Does Entropy Rising Get Special Treatment?

Kiwi · June 2014

so its now officially beta or what?

LadyNerevar · June 2014

Entropy Rising gets "preferential treatment" because Atropos has been there since the very beginning. I'm not sure if Tamriel Foundry was the first ever ESO website, but it was certainly the best for the longest time. If you were a developer, would you listen to a fan (and a professional) who has obvious investment in your game, has played enough MMOs to be intimately familiar with and know how to dissect their mechanics, has given you critiques and advice since the pre-alpha build of the game... or would you listen to an unpunctuated post in the middle of a million others by a player who claims to have already quit your game? Whether you agree with him or not, Atropos knows his stuff.

I think it's pretty obvious why they'd choose to deal personally with a select few guilds and members, namely those who have previously been helpful (the Beta testers who got initial access to PTS, for example) and who have decent communication skills. Atropos, and the other people who ZOS is communicating directly with, have proven themselves reliable, knowledgeable, and professional. Even though they have the same problems as the rest of us, I imaging their chats with Gina don't involve curse words.

None of this means that I wouldn't like to see the developers involved in the forum community more (both here with ZOS and on the official forums with Bethesda). I do think that it's not unreasonable to have ZOS talking directly with what are basically their unpaid QA testers.

And, here's a secret: you, yes you, can also be a part of this select minority. How? Give good feedback, be polite, help others. The developers see that, they respect it, and they'll remember your name when the time comes.

Maverick827 · June 2014

LadyNerevar wrote: »

Entropy Rising gets "preferential treatment" because Atropos has been there since the very beginning. I'm not sure if Tamriel Foundry was the first ever ESO website, but it was certainly the best for the longest time. If you were a developer, would you listen to a fan (and a professional) who has obvious investment in your game, has played enough MMOs to be intimately familiar with and know how to dissect their mechanics, has given you critiques and advice since the pre-alpha build of the game... or would you listen to an unpunctuated post in the middle of a million others by a player who claims to have already quit your game? Whether you agree with him or not, Atropos knows his stuff.

I think it's pretty obvious why they'd choose to deal personally with a select few guilds and members, namely those who have previously been helpful (the Beta testers who got initial access to PTS, for example) and who have decent communication skills. Atropos, and the other people who ZOS is communicating directly with, have proven themselves reliable, knowledgeable, and professional. Even though they have the same problems as the rest of us, I imaging their chats with Gina don't involve curse words.

None of this means that I wouldn't like to see the developers involved in the forum community more (both here with ZOS and on the official forums with Bethesda). I do think that it's not unreasonable to have ZOS talking directly with what are basically their unpaid QA testers.

And, here's a secret: you, yes you, can also be a part of this select minority. How? Give good feedback, be polite, help others. The developers see that, they respect it, and they'll remember your name when the time comes.

Again, them taking feedback from certain guilds isn't really that big of an issue. The problem is the information that Zenimax gives back in return (mechanics clarifications, plans for future nerfs/buffs, etc.) that the rest of us don't see is.

Unfortunately, I don't see how this can ever be resolved. Even if Zenimax starts communicating better on their forums, who's to say they're still not communicating more in private? Even if we start getting helpful posts from developers about upcoming nerfs and buffs, who's to say Entropy Rising isn't still getting information about later buffs and nerfs after the ones we know about?

avengergbg · June 2014

I'm curios how the guild know that the person they talk to is a represent from ZoS?

Is it something that has been determined beforehand or does the guildmaster or something in the affected guild get a whisper in game saying that they have been choosen and that a representive from ZoS is coming on their TS channel?

If it's all out of the blue, how does the process go to make sure that the person talking actually is what they say they are?

LadyNerevar · June 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

Unfortunately, I don't see how this can ever be resolved. Even if Zenimax starts communicating better on their forums, who's to say they're still not communicating more in private? Even if we start getting helpful posts from developers about upcoming nerfs and buffs, who's to say Entropy Rising isn't still getting information about later buffs and nerfs after the ones we know about?

Communication is never going to be equal. Certain guilds, websites, or people will be singled out for further testing or feedback; people will receive clarifications from their customer support officers or from private messages; friends of developers are going to get information by just hanging out with developers. This can't be an us versus them discussion because there will always be someone coming out on top.

What we can hope for (and ask for) is that communication via the official channels (this forum) gets to a level where it satisfies the general community. A developer can't come into every thread and answer every question, but more frequent and/or more detailed responses can certainly happen. Entropy Rising, and other guilds who receive information and are allowed to talk about it (I'm not sure what kind of NDA they're under, or even whether they are breaking NDA by talking about future plans), can also make an effort to make publicly and widely available the information they receive privately.

