Forcing group in Craglorn makes the content inaccessible, ZoS, please consider.

Head.hunter · June 2014

I think you guys should really consider the other posts in pve discussion, and the people who are bored with strictly solo content. I didn't even find it boring, and still think craglorn needs to be group-based.

It's an end-game zone, at the very least mobs/bosses should be tough enough that you need a group of players to take them out. You guys are looking at how fun it would be to solo a zone, but what are the consequences of forced solo-questing to the variety of gameplay options in ESO? Finishing end-game in three seconds? Phasing out players who want to solo custom soloable mobs so the group section can have even less players to group with than they currently do?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

So, genius, how do those you're telling to G-T-F-O of Carglorn level VR11-VR12?

The fatal flaw in your argument that the QQers should go somewhere else is thinking Craglorn is END-GAME.

It's NOT, the level cap is VR12 and Craglorn is the ONLY zone you can viably get to VR12.

So yes, ZOS ARE FORCING you to go and group-up simply to LEVEL.

There, go it now?

Craglorn as a place for group-or-die phat-lewt hunting and e-peen waving is fine if there's some place else for soloers and smaller-than-4 groups (ie. the many couples that play MMOs) can go to reach VR12, but there isn't.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Sallakat wrote: »

In all MMOs there are content that can be accessed with a group only (like raids), it just happens that ESO decided to dedicate a whole zone for it. If you're upset about not being able to explore there solo, think of Crag just as one huge raid or something

See my post above, Craglorn is NOT END-GAME so mentioning raids and the like is simply a distraction, the level cap is VR12 and ONLY Craglorn offers VR11/VR12 mobs.

Your argument is flawed as this zone isn't what you're trying to make out it is.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO · June 2014

God forbid an MMO has group content. As a long time mmo player, I say bring in more group content. Hell make some content that takes a maximum number of spots.

Hell make it take 2 full groups.

Theres nothing worse in an MMO than 'solo players'. Go play a single-player game if its your thing.

alphawolph · June 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

I'm leveling one character in each alliance. Once I reach VR1 on all three, I'm going to unsub and move on. If I wanted group play I'd be playing CoD.

Unless something changes in the next month or so, that'll be it for me. Sorry, Zeni, but it just doesn't look like you want to retain someone like me as a customer.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but I'm definitely starting to slow down to make the last 15 levels take as long as possible, savoring those sunsets.

This could have been written by me. It's exactly how i feel.

R1ckyDaMan · June 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

I'm leveling one character in each alliance. Once I reach VR1 on all three, I'm going to unsub and move on. If I wanted group play I'd be playing CoD.

Unless something changes in the next month or so, that'll be it for me. Sorry, Zeni, but it just doesn't look like you want to retain someone like me as a customer.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but I'm definitely starting to slow down to make the last 15 levels take as long as possible, savoring those sunsets.

Off topic but group play -- COD = LOL

Catches_the_Sun · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

I don't go to group dungeon in any map, but I still enjoy exploring the map and complete quest there. The same can not be said with Craglorn.

Thats the problem, I don't see any reason the zone cannot be designed to accommodate both play style. Making it solo-friendly does not affect your choice of playing in large groups for raid and reward.

If you think ESO can ditch solo players and somehow survive on a MMO-only format, I suggest you re-think that.

I'm not sure why you think that I am suggesting they ditch solo players. I clearly didn't say that. I'm just pointing out that, while this discussion is slamming Zenimax for providing group content in Craglorn, there have been numerous discussions slamming ESO for being a Singleplayer game. The reality is that the game offers choices. If grouping is not your thing, then you have made a choice not to participate in that content.

crislevin · June 2014

Head.hunter wrote: »

I think you guys should really consider the other posts in pve discussion, and the people who are bored with strictly solo content. I didn't even find it boring, and still think craglorn needs to be group-based.

