. I'm not playing devil's advocate here. I main a nightblade. This is a straight up fact. Those potions are as useful to the nightblade as being caught out by one is painful. Not least when I'm attacking some random target that is NOT a nightblade, but who is bait and has a nightblade partner or a whole guild sitting around them in crouch. Since I use detection (plus spell power) potions by default as I go in for a gank, I get to see whether the field is clear and can silently abandon at the last second. That wouldn't work, if I became visible to the enemy and had an eye over my head.
All in all, your opinion may differ, but I'll take the game as it currently is, because I see not only it's disadvantages, but also it's advantages as a nightblade.
That's not what ganking means colloquially.
It means to kill enemys from stealth faster then they can do any move. Plar with acuity does exactly that.4. You consider an aoe ability that brings nothing else to the table comparable to cloak? What? Sub Assault does nothing for defense unlike cloak, is the easiest ability in the game to mitigate, I typically avoid about 2/3 of them by moving, and usually block the other third. Everybody knows sub assault is a pug killer.
It is unblockable. Neither you can dodge it if opponent is good.1. Streak. Yes damage, the thing that cloak avoids. Did you forget that?
Ironically, it doesn't avoid damage streak do.Are you comparing a whole build to cloak???
Do you run Fossilize only on DK? No? Then why this question?
Ofc I'm comparing the whole skill arsenal any class offers.
NB is Cloak. All the other skills in NB arsenal are fair. Fair isn't enough to be meta.Are you taking the 10% more single target damage or 10% more crit. Ofc the single target damage. Direct damage? ofc. And you really ought to invest in at least one of the dmg reduction cps and the other either another defensive or 10% more healing. Only class that can avoid that would be... yet again and as I said which somehow you forgot... nb.
I do all of what you mentioned on crit stamsorc and that feels good.
[snip]
I've played all the things that you said "this is bad" and they wasn't bad in my hands.
Also if cloak is so cool and better than anything any other class can offer, it means you are playing nightblade, right?
Wrong, acuity is done. I am talking about present, not the last 7 years worth of patches.
Interesting build. I’d be a bit worried about the lack of damage abilities, coupled with the lack of defensive options, coupled with the lack of mobility. Sul-xans is good in zerg fights but just bad in small scale or 1v1s, not to mention the loss of one stat line entirely. You’d be very susceptible to being one shot from nbs and magsorcs. And may not have enough sustained damage to get through any semi tanky build. Block is the best mitigation possible in the game by a mile, so still rocking sithis on anything besides a nb or magsorc is interesting to say the least. Running melee silver shards is a novel idea, not sure how well you do as a brawler though, especially without any sustained damage. Also not sure how no hard or soft cc at all would work out.
I’ve tried almost every semi viable build over the years.
Most of the best moves from other classes can be countered by active defensive measures like blocking or dodging. Or by slotting and using certain skills like purge. Nightblades aren't at all the only thing to be hard countered. Compared to the cost of other counters though having to use a potion is a pretty steep cost. I find it well balanced.
If your entire build is ruined because you can be seen... I mean... sorry your build is so terrible at everything except being invisible? Believe it or not that helpless feeling is the same feeling everybody else has when getting ganked.
Interesting build. I’d be a bit worried about the lack of damage abilities, coupled with the lack of defensive options, coupled with the lack of mobility. Sul-xans is good in zerg fights but just bad in small scale or 1v1s, not to mention the loss of one stat line entirely. You’d be very susceptible to being one shot from nbs and magsorcs. And may not have enough sustained damage to get through any semi tanky build. Block is the best mitigation possible in the game by a mile, so still rocking sithis on anything besides a nb or magsorc is interesting to say the least. Running melee silver shards is a novel idea, not sure how well you do as a brawler though, especially without any sustained damage. Also not sure how no hard or soft cc at all would work out.
It is demi-range. You miss auto from range, but you also hit harder with double dagger skill, and it's also AoE.
Gaze is enough for toughness in the most occasions, coupled with heals from critsurge (procs from AoE dots) and Vigor and Dark Deal. It also rolls Major+Minor exp for mobility, it is enough to keep up with a group and do proper positioning. Charge ability often doubles as escape in teamfights also.
