Can we please remove DLC dungeons from random finder?

Glurin · June 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

One of the problems with separating DLC dungeons from the random queue is there are a lot of people who, by their own admission, would opt out, thereby shrinking the number of players available for those dungeons. That means much longer queue times if you're trying to get into one of those dungeons. Considering the only people with access to those dungeons are ESO+ subs and people who bought the DLCs, that shrinkage is going to be a pretty big issue.

I get the difficulty situation, but you're going to have to make up for that loss somehow or we might end up in a situation where it's nigh impossible to use the group finder to get a group for any of those DLC dungeons.

LOL, so unhappy players should be forced to play with you so you don't have to wait in the queue as long?

Yes. The point of the random queue is that you are making yourself available for any dungeon, including the ones you don't personally like doing. That way people who want to do a specific dungeon don't have to wait around for six hours just to find a group.

If you really don't want to do a particular dungeon, you can queue yourself up for everything except that dungeon(s), but you necessarily forfeit the random queue reward because you are no longer fulfilling the purpose of the random queue.

Austinseph1 · June 2019

It was fun when I was lower levels but I won’t run random dlc dungeons, Tanking a dungeon where my 5k dps is half of the total group dps... It melts my brain and plain isn’t fun. I just stopped doing them. Making a guild group is the only way to go.

MojaveHeld · June 2019

As someone who has no issue with the vet DLC dungeons, I totally agree with you. I've cleared all of them many, many times, and I absolutely loathe getting one when I select random vet. Pugs are just a terrible fit for most of the DLC dungeons, and it makes it an unpleasant experience for everyone. If I want to do a DLC vet, I'll go with people I know can do it, or with a mostly experienced group and one new person we're introducing to it. Especially if I'm tanking, I can't carry a scrub group through a vet DLC dungeon. So it just wastes everyone's time.

There are some people on this thread who are arguing against your proposal, because they want to queue specifically for the vet DLC dungeon and have random people forced to slog through it with them. They're being selfish and unreasonable, and their view would only hold any merit if there were thresholds that every party member (especially dps) had to meet before even being able to queue. As it is, the overwhelming majority of the people using dungeon finder specifically for vet DLC dungeons aren't anywhere near good enough to complete them, so it's ridiculous that they waste everyone's time. Removing DLC dungeons from the random queue would make it so that only the people who are specifically wanting to do those are forced into it, which is better for everyone. Sure, those people might have longer queue times, but it's more than worth it to avoid the current mess.

Glurin · June 2019

Oh we're the ones being selfish and unreasonable now? The people who say "if you queue for a random dungeon, you do a random dungeon"? Not the people who say "random dungeon queue should reward me for doing only the dungeon I want and screw anyone who wanted to do something else"?

MojaveHeld · June 2019

Yes, you are the ones being unreasonable and selfish. The ones saying "There's a gigantic gulf in skill required between DLC and non-DLC vet dungeons, and I'm not good enough to do the former, but I'm selfishly going to try to force random people just doing their random to slog through it with me and try to carry me." Whereas the reasonable people say "Due to the gulf in skill required between DLC and non-DLC vet dungeons, we know that the huge majority of people using the dungeon finder aren't good enough for the DLC vet dungeons, so random dungeons are limited only to non-DLC ones, which the average pug group can reasonably complete. The players who still want to do a specific vet DLC dungeon using group finder will be matched up with others who are thinking likewise, and the extra wait time they experience is more than a fair tradeoff to not have the current mess."

Agenericname · June 2019

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Yes, you are the ones being unreasonable and selfish. The ones saying "There's a gigantic gulf in skill required between DLC and non-DLC vet dungeons, and I'm not good enough to do the latter, but I'm selfishly going to try to force random people just doing their random to slog through it with me and try to carry me." Whereas the reasonable people say "Due to the gulf in skill required between DLC and non-DLC vet dungeons, we know that the huge majority of people using the dungeon finder aren't good enough for the DLC vet dungeons, so random dungeons are limited only to those which the average pug group can reasonably complete. The players who still want to do a specific vet DLC dungeon using group finder will be matched up with others who are thinking likewise, and the extra wait time they experience is more than a fair tradeoff to not have the current mess."

You're attempt to dichotomize players into reasonable and unreasonable based off of your opinion is what is truly unreasonable.

Not everyone opposed to it needs a carry. Thats a baseless assumption bordering on ad hominem. Its anything but credible.

You do not know that the "huge majority" of players using the RDF in their respective difficulties are not capable of completing them. Neither do I. You know what you see. I see a failure rate of less than 10%, even in PUGs. Even if you polled the forums it would be biased. ZOS is the only entity that actually has the completion rates, they chose to tone down a few "choke points" and leave the system as is.

Furthermore, the DPS threshold for most dungeons isn't nearly as high as it is made to be. Mechanics are what hold people back. People are impatient and want high DPS, in most of the non HM, even vet DLC, it isn't always necessary. In a normal DLC it's barely relevant, which is what the OP asked for.

Lastly, there is a perfectly viable alternative that nobody who runs vet DLCs has objected to, simply do not select them. Since this insures that you will only run the dungeons that you are willing to run, and people still object to this method, it suggests that the real reason is the rewards for completing the random dungeon.

The forums paints a picture of this, like most things, that highlights the bad disproportionalty. I run them every day, in PUGs, with groups, doesn't matter to me. They're far more civil than the forums are.

MojaveHeld · June 2019

Sure, not everyone opposed to removing vet DLC dungeons from the random queue needs a carry. All but a few percent do though. I have done dozens and dozens, and I think in two of them was the player who specifically queued for that vet DLC dungeon actually capable of completing it. I've been a part of a few pug groups that have successfully completed a vet DLC dungeon, I think three, to be exact. All the others, at least two of the players were so bad and so unwilling to follow mechanics that it simply was not possible. This is overwhelmingly the experience that players have with getting a vet DLC dungeon as their random. So yes, it is a problem. Not being able to get your rewards because a selfish, talentless player who refuses to follow mechanics demands that you do a vet DLC for them is a far more legitimate complaint than having to wait and extra 15 minutes in dungeon finder when you specifically queued for a vet DLC dungeon. It's not even close.

ZOS_RikardD · June 2019

Greetings,

We have had to remove a number of comments from this thread for baiting or other nonconstructive commentary.

As the discussion here seems to be getting a little heated, please keep in mind our Community Rules and remember to keep comments constructive and civil.

Thank you for your understanding.

Olauron · June 2019

ZOS should just remove the DLC dungeons from the ESO+ since it diminishes the ESO+ value. Then only those who want DLC dungeons enough that they have bought them would run there random or not.

Red_Feather · June 2019

Last two randoms were Imperial City Prison and White Gold Tower. I wanted to leave group so bad and requeue.

Taleof2Cities · June 2019

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sure, not everyone opposed to removing vet DLC dungeons from the random queue needs a carry. All but a few percent do though. I have done dozens and dozens, and I think in two of them was the player who specifically queued for that vet DLC dungeon actually capable of completing it.

Riddle me this:

If a player knows they won’t (or can’t) complete a vet DLC dungeon ... shouldn’t they have some sort of awareness to queue for random normal instead?

MojaveHeld · June 2019

Absolutely, but that's not what actually happens. It's constantly abused by low-skill players trying to get carries from randoms and acting toxic when they don't. People like that aren't real prone to serious self-reflection and being realistic about their skill level.