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Does Entropy Rising Get Special Treatment?
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NakedSnake✭✭✭Exactly."Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"1 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »
None of this means that I wouldn't like to see the developers involved in the forum community more (both here with ZOS and on the official forums with Bethesda). I do think that it's not unreasonable to have ZOS talking directly with what are basically their unpaid QA testers.
Err.. these ARE the official forums. The ones that are on the Bethesda website always said they were temporary and un-official. Frankly, I have not checked that cesspool since the official forums spun up with early access.
These are actually the old beta forums >_>
I was here months before early release (they simply wiped all the old topics at launch)@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin0 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭Zenimax, nerf the elitists. They are too OP"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"2
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Cool! Is Zenimax stating that the service of publishing everything they research to us? I am sorry to ask, but I am a contract nerd if you like. I love to know my rights.
Can you please point out where this service is explained?
Another instance of not reading the entire thread or just blantanly trying to argue for arguments sake.
The point which you are missing is about communication and the perception that a select group is in communications with ZOS. This group gets to ask questions and have answers supplied to them through whatever means have been prearranged and which are also outside of an official capacity (i.e. these forums).
While a guild and its members such as ER share that information and the other guild that posted in this thread does not (did not see mention of that guilds name) is the symptom of the problem of non communication. Everyone should have access to ZOS on the same level that these people do. No one is saying that reaching out to these guilds is a bad thing. Not disseminating the information to the entire community is or in the case of the unnamed guild, being specifically told not to share the information compounds it.
Their is precedent here where it looks like favoritism is shown. Do not forget the example the guild name for ER being taken by another individual and then stripped. I personnally do not know if this is true but many in this thread spoke about the incident from a first hand knowledge perspective. This too magnifies the issue to a different level. It validates that the probability of information being shared is high and that the community at large is left out for whatever reason.
Lack of communication with the ESO community is the root of this and what the furor is all about. The perception that some have privilege over others and are given an unfair advantage in regards to the game.4 -
NakedSnake wrote: »You pay you play...end of story. Your monthly fee does not entitle you know the ins and out's of development. Next thing you'll be wanting the devs to email you before they take a ***.
Yes but it doesn't entitle guilds who are not on the payroll to the ins and out of development either, as a matter of a fact I'm sure most game companies have secrecy clauses in their employment contracts so they don't end up sharing too much information i.e. to prevent stuff like future patch notes getting leaked to other companies.
Not saying guilds like ER know what's coming in patch 1.3 and are about to leak it to NCSoft but it is a bit worrying to see they can get very specific information pretty much on demand while the rest of the community get vague responses if any.
In my opinion of course Zenimax should engage with guilds, but engaging shouldn't mean giving out such specifics like the OP mentioned or not taking individual opinions with a grain of salt like they do with the rest of the community. Letting a small circle of players get too pally with the development is not only bad for manipulation/exploitation of the development process but it also looks bad from a professional standpoint as well.
They should be treating all paying customers equal regardless of how good they are or whether they happen to run a useful community resource.5 -
LadyNerevar wrote: »
Communication is never going to be equal. Certain guilds, websites, or people will be singled out for further testing or feedback; people will receive clarifications from their customer support officers or from private messages; friends of developers are going to get information by just hanging out with developers. This can't be an us versus them discussion because there will always be someone coming out on top.Maverick827 wrote: »Unfortunately, I don't see how this can ever be resolved. Even if Zenimax starts communicating better on their forums, who's to say they're still not communicating more in private? Even if we start getting helpful posts from developers about upcoming nerfs and buffs, who's to say Entropy Rising isn't still getting information about later buffs and nerfs after the ones we know about?
What we can hope for (and ask for) is that communication via the official channels (this forum) gets to a level where it satisfies the general community. A developer can't come into every thread and answer every question, but more frequent and/or more detailed responses can certainly happen. Entropy Rising, and other guilds who receive information and are allowed to talk about it (I'm not sure what kind of NDA they're under, or even whether they are breaking NDA by talking about future plans), can also make an effort to make publicly and widely available the information they receive privately.
If the level of communication on this forum gets to be at a level that is satisfactory to you, what does it matter that someone else might get a clue first?
