Olauron wrote: »

Antiquity system is much more fun than Maelstrom Arena. There are bound weapons and armor locked behind arenas too, so I don't see a point of 'it is not a side activity, as you get Mythic Items from it'.

Mobile games being more fun to MMO players than MA which is a PvE challenge is just your opinion (and probably wrong). But you're conflating several things, so it's a false equivalence.

These are two separate questions/issues:
1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Has to do with the rationale of gating content behind certain releases and gameplays. Where should people get the items from? What content and other requirements should be needed to get the items? That sort of thing.
2) Why is the item bound?
Has to do with the exclusivity of the reward. Should the item be a tradeable commodity, an account-bound vanity reward, a character-bound skill progression? That sort of thing.

With most items, there is a very good answer for both of these questions. So let's look at your example. That makes sense right? But try to rationalize it for Antiquities. Go on, try. Mythic items are powerful combat sets for PvE (or PvP) so they should come from... connect-the-dots minigames? What? Mythic items are a feature of Greymoor so they should be locked behind... random DLCs in fragments because... why exactly? Those DLCs already got their exclusive sets when they released, but now they are required for Greymoor's exclusive sets too? Why?

When the answer to most of these questions is simply 'to force more people to do it all so it increases our playtime statistics and sells more DLCs' rather than some gameplay explanation, then you know the system is shady.

bluebird wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Antiquity system is much more fun than Maelstrom Arena. There are bound weapons and armor locked behind arenas too, so I don't see a point of 'it is not a side activity, as you get Mythic Items from it'.

Mobile games being more fun to MMO players than MA which is a PvE challenge is just your opinion (and probably wrong). But you're conflating several things, so it's a false equivalence.

These are two separate questions/issues:
1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Has to do with the rationale of gating content behind certain releases and gameplays. Where should people get the items from? What content and other requirements should be needed to get the items? That sort of thing.
2) Why is the item bound?
Has to do with the exclusivity of the reward. Should the item be a tradeable commodity, an account-bound vanity reward, a character-bound skill progression? That sort of thing.

With most items, there is a very good answer for both of these questions. So let's look at your example.

1) vMA weapons are impactful combat sets. Why should this item be locked behind an Arena? Because it's a powerful endgame equipment for those who can tackle endgame content, so the weapons come from a PvE challenge and their use is for PvE challenges aimed at people who do PvE challenges. Why should this item require Orsinium? Because Maelstrom Arena is a feature of Orsinium so rewards from it need Orsinium.

But why should vMA weapons come from vMA and not a trial or a dungeon? Because people can get carried in group content, and the solo challenge of vMA ensures that these special weapons reward players who are serious about their skills and equipment. And why should they come from a PvE challenge, not PvP??? Because vMA weapons are aimed at PvE content primarily. While some PvP players may also find them useful, PvE is far more calculated and reliant on predictable min-maxing to work out values and benchmarks; so the impact of PvE gear is greater in PvE, whereas PvP is more spontaneous and situational. However, ZOS also design PvP sets with PvP combat and PvP stats in mind that come from PvP.

2) Why should vMA weapons be bound? Because making them tradable would cheapen the power progression system, would result in P2W accusations and it wouldn't be a challenge or a reward if anybody could buy them without earning them.

That makes sense right? But try to rationalize it for Antiquities. Go on, try. Mythic items are powerful combat sets for PvE (or PvP) so they should come from... connect-the-dots minigames? What? Mythic items are a feature of Greymoor so they should be locked behind... random DLCs in fragments because... why exactly? Those DLCs already got their exclusive sets when they released, but now they are required for Greymoor's exclusive sets too? Why?

When the answer to most of these questions is simply 'to force more people to do it all so it increases our playtime statistics and sells more DLCs' rather than some gameplay explanation, then you know the system is shady.

It is not a mobile game. It is a logic game. The gameplay of both scrying and excavation are better and more fun than the current combat at least because you can't exploit it by animation cancelling. Only real skill matters.

1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Because to get this item you need to go to a specific location (base game location) and thus the player population of that zone will be increased. The same with nMA weapons. The purpose of the arenas is not to check whether this player is good or not. The purpose is to move players into content with small population. Everything else is secondary.

2) Why is the item bound?
The power and rarity of Mythic Items is comparable with Monster Sets and nMA weapons. It is understandable that such 1-piece sets are bound.