It's an end-game zone, at the very least mobs/bosses should be tough enough that you need a group of players to take them out. You guys are looking at how fun it would be to solo a zone, but what are the consequences of forced solo-questing to the variety of gameplay options in ESO? Finishing end-game in three seconds? Phasing out players who want to solo custom soloable mobs so the group section can have even less players to group with than they currently do?

lol, "end" game zone, you probably noticed there are many empty spaces on the map of tamriel, there is no end-game zone, and craglorn surely isn't, if it is, I can't imagine what new zones will be.

Its not about force solo OR force grouping, we are asking to allow both grouping and soloing whichever players want, grouping can provide some unique quests, powerful reward more frequently. So those bored of soloing can absolutely take advantages of that. But it should not be the whole zone.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

Theres nothing worse in an MMO than 'solo players'. Go play a single-player game if its your thing.

If they do take their money away on your advice, you'll be playing an FTP with everything being made into solo content so fast it'll make your head spin so be careful what you wish for.

I basically hope there is a market for the hard core approach and ESO can go on as a sub game for years.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think that I am suggesting they ditch solo players. I clearly didn't say that. I'm just pointing out that, while this discussion is slamming Zenimax for providing group content in Craglorn, there have been numerous discussions slamming ESO for being a Singleplayer game. The reality is that the game offers choices. If grouping is not your thing, then you have made a choice not to participate in that content.

No - it's providing ONLY group content, not group content in itself. And gating it behind a level of VR difficulty that solo players are finding it hard to handle without throwing away the style of play they enjoy.

Head.hunter · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Head.hunter wrote: »

I think you guys should really consider the other posts in pve discussion, and the people who are bored with strictly solo content. I didn't even find it boring, and still think craglorn needs to be group-based.

It's an end-game zone, at the very least mobs/bosses should be tough enough that you need a group of players to take them out. You guys are looking at how fun it would be to solo a zone, but what are the consequences of forced solo-questing to the variety of gameplay options in ESO? Finishing end-game in three seconds? Phasing out players who want to solo custom soloable mobs so the group section can have even less players to group with than they currently do?

lol, "end" game zone, you probably noticed there are many empty spaces on the map of tamriel, there is no end-game zone, and craglorn surely isn't, if it is, I can't imagine what new zones will be.

Its not about force solo OR force grouping, we are asking to allow both grouping and soloing whichever players want, grouping can provide some unique quests, powerful reward more frequently. So those bored of soloing can absolutely take advantages of that. But it should not be the whole zone.

Here's the first search result that came up when I googled "zenimax on craglorn end-game":

ZeniMax Online has announced that the adventure zone, Craglorn, will be added to The Elder Scrolls Online tomorrow. Craglorn is skewed towards groups of veteran player characters and adds much-needed end-game content to the MMO.

If you can tell me how a v10-v12 zone is not endgame, because you say it isn't, but was literally designed to be, I'll fall off my chair. The current state of craglorn makes it difficult to group, not because group-based zones are too hard, but because people are flocking to grind-only sections and that's practically all there is. If they balanced that part of craglorn, it would benefit more people.

Graelock · June 2014

I agree as well. Give groups their own designated area, like The Underworld in Guildwars or follow the SWTOR group finder layout. It keeps the experiences separate, which is better for the groups players too because it feels a little more "elite" and "beneath the surface" to get to these places...depending on how you do it. Or perhaps section off (but do not block off) certain sectors of various lands for groups only. You can still pass through it solo, but you better sneak...kind of thing.

crislevin · June 2014

Head.hunter wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

Head.hunter wrote: »

I think you guys should really consider the other posts in pve discussion, and the people who are bored with strictly solo content. I didn't even find it boring, and still think craglorn needs to be group-based.

It's an end-game zone, at the very least mobs/bosses should be tough enough that you need a group of players to take them out. You guys are looking at how fun it would be to solo a zone, but what are the consequences of forced solo-questing to the variety of gameplay options in ESO? Finishing end-game in three seconds? Phasing out players who want to solo custom soloable mobs so the group section can have even less players to group with than they currently do?

lol, "end" game zone, you probably noticed there are many empty spaces on the map of tamriel, there is no end-game zone, and craglorn surely isn't, if it is, I can't imagine what new zones will be.

