Solo Endgame needed - Must Group Must End.

Theosis · March 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

If the OP isn't going to join groups to run veteran dungeons, raids and trials, why does he want the gear he can acquire soloing to be as good as endgame raid gear? That makes zero sense. Crafted gear is more than good enough to complete any solo content in the game, which is ridiculously easy already. I stopped upgrading my crafted gear while working on VR levels just to make the game more challenging. Also, expecting gear that you can acquire easily solo to be as good as the gear it takes a raid team working together, often failing multiple times before they succeed is beyond silly. Be content with the quality of gear you earned by yourself

~sigh~

please read what I just posted

Rune_Relic · March 2015

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Please don't take Craglorn as an example for "group content not being a good idea" as the issue here is about quests getting instanced, which was a pretty bad idea...not the fact that you have to be 3 or 4 to do it.

I agree with others on the MMO part, even though leveling in ESO is mostly solo stuff, high-level content should not be or it will clearly have no sense at all. Can you imagine doing any of the existing end-game dungeon alone ? It would be so boring and clearly less fun than playing any other single-player game and everyone should be a healer/tank/dps kind of guy.

Yes. The fun comes form the challenge and the adventure.
Whether I am alone or with a group is all good.
If you are with close knit friends that wait for you and watch your back its probably even more fun.
If you are with demanding pugs who shout you down and get you wiped its not.

Armes · March 2015

Turelus wrote: »

Pure solo players shouldn't every be the primary focus of an MMO game, because a majority of the players come to play the game with others to overcome hard group challenges.

In statistic from some Korean gamer magazine are hard group challenges less and less favourite. And yes Asian market with MMO is one of the biggest. Equally less and less people in WoW is interesting in higher level raids.
The option is do the game, where all can coexist together and megaserver technology with capability fazing all in the game can do it. Developers can gain an advantage over another MMO and attract bigger player base than only "typical" MMO players.

wOOOOt_of_SD · March 2015

OP dont like a lot of Things. Maybe its the MMO part you don't like...

Because i'm a MMO player, and I don't like all the solo story pve questing we are forced to do,
to get to the PVP endgame.

That being said, im always for more choices, more new content and something to do for everyone.
Some harder solo content would be cool.

But then Again, go Craglorn solo, there's a bit more challenge for you.
Not hard enough? do it with no armor on.

eventide03b14a_ESO · March 2015

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I don't like Teamspeak - I understand why people use it, but my living situation doesn't permit it. I always have music playing, a girlfriend I am talking too, and other things going on - and hearing everyone's bad jokes and opinions about everything coming through my speakers wrecks my immersion and makes it feel like I am no longer playing for my own fun, but to appease others.

The solution?

Solo Endgame Content which provides THE SAME QUALITY of reward as group endgame content. The specific items which are granted through these endeavors should have the same potency as group endgame content. Much of the game is already ruined for me and the only thing that can "save it" for me is being able to play how I want to, and that means getting equal reward for my work. Not V10 items or V12 items or whatever that is obsolete as yesterday's trash.

I also want this content to be challenging - I feel having nobody there to save you provides the first challenge.

I like an open world like this, inhabited by many players I can choose to interact with - but I don't want to be forced to perform things I hate doing to be allowed to compete in PVP. The main reason I would play this game again is to enjoy the endgame PVP, and solo content. Crafting, Harvesting and Creating. And, I want a full experience in this - I don't want my experience diminished because I don't enjoy the "Forced Must Group Always" logic.

I think any good MMO needs to have to plenty of solo content, but that shouldn't be the only thing it offers either. What you are complaining about is not invalid, but like others have said it seems more like you want a completely solo experience. That's not really the point of an MMO. I feel like ESO has as much solo content, arguably more than it does group content. It is possible to solo in Cyrodiil, and you might find some success if you are able to play a stealthy character and select your targets wisely. My suggestion would be to just do quests and word bosses and dolmens until more content is released, but I wouldn't expect it to be any more of a solo experience than it already is.

Soloeus wrote: »

1. I don't like grouping.
2. I don't like Voice Chat, or other people talking through my speakers.
3. Appeal to Tradition. Fallacy.

Not everyone is like you. And ostracizing and alienating everyone not like you leaves a smaller crowd. One of the biggest reasons this game didn't succeed as much as it should have, is that it kept driving away players who wanted something different than what was offered.