Olauron wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Antiquity system is much more fun than Maelstrom Arena. There are bound weapons and armor locked behind arenas too, so I don't see a point of 'it is not a side activity, as you get Mythic Items from it'.

Mobile games being more fun to MMO players than MA which is a PvE challenge is just your opinion (and probably wrong). But you're conflating several things, so it's a false equivalence.

These are two separate questions/issues:
1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Has to do with the rationale of gating content behind certain releases and gameplays. Where should people get the items from? What content and other requirements should be needed to get the items? That sort of thing.
2) Why is the item bound?
Has to do with the exclusivity of the reward. Should the item be a tradeable commodity, an account-bound vanity reward, a character-bound skill progression? That sort of thing.

With most items, there is a very good answer for both of these questions. So let's look at your example.

1) vMA weapons are impactful combat sets. Why should this item be locked behind an Arena? Because it's a powerful endgame equipment for those who can tackle endgame content, so the weapons come from a PvE challenge and their use is for PvE challenges aimed at people who do PvE challenges. Why should this item require Orsinium? Because Maelstrom Arena is a feature of Orsinium so rewards from it need Orsinium.

But why should vMA weapons come from vMA and not a trial or a dungeon? Because people can get carried in group content, and the solo challenge of vMA ensures that these special weapons reward players who are serious about their skills and equipment. And why should they come from a PvE challenge, not PvP??? Because vMA weapons are aimed at PvE content primarily. While some PvP players may also find them useful, PvE is far more calculated and reliant on predictable min-maxing to work out values and benchmarks; so the impact of PvE gear is greater in PvE, whereas PvP is more spontaneous and situational. However, ZOS also design PvP sets with PvP combat and PvP stats in mind that come from PvP.

2) Why should vMA weapons be bound? Because making them tradable would cheapen the power progression system, would result in P2W accusations and it wouldn't be a challenge or a reward if anybody could buy them without earning them.

That makes sense right? But try to rationalize it for Antiquities. Go on, try. Mythic items are powerful combat sets for PvE (or PvP) so they should come from... connect-the-dots minigames? What? Mythic items are a feature of Greymoor so they should be locked behind... random DLCs in fragments because... why exactly? Those DLCs already got their exclusive sets when they released, but now they are required for Greymoor's exclusive sets too? Why?

When the answer to most of these questions is simply 'to force more people to do it all so it increases our playtime statistics and sells more DLCs' rather than some gameplay explanation, then you know the system is shady.

It is not a mobile game. It is a logic game. The gameplay of both scrying and excavation are better and more fun than the current combat at least because you can't exploit it by animation cancelling. Only real skill matters.

It's not a logic game. It's a randomized grid that you click until stuff disappears. The allocation of the tiles due to luck matters far more than 'real skill'. Let's not pretend that any of this is intellectually challenging, especially with the Passives from the skill lines. Combat actually takes skill to master, hell even Lockpicking which has a timer and set tumbler weak points you can memorize to lockpick more efficiently because it's based on your observation and reaction time, not random luck.

And again, apart from your own opinion, you'll be hard pressed to prove that MMO players find those minigames 'better and more fun' than actual MMO gameplay. And even harder to justify why there should be a gating of Mythic combat sets, furnishings, PvP siege weapons and cosmetics behind these minigames. Fish are gated behind fishing, makes sense. But what's the sensible connection between the Antiquities and their skill-line-gated, bound and DLC-locked rewards exactly?

1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Because to get this item you need to go to a specific location (base game location) and thus the player population of that zone will be increased. The same with nMA weapons. The purpose of the arenas is not to check whether this player is good or not. The purpose is to move players into content with small population. Everything else is secondary.

1) First you say that they want players to increase zone populations, then you say that they want to decrease zone populations with Arenas? And apparently the main point of Arenas is to reduce player populations, anything else is secondary? Makes no sense because both DSA and BRP are aimed at Groups, which is equal to dungeons. They are also instanced content just like trials and dungeons. So the deciding factor seems to be the PvE challenge of them (especially Maelstrom), not population. So the fact that challenging PvE combat awards impactful PvE combat gear makes sense like Fish and Fishing. The connection between Mythic combat sets and mobile games though... not so much.

