The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!
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Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
The truth of the matter is that some players simply cannot develop the same skill as others. Character progression helps to diminish that difference. Some people have inferior computers or internet connections. Your "skill" is just another content gate with a different name. You're welcome to tell people that they don't deserve to play the game if they can't develop the skill. I think that's a jerk thing to do, though.
Objectively. Some content is already locked out. The completion rates of vMA and vet trials are really low. It's not a matter of "don't deserve", but the game's harder content can't be expected to be easily completed by anyone.
vMA can be completed at 300 CP, and I have seen people with 200 CP and a vMA weapon. Yet, the completion rate is less than 1%. It just shows the importance of the player skill over CP.
Sure, a bad computer and a bad internet connection is a handicap, but CP will not change that.
Some players can't develop the same skill as other right. That's a fact.
Some content is meant for very skilled players. An other fact.
Some players can't complete all the content. Is it unfair, yes, no, maybe, I don't know. That's not on Zenimax if you have bad hardware, they're doing their part by providing us with content for every skill level, and yet, when they release an arena, the hardest achievement is claimed day one by Hodor. Even with bad hardware you have enough content for years.Elwendryll wrote: »
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
But seriously, Playerprogression isnt really an incentive. I mean how long does a gamer need to learn a mmo-class. A day, maybe two?
It depends on people really. Some people discover that your max magicka increase the tooltip of your magicka abilities after reaching the CP cap. And skill is also knowing the mechanics of every dungeon, arena, trial, etc... I'm not even talking about pvp. Practicing a rotation for the first time can take some time too.
When I say CP have been detrimental to the game. I mean that the difficulty of the recent dungeons and some balance changes have been made around CP, making the DLC dungeons even more inaccessible to new players. And some class that were fine before got nerfed because of the impact of the CP on the general power. Because of the CP, some dungeons are designed insanely hard, while you can easily solo some vet dungeons HM. If they had less of an impact, it would make the content more skill based. As a result, base game dungeons would be less stupidly easy, and end game dungeons would be less insanely hard. Vet players would probably enjoy more the older content, and new players could enjoy latest dungeons by learning the mechanics and practicing, instead of having to grind 500 CP to reach the cap.
I'm not for a complete removal, but i'm glad they stopped increasing the cap, and I'm looking forward to see how they will change the system to alleviate the issues they acknowledged.Edited by Elwendryll on January 16, 2019 9:54AMPC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
The truth of the matter is that some players simply cannot develop the same skill as others. Character progression helps to diminish that difference. Some people have inferior computers or internet connections. Your "skill" is just another content gate with a different name. You're welcome to tell people that they don't deserve to play the game if they can't develop the skill. I think that's a jerk thing to do, though.
Objectively. Some content is already locked out. The completion rates of vMA and vet trials are really low. It's not a matter of "don't deserve", but the game's harder content can't be expected to be easily complete by anyone.
vMA can be completed at 300 CP, and I have seen people with 200 CP and a vMA weapon. Yet, the completion rate is less than 1%. It just shows the importance of the player skill over CP.
Sure, a bad computer and a bad internet connection is a handicap, but CP will not change that.
Some players can't develop the same skill as other right. That's a fact.
Some content is meant for very skilled players. An other fact.
Some players can't complete all the content. Is it unfair, yes, no, maybe, I don't know. That's not on Zenimax if you have bad hardware, they're doing their part by providing us with content for every skill level, and yet, when they release an arena, the hardest achievement is claimed day one by Hodor. Even with bad hardware you have enough content for years.Elwendryll wrote: »
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
But seriously, Playerprogression isnt really an incentive. I mean how long does a gamer need to learn a mmo-class. A day, maybe two?
It depends on people really. Some people discover that your max magicka increase the tooltip of your magicka abilities after reaching the CP cap. And skill is also knowing the mechanics of every dungeon, arena, trial, etc... I'm not even talking about pvp. Practicing a rotation for the first time can take some time too.
When I say CP have been detrimental to the game. I mean that the difficulty of the recent dungeons and some balance changes have been made around CP, making the DLC dungeons even more inaccessible to new players. And some class that were fine before got nerfed because of the impact of the CP on the general power. Because of the CP, some dungeons are designed insanely hard, while you can easily solo some vet dungeons HM. If they had less of an impact, it would make the content more skill based. As a result, base game dungeons would be less stupidly easy, and end game dungeons would be less insanely hard. Vet players would probably enjoy more the older content, and new players could enjoy latest dungeons by learning the mechanics and practicing, instead of having to grind 500 CP to reach the cap.
