Racism in zone chats.

Blackwidow

Kaynlor wrote: »

I don't generally watch chat, but did observe one exchange where religious belief was involved.
Someone made a comment about a boss/dungeon they had just completed and made a "Jesus Christ blah blah blah " comparison. Other players started riffing on the "Jesus Christ blah blah blah" (which I found comical). Finally, and offended player asked why people were making fun of Jesus Christ, and that it wouldn't be acceptable to make fun of Mohammed. At that point, even more players jumped in to make fun of all deities and their prophets/leaders.

As it should be.

If I said Zeus was an idiot, would I get banned? No.

I should be able to make fun of any mythical person I want.

Bugs Bunny is a drunk and a wife beater. True story.

Dayv

I can't believe this thread hasn't been closed yet. Hopefully, they're looking at something important instead.

Venithar

Blackwidow wrote: »

Venithar wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

'Your faith is a personal choice and belief system that you embrace. If you choose to bring it up in chat, you don't get to complain when it's attacked'

Expecting everyone to care that you are black / yellow / green / pink / orange / whatever color you want to call yourself is a choice as well....

Yeah, i'm going to have to stop you there.

Arguing that being a racist is the same as making fun of religion is not going to fly.

Also, most wars are religious based. That's just a historical fact. Sorry.

I could go on, but why bother.

Thank you.

Since I am black, I feel I can say that racism and making fun of religions are exactly the same. Sorry to tell you this, but your opinion on a religion, be it positive or negative has the exact same effect on a person of religion as your opinion on a person subjected to racism. It is also why the FBI classifies all hate speech the same, be it religious or racism.

As for your "historical fact" keep on drinking that koolaid.

Edit: I gave a list of wars that had nothing to do with religion (which actually are the vast majority of wars), perhaps you would care to counter with something other then claiming most are because of religion?

Tannakaobi

Kaynlor wrote: »

I don't generally watch chat, but did observe one exchange where religious belief was involved.
Someone made a comment about a boss/dungeon they had just completed and made a "Jesus Christ blah blah blah " comparison. Other players started riffing on the "Jesus Christ blah blah blah" (which I found comical). Finally, and offended player asked why people were making fun of Jesus Christ, and that it wouldn't be acceptable to make fun of Mohammed. At that point, even more players jumped in to make fun of all deities and their prophets/leaders.

When an offended player asked why people were making fun of Jesus Christ, and that it wouldn't be acceptable to make fun of Mohammed. They were either very naive or were trying to cause a reaction. either way, they got what they asked for.

Wouldn't the religious thing to do in this situation be to offer the other cheek and forgive? i.e ignore it and not let it bother them.

Artemiisia

things that dont belong in a online game

If you start one of these yourself, better be prepared to take the heat.

Religion
Beliefs
Faith
Rasisme
Cruel Behavior
Politics

Im with more on this forum, if OP is using chat zone to talk about his faith, he starting it, not condoning the reaction what so ever.

both for me should not had started.

All these subjects are all that will end in a bad conversation.



and for another aspect, I truly hate drunk people starting this, its like arguing with the ester bunny that he dont exist

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Venithar wrote: »

Sorry to tell you this, but your opinion on a religion, be it positive or negative has the exact same effect on a person of religion as your opinion on a person subjected to racism.

If someone's offended by what others say about their beliefs, they have a problem. How can any sensible person be upset if someone else pokes fun at the deity they [the offended one] believe in.

It's not rational!

If people stopped worrying about what others think many would be a lot happier in life.

dolanjamieb16_ESO

I can honestly say i have never seen this

Report is about the only thing that can be done though i guess

Arsenic_Touch

In the name of the Pasta, and the Sauce and the Holy Meatball, I bless you!

Accept His Noodly Magnificence into your heart, into your soul, and ye shall forever be free. R'Amen.

Venithar

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

If someone's offended by what others say about their beliefs, they have a problem. How can any sensible person be upset if someone else pokes fun at the deity they [the offended one] believe in.

It's not rational!

If people stopped worrying about what others think many would be a lot happier in life.

I see, so you are telling me, that because a person believes in something and another person completely insults them for that belief, them being offended is not rational?
So I suppose, if you believed your mother was going to live even though she had terminal cancer and maybe 24 hours to live, you wouldn't mind if someone told you that she was just a dumb <insert obscene name here> and it didn't matter if she died because the world wouldn't miss her anyway, right?

Also, your arguement there can be equally applied to racism.

Blackwidow

Venithar wrote: »

Since I am black, I feel I can say that racism and making fun of religions are exactly the same.

You can, but you would be wrong.

BTW, it was a little racist to use the black card.

Sorry to tell you this, but your opinion on a religion, be it positive or negative has the exact same effect on a person of religion as your opinion on a person subjected to racism.

Yes, both can hurt a person's feelings. Then again, anything can hurt a person's feelings.

The difference between racial slurs and religious ones is, a race is not an ideology, it is not a person or persons.

When you make fun of a religion, you are just joking about an idea.

When you are a racist, you are just being prejudiced against a person or persons.

It is also why the FBI classifies all hate speech the same, be it religious or racism.

I'm not talking about hate speech. Saying you hate Jewish people or Catholics is hateful and ignorant.

But if you say a rabbi and a priest walk into a bar..that is just comedy gold.

As for your "historical fact" keep on drinking that koolaid.

What a witty insult with no facts to support your side.

Venithar

Blackwidow wrote: »

When you make fun of a religion, you are just joking about an idea.

And herein lies the problem. To you it is an idea, to them it is a fact, and not only a fact, but a fact that is as much part of thier life as the color of thier skin.

Edit: I gave plenty of examples of wars that had nothing to do with religion... care to prove your side?

Edit II:

Blackwidow wrote: »

As for your "historical fact" keep on drinking that koolaid.

What a witty insult with no facts to support your side.

Since I know everyone likes to just parrot what they hear without ever checking facts....

According to the Encyclopedia of Wars (Phillips and Axelrod), of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them can be classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s less than 7 percent.

The encyclopedia also explains that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to only two percent. This means that even when wars have been fought over religious disputes, they tend to be less bloody than when they are fought for other reasons.

Rocksteady

Venithar wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

When you make fun of a religion, you are just joking about an idea.

And herein lies the problem. To you it is an idea, to them it is a fact, and not only a fact, but a fact that is as much part of thier life as the color of thier skin.

Edit: I gave plenty of examples of wars that had nothing to do with religion... care to prove your side?

Edit II:

[quote="Blackwidow;980967"

As for your "historical fact" keep on drinking that koolaid.

What a witty insult with no facts to support your side.

So we can only joke about ideas nobody believes in? What a strange concept.

Rubberlad

seanolan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

seanolan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Your faith is a personal choice and belief system that you embrace. If you choose to bring it up in chat, you don't get to complain when it's attacked.

Oh I dunno about that.

If somebody says something along the lines of "All @#$%!! <insert religious faction here> are the @#^$ing bane of the earth and all deserve to hang any their @#$#! for their %@#$!ing evil ways! <insert more explicit vulgarities here in any random order>"

Then yeah... I do believe they are allowed to complain.

Yes, for the profanity. But since most religious debates between people of faith pretty much come down to "[X] is going to burn for all eternity for their beliefs," the rest is to be expected when you bring up faith in a computer game.

While I realize to disagree with you, Nerevarine, is to automatically be wrong, by all your posts and standards, I would ask where the OP mentioned ever having made any initial comment about his/her faith in zone chat, or indeed in the post you responded to in the quoted text? To my woefully ignorant and untrained eye, it appears that this instance quoted,for example, is one of a random person simply spouting off hate speech, but since your expert Holmesian perception indicates someone bringing up faith prior to the anti-faith comment, surely I am in error and you can explain it to me, and all the others in this discussion.

We await with baited breath sir.

While I don't understand your insistence on making a debate intensely personal, the OP made a thread about racial slurs and slipped in something about attacks on his religion. Generally, one doesn't wander into zone chat and, just by happenstance, find that everyone is attacking one's chosen belief system.

That said, I'm sure it could have happened like that. But religious arguments in game chats (and life) are usually fueled by someone deciding that they ought to mention why their religion is the best religion.

Actually, it happens all the time. I have logged into the game and found discussions bashing gays, bashing Jews, blacks, Muslims, Chinese, women, almost any minority you can name. As a gay man, I did take offense at the gay bashing, and felt a sense of personal attack, as you can hardly say "all gay men are X" and expect me to not feel included in that attack. As a person of conscience, I felt offended at the attacks on minorities I was not a member of, in spite of not being included in the sweeping attack. So yes, it is possible to feel attacked without ever having mentioned ones own beliefs or race or religion.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

I'll second this notion about feeling attacked for my sexuality in-game as well (its also interesting that the OP/discussion only focuses on race/religion but all replies except this one I've just quoted acknowledge the homophobic rants as well). I can't tell you how many times I've heard homophobic rants in zone chat, how many times the channel talks explicit straight sex like everyone does it (when plenty of us don't), and how many times I've heard the word f****t (much to my sadness). I assume a lot of the chat comments are just kids trying to troll the ongoing conversation but sometimes there are adults chiming in to - especially when they get defensive about homosexuality and how it offends their faith (which is when the faith-hating comes into play usually).

Personally, ESO's been great about recognizing LGBT characters/relationships in game, recognizing the diversity of race, and presenting many varieties of faith (or at least ESO's many varieties of faith) so as an LGBT player I feel very welcome to step into the world of ESO and be myself whilst still learning to appreciate and respect these differences in others. Where others fail to enjoy this same experience, rather than ask for heavier moderation or censorship, I'll just hit /ignore - and I'm good to go.

Trolls never last long when they don't have an audience to intimidate or offend (because /ignore prevents them from being heard) - or at least that's been my experience.

Blackwidow

Venithar wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

When you make fun of a religion, you are just joking about an idea.

And herein lies the problem. To you it is an idea, to them it is a fact, and not only a fact

And they should have an open mind and a sense of humor about it.

but a fact that is as much part of their life as the color of their skin.

No, they can change religions, they can't change their race.

Also, they were born a race. They chose to believe is a mythical being that lives in the sky.

I'm sorry if you don't find that funny, but I do.

I don't hate anyone for being religious. Religion can be a positive thing, but it can also be a great thing to laugh at.

You might as well tell me that jokes about Astrology is off limits because some people take that seriously.

Wait, some people think ghosts are real? No ghost jokes?

What about Bigfoot? Is that an okay subject?

I gave plenty of examples of wars that had nothing to do with religion... care to prove your side?

No, you just said they were not based on religion. It's not the same thing.

Dayv

Venithar wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

If someone's offended by what others say about their beliefs, they have a problem. How can any sensible person be upset if someone else pokes fun at the deity they [the offended one] believe in.

It's not rational!

If people stopped worrying about what others think many would be a lot happier in life.

I see, so you are telling me, that because a person believes in something and another person completely insults them for that belief, them being offended is not rational?
So I suppose, if you believed your mother was going to live even though she had terminal cancer and maybe 24 hours to live, you wouldn't mind if someone told you that she was just a dumb <insert obscene name here> and it didn't matter if she died because the world wouldn't miss her anyway, right?

Also, your arguement there can be equally applied to racism.

^^^^
This is exactly what the insightful button wasn't invented for.

Venithar

Blackwidow wrote: »

Venithar wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

When you make fun of a religion, you are just joking about an idea.

And herein lies the problem. To you it is an idea, to them it is a fact, and not only a fact

And they should have an open mind and a sense of humor about it.

but a fact that is as much part of their life as the color of their skin.

No, they can change religions, they can't change their race.

Also, they were born a race. They chose to believe is a mythical being that lives in the sky.

I'm sorry if you don't find that funny, but I do.

I don't hate anyone for being religious. Religion can be a positive thing, but it can also be a great thing to laugh at.

You might as well tell me that jokes about Astrology is off limits because some people take that seriously.

Wait, some people think ghosts are real? No ghost jokes?

What about Bigfoot? Is that an okay subject?

I gave plenty of examples of wars that had nothing to do with religion... care to prove your side?

No, you just said they were not based on religion. It's not the same thing.

Venithar wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

When you make fun of a religion, you are just joking about an idea.

And herein lies the problem. To you it is an idea, to them it is a fact, and not only a fact, but a fact that is as much part of thier life as the color of thier skin.

Edit: I gave plenty of examples of wars that had nothing to do with religion... care to prove your side?

Edit II:

Blackwidow wrote: »

As for your "historical fact" keep on drinking that koolaid.

What a witty insult with no facts to support your side.

Since I know everyone likes to just parrot what they hear without ever checking facts....

According to the Encyclopedia of Wars (Phillips and Axelrod), of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them can be classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s less than 7 percent.

The encyclopedia also explains that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to only two percent. This means that even when wars have been fought over religious disputes, they tend to be less bloody than when they are fought for other reasons.

yup, I totally just made stuff up....

I should also point out, that some religions you are born into.

hk11

So this thread is still going on about how it's OK to personally attack people for religion, but off limits for everything else?

Venithar

hk11 wrote: »

So this thread is still going on about how it's OK to personally attack people for religion, but off limits for everything else?

pretty much

Crumpy

Serious and repeat offenders who post discriminatory messages in in-game chat should be warned and then banned if they continue.

seaef

I think the majority of you here don't seem to understand the difference between a racist and a bigot.

A racist discriminates specifically on the basis of race. All racists are bigots.

A bigot is an narrow-minded and intolerant person who discriminates against others on the basis of almost any quality (sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, religion, etc.). Not all bigots are racists.

Don't confuse the two because the word racist is a loaded term and no good will come from throwing it around indiscriminately on a forum.

Lodestar

Venithar wrote: »

Since I am black, I feel I can say that racism and making fun of religions are exactly the same. Sorry to tell you this, but your opinion on a religion, be it positive or negative has the exact same effect on a person of religion as your opinion on a person subjected to racism. It is also why the FBI classifies all hate speech the same, be it religious or racism.

As for your "historical fact" keep on drinking that koolaid.

Edit: I gave a list of wars that had nothing to do with religion (which actually are the vast majority of wars), perhaps you would care to counter with something other then claiming most are because of religion?

Many do feature elements of it in fairness to the poster above.

I have to say on the whole I agree with you. Wilful ignorance (not to be confused with the ignorance of the uneducated or inexperienced), and the practice of intolerance and self importance are all the same. Just different facets.

As I have gotten more mature, I came to realise, the person that truly respects and values personal freedom, and self sovereignty. Is the one who truly values it in it's entirety for all around them. Not just for their own selves.

When we see people say things like, I am not racist, and racism is wrong, then hypocritically engage in it, or engage in some other form of intolerance. It is clear to me they have only learned it is unsociably unacceptable by indoctrination. Not because, they genuinely believe in respect and equality for all.

RedTalon

Those are reportable offenses be sure to report them and include screenshots

AngryNord

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

In the name of the Pasta, and the Sauce and the Holy Meatball, I bless you!

Accept His Noodly Magnificence into your heart, into your soul, and ye shall forever be free. R'Amen.

Cadwell is a Pastafarian, isn't he? Just look at his head :P

Blackwidow

Venithar wrote: »

I should also point out, that some religions you are born into.

It is still a choice.

My wife was born Jewish, but she is no longer.

ZOS_LenaicR

Hi there,

Closing this thread, as our Community Code of Conduct does not allow for posts about religions.

If anyone ever come across this kind of behavior in-game or on the forums and you feel that it violates our TOS, please report them using the provided tools.

We welcome constructive discussion of the game, but threads dedicated only to flaming will be closed.