If the level of communication on this forum gets to be at a level that is satisfactory to you, what does it matter that someone else might get a clue first?

alexj4596b14_ESO · June 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

LadyNerevar wrote: »

Entropy Rising gets "preferential treatment" because Atropos has been there since the very beginning. I'm not sure if Tamriel Foundry was the first ever ESO website, but it was certainly the best for the longest time. If you were a developer, would you listen to a fan (and a professional) who has obvious investment in your game, has played enough MMOs to be intimately familiar with and know how to dissect their mechanics, has given you critiques and advice since the pre-alpha build of the game... or would you listen to an unpunctuated post in the middle of a million others by a player who claims to have already quit your game? Whether you agree with him or not, Atropos knows his stuff.

I think it's pretty obvious why they'd choose to deal personally with a select few guilds and members, namely those who have previously been helpful (the Beta testers who got initial access to PTS, for example) and who have decent communication skills. Atropos, and the other people who ZOS is communicating directly with, have proven themselves reliable, knowledgeable, and professional. Even though they have the same problems as the rest of us, I imaging their chats with Gina don't involve curse words.

None of this means that I wouldn't like to see the developers involved in the forum community more (both here with ZOS and on the official forums with Bethesda). I do think that it's not unreasonable to have ZOS talking directly with what are basically their unpaid QA testers.

And, here's a secret: you, yes you, can also be a part of this select minority. How? Give good feedback, be polite, help others. The developers see that, they respect it, and they'll remember your name when the time comes.

Again, them taking feedback from certain guilds isn't really that big of an issue. The problem is the information that Zenimax gives back in return (mechanics clarifications, plans for future nerfs/buffs, etc.) that the rest of us don't see is.

Unfortunately, I don't see how this can ever be resolved. Even if Zenimax starts communicating better on their forums, who's to say they're still not communicating more in private? Even if we start getting helpful posts from developers about upcoming nerfs and buffs, who's to say Entropy Rising isn't still getting information about later buffs and nerfs after the ones we know about?

At this point we know nothing for those of us who only go too these forums. Nothing juicy is ever posted like what apparently they learn from the deves are. Before ER posted what they knew about the patches on these forums I didn't even know that ZoS knew there was a problem with stamina builds medium or heavy amour as far as I knew they knew everything was fine. That is mainly the point. The community wants more info, Not this we are looking into it crap unless it a vary new issue. But issues that have been present from the start or near start of the game we the community need too know by know what they may or may not be doing too help improve the problems and that they they are there. If We knew by now that they were working on stuff the pvp would still be alive and they would still have way more of their original subs. That is the point.

OnlyRecon · June 2014

Edited.

Maverick827 · June 2014

LadyNerevar wrote: »

If the level of communication on this forum gets to be at a level that is satisfactory to you, what does it matter that someone else might get a clue first?

The only level of communication that is satisfactory to me is the same amount that is given to other players, at least with regards to future content/changes.

I don't particularly do too much testing in this game, so I'm fine with Zenimax not deliberately seeking out my expertise on game mechanics. I am not fine with information about upcoming nerfs and buffs to be given secretly to certain players regardless of their expertise.

Ralathar44 · June 2014

Ya know, I've seen a guy at work forced to take home his own computer equipment that he brought from home to do his work better "because it showed he was receiving better treatment".

This reminds me alot about that. Forum politics are a large part of why getting proper feedback is so difficult. It's full of people pursuing only their own agenda and trying to light everything else on fire.

BadgerRider1 · June 2014

Receiving no communication from the company while other, "special" groups of people receive it really rankles my chain. I can deal with bugs and balancing issues, etc. but being treated as a 2nd class citizen is wholely unacceptable. The game is beautiful and fun to play but I just cant support favoritism.

Good luck all, and happy hunting.

Ralathar44 · June 2014

BadgerRider1 wrote: »

Receiving no communication from the company while other, "special" groups of people receive it really rankles my chain. I can deal with bugs and balancing issues, etc. but being treated as a 2nd class citizen is wholely unacceptable. The game is beautiful and fun to play but I just cant support favoritism.

Good luck all, and happy hunting.

Perfect example of my previous comment. Poster assumes something and lashes out.