I'm not for a complete removal, but i'm glad they stopped increasing the cap, and I'm looking forward to see how they will change the system to alleviate the issues they acknowledged.
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 10:08AM6 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?
That's simple. I'm totally fine with vMA that requires me to learn mechanics for weeks before being able to complete it. I'm less fine with dungeons where trash mobs can OS you if you don't have enough CP. There are two kinds of difficulties, a mechanical difficulty, and a pure power difference difficulty. If you see what I mean?
All the content should be accessible as long as you reached the 300 CP mark. But some should have a steep learning curve and require practice, but still be feasible if you invest some time. I'm saying that some dungeons, even if you have all the mechanics nailed down, are just insanely hard if you're not high CP enough, and that's not right.Edited by Elwendryll on January 16, 2019 10:22AMPC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH1 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?
That's simple. I'm totally fine with vMA that requires me to learn mechanics for weeks before being able to complete it. I'm less fine with dungeons where trash mobs can OS you if you don't have enough CP. There are two kinds of difficulties, a mechanical difficulty, and a pure power difference difficulty. If you see what I mean?
No, I don't see what you mean. You're willing to put in the work to learn the mechanics, but you're not willing to put in the work to earn the CP points that will prevent you from being one shot by trash mobs?6 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭so there you stand in front of the boss, no CP anymore, skills, weapons, racials all got nerfed and leeched since years..........
what do you do?
run, like the ones in the trailer? wipe and wipe and wipe and wipe..........
and all your progress of the last years down the drain, nothing to shine, if you go back to the vet-Boss you already killed so many times, you will wipe, over and over...........
and that is the point where most will say: No longer interested..........10 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?
That's simple. I'm totally fine with vMA that requires me to learn mechanics for weeks before being able to complete it. I'm less fine with dungeons where trash mobs can OS you if you don't have enough CP. There are two kinds of difficulties, a mechanical difficulty, and a pure power difference difficulty. If you see what I mean?
No, I don't see what you mean. You're willing to put in the work to learn the mechanics, but you're not willing to put in the work to earn the CP points that will prevent you from being one shot by trash mobs?
😑
I have developed all I had to say, have a nice day. And I truly hope you will not be too disappointed by the future changes to come about CP.Edited by Elwendryll on January 16, 2019 10:44AMPC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH3 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?
That's simple. I'm totally fine with vMA that requires me to learn mechanics for weeks before being able to complete it. I'm less fine with dungeons where trash mobs can OS you if you don't have enough CP. There are two kinds of difficulties, a mechanical difficulty, and a pure power difference difficulty. If you see what I mean?
All the content should be accessible as long as you reached the 300 CP mark. But some should have a steep learning curve and require practice, but still be feasible if you invest some time. I'm saying that some dungeons, even if you have all the mechanics nailed down, are just insanely hard if you're not high CP enough, and that's not right.
and that is just the point:
YOU DON´T HAVE ANY CP ANYMORE! YOU WILL DIE!!!1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?
That's simple. I'm totally fine with vMA that requires me to learn mechanics for weeks before being able to complete it. I'm less fine with dungeons where trash mobs can OS you if you don't have enough CP. There are two kinds of difficulties, a mechanical difficulty, and a pure power difference difficulty. If you see what I mean?
No, I don't see what you mean. You're willing to put in the work to learn the mechanics, but you're not willing to put in the work to earn the CP points that will prevent you from being one shot by trash mobs?
Got to admit, I'm confused too.
@Elwendryll is not advocating total removal of CP, but limiting its impact -- I think.
This is where we go from what I understand. Designing dungeons and trials around
(a) mechanics only rather than
(b) mob/boss resistance + health and then adding in mechanics.
The former is a way to deliver content for static skill (i.e. you must learn the mechanics and follow to the letter to complete it), the latter is scaled against player power where increased power = easier completion, but lower power means mechanics must be more closely observed. Which is more reflective of player skill?
(a) The robotic repetition of a sequence of events [no CP]
(b) the robotic repetition of a sequence of button presses [CP > cap]
(c) requirement for both [low - mid, < CP]
Current content design targets option c, with the reality being that b is achievable for many over time.Edited by mairwen85 on January 16, 2019 10:46AM1 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »
I'm a little confused. At one point you say some content shouldn't be available to everyone based on their skill. Later you said CP makes dungeons harder as if that's a bad thing. What do you want? Difficult content that people can't do or easier content that more people can do?
That's simple. I'm totally fine with vMA that requires me to learn mechanics for weeks before being able to complete it. I'm less fine with dungeons where trash mobs can OS you if you don't have enough CP. There are two kinds of difficulties, a mechanical difficulty, and a pure power difference difficulty. If you see what I mean?