It's interesting that you say that, because you are coming across as very antisocial and difficult to get along with. Maybe you should just try to make a friend or two and then duo. I often have much success in Craglorn delves duoing with just my partner.

RedFoxFour · March 2015

Why do you need Solo End Game Content to get better gear when you aren't planning to use it anyhow because you don't engage in social, online activities anyways.

Do you really need better PvP gear?

The best PvP gear you can get, in any game, is a headset, mic and Teamspeak so that you can...

Communicate
Plan
Inform
Coordinate

... with your teammates.

It doesn't matter how good your PvP gear is, achieved through Solo End Game Content or otherwise, when the other team has better coordination, focus firing and simply outplays you because they actually communicate with eachother on the fly and not through text messaging.

So again, my question is, what exactly do you need this Solo End Game Content for ?

eliisra · March 2015

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I would get it if you argument was boredom or simliar. Bur gear lol? There's literally nothing BoP from trials that's needed in PvP. I never even been in Sanctum Ophidia myself, I only completed AA/Hel-RA for dye achievements. I still have every single item I need. Best dropped stuff can currently be found in your nearest guild or using AP, it's BoE. If you have the money, there's no limitation.You can make millions solo'ing the market or selling AP, that's what I do.

The one thing you're missing out on solo is monster head + shoulders from VR dungeons. That stuff is nice to have in PvP. But it's not raid drops, it comes from casual 4-man content. You dont need to be in TS with rude and rushing people to complete a daily pledge.

I agree that ESO needs more solo content for max level characters, but it's about something to do really and meaningful ways to get exp. Has nothing to do with gear.

Valencer · March 2015

The effort required to succesfully coordinate 4 (or even 12) people is far greater than anything solo content could ever offer. There's just no sense in giving the same rewards for both kinds of content. MMOs are reward-driven, and if you can earn the same rewards with only a fraction of the effort, guess how many people will choose the more difficult route?

linoge63 · March 2015

How exactly would the OPer's success in acquiring this negatively impact those of you who unbalancingly begrudge implementation of this?

It wouldnt....
For you can continue to choose not to perform soloable content.

These threads that post requests for things that offer new choices, that do not impose themselves on those not wanting it...always reveal the trolls through their effforts to squash it.

But what ends up happening is always the reverse.

MMO vision will never coordinate itself to the ideas offered by suppressors. Your efforts to negativize ideas that only offer choices only result in negativizing you.

RedFoxFour · March 2015

I don't understand this guy...

First he said he hates grouping and basically dislikes socializing with people...

... but it only applies to PvE for some reason.

In PvP he is fine with grouping, teamspeak et.c.... which strikes me as weird cause there are more angry, frustrated people in PvP, mouthbreathing their anger into an open mic, than you find in PvE.

However... if he has such great teamplay in PvP... why not get some of those PvP'ers to help out with the end game content he wants?

I don't get it... this whole thread is like a giant self contradiction.

vkayne_ESO · March 2015

To the OP, go play Skyrim...

VictoriaRachel · March 2015

I did enjoy the solo 'end-game' instance offered by Wildstar. It was a fun activity though really no where near as challenging as it could have been (I only died on a jumping puzzle, and that never feels like a real death to me). I think it is something that can really add to a game, options are good. So I wouldn't mind if they added some solo story instances with some serious challenges. I want to wipe over and over on bosses just like progress raiding!

Gear-wise though it should never reward anything like the group content. I am not going to have the time nor skill in co-ordinating with a team to earn that, and that is exactly how it should be. I should not have the best gear if I am not the best at all aspects including group play.

RedFoxFour · March 2015

VictoriaRachel wrote: »

Gear-wise though it should never reward anything like the group content. I am not going to have the time nor skill in co-ordinating with a team to earn that, and that is exactly how it should be. I should not have the best gear if I am not the best at all aspects including group play.

If you get the same gear from solo play as you do from group play, then no one would ever engage with group play in the first place.

Grouping takes more time and effort to put a team together and coordinate to overcome group content than it does reverse kiting mobs in solo play, and that extra effort required should also have a bigger carrot at the end.

