Solo Endgame needed - Must Group Must End.

Soloeus

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I don't like Teamspeak - I understand why people use it, but my living situation doesn't permit it. I always have music playing, a girlfriend I am talking too, and other things going on - and hearing everyone's bad jokes and opinions about everything coming through my speakers wrecks my immersion and makes it feel like I am no longer playing for my own fun, but to appease others.

The solution?

Solo Endgame Content which provides THE SAME QUALITY of reward as group endgame content. The specific items which are granted through these endeavors should have the same potency as group endgame content. Much of the game is already ruined for me and the only thing that can "save it" for me is being able to play how I want to, and that means getting equal reward for my work. Not V10 items or V12 items or whatever that is obsolete as yesterday's trash.

I also want this content to be challenging - I feel having nobody there to save you provides the first challenge.

I like an open world like this, inhabited by many players I can choose to interact with - but I don't want to be forced to perform things I hate doing to be allowed to compete in PVP. The main reason I would play this game again is to enjoy the endgame PVP, and solo content. Crafting, Harvesting and Creating. And, I want a full experience in this - I don't want my experience diminished because I don't enjoy the "Forced Must Group Always" logic.

AngryNord

This is Elder Scrolls ONLINE, not Elder Scrolls VI.
I hear this game offers great opportunities for solo play.

Soloeus

AngryNord wrote: »

This is Elder Scrolls ONLINE, not Elder Scrolls VI.
I hear this game offers great opportunities for solo play.

Ahh, this strawman argument again. Go away.

WraithAzraiel

My question remains the same, what the hell is solo end game content?

Soloeus

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

My question remains the same, what the hell is solo end game content?

Solo Endgame Content means areas where you do not have to be in a group, and for that matter, cannot enter as a group. You have only yourself to rely on. If you really need to ask what "Solo Endgame Content" is, then I wonder if you also need to ask what Chocolate is.

WraithAzraiel

And what successful game in the history of MMO's has ever offered what you outlined in the opening post?

I'm sure you can find a group of people of like mind to do stuff with, if you can't then you're not trying hard enough. Your solution is that they waste man hours and money creating something that would make the necessity for grouping obsolete. Grouping which is the bread and butter of an MMO.


It's not a straw man argument, MMO and forced multiplayer content have been synonymous for a decade. Your demands and desires are not going to be the tip of the spear in a sweeping redefinition of a genre.

Sorry.

Kingdinguhling

this game already has way too much solo questing and grinding......

honestly you don't group enough past lvl 50

WraithAzraiel

Also, you're using Straw Man incorrectly.


Wikipedia says: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To 'set up a straw man' or 'set up a straw-man argument' is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent.

Soloeus

1. I don't like grouping.
2. I don't like Voice Chat, or other people talking through my speakers.
3. Appeal to Tradition. Fallacy.

Not everyone is like you. And ostracizing and alienating everyone not like you leaves a smaller crowd. One of the biggest reasons this game didn't succeed as much as it should have, is that it kept driving away players who wanted something different than what was offered.

LameoveR

I'm really understand your desires, but

Soloeus wrote: »

The solution?

Solo Endgame Content which provides THE SAME QUALITY of reward as group endgame content.

not a solution.
You must understand why.

Catstyle

Well, all the other games in the serie is Solo, they wanted to try a multiplay-game. : )
Should have been aware of that.

Also, I heard crafting gives you rather decent stuff, but giving you the same stuff that usually requires 10+ people to get, would not be fun, for any part.

Kingdinguhling

and most are wearing crafted gear in endgame atm because its the strongest... so you just don't seem to be doing any research.

get you a 5 piece hunding rage 5 ravagers and go to town in PVP. or 5 piece hunding and 5 piece morags tong.... its all crafted. ravageres if you have some AP.

WraithAzraiel

Soloeus wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

My question remains the same, what the hell is solo end game content?

Solo Endgame Content means areas where you do not have to be in a group, and for that matter, cannot enter as a group. You have only yourself to rely on. If you really need to ask what "Solo Endgame Content" is, then I wonder if you also need to ask what Chocolate is.

Listen, pal. Don't start throwing insults because you can't be bothered to put forth effort to achieve goals in a video game.

There is no such thing as Solo End Game Content. What you're asking for, is a way to get the best stuff for the least amount of effort. IE: Only relying on your own skill and not coordination and teamwork to achieve a goal and attain a certain reward.


That ain't how MMO's work.

So before you go on insulting the intelligence of everyone who disagrees with you, take a step back and take a breath.

Soloeus

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Also, you're using Straw Man incorrectly.


Wikipedia says: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To 'set up a straw man' or 'set up a straw-man argument' is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent.

