Forcing group in Craglorn makes the content inaccessible, ZoS, please consider.

crislevin · June 2014

WilliamTee wrote: »

As others have said;

The problem is not that they force you to group.

It's the existence of farming based methods of levelling that draws people away from the group content.

Took me 2 hours on a saturday day time to find a group that wanted to do quests/dungeons in craglorn.

All you see is endless spam for anomalies and balameth.

I'm v12, so grind holds ZERO interest for me, but some of the best quests in the game are in Craglorn, with tougher bosses than many v10 dungeons... But finding a group to complete them all is proving troublesome.

Shoulda locked Craggy for v10+, made anomalies far less regular spawns, and given dungeons personal lock outs that only reset daily or upon completion of the entire dungeon.

I don't agree with anomalies farming, but without that, and lock craglorn to v10, it will have far fewer people in there to begin with, I am not entirely sure you will have better luck grouping in that case.

They open Craglorn because V1-V10 zones are destroying the game. If they lock it for V10+, it will be even worse for the game.

davidhorstub17_ESO · June 2014

My issue is the 4 man quests are too easy and my dk has solo'd all of them except there are two quests that have me locked out of progressing because i need 3 other people to open stupid doors, and when i finally convince 3 friends to drop what they are doing to pop in and stand on a stupid tile well we cant open it anyway because they are on a different stage or already finished the quest...

grouping in this game is horrendous so why are they releasing zones based on groups when the phasing and grouping is so bugged to begin with, better relog AGAIN and reform since my buffs arent working because party frame says your offline even though youre standing right beside me!

crislevin · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

Rhazmuz wrote: »

Balance on single and group play..

lets see 3 whole factions to play through as solo.. 1 area to play in as group.. yea, balance spot on

Not necessarily, each map has multiple group dungeons and dark anchors, all of which are group content. Why can't they follow this model for Craglorn? They can even extend the group dungeons and make them more, bigger, more reward. But why block the whole zone?

Why tell people who don't or can't group: "I have no new content for you."

When I said that before release I got told kindly to go screw myself.

well, people here don't take criticism kindly, lol

At some point, ZOS needs to check their server side statistics and see how many people actually is visiting Craglorn, how many are in groups, how many are soloing, and adjust the things.

At this moment, this whole new, fabulous zone is just for anormalies farming, once they nerf that, this will just be a dead zone.

And if they keep locking new zones from solo players, they will lose those players eventually.

crislevin · June 2014

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

My issue is the 4 man quests are too easy and my dk has solo'd all of them except there are two quests that have me locked out of progressing because i need 3 other people to open stupid doors, and when i finally convince 3 friends to drop what they are doing to pop in and stand on a stupid tile well we cant open it anyway because they are on a different stage or already finished the quest...

grouping in this game is horrendous so why are they releasing zones based on groups when the phasing and grouping is so bugged to begin with, better relog AGAIN and reform since my buffs arent working because party frame says your offline even though youre standing right beside me!

There is no question some players are able to solo as it is, but I think most players can't, and thats my problem.

You are, of course correct, in saying that the grouping mechanism is really atrocious. If it actually were to be improved to a point that players can easily, w/o doing anything particular, group up and finish quest, that would help the situation greatly.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Yea Its difficult to get a quest done in craglorn because you cant get the people. They are too busy getting their free purples or exp if they need it. Every time I go there, its been "LFG anomaly grind" all the time. And then you are bound by the possible time constraints of the few people you do manage to find to quest with, or they don't actually want to quest but just go get their skyshards in the delves and abandon the place. I haven't bothered going back there for a while.

Then there are some chain quests where you can't help someone on parts of it if you've already completed it, creating further progress blockage.

crislevin · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Yea Its difficult to get a quest done in craglorn because you cant get the people. They are too busy getting their free purples or exp if they need it. Every time I go there, its been "LFG anomaly grind" all the time. And then you are bound by the possible time constraints of the few people you do manage to find to quest with, or they don't actually want to quest but just go get their skyshards in the delves and abandon the place. I haven't bothered going back there for a while.

Then there are some chain quests where you can't help someone on parts of it if you've already completed it, creating further progress blockage.

Sometime I wonder if they intend to limit progression and access to that zone.

If and when they nerf the anomalies farming, I am unsure how many people will be staying there, since solo is extremely difficult, and grouping is also hard to get going.