Some people will claim that the game shouldn't alienate solo players. While I understand the need for solo content since sometimes you just want to play a little bit, level up some or just have some fun... the real rewards should always be group content. There's plenty of solo-only, non-multiplayer games out there if you want that gameplay.

Complaining about lack of solo content in an online MMO is kinda like going into Skyrim and complaining about the lack of coop and grouping. The game is designed to be solo, just like ESO is designed to be multiplayer.

If solo players should be able to get the same rewards you get from grouping....

... then group players should be able to get the same rewards you get from raids.

Which means you should have access to raid quality loot when soloing.

No!

Armes · March 2015

RedFoxFour wrote: »

If solo players should be able to get the same rewards you get from grouping....

... then group players should be able to get the same rewards you get from raids.

Which means you should have access to raid quality loot when soloing.

No!

Not all solo players. Who care about stuff and gear? In this game?.... Pff, I want just content (LORE, mobs killing, boss killing, maybe some equality EXP rewards..gear? That´s for min/maxers, no interesting on it.

eventide03b14a_ESO · March 2015

linoge63 wrote: »

How exactly would the OPer's success in acquiring this negatively impact those of you who unbalancingly begrudge implementation of this?

It wouldnt....
For you can continue to choose not to perform soloable content.

These threads that post requests for things that offer new choices, that do not impose themselves on those not wanting it...always reveal the trolls through their effforts to squash it.

But what ends up happening is always the reverse.

MMO vision will never coordinate itself to the ideas offered by suppressors. Your efforts to negativize ideas that only offer choices only result in negativizing you.

As many of us have pointed out this game has a lot of solo content. It has more solo content than group content. What we need is more content across the board not just solo content. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. Also, "negativize" isn't a word.

linoge63 · March 2015

RedFoxFour wrote: »

VictoriaRachel wrote: »

Gear-wise though it should never reward anything like the group content. I am not going to have the time nor skill in co-ordinating with a team to earn that, and that is exactly how it should be. I should not have the best gear if I am not the best at all aspects including group play.

If you get the same gear from solo play as you do from group play, then no one would ever engage with group play in the first place.

Grouping takes more time and effort to put a team together and coordinate to overcome group content than it does reverse kiting mobs in solo play, and that extra effort required should also have a bigger carrot at the end.

Some people will claim that the game shouldn't alienate solo players. While I understand the need for solo content since sometimes you just want to play a little bit, level up some or just have some fun... the real rewards should always be group content. There's plenty of solo-only, non-multiplayer games out there if you want that gameplay.

Complaining about lack of solo content in an online MMO is kinda like going into Skyrim and complaining about the lack of coop and grouping. The game is designed to be solo, just like ESO is designed to be multiplayer.

If solo players should be able to get the same rewards you get from grouping....

... then group players should be able to get the same rewards you get from raids.

Which means you should have access to raid quality loot when soloing.

No!

Again, whats' it to you...if someone else receives whatever.
Such pettyness

Emma_Overload · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

My question remains the same, what the hell is solo end game content?

Epic, challenging content that is designed to be tackled by a dedicated, competent, individual player.

ZOS_AlanG · March 2015

Hi everyone. While the conversation has recovered, this thread has had a lot of sniping back and forth, and got fairly off topic early on. Please remember to keep discussion civil and constructive - it's fine to disagree or criticize, but it's important to be respectful as well.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

Solo endgame content? Much as my initial reaction is to roll my eyes and bemoan the state of MMOs, the answer is simple.

Harvesting.
Doing Achievements
Doing Cyro daily quests.
Doing crafting and playing the traders
Roleplaying
Rerunning quests
Going and finding chests
Doing Justice system stuff.

These are just a few for you - what did you have in mind? Conventional MMO group activity but scaled down to solo, where you get incredible awesome loot and stuff?

God, having reread your post... the lack of sense is interesting. You want to solo, but you want to be rewarded with the same quality gear as for doing endgame raids?

I have no problem with this as long as it is scaled down to reflect the fact that solo content requires not even a hairs breadth of the challenge of group content

Wrong. None of stuff you listed helps a player feel as if they've progressed their character as far as possible... and character progression IS what MMORPGs are all about, regardless if you play solo or in a group.