Its not about force solo OR force grouping, we are asking to allow both grouping and soloing whichever players want, grouping can provide some unique quests, powerful reward more frequently. So those bored of soloing can absolutely take advantages of that. But it should not be the whole zone.

Here's the first search result that came up when I googled "zenimax on craglorn end-game":

ZeniMax Online has announced that the adventure zone, Craglorn, will be added to The Elder Scrolls Online tomorrow. Craglorn is skewed towards groups of veteran player characters and adds much-needed end-game content to the MMO.

If you can tell me how a v10-v12 zone is not endgame, because you say it isn't, but was literally designed to be, I'll fall off my chair. The current state of craglorn makes it difficult to group, not because group-based zones are too hard, but because people are flocking to grind-only sections and that's practically all there is. If they balanced that part of craglorn, it would benefit more people.

I don't dispute what they said, I simply don't believe what they said regarding this being "end-game".

And I do not agree with their design idea that this zone, and god helps all future new zones, should be practically inaccessible for solo players.

Food4Thought · June 2014

Just my two cents ...

I am a heavy crafter. I got points in all crafting lines. Going this route I knew was going to gimp my character, but I wanted to see just how bad I was going to be gimping myself. So far I haven't had problems outside of the mandatory solo quests. And with these I quickly learned I just needed to gain some additional levels and practice the fights a few times to get through the boss fights.

Are the fights getting harder? Yes they are. But I go in with regen pots, soul stones, food, and well repaired armor and weapons and I learn to master the fight.

But my point is, if a guy like me can get through content solo with 2/3 of his skill points easily invested in crafting instead of combat, then the average player without those limitations shouldn't have an issue.

And before anybody asks ... no I don't run macros or add-ons. Not a single one. I may do that when I finally hit end game but not yet.

Aramil1983b14_ESO · June 2014

Yeah craglorn may as well have not come out as far as it effects me. All my friends that played gave up and quit before this.

crislevin · June 2014

Food4Thought wrote: »

Just my two cents ...

I am a heavy crafter. I got points in all crafting lines. Going this route I knew was going to gimp my character, but I wanted to see just how bad I was going to be gimping myself. So far I haven't had problems outside of the mandatory solo quests. And with these I quickly learned I just needed to gain some additional levels and practice the fights a few times to get through the boss fights.

Are the fights getting harder? Yes they are. But I go in with regen pots, soul stones, food, and well repaired armor and weapons and I learn to master the fight.

But my point is, if a guy like me can get through content solo with 2/3 of his skill points easily invested in crafting instead of combat, then the average player without those limitations shouldn't have an issue.

And before anybody asks ... no I don't run macros or add-ons. Not a single one. I may do that when I finally hit end game but not yet.

I think you underestimated the difference of normal VR zones (mobs in groups of 1 to 3) and Craglorn ( all mobs in groups of 6 with healers and archers) and many quests specifically demand you have more people play with you.

Try it out.

Xsorus · June 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

So, genius, how do those you're telling to G-T-F-O of Carglorn level VR11-VR12?

The fatal flaw in your argument that the QQers should go somewhere else is thinking Craglorn is END-GAME.

It's NOT, the level cap is VR12 and Craglorn is the ONLY zone you can viably get to VR12.

So yes, ZOS ARE FORCING you to go and group-up simply to LEVEL.

There, go it now?

Craglorn as a place for group-or-die phat-lewt hunting and e-peen waving is fine if there's some place else for soloers and smaller-than-4 groups (ie. the many couples that play MMOs) can go to reach VR12, but there isn't.

Wrong..

Wrong...

Wrong.....

Alurria · June 2014

Clearly we are arguing apples and oranges, let me if I may put it back into perspective. No one is asking to get rid of group content and ghetto epics to be given out. What some of us want is a viable way to solo to VR12. And....to be able to group in 2s if we want. Not everyone one has the time to complete group content. Forced anything is bad....remember we are asking in addition to.

JinShepard01 · June 2014

Look group content is always nice, but if you do it only group content and raise the level cap, your making a amateur mistake. NO MMO up to date has EVER done that. They have group content and solo countent.