Um, until just now I didn't even know about the secret cabal of theorycrafters giving Zeni their datas.
A thing I do know is this: Zeni has of late, right off the launcher, told its player-base to check out posts that exploit the very same broken mechanics that the forum at large is very upset about. They posted a DK staff/light armor build that was widely known to be OP-bordering on exploit, and more recently another "healing guide" that further highlighted the strength of resto staff and light armor, and even included a nice little tidbit explaining why Templars, while bad at most things, are also not even very good healers.
I spend more time gaming than in forums. But my experience with the forums--largely was Zeni has *suggested I read,* by linking it off the launcher, has been pretty aggravating.
So I don't know about the relationship between the company and some pet people and pet guilds. What I know is that there are pretty big problems in game balance, and the game keeps pointing me to guides that are more like "Hey, here's how to exploit our horrible game balance (if you're the right class)."
I don't know what's wrong exactly, but there's something very wrong with this system. The devs seem somewhere between indifferent and openly antagonistic. Are they trying to help, with this suggesting people embrace the imbalance? I have no idea, that would be an extremely charitable way of looking at it. All I can say is that personally, as the not-so-proud owner of a V12 Templar, this communication has been SOMEWHAT LESS THAN INSPIRING.4 -
NakedSnake wrote: »You pay you play...end of story. Your monthly fee does not entitle you know the ins and out's of development. Next thing you'll be wanting the devs to email you before they take a ***.
Um, half the in-game tooltips don't accurately describe what the skills do. They're either off, mathematically, or flat-out incorrect. I would say the monthly fee "entitles" one to a working product, one that behaves as described. What's going on now is not that. The hidden maths, the ones that are currently being argued and complained about, the ones that are the Game That IS, not the Game As We Are Told, are available to some, but not others, and certainly not all.
That seems...grey enough to be worth commenting on. I have no idea why you'd bother putting forth this effort basically telling people they're powerless and unimportant and they should shut up.
3 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
But they weren't available to everyone then. Beth forum was.LadyNerevar wrote: »
None of this means that I wouldn't like to see the developers involved in the forum community more (both here with ZOS and on the official forums with Bethesda). I do think that it's not unreasonable to have ZOS talking directly with what are basically their unpaid QA testers.
Err.. these ARE the official forums. The ones that are on the Bethesda website always said they were temporary and un-official. Frankly, I have not checked that cesspool since the official forums spun up with early access.
These are actually the old beta forums >_>
I was here months before early release (they simply wiped all the old topics at launch)
I'm not sure why Lady Nerevar would like them to post on Bethesda forum, it doesn't even have an ESO section anymore - possibly she was talking about devs in general, in regards to other games published by Bethesda? BGS aren't a talkative bunch either, though to be fair, they still pop in every now and then to talk to modders.Edited by Rosveen on June 15, 2014 9:12AM0 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭ER and others are continously dodging the issue at hand
Why shouldnt the rest of the community have access to the information stream between the Devs and ER?
This is getting old, ER and others have been nothing but PRAISED for their effort of testing and trying and providing feedback, yes I thank you for everything you are doing, and I really hope you continue!
BUT, what is the problem with the community getting access to the feedback and communication between the parties? Ok, I understand ER and others are NOT obligated to give their test results to anyone, but the feedback from the devs should be accessible by everyone.
You treat it as if its something super secret info you dont want to share with the rest of us, no wonder it raises eyebrows.
How is it a bad thing to let the community read the answers from the Devs?
And I of course expect you guys to completely dodge this, like you've been doing for the last 8-9 pages of this thread.Edited by Phantorang on June 15, 2014 9:39AMFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC4 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭Ralathar44 wrote: »BadgerRider1 wrote: »Receiving no communication from the company while other, "special" groups of people receive it really rankles my chain. I can deal with bugs and balancing issues, etc. but being treated as a 2nd class citizen is wholely unacceptable. The game is beautiful and fun to play but I just cant support favoritism.
Good luck all, and happy hunting.
Perfect example of my previous comment. Poster assumes something and lashes out.
Actually, you've demonstrated this entirely by your own post, @BadgerRider1 has been a part of this thread from the beginning, so to take 1 of his/hers posts out of context doesnt make it right.