Yes, it is groupfight build. It was created for BGs, where it shines. It is not strong enough in 1v1 or in 1vX (where you need to have superior survivability). It is good in smallscale with healer tho.
No, it has no lack of damage, especially sustained damage. You cast 2 AoE dots before the fight starts, you dash in with Maelstrom Stampede (3 dot layers on target so far, +1 on ground). Then you just spam cheap and strong demi-range AoE spammable, that hits harder on vamps. And you can spam it all day, because darkdeals. All damage crits and has insane damage mod on crit. It is enough to pressure and outsustain any tank, except maybe self-sustained permablockers that do no damage.I’ve tried almost every semi viable build over the years.
I bet that's not true. I have ideas how to exploit various aspects of game mechanics, more ideas than I have free time in fact.
And I can tell that about 2/3 of those ideas will end up in viable builds.
Well tbf acuity is still pretty bad on jabs, it doesn't pay as a fb set.
I'd just worry that outside large scale fights I wouldn't have the ability to kit or heal through.
The aoe damage is largely lost when you fight from range anyway.
Also why use stampede?
Is sul-xans awkward to get to in large fights, especially from range? (Never used it so not sure if the location of the soul is convenient) I've tried essence thief and I know the spot is now pretty convenient but I've had awkward fights where the uptime isn't so good.
Is the critted shards more damage than Dswing, Crystal blast, medium, executioner?
Nightblade is extremely devastating in the hands of a really good player. It does however have a significant learning curve compared to other classes so your argument is a little easier said than done.if u have problems to be competitive with ur S Tier NB u should either learn how to play this game, or delete ur char.
It is impossible to tell if the person has detection effect on them.
Right now, it feels like the person on other side is just cheating, because he follows you in invisibility without any visual indicators on his side.
It needs at least some visual indicator.
Or removed, because it is unfair anyway.
Disagre.
It's the counter. And funny watching the panicked running squaters
What class do you main? I am sure any of us can pick apart all the overpowered things....
I'm sure you can @EmperorIl but this isn't a personal attack or anything to do with what class I play or what other skills are strong.
The debate is about detection pots, and I think they working as intended. They are a counter and take up a slot of something else so for Mag that's Tri stat or even spell power. Pro and Con.
baselesschart wrote: »Nightblade is extremely devastating in the hands of a really good player. It does however have a significant learning curve compared to other classes so your argument is a little easier said than done.if u have problems to be competitive with ur S Tier NB u should either learn how to play this game, or delete ur char.
BlackArgonian wrote: »I been saying for years that cloak and streak are the reasons the pvp will always remain something that favors class and not skill, but i main a Necro these days so I just do BGs for 7k AP at this point.
Ye, NB is a Veryyyy situational class. Sometimes you can do well, but "on average" - most of your opponents know what they are doing & how to counter NB biggest advantage (invisibility). Flare, Magelight, Expert Hunter or detect potions, or - just a direct damage AOE. Most of those things (like flare) nowadays you slot anyway for the passive buff or as a part of your offensive toolkit (direct damage AOE).baselesschart wrote: »Nightblade is extremely devastating in the hands of a really good player. It does however have a significant learning curve compared to other classes so your argument is a little easier said than done.if u have problems to be competitive with ur S Tier NB u should either learn how to play this game, or delete ur char.
This is a screenshot from a vid made in June 2020:Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Some people here mentioned that it used to have a "red eye" icon, but I am not sure. I don't remember it ever having it (although I might be wrong).
Let me correct your post:It is impossible to tell if the person has detection effect on them.
Right now, it feels like the person on other side is just cheating, because he follows you in invisibility without any visual indicators on his side.
It needs at least some visual indicator.
Or removed, because it is unfair anyway.
baselesschart wrote: »Nightblade is extremely devastating in the hands of a really good player. It does however have a significant learning curve compared to other classes so your argument is a little easier said than done.if u have problems to be competitive with ur S Tier NB u should either learn how to play this game, or delete ur char.