You should never exclude one over the other, and this time they made a big mistake, again. If it was both solo and group, everyone would be happy apart from the farming of epics.

ozgod22_eso · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

I believe eso is serving two masters. Problem is it should not exclude one master from a brand new zone.

My suggestion above can solve this problem quite well. People loving mmo can team up for greater challenge and more reward, people loving solo can at least finish the zone and explore the area.

This is exactly what the problem is. Because of the history of Elder Scrolls games, people feel like they should be able to explore all the content, including all the zones, by themselves if needed. The "grouping" part is something that should be something available as an option if players want to group.

The unfortunate reality of most MMOs its that players who play solo rarely get to experience ALL the content. In WoW and many other MMOs, end game content has always been gated behind the requirement to be in a raid group to experience it. If you were a player in vanilla WoW or even Burning Crusade, the only way to see Onyxia's Lair or Molten Core or Mount Hyjal or Black Temple was to get into a 40 man raid group. The majority of casual WoW players never ever got to see the inside of those instances unless they were in a raiding guild and were prepared to invest the time those guilds needed. Some of the attunement you had to go through in WoW vanilla to get into the instances took weeks, if not months.

As time went on, Blizzard decided they wanted more casual and/or solo players (solo players are not necessarily casual, some are very hardcore but choose to play solo) to experience their end game content. First what they did was nerf the previous progression content when new xpacs came out, to let players complete them in smaller groups (or even solo if they got nerfed enough, like most WoW players can complete vanilla end game content solo now.

Then they came up with something called Looking for Raid, a matchmaking service for solo players to form a PUG raid of CURRENT end game content with other solo players. They detuned that content so that high levels of gear and coordination were not required, so that you didn't have to be a hardcore to at least see the end game and participate in that content.

And how did the majority of the player base react? They HATED it! They hated the fact that Blizzard was trying to make end game content more accessible to single players. The hardcore raiders hated the fact that "bads can kill Garrosh by facerolling now qqqqqq". The elitists hated the fact that "ppl develop bad habits by facerolling now qqqqq". LFR became a synonym for "catering to single players and casuals".

The reason I bring it up is because without LFR, most of these single players, who may be great players but lack the time to raid or get into groups, would ever see Blizzard's end game content until much, much later. End game content in an MMO is usually gated behind the need to get into raiding groups and guilds. You can level up to a certain point, but to continue progressing you need to get into a group. Otherwise you're doing dailies and pvp.

Where I think ESO has fallen between two stools is because Craglorn was released as an adventure ZONE. So the implication is that anyone should be able to explore the zone, whether they be in groups or not. The way I saw it, its more like ESO's version of end game content. That's why they said it is tuned for high vet levels. It will be very difficult to complete solo. But because it was released as a zone, people feel like it's the next zone after Coldharbour.

The other thing is the way they introduced Vet levels, which implies that players should be able to keep levelling solo all the way to Vet 12, just like they did from 1-50. You can, but it's very, very difficult and/or time consuming to do so.

It's just expectation management really.

crislevin · June 2014

very insightful, I do not object to gated group dungeons or content, but object to a whole zone being practically gated.

Comparing to Bliz, ZoS has a lot to learn, that much is clear.

WilliamTee · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

WilliamTee wrote: »

As others have said;

The problem is not that they force you to group.

It's the existence of farming based methods of levelling that draws people away from the group content.

Took me 2 hours on a saturday day time to find a group that wanted to do quests/dungeons in craglorn.

All you see is endless spam for anomalies and balameth.

I'm v12, so grind holds ZERO interest for me, but some of the best quests in the game are in Craglorn, with tougher bosses than many v10 dungeons... But finding a group to complete them all is proving troublesome.

Shoulda locked Craggy for v10+, made anomalies far less regular spawns, and given dungeons personal lock outs that only reset daily or upon completion of the entire dungeon.

I don't agree with anomalies farming, but without that, and lock craglorn to v10, it will have far fewer people in there to begin with, I am not entirely sure you will have better luck grouping in that case.