Does ZOS envision a time when the zone is filled with V10+ players and grouping becomes natural and easy, even with the current atrocious system? If so, I hope they reconsider that, cos I don't see that happening before people got discouraged enough to... you know.....

S1L3NTKiLLaH · June 2014

Group Leader: "Do you have Teamspeak?"

Me: "No, I'm only grouping because I can't do it solo."

"You have been kicked from group"

Every time I try to do a trial....makes me sad.

dbishop · June 2014

VR10 is a long haul for a lot of players to reach and I wonder what the breakdown is with the playerbase.
I took my Temp there to try and level up a little to help me through the VR levels. I feel like my gear is about 2-3 levels ahead of where I need to be which is making my solo experience better than I expected.
Once the Anoms are done and the grind moves back to the dungeons we will still see the same ones being farmed anyway.

crislevin · June 2014

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Group Leader: "Do you have Teamspeak?"

Me: "No, I'm only grouping because I can't do it solo."

"You have been kicked from group"

Every time I try to do a trial....makes me sad.

lol, yeah, with everybody shouting in the zone chat demanding this or that "type" of players to group (and evidently not successful for many), what about others?

dbishop wrote: »

VR10 is a long haul for a lot of players to reach and I wonder what the breakdown is with the playerbase.

Im sure they have statistics on this, would be good if they can share them.

Sallakat · June 2014

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Group Leader: "Do you have Teamspeak?"

Me: "No, I'm only grouping because I can't do it solo."

"You have been kicked from group"

Every time I try to do a trial....makes me sad.

Not really regarding the whole topic here, but I wouldn't want a random player from zone chat joining my raid team without ability to even listen on Teamspeak/Mumble/Vent/etc.
It's crucial part of it, and having one installed on your computer just means that you actually bothered to prepare yourself for the encounter.

Taking "PUGs" into raids is always a risk of a all night wipefest, but having them without voice comms is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Just saying.

Hilgara · June 2014

The problem is that its very difficult to keep a group together. People are leaving the game hand over first. Some have rerolled because they think their class isn't needed. Keeping a core raiding team together is almost impossible even a 4 man team is hard to keep together for any length of time.

S1L3NTKiLLaH · June 2014

Sallakat wrote: »

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Group Leader: "Do you have Teamspeak?"

Me: "No, I'm only grouping because I can't do it solo."

"You have been kicked from group"

Every time I try to do a trial....makes me sad.

Not really regarding the whole topic here, but I wouldn't want a random player from zone chat joining my raid team without ability to even listen on Teamspeak/Mumble/Vent/etc.
It's crucial part of it, and having one installed on your computer just means that you actually bothered to prepare yourself for the encounter.

Taking "PUGs" into raids is always a risk of a all night wipefest, but having them without voice comms is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Just saying.

Forcing people to join a teamspeak is ridiculous. Personally I don't care for it as there is always some form of abuse taking place on it. Plus being older I tend to not want to deal with it at all. I just want to play the game by myself, unless I am in PvP. Fitting that the first content zone further proves this game was not meant to be played alone. The next content zone will feature 32 man zones with 3 bosses fighting simultaneously with 200k hp a piece.

crislevin · June 2014

Sallakat wrote: »

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Group Leader: "Do you have Teamspeak?"

Me: "No, I'm only grouping because I can't do it solo."

"You have been kicked from group"

Every time I try to do a trial....makes me sad.

Not really regarding the whole topic here, but I wouldn't want a random player from zone chat joining my raid team without ability to even listen on Teamspeak/Mumble/Vent/etc.
It's crucial part of it, and having one installed on your computer just means that you actually bothered to prepare yourself for the encounter.

Taking "PUGs" into raids is always a risk of a all night wipefest, but having them without voice comms is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Just saying.

I can see that, I saw trial videos and it needs massive cooperation, I just don't think a whole zone should be gear towards that, if not outright require that.

And as somebody mentioned multiple times, even for a skilled team, this type of grouping mechanism is difficult to maintain. Which begs the question: why design a content, a brand new zone, that most people can't explore, enjoy, complete?

Catches_the_Sun · June 2014

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

S1L3NTKiLLaH · June 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

I understand where you are coming from, but clearly you understand the point we are making right? Some of us want to play solo. Furthermore, some of us want to play ALL content that we payed for, and not be forced into a group with people who are often bossy, annoying, and demanding. I think as a customer and subscriber I have a right to play all of the game content without exposing myself to potential abuse.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

No, but we've still paid for it. New content is both for and gated by group play. And that is fine provided that market is big enough and loyal enough to deliver more profits than the spreadsheet guys think they can get by going FTP.