And your population answer wasn't just contradictory, it also didn't justify the gating of Mythic items behind Antiquities at all . If they want to spread players into other zones, why aren't the base game zones good for that? There are far more of those, and yet miraculously the Mythic items require other DLCs in addition to Greymoor. And even If they want players to go to zones, why don't they reward combat items from combating enemies in those zones? And if they want players to go to all zones for performance reasons as you say, then why isn't the Antiquities system a base-game update to overhaul Treasure Maps instead of multi-DLC-locked (which supports my point that money seems to be the motivation behind these restrictions)?

2) Why is the item bound?
The power and rarity of Mythic Items is comparable with Monster Sets and nMA weapons. It is understandable that such 1-piece sets are bound.

2) Obviously yes OP PvE/PvP Mythic gear should be bound. That's why I didn't ask 'Why should Mythic items be bound'? I asked why should Mythic items - which are impactful combat PvE/PvP items come from unrelated minigame grinds.

The bound question applies to the other Antiquities rewards. Fish from Fishing isn't bound, treasure and furniture from Lockpicking chests isn't bound, Motifs from Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild sneak and kill minigames aren't bound; but literally everything in the Antiquities minigames has to be bound? Why?

That's why I wrote that these - binding and gating - are 2 separate questions. Sure, make your Chapter's newly released powerful combat gear bound, but why gate Mythic items behind Antiquities minigames, rather than combat content? They didn't gate Jewelcrafting behind housing either and it would have made just as little sense. And on the other hand sure, let braindead games reward fashion fluff like motifs, but why are these bound? When motifs from far harder gameplay like trials or DLC dungeons can be freely traded?

tl;dr: So I hope that it's clear why your comparison of gating vMA weapons behind MA is nothing like gating all the Mythic, furnishing, siege weapon and cosmetics behind the skill-line-gated DLC-locked account-bound minigames. Because that's why I replied to you, to point out that 'they lock PvE gear behind Arenas too' is not an accurate or valid defense against the issues of the Antiquities system.

bluebird wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Antiquity system is much more fun than Maelstrom Arena. There are bound weapons and armor locked behind arenas too, so I don't see a point of 'it is not a side activity, as you get Mythic Items from it'.

Mobile games being more fun to MMO players than MA which is a PvE challenge is just your opinion (and probably wrong). But you're conflating several things, so it's a false equivalence.

These are two separate questions/issues:
1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Has to do with the rationale of gating content behind certain releases and gameplays. Where should people get the items from? What content and other requirements should be needed to get the items? That sort of thing.
2) Why is the item bound?
Has to do with the exclusivity of the reward. Should the item be a tradeable commodity, an account-bound vanity reward, a character-bound skill progression? That sort of thing.

With most items, there is a very good answer for both of these questions. So let's look at your example.

1) vMA weapons are impactful combat sets. Why should this item be locked behind an Arena? Because it's a powerful endgame equipment for those who can tackle endgame content, so the weapons come from a PvE challenge and their use is for PvE challenges aimed at people who do PvE challenges. Why should this item require Orsinium? Because Maelstrom Arena is a feature of Orsinium so rewards from it need Orsinium.

But why should vMA weapons come from vMA and not a trial or a dungeon? Because people can get carried in group content, and the solo challenge of vMA ensures that these special weapons reward players who are serious about their skills and equipment. And why should they come from a PvE challenge, not PvP??? Because vMA weapons are aimed at PvE content primarily. While some PvP players may also find them useful, PvE is far more calculated and reliant on predictable min-maxing to work out values and benchmarks; so the impact of PvE gear is greater in PvE, whereas PvP is more spontaneous and situational. However, ZOS also design PvP sets with PvP combat and PvP stats in mind that come from PvP.

2) Why should vMA weapons be bound? Because making them tradable would cheapen the power progression system, would result in P2W accusations and it wouldn't be a challenge or a reward if anybody could buy them without earning them.

That makes sense right? But try to rationalize it for Antiquities. Go on, try. Mythic items are powerful combat sets for PvE (or PvP) so they should come from... connect-the-dots minigames? What? Mythic items are a feature of Greymoor so they should be locked behind... random DLCs in fragments because... why exactly? Those DLCs already got their exclusive sets when they released, but now they are required for Greymoor's exclusive sets too? Why?