Your post makes alot of sense, just not in this example.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
The only level of communication that is satisfactory to me is the same amount that is given to other players, at least with regards to future content/changes.LadyNerevar wrote: »If the level of communication on this forum gets to be at a level that is satisfactory to you, what does it matter that someone else might get a clue first?
Like I said, that's never going to be the case. There will always be someone up the chain from you (and me).
Let's say that, over the next month, ZOS hires a bunch more staff, overhauls the forum structure to be more accessible, answers most questions, does a weekly progress update on Fridays and updates us on progress of specific features as they come up. Or whatever idea of ideal forum communication is in your mind. Would you really be upset that one of them told another player that a skills is "not working as intended"? I can see why you'd take offence to them, say, laying out all the gameplay changes to come in the next update to a single player. But something as minor as the OP quotes? Really?
Let's say that you're at a really nice restaurant and you got a really great grilled cheese sandwich. Later, you check Yelp and find out that the restaurant down the street has a better rated grilled cheese sandwich. Are you retroactively upset that you got a really good meal?
Again: totally equal communication isn't a possibility, unless your idea of equality is everyone getting equally neglected. Good communication with the general player base via official channels (i.e. this forum, the website) is definitely doable, and should be a priority for any company.
Lets not focus on hypothetical examples of how this wont work, and lets make what is possible possible.
Try and be positive, openess has always been good, as long as it isnt any secrets involved, there are no secrets right? No advantages in this info, no?
So lets do an effort and do our best to make this work, share the info that can be shared, and see how it works out!
I am positive that 90% of this community will respond positively if this were to happen. There will always be trolls and feelings in a game such as this, but if there was no feelings and not worth trolling, it wouldnt be a game worth playing I guess. Not because anyone would miss the trolls, but trolls are also attracted to potentially good stuff.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC2 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭LadyNerevar wrote: »If the level of communication on this forum gets to be at a level that is satisfactory to you, what does it matter that someone else might get a clue first?
Not sure if you are being serious, of course it matters!
It will not be satisfactory if only a select few are to continue getting clues before anyone else.
This is giving advantages to a very few, we dont like that.
I want be the judge of what is important information, not judged by someone else.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
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Phantorang✭✭✭✭cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
The arrogance is strong with this one.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
cjmarsh725b14_ESO✭✭✭✭cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
rage
noun
1. violent, uncontrollable anger.
In what way, shape, or form does that word relate to what I said?1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
rage
noun
1. violent, uncontrollable anger.
In what way, shape, or form does that word relate to what I said?
I'd suggest you take another look at your posts then. And, you haven't met my request of posting your own research. Research that would justify the notion of a staff member contacting you to garner your opinion regarding any aspect of the game.
Noise is something CS gets when reading the majority of new posts on any topic in these forums.
In what way, shape, or form have you been ignored by CS while posting valuable information about this game freely shared with the entire community that wishes to view it?
Do you yet see how this works?
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Evandus✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
The arrogance is strong with this one.
I'll be sure to file that under unfounded accusations presented as a response to something you can't logically address
1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭@cjmarsh725b14_ESO/ @Phantorang:
I've posted a brief opinion regarding the topic at hand. So far, the best you appear to offer are accusations of arrogance, and hypocrasy.
Despite the amusement factor, I'd like to remind you that neither of you have actually addressed the points I've brought to the table in this discussion. I'll be checking in though as I can in anticipation of such.Edited by Evandus on June 15, 2014 11:07AM1 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
The arrogance is strong with this one.
I'll be sure to file that under unfounded accusations presented as a response to something you can't logically address
All the while you are completely ignoring the fact that almost everyone thanks ER for doing a great job, but somehow you think you are entitled to have clues and information of whats going to happen with the game, before anyone else.
ar·ro·gance [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
Synonyms
haughtiness, insolence, disdain.
Antonyms
humility, modesty, diffidence.
Thats arrogance for you Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC3 -
Fuxo✭✭✭✭Words are wind. This also applies to statements like "things are going to be fixed in patch 2.0 or x.y". There was already plenty of time to get things right. PTS testers and internal QA team were testing fundamental game mechanics for more than 1 year and we can see the result.