It is impossible to tell if the person has detection effect on them.
Right now, it feels like the person on other side is just cheating, because he follows you in invisibility without any visual indicators on his side.
It needs at least some visual indicator.
Or removed, because it is unfair anyway.
Disagre.
It's the counter. And funny watching the panicked running squaters
What class do you main? I am sure any of us can pick apart all the overpowered things....
I'm sure you can @EmperorIl but this isn't a personal attack or anything to do with what class I play or what other skills are strong.
The debate is about detection pots, and I think they working as intended. They are a counter and take up a slot of something else so for Mag that's Tri stat or even spell power. Pro and Con.
What's the counter to your sorc shields? Oblivion damage (tough to type without a straight face)?
And I feel you were baiting with the "And funny watching the panicked running squaters" so yea it was kinda personal for those who play NB, don't worry, I did not report you. My point here is few are asking for it to be removed, we just asked for an indicator that someone can see you. You are negating our class defining ability, one which we require to survive unless you go brawler build.
I asked what you main because I am sure whatever it is I can ask you how you would feel if your build's defining ability were able to be negated every 47 seconds for 15 seconds how you would feel about it.
And you can make detect pots that restore magicka as well. You can also slot what? 8 different items? I always have detect pots in one of them btw. Just because I am a NB doesn't mean I don't get killed by them too.
NB wants to hide and not be detected, upset something can detect them and they not know it but at the same time they want to hide from another player and not be detected. The irony is strong.
Don’t see the problem with detect pots and honestly thing the red eye should be seen only the player using the skill. If a NB wants to hide, then the other player should be able to hide that they are looking for them or able to see them. To me it would make better counter play.
Stay safe and Happy New Year!!!
It is impossible to tell if the person has detection effect on them.
Right now, it feels like the person on other side is just cheating, because he follows you in invisibility without any visual indicators on his side.
It needs at least some visual indicator.
Or removed, because it is unfair anyway.
Disagre.
It's the counter. And funny watching the panicked running squaters
What class do you main? I am sure any of us can pick apart all the overpowered things....
I'm sure you can @EmperorIl but this isn't a personal attack or anything to do with what class I play or what other skills are strong.
The debate is about detection pots, and I think they working as intended. They are a counter and take up a slot of something else so for Mag that's Tri stat or even spell power. Pro and Con.
What's the counter to your sorc shields? Oblivion damage (tough to type without a straight face)?
And I feel you were baiting with the "And funny watching the panicked running squaters" so yea it was kinda personal for those who play NB, don't worry, I did not report you. My point here is few are asking for it to be removed, we just asked for an indicator that someone can see you. You are negating our class defining ability, one which we require to survive unless you go brawler build.
I asked what you main because I am sure whatever it is I can ask you how you would feel if your build's defining ability were able to be negated every 47 seconds for 15 seconds how you would feel about it.
And you can make detect pots that restore magicka as well. You can also slot what? 8 different items? I always have detect pots in one of them btw. Just because I am a NB doesn't mean I don't get killed by them too.
What do Sorc wards have to do with any of this? Oh sorry you had a little dig and did make it personal, that's directly baiting / attacking me which has nothing to do with this thread.
My comment on watching the squatted players scatter was not direct against anyone, or even nightblades. It's about those crouched in general, when you know there is an attack coming and they all say and you pop a potion and reveal them all.
I'm not baiting, I'm describing the exact purpose of the potion in the game and it's comedic output.
Are you saying you take no glee from a successful gank?
Back to the point. Yes you can slot multiple pots but you are giving up a cooldown on one that serves NO other purpose i.e. (as I said before) losing Tri Stat & Spell Power (i.e. damage to attack the player you have now revealed)
What I run or don't run has no bearing on this thread.
What I personally play or the strengths or weaknesses of that toon type are irrelevant unless you are trying to bait or attack me personally..
My point stands, the pots work exactly as they should. If the person knew it would defy the point, they are only revealed to the pot user NOT all and take away a slot for something else..
Working as intended. No need to forum gank people who disagree with you..