No, I don't see what you mean. You're willing to put in the work to learn the mechanics, but you're not willing to put in the work to earn the CP points that will prevent you from being one shot by trash mobs?
Got to admit, I'm confused too.
@Elwendryll is not advocating total removal of CP, but limiting its impact -- I think.
Designing dungeons and trials around (a) mechanics only rather than (b) mob/boss resistance + health and then adding in mechanics. The former is a way to deliver content for static skill (i.e. you must learn the mechanics and follow to the letter to complete it), the latter is scaled against player power where increased power = easier completion, but lower power means mechanics must be more closely observed. Which is more reflective of player skill? (a) The robotic repetition of a sequence of events [no CP], or (b) the robotic repetition of a sequence of button presses [high CP], or (c) requirement for both [low CP]. Current content design targets option c, with the reality being that b is achievable for many in time.
be honest, most of the players don´t have time enough to learn this and that!!!
they wanna rush in, kill it, get a reward and move on, not investing weeks, months and years in learning and understanding mechanics, skills aso.
players pay to have fun, not to have no fun while they have to "learn and understand".
it is not their daily bread, it is about having fun and joyfull time.6 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is where we go from what I understand. Designing dungeons and trials around
(a) mechanics only rather than
(b) mob/boss resistance + health and then adding in mechanics.
The former is a way to deliver content for static skill (i.e. you must learn the mechanics and follow to the letter to complete it), the latter is scaled against player power where increased power = easier completion, but lower power means mechanics must be more closely observed. Which is more reflective of player skill?
(a) The robotic repetition of a sequence of events [no CP]
(b) the robotic repetition of a sequence of button presses [CP > cap]
(c) requirement for both [low - mid, < CP]
Current content design targets option c, with the reality being that b is achievable for many over time.
The problem is the option b. At some point you don't have to pay attention to mechanics at all anymore. The CP system is fine until you can ignore mechanics, and CPs are enough to clear the content alone.
PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH0 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭
be honest, most of the players don´t have time enough to learn this and that!!!
they wanna rush in, kill it, get a reward and move on, not investing weeks, months and years in learning and understanding mechanics, skills aso.
players pay to have fun, not to have no fun while they have to "learn and understand".
it is not their daily bread, it is about having fun and joyfull time.
RP, housing, questing, delves, normal dungeons are fun, and don't require to invest a lot of time. There is content for everyone. Including people that want to invest time.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »
This is where we go from what I understand. Designing dungeons and trials around
(a) mechanics only rather than
(b) mob/boss resistance + health and then adding in mechanics.
The former is a way to deliver content for static skill (i.e. you must learn the mechanics and follow to the letter to complete it), the latter is scaled against player power where increased power = easier completion, but lower power means mechanics must be more closely observed. Which is more reflective of player skill?
(a) The robotic repetition of a sequence of events [no CP]
(b) the robotic repetition of a sequence of button presses [CP > cap]
(c) requirement for both [low - mid, < CP]
Current content design targets option c, with the reality being that b is achievable for many over time.
The problem is the option b. At some point you don't have to pay attention to mechanics at all anymore. The CP system is fine until you can ignore mechanics, and CPs are enough to clear the content alone.
Gotcha. I can agree with that. CP is OP currently (not denying that at all) and pushes many players beyond the limitations of what the content is supposed to enforce. But, that is also a reflection of progression... having out skilled the content first, you overcome it with less obstacles because of power increase. The situation only arises when players are already over cap when new content arrives -- and that is the reality of where we are now: so many players are so far beyond the cap that the content will not catch up, and this punishes lower CP players by expecting them to play and skill up where others don't have to(!)
Hence my suggestions.
If nothing from my ideas, then a temporary freeze on cap increase; maybe even stalling CP between cap increases will still be a better solution than nuking the system entirely.Edited by mairwen85 on January 16, 2019 11:30AM2 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If nothing from my ideas, then a temporary freeze on cap increase; maybe even stalling CP between cap increases will still be a better solution than nuking the system entirely.
I was fine with the CP system, but the cap went too high. So I'm glad they're freezing the increase. I'm not for a removal at all.
CP should be balanced around content, and not the other way around, that's all. And classes shouldn't be altered to make up for the power creep caused by CP.
PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »
If nothing from my ideas, then a temporary freeze on cap increase; maybe even stalling CP between cap increases will still be a better solution than nuking the system entirely.
I was fine with the CP system, but the cap went too high. So I'm glad they're freezing the increase. I'm not for a removal at all.
CP should be balanced around content, and not the other way around, that's all. And classes shouldn't be altered to make up for the power creep caused by CP.