If you knew that there are such imbalances, why would you release speed trials where the only thing that matters is DPS? Why create such an unnecessary drama?
I personally do not care about feedback from devs on this forum. I expect real feedback in forms of patches that have consistently good quality and address problems in a timely manner.2 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »Phantorang wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
The arrogance is strong with this one.
I'll be sure to file that under unfounded accusations presented as a response to something you can't logically address
All the while you are completely ignoring the fact that almost everyone thanks ER for doing a great job, but somehow you think you are entitled to have clues and information of whats going to happen with the game, before anyone else.
ar·ro·gance [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
Synonyms
haughtiness, insolence, disdain.
Antonyms
humility, modesty, diffidence.
Thats arrogance for you
Sorry, but is your argument actually that you don't think a PTS guild that publicly shares information/teaches the community/researches/tests is deserving of having an opinion? Or is it that your upset that Zenimax representatives haven't contacted you personally for your opinions due to the research/testing/information sharing/teaching that you are doing without any citations or points of reference?
Name calling, is an effective tool for a lack of a reasonable argument. This is all you've proven insofar.
Where is your contribution to the community that clearly shows you should be consulted when CS Staff choose to poll a demographic?
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭When i said "QQ they are not speaking to me!" i have been flamed to no end but this is EXACTLY the issue here.
Most of people complaining here never played on a test server in the first place and wouldnt have anything valuable to say to the DEVs, they are clueless.
Forums are always bad but this is reaching a new peak, its psychiatry.
If you are dreaming to become a game developer, do yourself a favor and stick to niche games and communities, there is still some sanity there.
Edited by Gisgo on June 15, 2014 11:28AM1 -
cjmarsh725b14_ESO✭✭✭✭cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
rage
noun
1. violent, uncontrollable anger.
In what way, shape, or form does that word relate to what I said?
I'd suggest you take another look at your posts then. And, you haven't met my request of posting your own research. Research that would justify the notion of a staff member contacting you to garner your opinion regarding any aspect of the game.
Noise is something CS gets when reading the majority of new posts on any topic in these forums.
In what way, shape, or form have you been ignored by CS while posting valuable information about this game freely shared with the entire community that wishes to view it?
Do you yet see how this works?
You have not actually addressed a single thing I have asked or brought up. You have blithely ignored every point I've made and then demanded I show you research that I've done on the game so that I might validate my opinion in your eyes and justify my worthiness to have access to certain information. If you are indeed a representative of ER then I was mistaken in my estimation of their benefit to the ESO community. The unmitigated arrogance and elitism displayed is exactly what people don't want to see in the select few players with access to inside information.3 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait.....are people seriously bitching about the Devs asking a Guild who Raids content for them for information about how the game currently plays?
Now I know ZOS isn't communicating very good with the playerbase right now..But really? you're going to cry about them getting feedback from players?
Some of you of course want them to come directly to this forum and ask for feedback, but that simply will not work..Because the idiots will drown out anything remotely useful in the thread.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭Its obvious there is 2-way communication between "Important players/guilds" and ZoS. For some reason, ER thinks its ok they know important game mechanics before anyone else. Why is that? Because its their way of getting paid for their efforts?
If you tested and theorycrafted for fun and it was 1-way communication only, you wouldnt bother doing it anymore, cuz it wouldnt be rewarding enough?
Im just asking, because ER seems to go pretty far to belittle anyone asking questions and to defend their right to know important game mechanics and game changes before anyone else, what other motivation for this is there if it didnt bring advantages?Edited by Phantorang on June 15, 2014 11:50AMFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »You are absolutely right that this is a toxic issue, and it is a result of a perceived divide between players. When some are seen to be the favorites and insiders it will always cause resentment, whether or not there is any substance to it. The real reason people react so strongly to this issue is because of the relative silence from ZoS thus far. And then when they are seen to have reached out to a select few, people are understandably upset.
Sifting between noise and actual information on these forums is problematic. There are so many bold, unsupported, and unfounded accusations here it's comical. Much like your assertion that I'm a hypocrite for pointing out that meaningless and unsubstantiated rage is simple noise to the scientific mind. A useless counter to my observations.