1. Wikipedia is not an academic source. I don't trust it. I mean, you can just change anything you want at any time, and Wikipedia is wrong on quite a few of the articles it has.

2. You are misrepresenting my intent (under the assumption I want to play alone always which isn't the case), then presenting that intent an answer - a single player game, which is not what I am asking for. Either you are using a straw man or you don't have good reading comprehension.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Soloeus

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

and most are wearing crafted gear in endgame atm because its the strongest... so you just don't seem to be doing any research.

get you a 5 piece hunding rage 5 ravagers and go to town in PVP. or 5 piece hunding and 5 piece morags tong.... its all crafted. ravageres if you have some AP.

You can only craft this with Group Only Content (Nirnhoned).

Soloeus

Catstyle wrote: »

Well, all the other games in the serie is Solo, they wanted to try a multiplay-game. : )
Should have been aware of that.

Also, I heard crafting gives you rather decent stuff, but giving you the same stuff that usually requires 10+ people to get, would not be fun, for any part.

Yes it would be fun, especially if it were hard and challenging. It wouldn't be fun if there were just a box to loot giving everyone the items no, but nobody is asking for that.

It would be VERY fun if there were real solo challenges at endgame which provide top tier rewards. Not last months leftovers or V10 gear when you are V14.

WraithAzraiel

Soloeus wrote: »

1. I don't like grouping.
2. I don't like Voice Chat, or other people talking through my speakers.
3. Appeal to Tradition. Fallacy.

Not everyone is like you. And ostracizing and alienating everyone not like you leaves a smaller crowd. One of the biggest reasons this game didn't succeed as much as it should have, is that it kept driving away players who wanted something different than what was offered.

I, at no point ostracized you for not wanting to group.


When you start paying the bills at ZOS, feel free to make all the demands your little heart desires.

If you don't like it don't do it, but don't demand it change just because you don't like it. The genre doesn't care what you like, it cares about what works and what makes money.

WraithAzraiel

Soloeus wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Also, you're using Straw Man incorrectly.


Wikipedia says: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To 'set up a straw man' or 'set up a straw-man argument' is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent.

1. Wikipedia is not an academic source. I don't trust it. I mean, you can just change anything you want at any time, and Wikipedia is wrong on quite a few of the articles it has.

2. You are misrepresenting my intent (under the assumption I want to play alone always which isn't the case), then presenting that intent an answer - a single player game, which is not what I am asking for. Either you are using a straw man or you don't have good reading comprehension.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/straw man

ALSO

A strawman is "an argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated." {American Heritage Dictionary, in TheFreeDictionary} The A.H. Dictionary also gives two other definitions — including "a bundle of straw made into the likeness of a man and often used as a scarecrow" which is the origin of using strawman to describe one type of logical fallacy — but this page will focus on the use of strawman in logic and rhetoric. For other definitions, see Wikipedia's disambiguation for StrawMan.

Wikipedia says: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To ‘set up a straw man’ or ‘set up a straw-man argument’ is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted. ... It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument." / "One can set up a straw man in the following ways: 1) Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted. 2) Quote an opponent's words out of context — i.e., choose quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions. 3) Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated. 4) Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, and pretend that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical. 5) Oversimplify a person's argument into a simple analogy, which can then be attacked."


Regardless of whether or not Wikipedia is an acceptable academic source, doesn't change the fact that you're using the terminology incorrectly.


Expect this thread to be locked.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Kingdinguhling

Soloeus wrote: »

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

and most are wearing crafted gear in endgame atm because its the strongest... so you just don't seem to be doing any research.

get you a 5 piece hunding rage 5 ravagers and go to town in PVP. or 5 piece hunding and 5 piece morags tong.... its all crafted. ravageres if you have some AP.

You can only craft this with Group Only Content (Nirnhoned).

your crazy hunding rage is in the first zone and is only 3 trait lol.

and I believe that ravagers only cost like 30k AP each piece. as for Morags tong I believe its like 4-5 trait but its still easy to craft when you find the booth.

AngryNord

Don't worry, @WraithAzraiel - with his attitude I doubt he needs to worry about ANY type of endgame for the next week or so when the MODs wake up...

Soloeus

This thread is not for you. You already stated your beliefs.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

pugyourself

Soloeus wrote: »

1. I don't like grouping.
2. I don't like Voice Chat, or other people talking through my speakers.
3. Appeal to Tradition. Fallacy.

Not everyone is like you. And ostracizing and alienating everyone not like you leaves a smaller crowd. One of the biggest reasons this game didn't succeed as much as it should have, is that it kept driving away players who wanted something different than what was offered.

Not all groups use TS. Just don't use it.