When the answer to most of these questions is simply 'to force more people to do it all so it increases our playtime statistics and sells more DLCs' rather than some gameplay explanation, then you know the system is shady.

It is not a mobile game. It is a logic game. The gameplay of both scrying and excavation are better and more fun than the current combat at least because you can't exploit it by animation cancelling. Only real skill matters.

It's not a logic game. It's a randomized grid that you click until stuff disappears. The allocation of the tiles due to luck matters far more than 'real skill'. Let's not pretend that any of this is intellectually challenging, especially with the Passives from the skill lines. Combat actually takes skill to master, hell even Lockpicking which has a timer and set tumbler weak points you can memorize to lockpick more efficiently because it's based on your observation and reaction time, not random luck.

And again, apart from your own opinion, you'll be hard pressed to prove that MMO players find those minigames 'better and more fun' than actual MMO gameplay. And even harder to justify why there should be a gating of Mythic combat sets, furnishings, PvP siege weapons and cosmetics behind these minigames. Fish are gated behind fishing, makes sense. But what's the sensible connection between the Antiquities and their skill-line-gated, bound and DLC-locked rewards exactly?

1) Why is the item locked behind a certain activity?
Because to get this item you need to go to a specific location (base game location) and thus the player population of that zone will be increased. The same with nMA weapons. The purpose of the arenas is not to check whether this player is good or not. The purpose is to move players into content with small population. Everything else is secondary.

1) First you say that they want players to increase zone populations, then you say that they want to decrease zone populations with Arenas? And apparently the main point of Arenas is to reduce player populations, anything else is secondary? Makes no sense because both DSA and BRP are aimed at Groups, which is equal to dungeons. They are also instanced content just like trials and dungeons. So the deciding factor seems to be the PvE challenge of them (especially Maelstrom), not population. So the fact that challenging PvE combat awards impactful PvE combat gear makes sense like Fish and Fishing. The connection between Mythic combat sets and mobile games though... not so much.

And your population answer wasn't just contradictory, it also didn't justify the gating of Mythic items behind Antiquities at all . If they want to spread players into other zones, why aren't the base game zones good for that? There are far more of those, and yet miraculously the Mythic items require other DLCs in addition to Greymoor. And even If they want players to go to zones, why don't they reward combat items from combating enemies in those zones? And if they want players to go to all zones for performance reasons as you say, then why isn't the Antiquities system a base-game update to overhaul Treasure Maps instead of multi-DLC-locked (which supports my point that money seems to be the motivation behind these restrictions)?

2) Why is the item bound?
The power and rarity of Mythic Items is comparable with Monster Sets and nMA weapons. It is understandable that such 1-piece sets are bound.

2) Obviously yes OP PvE/PvP Mythic gear should be bound. That's why I didn't ask 'Why should Mythic items be bound'? I asked why should Mythic items - which are impactful combat PvE/PvP items come from unrelated minigame grinds.

The bound question applies to the other Antiquities rewards. Fish from Fishing isn't bound, treasure and furniture from Lockpicking chests isn't bound, Motifs from Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild sneak and kill minigames aren't bound; but literally everything in the Antiquities minigames has to be bound? Why?

That's why I wrote that these - binding and gating - are 2 separate questions. Sure, make your Chapter's newly released powerful combat gear bound, but why gate Mythic items behind Antiquities minigames, rather than combat content? They didn't gate Jewelcrafting behind housing either and it would have made just as little sense. And on the other hand sure, let braindead games reward fashion fluff like motifs, but why are these bound? When motifs from far harder gameplay like trials or DLC dungeons can be freely traded?

tl;dr: So I hope that it's clear why your comparison of gating vMA weapons behind MA is nothing like gating all the Mythic, furnishing, siege weapon and cosmetics behind the skill-line-gated DLC-locked account-bound minigames. Because that's why I replied to you, to point out that 'they lock PvE gear behind Arenas too' is not an accurate or valid defense against the issues of the Antiquities system.

i commend you for taking him seriously after his absurd comment about weaving, "real skill" and exploitation.
he clearly is quite biased and doesn't know what he's talking about, yet you tried to explain it to him.
this awesome is well deserved.

on the topic of mobile app games:
my comparison comes from the fact that those two mini games are just like low effort mobile app games.
if i sit down two days and steal the grapical assets, i'll have it rdy for launch on any app store.
obviously i would not do that, Mr. ZOS!

