Racism in zone chats.

Shanna · June 2014

Someone who can make you angry has power over you. Stop letting random Internet people have that power. Problem solved.

Evandus · June 2014

There were 4 people going back and forth for over two hours in Stormhaven zone chat last night for over 2 hours. Some of the most nasty, racially and ethnically charged, nationalistic, garbage I've witnessed in 10+ years of online gaming. Reminded me of accidentally dropping in on some 4 Chan chatroom somewhere by accident.

My only question about the situation surrounded why this was allowed to go on for over 2 hours before anything was done?

ferzalrwb17_ESO · June 2014

HelpingHand wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I prefer that people speak their mind so that a racist idiot isn't hiding their true nature out of fear of what they perceive to be the "pc elite".

That way I can ignore them immediately.

^^fishing^^

I sometimes troll more obscure topics but I don't dangle out a hook to catch a racist by the toe. I just notice them and /ignore. There's no need to say anything.

The other reason I prefer honesty is so that we know just how far we haven't come and how many morons are still in need of education. If we hide it by forcing these simple folk to shut up then everything only appears ok on the surface.

Rosveen · June 2014

HelpingHand wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Not really. I see it quite often in ESO (and many other MMOs). There's a plethora of disruptive players who spew some pretty rotten words just for the sake of doing it. They're not waiting for somebody to say "Hey! I'm a <insert relgioun here> faithful" before they run at the mouth. More often than not, it's somebody raging because something in game stoked their anger (missed out on chest loot, died repeatedly from a boss, had a bad dungeon run, bugged quest, etc..) and say something stupid in zone chat like "This @ game is %@#$ me off! Just like those @%$@!ing <insert religious faith, race, sexual orientation>"

Happens all the time. And nobody went fishing for those opinions.

You missed the point entirely where the OP said someone was attacking 'his' beliefs. The only way people know 'his' beliefs is if he stated them. Just stop before you hurt yourself. We aren't defending discrimination. We are offering a solution to the problem. Don't tell people you don't know your personal beliefs, and you don't have the OPs problem. #facts.

Not necessarily true. Picture this; someone in zone chat starts spewing vitriol at a random race/religion they dislike. Maybe they were provoked by someone else. Maybe they just enjoy insulting strangers online. Doesn't matter. The OP sees it and as a member of said race/religion, feels insulted. Overreaction maybe, we should all know better than to take such things personally, but it's still understandable.

seanolan · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Your faith is a personal choice and belief system that you embrace. If you choose to bring it up in chat, you don't get to complain when it's attacked.

Oh I dunno about that.

If somebody says something along the lines of "All @#$%!! <insert religious faction here> are the @#^$ing bane of the earth and all deserve to hang any their @#$#! for their %@#$!ing evil ways! <insert more explicit vulgarities here in any random order>"

Then yeah... I do believe they are allowed to complain.

Yes, for the profanity. But since most religious debates between people of faith pretty much come down to "[X] is going to burn for all eternity for their beliefs," the rest is to be expected when you bring up faith in a computer game.

While I realize to disagree with you, Nerevarine, is to automatically be wrong, by all your posts and standards, I would ask where the OP mentioned ever having made any initial comment about his/her faith in zone chat, or indeed in the post you responded to in the quoted text? To my woefully ignorant and untrained eye, it appears that this instance quoted,for example, is one of a random person simply spouting off hate speech, but since your expert Holmesian perception indicates someone bringing up faith prior to the anti-faith comment, surely I am in error and you can explain it to me, and all the others in this discussion.

We await with baited breath sir.

Shanna · June 2014

HelpingHand wrote: »

You missed the point entirely where the OP said someone was attacking 'his' beliefs. The only way people know 'his' beliefs is if he stated them. Just stop before you hurt yourself. We aren't defending discrimination. We are offering a solution to the problem. Don't tell people you don't know your personal beliefs, and you don't have the OPs problem. #facts.

In the effort of fairness, this statement isn't necessarily true. The OP could be sitting over there with his beliefs and fuming silently, watching as people berate what he believes in.

DenverRalphy · June 2014

HelpingHand wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Not really. I see it quite often in ESO (and many other MMOs). There's a plethora of disruptive players who spew some pretty rotten words just for the sake of doing it. They're not waiting for somebody to say "Hey! I'm a <insert relgioun here> faithful" before they run at the mouth. More often than not, it's somebody raging because something in game stoked their anger (missed out on chest loot, died repeatedly from a boss, had a bad dungeon run, bugged quest, etc..) and say something stupid in zone chat like "This @ game is %@#$ me off! Just like those @%$@!ing <insert religious faith, race, sexual orientation>"

Happens all the time. And nobody went fishing for those opinions.

You missed the point entirely where the OP said someone was attacking 'his' beliefs. The only way people know 'his' beliefs is if he stated them. Just stop before you hurt yourself. We aren't defending discrimination. We are offering a solution to the problem. Don't tell people you don't know your personal beliefs, and you don't have the OPs problem. #facts.

You're still hung up that they were specifically attacking him personally. Are you somehow under the impression that when anybody randomly makes a slur against Black, White, Jewish, Muslim, Bhuddist, Gay, Christian, American, Chinese, or whatever else you can think of, that there's no chance anybody would be offended? C'mon, seriously...

If somebody makes a racial or faith based slur in game, regardless the faith or race targeted, they know very well that somebody in game will probably be offended. The chances that the OP's faith was randomly slurred is actually quite high (and I state this without even needing to know his beliefs). So yes, "his beliefs" were attacked, but to suggest that he brought it on himself is just ludicrous.

Kingslayer · June 2014

I see it time and time again on the eu server and for some reason it seems to be from the Nordic Countries a lot of the racism on the eu server. A lot of them see it as normal and just post whatever they may think about a certain subject. It happens in these games. Racists are everywhere this isn't public life where the police can enforce the law.

HelpingHand · June 2014

Rosveen wrote: »

Not necessarily true. Picture this; someone in zone chat starts spewing vitriol at a random race/religion they dislike. Maybe they were provoked by someone else. Maybe they just enjoy insulting strangers online. Doesn't matter. The OP sees it and as a member of said race/religion, feels insulted. Overreaction maybe, we should all know better than to take such things personally, but it's still understandable.

I completely agree with what you are saying. That was already addressed as well. Right click, and ignore. Then you don't see it. The OP words insinuate 'his personal' beliefs were attacked. The words literally spell out 'I said what I believed, and someone else went off on me for what I said.'

MasterSpatula · June 2014

I see more bigotry in Zone than I expected, too (including religious bigotry, and yes, it sometimes does come completely out of nowhere). I don't see people get called out on it very often. I suspect that's less because people tolerate it than people realize you can't win a flame war with an a-hole.

HelpingHand · June 2014

Shanna wrote: »

In the effort of fairness, this statement isn't necessarily true. The OP could be sitting over there with his beliefs and fuming silently, watching as people berate what he believes in.

Answered. Right click and ignore.

HelpingHand · June 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're still hung up that they were specifically attacking him personally. Are you somehow under the impression that when anybody randomly makes a slur against Black, White, Jewish, Muslim, Bhuddist, Gay, Christian, American, Chinese, or whatever else you can think of, that there's no chance anybody would be offended? C'mon, seriously...

If somebody makes a racial or faith based slur in game, regardless the faith or race targeted, they know very well that somebody in game will probably be offended. The chances that the OP's faith was randomly slurred is actually quite high (and I state this without even needing to know his beliefs). So yes, "his beliefs" were attacked, but to suggest that he brought it on himself is just ludicrous.

Answered. Right click and ignore.

Reykice · June 2014

Saying the "n" word once is fine, he might now know... saying multiple racial words on purpose and so on then yea ban his ass.

Saying anything about God/Muhammad or whatever other name people worship is not really anything.... if i say "God does not exist" you can`t really prove he does in any court of law unless you can bring him there or a picture/video of him...

Saying "everyone believing in <insert religious name> is a <insert racial word>" again should get him banned for multiple uses.

Saying anything on whisper should only get him a warning at most as you can ignore him...

But i`m not sure they do much i reported people who had names(in my language) translated to "***" or "***" or other similar things... i got the standard "we won`t disclose what we will do bla bla" but the player is still fine and using that name. So i`m not sure how much they care.

Drasn · June 2014

I don't know, I really couldn't care less. The person doing the insulting and attacking has usually reached some point in an argument that they have nothing left of intelligence to say, and as such has resorted to this. In the end it only makes them look bad and unintelligent. Not to mention, said people are remembered because word of their exploits does spread.

We live in a society too caught up in silencing people under the guise of political correctness. Words are hurtful and will always be hurtful if you allow them to be. No amount of policing is ever going to change that.

You have to the tools to ignore such people yourself. Someone bashing on your religious preference, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or even favorite flavor of ice cream in no way changes those things about you.

Be proud of who are, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. Let the haters hate, in the long run the only person they are truly insulting is themselves.

DenverRalphy · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Saying the "n" word once is fine, he might now know... saying multiple racial words on purpose and so on then yea ban his ass.

Saying the "n" word once, is never fine. Nor would any derogatory word with a negative connotation towards any race be okay to ever say... not even once.

jeradlub17_ESO · June 2014

HelpingHand wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Not really. I see it quite often in ESO (and many other MMOs). There's a plethora of disruptive players who spew some pretty rotten words just for the sake of doing it. They're not waiting for somebody to say "Hey! I'm a <insert relgioun here> faithful" before they run at the mouth. More often than not, it's somebody raging because something in game stoked their anger (missed out on chest loot, died repeatedly from a boss, had a bad dungeon run, bugged quest, etc..) and say something stupid in zone chat like "This @ game is %@#$ me off! Just like those @%$@!ing <insert religious faith, race, sexual orientation>"

Happens all the time. And nobody went fishing for those opinions.

You missed the point entirely where the OP said someone was attacking 'his' beliefs. The only way people know 'his' beliefs is if he stated them. Just stop before you hurt yourself. We aren't defending discrimination. We are offering a solution to the problem. Don't tell people you don't know your personal beliefs, and you don't have the OPs problem. #facts.

This isn't true at all. They don't need to know his beliefs for him to feel they were attacking them. I've seen immature hateful rants in zone that offended my personal religious beliefs of which I was never a participant in the conversation. They don't need to know your race or your beliefs to write a hateful statement offending the group you are in that you witness. To think that they have to know your stance on a subject to offend you is a bad assumption. You have been making way too many assumptions. Denver was right.

Shanna · June 2014

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

We live in a society too caught up in silencing people under the guise of political correctness. Words are hurtful and will always be hurtful if you allow them to be. No amount of policing is ever going to change that.

Agreed. While words are often indicative of mindset/societal paradigm, censoring the words does nothing to change the mentality. It can actually do more harm in the long run, as suppressed hatred tends to surface in other ways....kind of like plugging a volcano.

seanolan · June 2014

Shanna wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

We live in a society too caught up in silencing people under the guise of political correctness. Words are hurtful and will always be hurtful if you allow them to be. No amount of policing is ever going to change that.

Agreed. While words are often indicative of mindset/societal paradigm, censoring the words does nothing to change the mentality. It can actually do more harm in the long run, as suppressed hatred tends to surface in other ways....kind of like plugging a volcano.

Right. This is why shunning a member of society has been proven to be the most effective means of curbing negative behavior known, and why censorship is considered one of the most abusive tools of a totalitarian government. Because it is ineffective to curb someone's speech.

Reykice · June 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Saying the "n" word once is fine, he might now know... saying multiple racial words on purpose and so on then yea ban his ass.

Saying the "n" word once, is never fine. Nor would any derogatory word with a negative connotation towards any race be okay to ever say... not even once.

He may not know... you hear it in movies all the time, do you think most white people who have no black people in their country know that only black people can use it?:)) I assure you they don`t.

I find it stupid anyway, if anyone can use it then all should be able to, its racist towards white people not to allow them to use it when every movie out there has black people saying it no problem. There are even songs with the name in the title...

EDIT: Also, if anyone say the "N" word, how can you see, in a video game, if he is white or black?

EDIT2: What if i just write lyrics of a song that is on the radio... a song that has the "n" word once per lyric?

keto3000 · June 2014

Hmm. I personally feel this is all about using 'common sense." Game chats should be governed by the same rules of courtesy that most of us agree upon in the real world. There are already game rules/EULA clearly established and in place. Players are here to play the game and exchange mutual ideas of interest.

Zone chat participants, IMO, should primarily keep to game-oriented topics that involve the whole zone audience (including new players.) If you want to go back and forth with just 1 or 2 other players, then form a group chat or PST each other.

Personal, one-on-one heated conversations on non-game topics in zone chat just destroys the 'concept of a public zone chat' and turns off the rest of the players involved.

Use of inflammatory slurs, bigoted attacks and "repeat flamers" should be reported immediately. It's up to us ( and Zenimax) in our community to be vigilant and help to keep zone chats a fun, open game chat oriented environment with a positive attitude.

************ In My Opinion**********

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

Those Tribunal-worshipping Dunmer are the worst.

Blackwidow · June 2014

I just want to say that anyone who makes racist comments/jokes should be banned or severely warned. Hate talk of any kind really should not be put up with.

However, I think making fun of religion should be open game.

If you don't have a sense of humor about your own religion, you need to lighten up.

Kulrig · June 2014

FrauPerchta wrote: »

Unless I am in a group I pretty much ignore chat.

My many years of playing online games has taught me one thing; general chat is a cesspool of trolls and epeen stroking contests, especially the lower level zones. Thus, for this game I made a new chat tab consisting of Group and NPC. Not only can I now understand the Prophet through the extreme echo and racket of the Dark Anchor chains, but don't have to deal with undesirables and their particular sense of humor whenever I roll an alt.

Lalai · June 2014

Report them, ignore them, and move on. Sadly there's a lot of remarks that are offensive, and not really needed/appropriate/whatever else word you wanna stick to it. Happens with race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and whatever else people can imagine up to hate each other over. It's ultimately up to the game company as to whether or not something is bannable, not to the individuals. Best thing you can do is to ignore the offending people.

Swordguy · June 2014

Zone chat is pretty much the ingame equivalent to the General section of the forums. If you actually think its worth taking seriously, you are probably new to mmo's, or the internet... in that order.

that being said, everyone on this planet is a slave to a power greater than themselves... religion is just the acceptance of it.

driosketch · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

I just want to say that anyone who makes racist comments/jokes should be banned or severely warned. Hate talk of any kind really should not be put up with.

However, I think making fun of religion should be open game.

If you don't have a sense of humor about your own religion, you need to lighten up.

I disagree with this sentiment on its basis. For one, you should not stratify hate speech where some is not okay, and other is open game. If that was the case, I would reverse the two personally. I didn't choose my race, and I find slurs against it an amusement at worst. A set of beliefs, however, are developed over a life of experience and shape/are shaped by your core being.

The hate on the latter usually comes from one of two places. Reciprocal hate, "they hate me, so I hate them", which never leads to an intelligent discussion. Or tied to cultural and ethnic prejudices, which in practice is indistinguishable from racism.

Of course the merits of what is or is not fair game is not the issue. This isn't your constitutional free speech, but the chat system owned by a private company and governed by rules you agree to when you sign up. If you see it, report and/or ignore. End of story.

Blackwidow · June 2014

driosketch wrote: »

For one, you should not stratify hate speech where some is not okay, and other is open game.

Yes, I said "Hate talk of any kind really should not be put up with."

However, jokes about religion in my personal view is not hate speech.

Of course almost any jokes can be argued that it is hate speech, if you choose to look at it that way. I don't.

End of story.

It's usually people who end their posts with "End of story." that might need to lighten up a little.

Worstluck · June 2014

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Those Tribunal-worshipping Dunmer are the worst.

Agreed, they are false gods. They will soon know the power of Mehrunes Dagon!

driosketch · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

For one, you should not stratify hate speech where some is not okay, and other is open game.

Yes, I said "Hate talk of any kind really should not be put up with."

However, jokes about religion in my personal view is not hate speech.

Of course almost any jokes can be argued that it is hate speech, if you choose to look at it that way. I don't.

End of story.

It's usually people who end their posts with "End of story." that might need to lighten up a little.

You didn't say jokes, you said making fun of. But now that you highlight the distinction, on your last line, you tell people to have a sense of humor when you're laughing with them, not laughing at them. That's just stupid.

Phinix1 · June 2014

HelpingHand wrote: »

Learn to leave faith out of conversation in an online video game, where people of all sorts of beliefs will exist, and you won't have this problem. If you bring up faith in a conversation and then you can't handle peoples responses, learn to leave it out.

I would add to this, that we are currently living in an age where people have been brainwashed by disgusting corporate greed to blame the lack of progress in regenerative medicine and social equality on people of faith. So you get a lot of that "screw god, you are all sheep" low-brow crap. Mostly from people that are bigger sheep than anyone.

If anyone is stupid enough to believe the ONLY reason for the failure of modern civilization is anything but unprecedented greed is fooling themselves, but people are all frantic and terrified of death and looking for someone to blame, and the age-old oppression by power mongers usurping the church is an easy card to play, so they do.

Not being a person of faith myself (agnostic) I get it from both sides. The religious people hate me because I won't jump off their bridge with them, and the fad-of-the-moment atheist cool kids hate me because they are convinced acknowledging possibilities is some sort of weakness (in spite of the lack of evidence either way).

I've just accepted I don't like people much and will never have any friends. Being white the most racism I have had to deal with is the imposed social guilt where somehow I am the only one who isn't allowed to complain about anything no matter how much corporations *** my consciousness for profit.