WraithAzraiel

And I don't want to insult or berate you, I want you to be successful. I want you to adapt and overcome. I want you and others like you to step out of your comfort zones and experience everything the game has to offer.

I want you to love it like I love it, even with all it's flaws.

I want you to be realistic. You creating this thread, isn't going to affect change.


Besides, there's already MORE solo content incoming. But I highly doubt it's going to offer Trial gear as quest rewards.

AngryNord

Ban hammer incoming...

Grapdjan

Solo endgame content? Much as my initial reaction is to roll my eyes and bemoan the state of MMOs, the answer is simple.

Harvesting.
Doing Achievements
Doing Cyro daily quests.
Doing crafting and playing the traders
Roleplaying
Rerunning quests
Going and finding chests
Doing Justice system stuff.

These are just a few for you - what did you have in mind? Conventional MMO group activity but scaled down to solo, where you get incredible awesome loot and stuff?

God, having reread your post... the lack of sense is interesting. You want to solo, but you want to be rewarded with the same quality gear as for doing endgame raids?

I have no problem with this as long as it is scaled down to reflect the fact that solo content requires not even a hairs breadth of the challenge of group content

LameoveR

Wait a while. And this "endgame solo content" will be released for you through the Crown Store

Grapdjan

Soloeus wrote: »

1. I don't like grouping.
2. I don't like Voice Chat, or other people talking through my speakers.
3. Appeal to Tradition. Fallacy.

Not everyone is like you. And ostracizing and alienating everyone not like you leaves a smaller crowd. One of the biggest reasons this game didn't succeed as much as it should have, is that it kept driving away players who wanted something different than what was offered.

This is simply not true. Some of the biggest contributing factors as to why this game has not been a resounding success, according to all the people I've chatted on my other games are:

Lack of working group tools
Too solo orientated
1-50 + vr1-vr14 solo, was not nearly enough Multi for them
No working auction house, therefore no player driven economy, therefore no Multi
No decent grouping tool
No decent social/chat features
No decent MMO UI set up/too reliant on add ons
Not enough storage space
Broken bugged PvP
Exploiters not getting just rewards

Not one person I've spoken to has said

'hey you know the reason I left ESO was because I got to endgame, and realised that if I wanted the bes gear I would have to group. It's such a damn shame I can't just go solo into solo instances of all the endgame stuff, and get amazing gear on a par with raid gear for being solo. So I quit

It just isn't a general thing, it is your thing.

WraithAzraiel

Soloeus wrote: »

This thread is not for you. You already stated your beliefs.

Who is this thread for? The Devs? They're not even going to acknowledge it. It doesn't fit their design model and you aren't large enough of a contributor to be a factor in their design decisions.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but the same is true for anyone who makes a request as unrealistic as this.


Several people have offered solutions for you, but you stomp your feet and flat out refuse them. Even taking to insulting their intelligence and reading comprehension skills.

Currently the Best in Slot gear for many builds is a mixture of crafted and looted gear. You can craft all your gear and be only slightly less effective than someone with all dropped sets. And be effective in a shorter amount of time as well. Since you control when you acquire the items.


Just relax, it's not at all as bad as you're making it out to be.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Grapdjan

Soloeus wrote: »

This thread is not for you. You already stated your beliefs.

I'm beginning to see why solo play is appealing to you! ;0

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

LameoveR

Grapdjan wrote: »

it is your thing.

Soloeus

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

And I don't want to insult or berate you, I want you to be successful. I want you to adapt and overcome. I want you and others like you to step out of your comfort zones and experience everything the game has to offer.

I want you to love it like I love it, even with all it's flaws.

I want you to be realistic. You creating this thread, isn't going to affect change.


Besides, there's already MORE solo content incoming. But I highly doubt it's going to offer Trial gear as quest rewards.

1. I don't want to "adapt and overcome" - this isn't real life, and there is no real life reward for doing so. There is only FUN and NOT FUN. There is no overcome. Either you are having fun or you aren't, done and done. To overcome not having fun, having fun is the only alternative - meaning, in essence, the only solution to all the woes of grouping is Solo Play.

2. I also don't want to experience everything the game has to offer. I cannot dedicate enough time to do DSA, or any of the Trials in Craglorn, for example. I just don't enjoy it, and don't want to experience it. But I don't want skipping this content to render me unable to compete in PVP, which is where I do have my group fun.

When I want to group, I do PVP. I don't enjoy other people when I want to PVE, but when I PVP, I am the opposite.

3. Just like when everyone said the game would be pay to play by sub forever and it wasn't. Instead, change happened because the devs listened (I don't like the change, personally, but I can live with it).

Lastly, I can overlook the many many flaws in this game - the only thing I want - the ONLY thing I want - is to enjoy myself when I am playing. This means not having to perform content that I hate in order to advance.