Izatar · June 2014

Clearly this sort of teacher's pet favoritism has hurt the game. I have been in..position..in other games to see how it works. The thing is, there are layers and layers of deceits.
I have seen first hand other companies troll their competition by joining 'famous' guilds, using them as their 'beards', during alpha and beta testing. More often I have seen 'professional' gamers, aka gold farmers and toon sellers use these guilds as a way to gain advantage.

Trusting gaming guilds is a huge mistake.

Singular · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Wanted to pop in here and offer some clarification. The Community Team does indeed participate in regular voice chats with some of our most active guilds. The guilds we're currently in regular talks with are a good mix of PvP, PvE, and casual. In addition to reading the forums and fansites, this helps us to better understand what the main issues are and their severity, where the best opportunities for improvement are, and identify what everyone wants more details on. More often than not, we hear the same things over and over (such as Templars, weapons skills/stamina builds, and heavy armor needing improvements and in some case fixes, changes needed to make PvP more rewarding, etc.)

These talks do not replace or hold more value to us than what we read here on our official forums, and are often done in the late evening on our own time. It adds another layer of valuable insight, and gives us the opportunity to ask about things in-person that we need clarification or more details on.

All that said, we are doing what we can, when we can, to get in here and answer your questions more often.

Woohoo! Thank you for engaging with your community.

I suspect that many of us here would like to be party to discussions involving game mechanics, the future, etc.

I wonder if it would be possible for you to have a developer's section with threads about what is in the works, under consideration, being planned out? If done consistently, it would be well received.

OkieDokie · June 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Perfect example of my previous comment. Poster assumes something and lashes out.

Well, yes, people might react in different ways but in the end any analysis leads to the same result: there is a difference between them and us, and shouldn't be.

Quite simple, one could rewrite it in fancy words to explain why and how it is a good thing or not too bad. However, when you look through all that, what you see is 'yes, there is a difference'.

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

BadgerRider1 wrote: »

Receiving no communication from the company while other, "special" groups of people receive it really rankles my chain. I can deal with bugs and balancing issues, etc. but being treated as a 2nd class citizen is wholely unacceptable. The game is beautiful and fun to play but I just cant support favoritism.

Good luck all, and happy hunting.

Perfect example of my previous comment. Poster assumes something and lashes out.

I found your previous post to be a much better example of your previous comment, actually.

LadyNerevar · June 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

LadyNerevar wrote: »

If the level of communication on this forum gets to be at a level that is satisfactory to you, what does it matter that someone else might get a clue first?

The only level of communication that is satisfactory to me is the same amount that is given to other players, at least with regards to future content/changes.

Like I said, that's never going to be the case. There will always be someone up the chain from you (and me).

Let's say that, over the next month, ZOS hires a bunch more staff, overhauls the forum structure to be more accessible, answers most questions, does a weekly progress update on Fridays and updates us on progress of specific features as they come up. Or whatever idea of ideal forum communication is in your mind. Would you really be upset that one of them told another player that a skills is "not working as intended"? I can see why you'd take offence to them, say, laying out all the gameplay changes to come in the next update to a single player. But something as minor as the OP quotes? Really?

Let's say that you're at a really nice restaurant and you got a really great grilled cheese sandwich. Later, you check Yelp and find out that the restaurant down the street has a better rated grilled cheese sandwich. Are you retroactively upset that you got a really good meal?

Again: totally equal communication isn't a possibility, unless your idea of equality is everyone getting equally neglected. Good communication with the general player base via official channels (i.e. this forum, the website) is definitely doable, and should be a priority for any company.

Valn · June 2014

I'm looking at this thread on my phone and I might have to go to the hospital. My finger is broken from all the scrolling.

Valn · June 2014

Look at me, I can make words bold so I can tell people that I am correct.

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Valn wrote: »

Look at me, I can make words bold so I can tell people that I am correct.

What a bold act!

TheBucket · June 2014

I wouldn't say they actually listen to ER or any other guild out there. More like hear there input is a better phrase.

In rights.. They shouldn't take anything a guild has to say over their own professional staff.

API, and other topics are prime examples that they take what some of these guilds say with a grain of salt. Which the should..

Doctoruniverse · June 2014

Its a very interesting post, cant wait to see how zenimax will respond.

Lynx7386 · June 2014

I'm curios how the guild know that the person they talk to is a represent from ZoS?

Is it something that has been determined beforehand or does the guildmaster or something in the affected guild get a whisper in game saying that they have been choosen and that a representive from ZoS is coming on their TS channel?

If it's all out of the blue, how does the process go to make sure that the person talking actually is what they say they are?