I hope it is but fear that discarding part of your customer base isn't a wise long term decision.

But the game is what it is and isn't going to change.

Fingers crossed it works out.

Sallakat · June 2014

In all MMOs there are content that can be accessed with a group only (like raids), it just happens that ESO decided to dedicate a whole zone for it. If you're upset about not being able to explore there solo, think of Crag just as one huge raid or something

crislevin · June 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

I don't go to group dungeon in any map, but I still enjoy exploring the map and complete quest there. The same can not be said with Craglorn.

Thats the problem, I don't see any reason the zone cannot be designed to accommodate both play style. Making it solo-friendly does not affect your choice of playing in large groups for raid and reward.

If you think ESO can ditch solo players and somehow survive on a MMO-only format, I suggest you re-think that.

Azarul · June 2014

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

I understand where you are coming from, but clearly you understand the point we are making right? Some of us want to play solo. Furthermore, some of us want to play ALL content that we payed for, and not be forced into a group with people who are often bossy, annoying, and demanding. I think as a customer and subscriber I have a right to play all of the game content without exposing myself to potential abuse.

I agree you have the right to play without being harassed by group members, but I don't believe because your a paying customer you deserve the right to anything as far as game development goes. Its their game they make the content how they see fit. If you don't like it you can always stop paying. I understand you want to solo this content, however I do not think you "deserve" it because your a paying customer.

crislevin · June 2014

Sallakat wrote: »

In all MMOs there are content that can be accessed with a group only (like raids), it just happens that ESO decided to dedicate a whole zone for it. If you're upset about not being able to explore there solo, think of Crag just as one huge raid or something

that sure is how I feel about it. If its only craglorn, it will be fine in the long run, even though it is unfortunately for TES loyal fans who dreamed of exploring every inch of Tamriel.

If they keep locking out content for solo players, then a lot of people will be paying subs for nothing after some point in their progression in the game. That can't be a good business decision.

S1L3NTKiLLaH · June 2014

Azarul wrote: »

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

I understand where you are coming from, but clearly you understand the point we are making right? Some of us want to play solo. Furthermore, some of us want to play ALL content that we payed for, and not be forced into a group with people who are often bossy, annoying, and demanding. I think as a customer and subscriber I have a right to play all of the game content without exposing myself to potential abuse.

I agree you have the right to play without being harassed by group members, but I don't believe because your a paying customer you deserve the right to anything as far as game development goes. Its their game they make the content how they see fit. If you don't like it you can always stop paying. I understand you want to solo this content, however I do not think you "deserve" it because your a paying customer.

"VETERAN CONTENT IN ESO

One of the core philosophies of The Elder Scrolls Online is to allow you to play the way you want. You’ve probably heard us say it or experienced it for yourself: equip any weapon, wear any armor, choose from a myriad of skills, pick your role, make choices in quests, ignore certain quests and just explore, etc. The idea is that these choices tie you more to your character, and respect that you might want to play differently from one day to the next. Many times, I’ve heard people discuss how they like to solo, others like to “raid,” and another group likes to PvP, so we know gamers never fit into neat categories."

Source: http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/news/post/2014/03/26/esos-veteran-content

"play the way you want"

You seem to be one of those people who focus on what you assume rather than what was actually said.

Taiminator · June 2014

I think one of Zeni's biggest mistakes was catering to the solo croud too much. It's called MMO for a reason. What you guys are asking for would be a MSORPG, MassivelySingleplayerOnlineRPG. Honestly, they should have made all content like Craglorn from the get go, forcing players to bond and group up in order to advance. That would have fostered a much greater sense of community. The things are right now players get way too used to solo play on the way from lvl 1 to Vr10 and are suddenly shocked when they need a group to do the quests.