Solo-oriented players are going to keep griping and posting threads like this until there are end-game content and rewards for solo players just as there are for group players.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people.
I also don't enjoy rushing through content,
I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time.
I don't like Teamspeak - I understand why people use it, but my living situation doesn't permit it.

In short you don´t like MMORPG´s . You should think of what the first two M´s mean in that and what makes up these kind of games.

Soloeus wrote: »

The solution?

This is really simple. You should consider playing another solo friendly game because what you want is some single player game with chat and that´s not the focus or purpose of MMORPG development. Try consider Skyrim oder wait until May 19´th and try Witcher 3, ESO is clearly not your cup of tea.

Golf is a multiplayer game, and yet you can still play solo if you want and have a great experience. Team oriented multiplayer games like baseball are fun, too, but there is a REASON so many more people play golf on the weekends than baseball. Organized team sports present all kinds of obstacles and burdens in real life, obstacles that have NOTHING to do with a player's skill or dedication, just as group-oriented end game content does in MMOs. If ZoS wants ESO to be a successful game that appeals to a broad population of players, they're going to need to INCLUDE solo players in the end-game content.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

BTW, I agree with the OP about Teamspeak and other gaming VOIP apps. In my house, voice chat is impossible due to the fact the noise would disturb other family members.

I don't think groupers realize what a huge problem this is for some people, considering the fact that voice chat is practically REQUIRED to be included in many guild raids and even some PvP zergs.

rsiloliveiraub17_ESO · March 2015

Although I agree Solo Content should not be the focus of an MMO, I really think we should have more soloable things to do at End Game.

After you complete Cad's Gold you either do Dungeons and Craglorn or PvP. Which is cool, you get a group, do some cool stuff, have fun. But that doesn't change the fact that you have to spend time looking for people, organizing groups, getting on TS, whatever. Sometimes we just want to log in the game and have fun by ourselves.

I think Solo Daily Quests are a necessary evil, really (not the ones in Cyrodiil). You get your character, do a couple quests and that is it, no need to search for people, wait, find a healer, find a tank and all that.

We should have solo and group content in the same amount.

I'm sure nobody wants to hang out with their friends all the time even if you love to do it.

Shunravi · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

BTW, I agree with the OP about Teamspeak and other gaming VOIP apps. In my house, voice chat is impossible due to the fact the noise would disturb other family members.

I don't think groupers realize what a huge problem this is for some people, considering the fact that voice chat is practically REQUIRED to be included in many guild raids and even some PvP zergs.

Get a headset so you can listen, and make it clear that you won't be speaking.

Problem solved

Emma_Overload · March 2015

RedFoxFour wrote: »

Why do you need Solo End Game Content to get better gear when you aren't planning to use it anyhow because you don't engage in social, online activities anyways.

Do you really need better PvP gear?

The best PvP gear you can get, in any game, is a headset, mic and Teamspeak so that you can...

Communicate
Plan
Inform
Coordinate

... with your teammates.

It doesn't matter how good your PvP gear is, achieved through Solo End Game Content or otherwise, when the other team has better coordination, focus firing and simply outplays you because they actually communicate with eachother on the fly and not through text messaging.

So again, my question is, what exactly do you need this Solo End Game Content for ?

There's no way to reach the maximum possible spell crit in this game without so-called "trial gear", and spell crit is VERY important to Sorcerers who use Surge. You can NEVER have too much crit!

.

Thelon · March 2015

Listen, I love soloing. I've developed multiple builds on Tamriel Foundry dedicated to soloing Craglorn. Its fun, challenging and satisfying.

However, DEMANDING equal rewards for solo and group content is not realistic at all. No solo content will EVER match the challenge of group content because, as any raid leader will attest, group coordination, cohesion and cooperation are the biggest part of the challenge.

If you're unwilling or unable to accept the challenge of group play, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect to be rewarded the same as those who accept the challenge and overcome it.

Rune_Relic · March 2015

Thelon wrote: »

Listen, I love soloing. I've developed multiple builds on Tamriel Foundry dedicated to soloing Craglorn. Its fun, challenging and satisfying.

However, DEMANDING equal rewards for solo and group content is not realistic at all. No solo content will EVER match the challenge of group content because, as any raid leader will attest, group coordination, cohesion and cooperation are the biggest part of the challenge.

If you're unwilling or unable to accept the challenge of group play, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect to be rewarded the same as those who accept the challenge and overcome it.