Dracane wrote: »

The amount of skillpoints required for the system is extremely toxic.
There are passives that could easily require 1 skillpoints instead of artifically stretching it into a 2-3 points passive.

I am one of few people who have all skillpoints in the game. All skyshards, all quests, all pvp ranks etc. Yet once I have invested the 31 skillpoints demanded by the system+potentially the new vampire stuff, I will be out. It might not even be enough for both.

How do they expect average or even advanced players to afford this amount of skillpoints? Very toxic and unnecessary. At least add more passives akin Dark Rider, Improved Hiding, Locksmith that actually translate to our day to day acitivities and encourage one to invest into the system. Keen Eye for treasure chests is whatever?

Well said. At least when doing DB quests I knew I was getting something tangible out of the system.
Shadow rider is easily one of my favorite passive in the game, it makes sense thematically, and it's useful.

Are Mythic Items account bound or character bound?

Good to hear! Another stupidly painful grind that ZOS is going to sell in the crown store for $20 to $30. Just like Mages guild, and Fighters guild, and Undaunted, and Psijic, and Thieves guild, and Dark Brotherhood, and Legerdemain, and Werewolf, and Vampire, and Skyshards . Do I need to continue??? Keep it up ZO$! You are doing GREAT!

bluebird wrote: »

I didn't say one is blindly clicking based on luck, I said that the random allocation of the tiles (i.e. how luckily similar symbols are arranged during scrying and where the artifact will spawn in your dirt square during excavation) has far more to do with it than skill.

On a simple difficulty? Maybe, but it doesn't matter anyway. On an ultimate difficulty luck doesn't matter much.

bluebird wrote: »

But the gameplay aside, on the topic of the rewards, your objections don't address the Antiquities issue. You're just mentioning population concerns on a tangent. If they want to increase Arena participation because otherwise it's 'wasted resources' surely it would be logical to add powerful combat sets to Arenas? Like they always did so far? Riiiight? Not 'we want to make ultracasual grindy minigames, so we'll put some of the most poweful PvE/PvP items there'.

This is exactly what they have done by moving vMA weapons to nMA. Antiquities play the same role for old overland zones.

bluebird wrote: »

And honestly, if you see PvE and PvP players 'asking for new content', 'complaining that they already did everything and want more', and think that the solution to placate them is to add dumbed down mobile games with painful graphics, there really is no hope for this discussion.

Solution is to give new content without making more zones, dungeons, arenas and such, because making more zones, dungeons, arenas and such is clearly out of question.

bluebird wrote: »

They posted on the PTS patch notes that some Antiquities on the PTS don't bind to you, but they are intended to. It's currently unclear whether furniture should be bound and motifs not, but it seems most Antiquities will be Bound. And binding is just a small part of the issues with the system, I outlined at least 6 issues with it in other posts so I won't repeat myself.

From the patch notes:
Many of the Antiquity furnishings do not currently bind to you as intended when acquired.
I see nothing about motifs.

bluebird wrote: »

Also, this is from ZOS's own article on Antiquities:
"The activities are short, puzzle-based bursts of gameplay. We wanted the system to be accessible to a wide variety of players, so we made sure these activities don’t require lightning-fast reflexes or a deep knowledge of combat.”

And it perfectly summarises why people call them cheap mobile games. They are a low complexity, low effort, low rez gameplay designed for the lowest common denominator of players, intended to be easy and repetitive rather than intellectually challenging, creative, or unique. If ZOS truly believed in the 'broad appeal of the gameplay' as they say in their article, they wouldn't have forced the 'broad appeal of the rewards' just like people enjoy housing as a minigame without having exclusive PvE sets, PvP weapons, motifs, bells and whistles, two turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree gated behind it as content stimulus carrots.

Antiquity scrying and excavation is short and fun. Clearly you can't burn through its mechanics by high DPS, which is good. Nothing wrong with the article. And yes, additionally it has a carrot just like any other system in the game. Nobody will write it in the marketing article, you know.