Agreed.
CP needs revising, be that via expansion, or, dare I say it, nerfing, but also not to the detriment of content or players (cap+ or not) -- ball's in ZOS' court so cross every appendage and digit you have that we get something nice
Edited by mairwen85 on January 16, 2019 11:29AM0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »
This is where we go from what I understand. Designing dungeons and trials around
(a) mechanics only rather than
(b) mob/boss resistance + health and then adding in mechanics.
The former is a way to deliver content for static skill (i.e. you must learn the mechanics and follow to the letter to complete it), the latter is scaled against player power where increased power = easier completion, but lower power means mechanics must be more closely observed. Which is more reflective of player skill?
(a) The robotic repetition of a sequence of events [no CP]
(b) the robotic repetition of a sequence of button presses [CP > cap]
(c) requirement for both [low - mid, < CP]
Current content design targets option c, with the reality being that b is achievable for many over time.
The problem is the option b. At some point you don't have to pay attention to mechanics at all anymore. The CP system is fine until you can ignore mechanics, and CPs are enough to clear the content alone.
Gotcha. I can agree with that. CP is OP @cap and pushes many players beyond the limitations of what the content is supposed to enforce. But, that is also a reflection of progression... having out skilled the content first, you overcome it with less obstacles because of power increase. The situation only arises when so many players are already over cap when new content arrives -- and that is the reality of where we are now: so many players are far beyond the cap that the content will not catch up, and this punishes lower CP players by expecting them to play and skill up where others don't have to.
Hence my solutions
If nothing from my ideas, then a temporary freeze on cap increase; maybe even stalling CP between cap increases will still be a better solution than nuking the system entirely.
I thought they had increased acceleration of earning CP points for newer players. If it's too slow, speed it up. If it's too fast, slow it down. I still think that some work should be put into earning it. I'm not at cap yet and I actually enjoy the effort of and the rewards of earning it. I'm not rushing it. I'm not grinding cp points. I'm enjoying the game as it is now (with minor quibbles here and there) and looking forward to the new content.
This whole debate, to me, is like going into a dungeon pug with speed runners. They all just want to get to the end as quickly as possible and I'm over here looking in corners for chests, reading lore books if I haven't already, and looking in urns for motifs, patterns, or recipes. One of the reasons I like getting stronger with CP is that I can go into a dungeon solo and do all those things without feeling like I'm ruining other people's games.
Taking away character progression would ruin the way I like to play the game. So be it, if that's what it comes to.2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Lol NC soft Is bleeding money on that game it's the other mmo they have with vertical progession that is keeping them afloat . And that games player base is eastern continent1 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »
If nothing from my ideas, then a temporary freeze on cap increase; maybe even stalling CP between cap increases will still be a better solution than nuking the system entirely.
I was fine with the CP system, but the cap went too high. So I'm glad they're freezing the increase. I'm not for a removal at all.
CP should be balanced around content, and not the other way around, that's all. And classes shouldn't be altered to make up for the power creep caused by CP.
I'm not trying to be cheeky here, but how have classes been altered by CP? I hear balancing debates in EVERY mmo I have ever played. How is this different? It's usually due to PVP, which I don't play.
If people want games that are purely based on skill, why not just have characters that all have the same stats and weapons? That would be the truest test of skill. It wouldn't be a role playing game, but it would be skill based.
One of my annoyances with the game is that they gave us a couple of great pet classes, but my pets are often unwelcome in higher difficulty content. Could this be fixed by taking away CP or is it just another sacrifice I have to make so other people enjoy the game more? (Okay, that last part was a bit cheeky.)Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 11:49AM1 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭CP gives tanks so much damage mitigation that wearing protective sets is seen as redundant or selfish. You can basically tank anything in medium and heavy armour and be close to the resistance cap.0 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »
I was fine with the CP system, but the cap went too high. So I'm glad they're freezing the increase. I'm not for a removal at all.
CP should be balanced around content, and not the other way around, that's all. And classes shouldn't be altered to make up for the power creep caused by CP.
I'm not trying to be cheeky here, but how have classes been altered by CP? I hear balancing debates in EVERY mmo I have ever played. How is this different? It's usually due to PVP, which I don't play.
One of my annoyances with the game is that they gave us a couple of great pet classes, but my pets are often unwelcome in higher difficulty content. Could this be fixed by taking away CP or is it just another sacrifice I have to make so other people enjoy the game more? (Okay, that last part was a bit cheeky.)
An example like that. Overload light attack damage being reduced. Because it was scaling off light attack damage, direct damage, shock damage, crit damage, etc... all increased by CPs. Leading to absurd 1 shots in cyrodiil with gank builds. In no CP it was totally fine.