Related to this issue is also the 5 guild system with no AH. It creates an impersonal atmosphere where everyone's out for themselves. 2 guilds would have been enough if there was an auction house. I find being forced to use trade guilds and the zone chat unpleasant and would rather just put my stuff up for auction while being able to concentrate on actually playing the game and doing group content instead.

crislevin · June 2014

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Azarul wrote: »

S1L3NTKiLLaH wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

For the love of the Hist, Zenimax just can't get it right with you guys, can they? There is solo content, small group content, 12-man content & 24-man PvP groups. They give you options. If small group content is not your thing, then Craglorn is not for you. Nobody is forcing you to go.

mmo-or-mso/p1

why-did-zenimax-even-bother-making-an-mmo

eso-trying-to-be-a-solo-rpg-in-an-mmo-format-is-it-enough

so-this-is-a-single-player-mmo

I understand where you are coming from, but clearly you understand the point we are making right? Some of us want to play solo. Furthermore, some of us want to play ALL content that we payed for, and not be forced into a group with people who are often bossy, annoying, and demanding. I think as a customer and subscriber I have a right to play all of the game content without exposing myself to potential abuse.

I agree you have the right to play without being harassed by group members, but I don't believe because your a paying customer you deserve the right to anything as far as game development goes. Its their game they make the content how they see fit. If you don't like it you can always stop paying. I understand you want to solo this content, however I do not think you "deserve" it because your a paying customer.

"VETERAN CONTENT IN ESO

One of the core philosophies of The Elder Scrolls Online is to allow you to play the way you want. You’ve probably heard us say it or experienced it for yourself: equip any weapon, wear any armor, choose from a myriad of skills, pick your role, make choices in quests, ignore certain quests and just explore, etc. The idea is that these choices tie you more to your character, and respect that you might want to play differently from one day to the next. Many times, I’ve heard people discuss how they like to solo, others like to “raid,” and another group likes to PvP, so we know gamers never fit into neat categories."

Source: http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/news/post/2014/03/26/esos-veteran-content

"play the way you want"

bold for two things many, if not most of us, can't do in Craglorn.

elblobbob14_ESO · June 2014

Gisgo wrote: »

"death questing"

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is "death questing"?

crislevin · June 2014

Taiminator wrote: »

I think one of Zeni's biggest mistakes was catering to the solo croud too much. It's called MMO for a reason. What you guys are asking for would be a MSORPG, MassivelySingleplayerOnlineRPG. Honestly, they should have made all content like Craglorn from the get go, forcing players to bond and group up in order to advance. That would have fostered a much greater sense of community.

thats the question people asked from day 1 (or before that), is it a TES or MMO?

I have a feeling that if your suggestion were followed, the game would be dead by now. You saw how inexperienced, awkward, rough the MMO part of the game is, and without solo content from get go, do you really expect MMO to sustain this game?

plus, nobody in this discussion asking for removing mmo part of the craglorn, we are only asking for solo content.

S1L3NTKiLLaH · June 2014

elblobbob14_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

"death questing"

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is "death questing"?

Playing solo + OP Vet Mobs = Death Questing

Taiminator · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Taiminator wrote: »

I think one of Zeni's biggest mistakes was catering to the solo croud too much. It's called MMO for a reason. What you guys are asking for would be a MSORPG, MassivelySingleplayerOnlineRPG. Honestly, they should have made all content like Craglorn from the get go, forcing players to bond and group up in order to advance. That would have fostered a much greater sense of community.

thats the question people asked from day 1 (or before that), is it a TES or MMO?

I have a feeling that if your suggestion were followed, the game would be dead by now. You saw how inexperienced, awkward, rough the MMO part of the game is, and without solo content from get go, do you really expect MMO to sustain this game?

plus, nobody in this discussion asking for removing mmo part of the craglorn, we are only asking for solo content.

Of course the ship has sailed. Im speaking hypothetically. If they would have focused a lot more on MMO content from the beginning, I feel I would've enjoyed this game a lot more. I just don't see the point in paying a subscription for a solo game. I can play dark souls or whatever if I wanted a solo game. Don't advertize it as MMO when the game is clearly catered to the solo crowd with a tiny sprinkling of coop dungeons.

Electus · June 2014

I agree 120%

GreySix · June 2014

Taiminator wrote: »

Don't advertize it as MMO when the game is clearly catered to the solo crowd with a tiny sprinkling of coop dungeons.

Concur.

This MMO launching with all main story instances as solo-only was preposterous.

S1L3NTKiLLaH · June 2014

GreySix wrote: »

Taiminator wrote: »

Don't advertize it as MMO when the game is clearly catered to the solo crowd with a tiny sprinkling of coop dungeons.

Concur.

This MMO launching with all main story instances as solo-only was preposterous.

Yeah, people are not understanding how hard it is for some builds to play solo. But hey its not like they said to us "play the way you want" or anything.