So explain to me the difference between giving 100% when playing solo and giving 100% when playing in a group ?
How is one any harder than the other ?

Rescorla_ESO · March 2015

Theosis wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

If the OP isn't going to join groups to run veteran dungeons, raids and trials, why does he want the gear he can acquire soloing to be as good as endgame raid gear? That makes zero sense. Crafted gear is more than good enough to complete any solo content in the game, which is ridiculously easy already. I stopped upgrading my crafted gear while working on VR levels just to make the game more challenging. Also, expecting gear that you can acquire easily solo to be as good as the gear it takes a raid team working together, often failing multiple times before they succeed is beyond silly. Be content with the quality of gear you earned by yourself

~sigh~

please read what I just posted

I read your post and completely disagree with it. The PVE content in this game heavily tilts in favor of solo gameplay. It has little to no challenge to it. There are three factions worth of solo PVE content for you to enjoy. The gear you acquire from doing this solo content as well as the gear you can acquire from crafting is high enough quality that it is all you NEED in order to complete this low-difficulty content.

What the OP WANTS comes across to me as jealousy. He doesn't NEED this highest quality endgame gear to complete low difficulty solo PVE content. He WANTS the same quality of gear that is only attainable by completing GROUP content without having to put in the same level of effort as those who are indeed willing to.

LucyferLightbringer · March 2015

Any content that requires features not provided by the game is flawed, plain and simple. ESO does not provide voice chat therefore it should not be required for any of its content. People should not have to install some strange third party software.

pugyourself · March 2015

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I don't like Teamspeak - I understand why people use it, but my living situation doesn't permit it. I always have music playing, a girlfriend I am talking too, and other things going on - and hearing everyone's bad jokes and opinions about everything coming through my speakers wrecks my immersion and makes it feel like I am no longer playing for my own fun, but to appease others.

The solution?

Solo Endgame Content which provides THE SAME QUALITY of reward as group endgame content. The specific items which are granted through these endeavors should have the same potency as group endgame content. Much of the game is already ruined for me and the only thing that can "save it" for me is being able to play how I want to, and that means getting equal reward for my work. Not V10 items or V12 items or whatever that is obsolete as yesterday's trash.

I also want this content to be challenging - I feel having nobody there to save you provides the first challenge.

I like an open world like this, inhabited by many players I can choose to interact with - but I don't want to be forced to perform things I hate doing to be allowed to compete in PVP. The main reason I would play this game again is to enjoy the endgame PVP, and solo content. Crafting, Harvesting and Creating. And, I want a full experience in this - I don't want my experience diminished because I don't enjoy the "Forced Must Group Always" logic.

OP, I think if you got into a group and just said "I can't talk because my child is sleeping" (or whatever your situation is) you would find understanding companions.

I often tell my groups in group chat that I can't speak. If you play well enough, no one will care.

It's hard to think about solo endgame content. Grouping requires multiple levels of intelligent choices. Can you create a build that tanks, self-heals, and provides adequate DPS? I think this is what people are getting at when they criticized your post. I loved Skyrim and I would love more solo endgame content but I just don't think it would work given the current build limitations. Maybe if the skill bar was expanded to ten slots you could swing it.

But in terms of gear...as it stands you can craft nice gear or buy it in a guild store. It might be more worthwhile for you to invest your time in solo quests and writs until you have enough gold to buy the gear you want or adequate skills to craft it.

From the beginning, I recall devs saying they wanted to promote content that could absolutely not be done outside of a group and further needed two skill bars for every member of the group to be effective. That's an intentional level of added difficulty that demands better rewards. IMHO anyway. All of that said, I much rather mix a few sets of crafted gear to increase my weapon and spell damage. I use dropped gear for sales, research, and decon.

Vraneon · March 2015

I think there is some truth on both sides. I would like to to have some solo/duo endgame challenge aswell, which gives you special items. There is 12-people gear from trials, 4-people gear from dungeons/arena, so why not some 1-2 people gear from some special challenge/trial/whatever.
I would not make it all the same, and put the same reward on every challenge. But since this is a mmo why not have it all? Asking for solo content only also makes me wonder why people don't just go and play a single player rpg. But I also don't understand people only asking for big raid content.