In our case, the guild/gaming community has been in contact with these representatives since beta. Scheduling the discussions takes place outside of the game, through email or other systems.

Receiving no communication from the company while other, "special" groups of people receive it really rankles my chain. I can deal with bugs and balancing issues, etc. but being treated as a 2nd class citizen is wholely unacceptable. The game is beautiful and fun to play but I just cant support favoritism.

Good luck all, and happy hunting.

This sense of entitlement everyone seems to have is the real heart of the issue. Not everyone deserves equal treatment, that's just how the world works.

Maverick827 · June 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This sense of entitlement everyone seems to have is the real heart of the issue. Not everyone deserves equal treatment, that's just how the world works.

This isn't "the world." This is a service that we pay for.

Doctoruniverse · June 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This sense of entitlement everyone seems to have is the real heart of the issue. Not everyone deserves equal treatment, that's just how the world works.

Ohhh no and you were doing so well until you said this.

When zenimax closes their servers for "lack" of subscription and you are standing there asking "why oh WHY!" think back to this moment when you said 95% of the population didnt deserve the same treatment as the elitist 5%.

Cogo · June 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This sense of entitlement everyone seems to have is the real heart of the issue. Not everyone deserves equal treatment, that's just how the world works.

This isn't "the world." This is a service that we pay for.

Cool! Is Zenimax stating that the service of publishing everything they research to us? I am sorry to ask, but I am a contract nerd if you like. I love to know my rights.

Can you please point out where this service is explained?

Maverick827 · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This sense of entitlement everyone seems to have is the real heart of the issue. Not everyone deserves equal treatment, that's just how the world works.

This isn't "the world." This is a service that we pay for.

Cool! Is Zenimax stating that the service of publishing everything they research to us? I am sorry to ask, but I am a contract nerd if you like. I love to know my rights.

Can you please point out where this service is explained?

I'm not sure what you're asking, but your hostile tone is noticeable and unnecessary.

Quaesivi · June 2014

So lets see...
Melee stuff and HoT/DoT is supposed to get fixed at patch 2.0... so when is that? In 2 years? Fixing a mechanic that has been faulty from the start, well at least there are plans on it.
Moving on.
So this is the -world- you say? That not everyone should get equal treatment? Please explain to me why your 15$/13€ is better than mine and that should entitle you to a better treatment? Unless you are paying 20$/17€ or more, thats a huge logical failure, and since you also claimed that your guild is in contact with Staff members, and your arrogance dripping from your every single word about how high and mighty you guys are, you are actually hurting the game more, considering people will rage more that people like you are in contact while rest of us "normal" people are hoping for a miracle.

Honestly, it is kinda funny that people think we are personally attacking or actually mean harm. If we didn't care about the success of the game, we couldn't bother less, however most of us I'm sure want this game to succeed as a TES MMO, not another generic pile of steaming dung.

Main thing that bothers people, which some still seem to fail to understand. We do not care about the "Feedback Sessions" or whatever you call it, they can talk sure, they can get information, sure. Problem starts when that said information is kept from the rest of the players, for some reason we are unworthy. I can understand that they really wish to ignore all the forums and focus on their so called fans, ignoring the dung and smelling the roses, sure. But that thing does not go away on its own unless you fix it but instead, you bring in more and more pile of those smelly things.

Yea, I guess that is enough ranting for today, not like with their attitude this is ever going to get fixed, at the end of the day, I don't even regret the money I spent, I just regret there will be a pile of steaming dung that is called ESO, soiling the rest of the TES games, hell I hated Oblivion with passion but not as much as this, thanks to the road the Staff has chosen.

NakedSnake · June 2014

You pay you play...end of story. Your monthly fee does not entitle you know the ins and out's of development. Next thing you'll be wanting the devs to email you before they take a ***.

Darlgon · June 2014

LadyNerevar wrote: »

None of this means that I wouldn't like to see the developers involved in the forum community more (both here with ZOS and on the official forums with Bethesda). I do think that it's not unreasonable to have ZOS talking directly with what are basically their unpaid QA testers.

Err.. these ARE the official forums. The ones that are on the Bethesda website always said they were temporary and un-official. Frankly, I have not checked that cesspool since the official forums spun up with early access.

Maverick827 · June 2014

NakedSnake wrote: »

You pay you play...end of story. Your monthly fee does not entitle you know the ins and out's of development. Next thing you'll be wanting the devs to email you before they take a ***.

Only if the devs taking a *** is in the 1.3 patch notes and they already told Entropy Rising about it.