Personofsecrets wrote: »Honestly, buying BIS items would be much more satisfying and productive than grinding for them anyhow. I guess that I should just enjoy the decline.
clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (That this thread is still going)
MasterSpatula wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »This whole issue is so devisive it does neither 'side' any favours and frankly some of the attitudes shown leave a bad taste in the mouth. The whole debacle has left me less than enamoured with this game & its players, even more than all the PVE /PVP nerf rubbish that is one of the main whinges.
Same here @Hallothiel ... ZOS' actions (not just this, but others) have made me question the integrity of the future of ESO and the attitudes presented on this thread really makes me question if I want to be participate with this community much longer.
Hmm... ZOS better be thanking the Divines this is a TES game...
Man, just enough with the ascribing nefarious intent. "Shady," "manipulative," "made me question the integrity..."
If you ever are so convinced you're right that your opponent has to be a bad person, you need to take a step back and engage your empathy.
aubrey.baconb16_ESO wrote: »Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)
Nope. It's a commercial decision by ZOS. If anyone decides to stop playing because of this then they weren't very interested anyway. If it doesn't have the commercial impact ZOS anticipates then it may become a Crown Store item. We'll see.
Bluepitbull13 wrote: »lmaol how is crafting bags P2W? how is crafting bags going to help me get better deeps/heals/aggro in trials/dungeons? or help me win 1vX's in pvp?
Oh you mean ill be winning at the crafting table? my writs are going to win soo hard! <-- (btw that's sarcasm, you know who you are)
Lucius_Aelius wrote: »I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.
I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.
This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.
Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.
If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
Bluepitbull13 wrote: »lmaol how is crafting bags P2W? how is crafting bags going to help me get better deeps/heals/aggro in trials/dungeons? or help me win 1vX's in pvp?
Oh you mean ill be winning at the crafting table? my writs are going to win soo hard! <-- (btw that's sarcasm, you know who you are)
Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
for future behaviour?
I've no interest in supporting this games development any further at all, there are better games to spend my money on and while I've no interest or need for the craft bags myself I can understand people asking for an alterative such as extending slots beyond the 240 cap etc.
From what I see you're all seemingly trying to convince yourselves that craftiing bags are worth $120 a year lol
It's you perogatives and your money to do with as you all wish but I'm quite happy to sit back and play ESO on server time all of your subs are paying for from now on.
Thanks I guess
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.
ShedsHisTail wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.
How do you "win" in general?
What is the achievement that makes you the winner?
ShedsHisTail wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.
How do you "win" in general?
What is the achievement that makes you the winner?
Right.
I have never thought about "winning ESO.I just think a bout playing it until it ends.But,..it doesnt end,so I keep playing. XD
ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.
How do you "win" in general?
What is the achievement that makes you the winner?
Right.
I have never thought about "winning ESO.I just think a bout playing it until it ends.But,..it doesnt end,so I keep playing. XD
I just keep seeing the "it's P2W
@Volkodav I don't think anyone besides Personofsecrets thinks it's P2W. I'm beginning to think even Personofsecrets has no idea what they are talking about. Their post makes little to no sense to me.
ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.
How do you "win" in general?
What is the achievement that makes you the winner?
Right.
I have never thought about "winning ESO.I just think a bout playing it until it ends.But,..it doesnt end,so I keep playing. XD
I just keep seeing the "it's P2W
To each their own,I guess.BUT,..can you explain how it is P2W for me so I can understand your thinking about it?
Not being snarky either.
I agree with you 100%.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.
I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.
They made a choice to pay to win
I made a choice to not pay to win
By no definition based in logic is the crafting bag P2W. It has absolutely zero effect on playability or strength in combat of any character. It's merely storage. To suggest this is P2W is absurd at best.
But...but, it IS P2W. You know, somehow.
How will you win because you have a craft bag? Will it fight for you,or is it a really OP weapon? OR,..is it OP armor you throw over your head.
How do you "win" in general?
What is the achievement that makes you the winner?
Right.
I have never thought about "winning ESO.I just think a bout playing it until it ends.But,..it doesnt end,so I keep playing. XD
I just keep seeing the "it's P2W
To each their own,I guess.BUT,..can you explain how it is P2W for me so I can understand your thinking about it?
Not being snarky either.
yes to everyone can define anything as they see fit. That doesn't make their definition correct.
No one will be able to scale higher in the leaderboards, kills more players, do more damage or sustain more damage as a result. This bag has ZERO effect on a characters playability as as such would not be defined as P2W by a rational, logically thinking mind.
It's a desperate move to call this bag a P2W item.
Cherryblossom wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.
I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.
This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.
Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.
If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.
You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.
This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.
If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.
Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.