I personally like it. Again no one is forcing you to play any content in the game.

redgreensunset wrote: »

@Mix except no dlc is free. One or two dlcs have been given away for free for a short time and occasionally they go on sale, but other than those couple of free giveaways you have to pay to get access to them. So unless ZOS plans on making all chapter and story dlcs free for all players this is going to force people to pay for more than the base game and Greymoor to play the major feature of Greymoor. It would be a bit like them forcing you to get every dlc between base game and Summerset simply to be able to use jewel crafting.
Sorry but the way this system worksmakes me very much not want to get Greymoor at all and am making me reevaluate my future financial support of this game.

How? You don't have to have all dlcs to use the antiquity system? Where are people getting that info? I tested it in the pts and didn't once venture into a dlc zone. I went to only base game zones. I know there are like 2-3 mythic items that you need dlc for, but there are plenty of other items you can get outside of those.

@redgreensunset True. I haven't found leads for every piece of every mythic item to know if you need more than Greymoor and free dlc and base game to get them all. I have wanted to hunt leads so avoided using the template character's special "leads" envelope. That is a valid concern though that all the Mythic gear items should be obtainable with Greymoor and Base Game + free DLC (which will include Northern Elsweyr Chapter at Greymoor Launch).

Actually I should check on ALL the fragmented antiquities for zones.

Edit: Used that "lead" envelope on the template character to see where all the pieces are at.

Two of the Mythic gear items have a piece in a DLC that isn't already part of the base game (as far as I know)

Malacath's Band of Brutality has one fragment in Wrothgar.
Ring of the Wild Hunt has one fragment in Murkmire.

The other four gear items only need Greymoor and all other free content.
The mount and music box also only need free content.

Since I have not only bought all the chapters but am an ESO+ subscriber it is my understanding that the base game, Morrowind, Summerset and Elsweyr and all part of Greymoor and that the Imperial City DLC is accessible to everyone, but I could be mistaken since I've always had access to everything...

Edit 2: I have been informed that previous chapters are sold with the new chapter for people newly buying the game (but not the ugprade) and that previous chapters are added as DLC to in-game crown store and become accessible for ESO+; not that they are 'included'. So that means

Does Summerset get added to the base game this year with Greymoor Launch? (since Morrowind was added to base game last year?) I am very confused.

The Thrassian Stranglers and the Music Box Furniture item need Summerset to complete.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

It's one thing to enjoy the gameplay of the system (plenty of people play braindead mobile games too, to each their own) but another thing to condone the exclusive reward structure that forces players to grind unrelated minigames if they want to stay competitive in their actual MMO gameplay.

one -is- obligated to do veteran trials to get the "exclusive reward structure" that forces players to grind unrelated trial content if they want to stay competitive in their actual MMO gameplay (relequen? sioria? false god? etc.).

see? This one can do this too.

That's... the point... doing PvE combat for PvE combat gear makes sense. That's not unrelated. Which is why every time someone says 'powerful combat gear is locked behind endgame combat content too' it just continues to prove my point and illustrates the issue that Antiquities has the widest range of multi-DLC locked unrelated bound rewards this game has ever seen.

Why do you think that 90% of the game's bound combat sets comes from combat? Or that 90% of the game's Cyrodiil siege weapons come from Cyrodiil? Do you people not see the obvious logical design in that? Not just common sense but also ZOS's own precedence show that the rewards are tailored to the activity, and that the type of gameplay and the type of reward are connected when making decisions about what they gate things behind.

When ZOS added housing, they didn't lock combat sets behind it. Perfected weapons (similar 1-set gear to Mythics that impact your combat gameplay and performance by using up only a few slots) won't come from Fishing. Even cosmetics from PvP come in tradeable Runeboxes. Other minigames have only a few rewards, most tradeable (like furnishings and Motifs from Lockpicking or DB/TG minigames). When they revamped the Justice system, they didn't lock anything behind it. When WoW added Legendaries, they didn't lock them behind mini Pet Battles.

ZOS allowed housing to be a side activity that people do for fun and relaxation, but with Antiquities they got so anxious that nobody will play it that they instead gate items for every single gameplay and playstyle behind this one new minigame playstyle and several DLCs, instead of letting the system speak for itself. Because they know that most people would not bother with Antiquities otherwise.

The people complaining about the Simplistic nature of the activity are the same people who support standing in front of a target dummy and pounding buttons until you learn the ever so difficult task of "weaving." So silly....


I actually logged on to the test server to just do antiquities because the PC NA was down. I dont play app games....I do like antiquities. I also don't stand in front of target dummies....