They open Craglorn because V1-V10 zones are destroying the game. If they lock it for V10+, it will be even worse for the game.

@crislevin‌ I reckon i'll find a group more quickly in a situation where there are only 10 people in a zone wherein 'rich' content like quests is the best way to level and gear up, compared to a zone where there are 1000 people, but mindless grind methods reaps big rewards for little-to-no effort.

I actually do think it's good to force social situations in MMOs at times. In groups I have managed to find I've had some fun times, with some funny guys... and surely that's the POINT of a multiplayer game else we'd all just go back to skyrim...

crislevin · June 2014

WilliamTee wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

WilliamTee wrote: »

As others have said;

The problem is not that they force you to group.

It's the existence of farming based methods of levelling that draws people away from the group content.

Took me 2 hours on a saturday day time to find a group that wanted to do quests/dungeons in craglorn.

All you see is endless spam for anomalies and balameth.

I'm v12, so grind holds ZERO interest for me, but some of the best quests in the game are in Craglorn, with tougher bosses than many v10 dungeons... But finding a group to complete them all is proving troublesome.

Shoulda locked Craggy for v10+, made anomalies far less regular spawns, and given dungeons personal lock outs that only reset daily or upon completion of the entire dungeon.

I don't agree with anomalies farming, but without that, and lock craglorn to v10, it will have far fewer people in there to begin with, I am not entirely sure you will have better luck grouping in that case.

They open Craglorn because V1-V10 zones are destroying the game. If they lock it for V10+, it will be even worse for the game.

@crislevin‌ I reckon i'll find a group more quickly in a situation where there are only 10 people in a zone wherein 'rich' content like quests is the best way to level and gear up, compared to a zone where there are 1000 people, but mindless grind methods reaps big rewards for little-to-no effort.

I actually do think it's good to force social situations in MMOs at times. In groups I have managed to find I've had some fun times, with some funny guys... and surely that's the POINT of a multiplayer game else we'd all just go back to skyrim...

I do enjoy seeing others in the game around me and occasionally finishing tough quest together.

I also like that natural grouping mechanism, in which I just "happen" to run into a few guys that need to do the quest.

But this is not the case in Craglorn, there isn't enough population to create that "natural grouping" environment. I want to also explore every inch of Tamriel, and if I pay monthly sub, and a new major zone is practically locked out for me, I have a hard time understanding it.

Sometimes ZOS may just want to stop worrying about the labels (solo, mmo, etc) and just make content available for people. Present me with a difficulty selection screen when I enter Craglorn, and state "difficult" level is for group content with more frequent, better reward.

Will_Chokabich · June 2014

I feel they should find a balance between solo and end game. Let the casual players who want to explore the content themselves or a handful of their favorite companions do it. Scale the content and rewards heavily for people who enjoy the farming and the "heroic" loot. Make teamwork and coordination a sweet reward but not a requirement. Or better yet, allow people to queue for dungeons like in WoW. I know that takes away from exploring all of Tamriel but it's better than nothing. This game is two months old and the feedback is already negative. I was quite impressed with the launch, but how everything has been handled beyond has left me and many players like myself with a sour taste in their mouth.

Anastasia · June 2014

Leesha wrote: »

Azarul wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

I'm leveling one character in each alliance. Once I reach VR1 on all three, I'm going to unsub and move on. If I wanted group play I'd be playing CoD.

Unless something changes in the next month or so, that'll be it for me. Sorry, Zeni, but it just doesn't look like you want to retain someone like me as a customer.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but I'm definitely starting to slow down to make the last 15 levels take as long as possible, savoring those sunsets.

I'm sorry but you do know this is an MMO right?

MMO doesn't mean you have to group or even be social with others if you choose not to.

Since you want to play this card, here is a little bit of education for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.

On the one hand: A "Wikipedia" definition.

On the right hand: Most generally accepted definition by those who frequent and/or have played MMO's for many years.

ozgod22_eso · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

very insightful, I do not object to gated group dungeons or content, but object to a whole zone being practically gated.