Furthermore, a self created divide between those who test and know mechanics versus those who don't is easy to rectify. One would merely need to refer to their own data. And if they don't have any, create some.
How much of these forums for example were overrun with bow/dagger nightblades raging about being underpowered? And how many of those players still cannot grasp where the actual problem lies? Which is an assertion made (supported by research), by ER members previous to public beta?
Not liking an aspect of the game and choosing to blindy rage about it = noise. Not liking an aspect of the game and pointing it out with supporting research = actionable.
Change your rage, drop the insults, and create actionable feedback. You might be more pleased with the results.
I'm not sure why or how you considered my post a 'rage' other than that you disagreed with what I wrote. Your observation that everyone who provided feedback on the nightblade being underpowered was 'raging' and that they 'still cannot grasp where the problem lies' is not the kind of scientific observation you are espousing, it is a gross generalization. It does nobody any good if you belittle the person giving the feedback just because you don't like it or agree with it.
It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. We haven't gotten that far, as you have nothing to support your argument aside from rage.
rage
noun
1. violent, uncontrollable anger.
In what way, shape, or form does that word relate to what I said?
I'd suggest you take another look at your posts then. And, you haven't met my request of posting your own research. Research that would justify the notion of a staff member contacting you to garner your opinion regarding any aspect of the game.
Noise is something CS gets when reading the majority of new posts on any topic in these forums.
In what way, shape, or form have you been ignored by CS while posting valuable information about this game freely shared with the entire community that wishes to view it?
Do you yet see how this works?
You have not actually addressed a single thing I have asked or brought up. You have blithely ignored every point I've made and then demanded I show you research that I've done on the game so that I might validate my opinion in your eyes and justify my worthiness to have access to certain information. If you are indeed a representative of ER then I was mistaken in my estimation of their benefit to the ESO community. The unmitigated arrogance and elitism displayed is exactly what people don't want to see in the select few players with access to inside information.
Denial, followed by another accusation are not fit answers. I've actually addressed what I view as problematic in your postings in this thread. I've chosen also to pose questions of my own. None of which you appear to be capable of addressing so far.
Any information you'd like to know regarding ER's testing of mechanics are available in their forums. I'm aware of this as I've read quite a bit of it while learning about the game. If reading isn't your thing, there are YouTube and Twitch video content available to you.
There is no arrogance involved in questioning the worth of an opinion claiming a subset of the game community is receiving exclusive top secret information. Particularly when that information that is, according to the accusations, being hoarded for guild gain. The sheer number of public posts with conclusions and testing methods contradict these wild assertions. You simply appear to be unwilling to view them for yourself.
Again, if CS Staff read that information, and felt inclined to include that particular guild (along with many others) into their target demographic to garner opinions from - what's the problem?
The short answer is - there isn't one.
Because CS sifts through the noise on these forums for player opinion as well. Because CS chooses to speak with other guilds that have different playstyles and skill levels. And because CS garners opinions as well from those who respond to questions/community requests.
Arrogance and Elitism as you appear to define it would only be present if I stated I am somehow better than you at ESO. And I'm not. Nor have I in this thread. Your use of these terms are unfounded and weaken your position.
Since it's clear you have an issue with ER in particular it'd be good to see your contradicting data that has been ignored in error by CS staff. So, where is it?
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cjmarsh725b14_ESO✭✭✭✭@Evandus
I see, you're a fan, not a member of the guild. My apologies to ER for tarnishing their reputation with your arrogance in my eyes. I don't know how else to tell you what I think about this issue without beating a dead horse, so I'll just leave it there. Maybe you'll go back and actually read through what I wrote, but I'm not going to hold my breath.3 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Wait.....are people seriously bitching about the Devs asking a Guild who Raids content for them for information about how the game currently plays?
Now I know ZOS isn't communicating very good with the playerbase right now..But really? you're going to cry about them getting feedback from players?
Some of you of course want them to come directly to this forum and ask for feedback, but that simply will not work..Because the idiots will drown out anything remotely useful in the thread.
No you are completely wrong. We encourage ZoS and their Devs to get feedback and communication with ER and others.
As long as the answers from ZoS is given to the whole community, not only a select few.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC2