Volkodav wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

They made a choice to pay to win

I made a choice to not pay to win

By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.

But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.

How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.

How do you "win" in general?
What is the achievement that makes you the winner?

Right.
I have never thought about "winning ESO.I just think a bout playing it until it ends.But,..it doesnt end,so I keep playing. XD

I just keep seeing the "it's P2W

To each their own,I guess.BUT,..can you explain how it is P2W for me so I can understand your thinking about it?
Not being snarky either.

Volkodav wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

TieFighter wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

The player base hasn't ruined this game. Get off the forums once in a while and actually talk with people in game, 90% of them don't give a damn about this kind of petty arguing.

you obviously havent been around to see all the changes that were made due to the player base who didnt stick around anyways. 90% of those people dont do anything constructive in the game like speaking in the forums. this is where its supposed to be resolved, not in game zonechat.

I obviously have been around since beta and you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

He is pretty good at throwing around numbers,isnt he,dimensional.
No one but ZOS knows the amount of people who left the game,or have stayed.
The reason most of the players dont post in the forums is because they arent interested in all the arguing and crap.They are too busy playing the game.

GaldorP wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

Crafting bags would right now open up about 200 item slots in my bank. They're basically an additional bank for crafting mats that gets accessed automatically from any location on all characters without any limit to item slots you can realistically ever reach while the previous existing bank system is limited to 240 item slots and can only be accessed at banker NPCs. Crafting Bags are a feature that completely changes how inventory and bank item management works.

Limiting such an important feature to just subscribers does feel kinda wrong in a B2P game where you also have the option to permanently buy DLCs instead of subscribing. Sure, it's just convenience, you can play the game without Crafting Bags, but this time the convenience factor is so huge, it saves any active crafter/mat farmer a considerable amount of their play time and those who don't have access to it will waste hours on inventory and bank space management every week which they could have saved if they had access to Crafting Bags.

Give ESO+ subscribers better XP, inspiration, and research time bonuses, priority access to Cyrodiil campaigns at population cap, reduced fee when selling something in the guild store, and all this in addition to unlimited access to all DLCs and 1'500 crowns per month! But don't make a system like Crafting Bags which completely changes how inventory and bank space management works exclusive to subscribers.

First of all access to DLCs and 1500 crowns per month are not perks. Thats the base service you pay for when you sub. Remove either and noone subscribes. Even with those 2 things you get less bang for your buck with a sub than with purchasing content piece by piece. Even more so if you consider crown sales.

Better XP, inspiration, research time bonuses, etc. are all things that on one hand fall in the p2w category of perks (if theyre actually high enough to make a meaningful difference) and on the other become worthless over time. Priority access to Cyrodil is similar. For players who dont pvp it would be worthless (also for low pop campaigns) and people who do pvp but dont sub would feel like 2nd class customers.

As someone who's bought all 3 previous DLCs with crowns I feel cheated. There's a game-changing new inventory/bank/item management feature and I won't have access to it unless I subscribe which I'm certainly not going to do now having bought all previous DLCs for crowns. ZOS offered 2 different payment options for new content since the game went B2P: subscription or one-time purchase of DLCs. Now, one of them is clearly inferior and they're trying to force more people into subbing. I feel cheated having chosen the wrong payment option and now being forced into using the other if I want access to a game-changing new feature.

Here's what I don't get:

Yes, you bought the previous DLCs instead of subscribing, but did you take some kind of pledge that you'll never subscribe? You played the DLCs over the last year and paid for the privilege just like subs did, but you didn't buy every DLC that the future holds. If you subscribe now you'll get access to new DLCs as they come out without having to buy them as well as the other perks, and subscribing will not in any way deprive you of the ones you previously bought.

How does the fact that you've bought at least one DLC in the past make you married to the non-sub model forever?

If I subscribe now, I don't benefit from one of the main perks of a subscription: access to all DLCs 'cause I already have that. So I'd have to pay for the subscription just for 1500 crowns (which I don't really want) and Crafting Bags. The other perks have no meaning to me since I've researched everything, am at Champion Rank 501+. Sorry, but I'm not going to pay for a subscription just for Crafting Bags (which is such an important feature that it should be part of the base game/obtainable in the game).

TieFighter wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

TieFighter wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

TieFighter wrote: »

the tradeskill bag is super sad, but for the sake of the lesser players im glad for them. just dissapointed that i see the player base ruin every game ive showed interest in.

@TieFighter your comment does not make sense.

with tradeskill bag it ruins parts of the game like saving up to buy bank spaces/bag spaces which was a challenge to do because it played a major role in how successful you were as a tradeskiller.

Wrong.

okay i'll bust out the crayolas and draw it out for you, what's the difference of a player who worked hard to earn max bank spaces and bag spaces for tradeskill items compared to a player that doesnt? people who couldnt afford to hold onto all tradeskill items were at the mercy of other players to produce, immediately, what they seeked. players want what they need immediately but who's problem is that? so when games keep pandering to such ideas it takes away from the challenge and turns the game into a shooting star which will burn out at sometime because next thing you know we will be buying level 50 toons with a certain amount of cp on him/her. we may be far from that but tradeskill bags is getting us there.

TieFighter wrote: »

okay i'll bust out the crayolas and draw it out for you, what's the difference of a player who worked hard to earn max bank spaces and bag spaces for tradeskill items compared to a player that doesnt? people who couldnt afford to hold onto all tradeskill items were at the mercy of other players to produce, immediately, what they seeked. players want what they need immediately but who's problem is that? so when games keep pandering to such ideas it takes away from the challenge and turns the game into a shooting star which will burn out at sometime because next thing you know we will be buying level 50 toons with a certain amount of cp on him/her. we may be far from that but tradeskill bags is getting us there.

GaldorP wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

Crafting bags would right now open up about 200 item slots in my bank. They're basically an additional bank for crafting mats that gets accessed automatically from any location on all characters without any limit to item slots you can realistically ever reach while the previous existing bank system is limited to 240 item slots and can only be accessed at banker NPCs. Crafting Bags are a feature that completely changes how inventory and bank item management works.

Limiting such an important feature to just subscribers does feel kinda wrong in a B2P game where you also have the option to permanently buy DLCs instead of subscribing. Sure, it's just convenience, you can play the game without Crafting Bags, but this time the convenience factor is so huge, it saves any active crafter/mat farmer a considerable amount of their play time and those who don't have access to it will waste hours on inventory and bank space management every week which they could have saved if they had access to Crafting Bags.

Give ESO+ subscribers better XP, inspiration, and research time bonuses, priority access to Cyrodiil campaigns at population cap, reduced fee when selling something in the guild store, and all this in addition to unlimited access to all DLCs and 1'500 crowns per month! But don't make a system like Crafting Bags which completely changes how inventory and bank space management works exclusive to subscribers.

First of all access to DLCs and 1500 crowns per month are not perks. Thats the base service you pay for when you sub. Remove either and noone subscribes. Even with those 2 things you get less bang for your buck with a sub than with purchasing content piece by piece. Even more so if you consider crown sales.

Better XP, inspiration, research time bonuses, etc. are all things that on one hand fall in the p2w category of perks (if theyre actually high enough to make a meaningful difference) and on the other become worthless over time. Priority access to Cyrodil is similar. For players who dont pvp it would be worthless (also for low pop campaigns) and people who do pvp but dont sub would feel like 2nd class customers.

As someone who's bought all 3 previous DLCs with crowns I feel cheated. There's a game-changing new inventory/bank/item management feature and I won't have access to it unless I subscribe which I'm certainly not going to do now having bought all previous DLCs for crowns. ZOS offered 2 different payment options for new content since the game went B2P: subscription or one-time purchase of DLCs. Now, one of them is clearly inferior and they're trying to force more people into subbing. I feel cheated having chosen the wrong payment option and now being forced into using the other if I want access to a game-changing new feature.

Here's what I don't get:

Yes, you bought the previous DLCs instead of subscribing, but did you take some kind of pledge that you'll never subscribe? You played the DLCs over the last year and paid for the privilege just like subs did, but you didn't buy every DLC that the future holds. If you subscribe now you'll get access to new DLCs as they come out without having to buy them as well as the other perks, and subscribing will not in any way deprive you of the ones you previously bought.

How does the fact that you've bought at least one DLC in the past make you married to the non-sub model forever?

If I subscribe now, I don't benefit from one of the main perks of a subscription: access to all DLCs 'cause I already have that. So I'd have to pay for the subscription just for 1500 crowns (which I don't really want) and Crafting Bags. The other perks have no meaning to me since I've researched everything, am at Champion Rank 501+. Sorry, but I'm not going to pay for a subscription just for Crafting Bags (which is such an important feature that it should be part of the base game/obtainable in the game).

Volkodav wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

You want other ways to make ESO+ worthwhile @Cherryblossom ?

How about...

• 10% Public Crown Store discount: This would entice players to buy more as subscribers!
• Ownership of DLC as Loyalty Bonuses over time For every 3 consecutive months players are subscribed they get a "DLC Token" That token can be spent on the DLC or the Token + 2000 Crowns can be spent on the collectors edition.
• Able to join up to 10 Guilds Players who subscribe should be able to join more guilds than those who do not. The additional guilds should be under the "subscriber guilds" and should be clear as to which the player will loose access to if they unsubscribe.
• Additional Character slots Players should have access to additional character slots, which they loose access to if they unsubscribe. I think 2-4 additional slots would be cool.
• Priority queuing when entering game and zoning: Subscribers should be at the front of the line to get into the game and to move from one area to another.
• Access to a subscriber-exclusive area of the Crown Store. In a special subscriber-only area of the crown store players will still have to buy items with Crowns but the 10% Subscriber discount should NOT apply to these items. ALL players should be able to view the Subscriber Crown Store, but only Subscribers should be able to buy from it. Additionally, this could include the following 3 features.
  • 1 month early access to all Costumes and Mounts: Giving a month's early access to Costumes and Mounts will do a lot to make subscriptions desirable. Subscribers who buy these items early will not get the 10% crown store discount.
  • 5 day early access to all DLC expansions: Giving 5 days early access will entice players who feel like they must play the newest content right away won't be able to resist subscribing!
  • Longer access to limited time items: ZOS could add limited sale items to the ESO+ section of the crown store one week early... and take them out one week later.
  • More frequent Limited Item Rotation: If ZOS is planning to have a specific item only available one time a year in the Crown Store, it could be available one additional time per year in the ESO+ section of the crown store.
• Monthly Subscriber Treasure Maps: Each month, Subscribers should get at least 1 map (1 in each faction would be nice) that leads players to treasures. These treasures could include things like special subscriber hats and subscriber exclusive clothing that don't have any stats.
• Assistant Summons: Subscribers should get the ability to summon both the Merchant and the Banker. This ability would come with a cooldown. Maybe it's 24 hours... maybe it's longer.

Not to poop on your suggestions but, none of those are especially appealing to me.
I subscribe because I'm not super excited about the Crown Store or having to make purchases. Giving me discounts and larger windows to make purchases doesn't incentivize me at all since a significant reason I subscribe is to avoid the Crown store.

I'm confused. You said you sub because you are NOT excited about the crown store or having to make purchases.Also this:
"Giving me discounts and larger windows to make purchases doesn't incentivize me at all since a significant reason I subscribe is to avoid the Crown store."
So why do you sub?
Please dont think I am being rude.I am just a little confused.

xeroflare357 wrote: »

i can see all points of view on this but the main point that i am tryinto figure out is why make a game FTP if your goin to make items for only subscribers it makes no sense at all. didnt zos say they were gettin rid of the subscription when they rereleased tamriel unlimited or was that just my imagination, no they did say it and that it was goin ftp with a crown store . i dont mind puttin items in the crown store that aesthetically affect game play but there should be something for the FTP players who dont wanna rent dlcs and instead buy them just as craft bags for eso+ subs FTP players should get something similar . not sayin they should get the same quality but similar.

Taisynn wrote: »

Guys, this argument isn't going away anytime soon. I disagree with the people saying it's P2W and the like, but please don't get this thead locked. They will make a new thread and these circular arguments will continue. At least let the mods confine them to ONE THREAD.

@FLuFFyxMuFFiN @dimensional