Comparing to Bliz, ZoS has a lot to learn, that much is clear.

The issue is that Craglorn is seen as different things by different people. With Blizzard, everyone knows that a current content raid requires a coordinated group of people prepared to invest some time in learning the mechanics. Hence there was no expectation from a solo player who had reached max level that they would get to see the inside of Black Temple on their own, or even with five friends - they needed to get into a 25 man raid. (Obviously now with LFR solo players can see ALL of WoW's content, they just won't experience the higher difficulties).

With Craglorn, even though Zeni say that the content is geared towards groups of veteran players, because you can earn levels in there the implication is that a solo player should be able to complete it. And they can - it's just very difficult and tedious. If Craglorn was a huge raid instance I think expectations would be different. You can see from the posts here that despite what Zenimax says, very few people think that Craglorn requires a group to participate in to get to V12. That's why you see all the "Zeni is forcing me to group to get to max level" comments.

I'm not intending to be a Blizzard cheerleader (a game most people here tend to hate), but the interesting thing is that the WoW life cycle has followed a path where it has moved from being very group specific to being more accessible to a solo player. Blizzard has created other types of end-game content like those dailies hubs they have, or achievements that solo players can complete that give them a sense of individual progression beyond being forced to get into a raid group when they don't want to. Those zones are tuned for single players - there may be some bosses that require grouping, but by and large people can explore them on their own. Some of them are dead boring, but it's clearly an effort on the developer's part to retain that "casual and/or solo player" market.

And because players are not earning levels in there, just gaining other types of rewards, there's less of the "Blizzard is denying me my right to get to max level by forcing me to group". Which is what is happening with Craglorn. Earning Vet levels is a problem for me period. Why not just say that the level cap is 60? Because earning vet levels was probably intended to be done in groups, but they threw solo players a bone by allowing them to level thru vet levels by questing through the other alliances.

TLDR: Like I said, just expectation management. It's very hard to make all things work for all people. Sometimes you have to segment, so people are clear on what content is designed for single players and what is designed for groups. If groups are needed for content, be very specific in communicating that. If content can be completed single player, then tune it accordingly. And get rid of Vet levels period. Because when you need to group to get to "max level" which people see Vet 12 as, you will *** off your single players who feel denied the opportunity to get to the same level as their grouped peers.

Azarul · June 2014

I think if the game would have launched with Craglorn as "end game" there wouldn't be as much of a cry out for solo content.

crislevin · June 2014

true to that, the fact the Craglorn is associated with leveling of V11 -12 does give people the sense that this is supposedly a place you should go after V10 zones, and it is not.

Anastasia · June 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

"For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. "

Why, no Catches_the_Sun, Zenimax isn't getting it right for those guys...you see although there is solo content, small group content, 12-man content and 24-man PvP groups --- ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL the choices aren't ALL in the SAME ZONE encompassing the same level ranges so that it is fair to ALLLLLLLLLLLL players. These players want what they want, when and where they want it and they expect it to be offered ALL in each piece of new content or level range. Otherwise its fail, not fair and not what they special-ordered apparently.

Though TESO's advertising and forward-point promo's very clearly described the general structure of this quest-centric game, the options for solo in parts of it, the encouraging of grouping up later, and of finding meaning in the style of the PvP in Tamriel, as well as noting its Veteran + and ++combat zones and description of the Adventure Zones to come, still there are apparently people who were confused. They bought TESO and paid for the subscription but took few or no steps in order to inform their purchase.

Currently they are in the game and have now lately realized it doesn't hold what they ... I don't know, guessed, or imagined it was supposed to be. So logic aside, their next step is to first act astonished, and then spend time figuring out ways to ask for whole swaths of content to be basically completely reworked against its original design. And damning the staff of Zeni when their demand isn't met fully, and most especially IMMEDIATELY.

So, pretty much your post was right on Catches_the_Sun, you just didn't have an expansive enough definition. o-0

GreySix · June 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

"For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. "

Until they stop forcing solo-only play, no they can't.