Pets are mostly fine now, most bugs have been resolved. Are they still banned in your trial groups?PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's a lazy fix, not impressed.
What they should have done is make new difficulties accounting for cp, but i guess it's too much to ask to actually follow up to the systems you make.
And people are glad about this, Jesus Christ, talk about low standards.
power creep is a real issues that damages combat in games like this. so looking to remedy that is a good thing. and they are allowed to rethink systems once created.
Power creep only happens when the content doesn't keep up, so how do you solve it?
2 methods, either nerf everything, or make new harder content.5 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »
One of my annoyances with the game is that they gave us a couple of great pet classes, but my pets are often unwelcome in higher difficulty content. Could this be fixed by taking away CP or is it just another sacrifice I have to make so other people enjoy the game more? (Okay, that last part was a bit cheeky.)
Pets are mostly fine now, most bugs have been resolved. Are they still banned in your trial groups?
Banned may not be the right word but strongly discouraged would be accurate.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.
My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!
What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?
You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.
You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.
There is a way.
You know what, you may not like progressions systems, but many do, that "meaningless" % point, not everyone thinks like you, i realize that problems that cp brings, but, the real culprit here is zos failure to follow up to the system, resorting to nerfs rather than making new difficulties that account for cp.
This is not a failure of the cp system, it's a failure from zos.
This also tells me to me again and again, that they don;t really care about making a good game, they wanna make the bare minimum, to keep the game going.
Also, we can have both vertical and horizontal progression, the cp system provides vertical, and also, a possible increase in the cp rank, and horizontal progression could be provided by adding new skills, like a new skilline for each class, which would be appreciated, a skilline will also give vertical progression as well as horizontal.Edited by JinMori on January 16, 2019 12:58PM3 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just remove them from PvP and let us in PvE keep our points.
I get so tired of PvP'ers ruining things for PvE. (Here's looking at you light armor grace which is utterly useless for PvE).Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »
If nothing from my ideas, then a temporary freeze on cap increase; maybe even stalling CP between cap increases will still be a better solution than nuking the system entirely.
I was fine with the CP system, but the cap went too high. So I'm glad they're freezing the increase. I'm not for a removal at all.
CP should be balanced around content, and not the other way around, that's all. And classes shouldn't be altered to make up for the power creep caused by CP.
I'm not trying to be cheeky here, but how have classes been altered by CP? I hear balancing debates in EVERY mmo I have ever played. How is this different? It's usually due to PVP, which I don't play.
If people want games that are purely based on skill, why not just have characters that all have the same stats and weapons? That would be the truest test of skill. It wouldn't be a role playing game, but it would be skill based.
One of my annoyances with the game is that they gave us a couple of great pet classes, but my pets are often unwelcome in higher difficulty content. Could this be fixed by taking away CP or is it just another sacrifice I have to make so other people enjoy the game more? (Okay, that last part was a bit cheeky.)
Classes have been nerfed over what CP can do to them. The class becomes super powerful such as Templars in light armor basically at max resistances.
So of course people want templar nerfed because it is op that they can be a tank DPS and healer all in one. But in reality they are only op because the skill points made them that way.
Templar, night blade, sorc, dragon knight (constantly) gets nerfed. Now if they remove CP down the line they need to adjust all the class moves that got nerfed because the class skills will suck but these classes are going to lose so much with their CP.
You can argue this till your blue in the face but obviously zos sees what I have been saying on this forum for a very long time.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »An MMO with no form of progression is an MMO that will not hold my attention much longer. Simple as that. The game will truly feel like a chore to play rather than something to do out of enjoyment. This game is turning more and more into a virtual world social networking platform. People already sit idle in Craglorn, Cyrodiil, etc. just to socialize. Now there is less reason to actually play the game. GG!
What feels like a chore is constantly grinding up meaningless champion points. Regrinding all the guild skills and passives on every new character and build I make.
I never get bored in this game. There is always some crazy build i'm thinking of that I want to make. The part that makes me want to quit is when there is a huge unnecessary grind wall between me and the outcome I want.
If I could easily just gear and level all my characters i'd have so many cool builds to play. People that need some silly point system to guide them seem to lack any imagination. Grinding up points is the thing you do before you get to have fun, not the fun in itself.
It's not a chore, because you grind them passively as you do content, you can make it a chore, but why? there is no reason for it.
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not incresing cp cap would be fine only if they would stop nerfing literally everything every major update (and I guess this time will be no different).
Do we actally know what they are going to do with CP system ?1 -
ZOS_RikardDadminGreetings,
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