If ESO is doing bad.... could this be why?

Attorneyatlawl · June 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

mndfreeze wrote: »

The questing in other factions was just a way to addres people wanting to do that content but not have to roll an alt to do it, which I'm grateful for. I hate alts.

To me that doesn't make much sense. Life is about making choices and living with that choice. In Skyrim if you wanted to play as both Imperial and Stormcloak you would have to have two characters.

It would be a more apt example if playing as a stormcloak would make you unable to enter one half of skyrim unless you restart the game as an imperial in which case you would be locked out of the stormcloak half.

In case of ESO it would be even worse, as you would be locked out of 2/3 of the game(not counting cyrodiil).

DAoC had it that way. Guess what the complaints were back then?

"Wait, i bought the WHOLE game, and now you're telling me i won't see 2/3 of it unless i GRIND to level 50 twice more?!?"

Lol, no one complained of that back then. We were glad for it and enjoyed the faction pride and rvr that resulted. No one cared at all about needing an alt if you wanted to see other factions and their areas, it was a given norm that was a desired feature even.

Attorneyatlawl · June 2014

Also floored that the IMMERSION whiners are continuing to whine.... Wait, I guess that's all they do period. They got everything they begged and pleaded embarrassingly for, all the mmo features, user interface, even basics like zooming your camera out or seeing other people's names as options, out, they made the game ridiculously easy in veteran rank pve, etc and you now stomp your feet because you never really really did know what you wanted. Good job ruining a promising mmo and pvp experience with your inane demands that no one can ever meet and are ever changing. Maybe they will recover once you people move on as you always were going to. Maybe no one will even be around

.

Alphashado · June 2014

There are several reasons why the numbers are dwindling. But the biggest factor is VR content. And it's not even close. A gigantic % of players feel like it's a grind. Another gigantic % of players feel like repeating the other two factions in a generic time kill. A gigantic % of players are feeling forced to give up their favorite builds in exchange for a staff because stamina is garbage atm. And lastly, a gigantic % of players find VR content to be ridiculously difficult.

There is a fair % of people that enjoy it just the way it is. And those are the players that will be here for a long time. Everyone else that falls into the above 4 catagories are leaving.

kitsinni · June 2014

The reaon it is going bad is

1) They screwed themselves with having so many ways to play that you can never balance it all.
2) Making PvP and PvE use the same skills and gear make it a game of never ending nerfs
3) Released way to early with way to many bugs and let way to few people test
4) 5 Guilds makes it so that you feel like you have no connection to your guild
5) Released in a time where MMOs are almost always a flop and will always be compared to WoW and if you try to do anything different you are a failure. This is a day and age where people try MMOs for a month expecting to be dissapointed.
No real end game content for there be a reason to put up with the never ending feeling of always grinding towards nothing

Bromburak · June 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one that doesn't want to quest through the other factions? I was hoping for a DAOC system. The replay value for that game was high for me. Going to a new faction was like entering a whole entire different game but now I'm forced to play through the content killing that mystery of the other faction.

The replay value of DAOC was for 90% of players as follows:

Make a second account for a buff bot and then level fast all the way up to 50, farm some gear for your final temp and then have fun in RvR for a very long time.

As soon everyone was raiding keeps or having a blast in Shadow lab , in stealth groups or what ever they prefer in PvP, no one was really thinking about PvE or how they leveled to 50. That was the reality in DAOC!

And especially Cyrodiil and public dungeons have the most important similarities to DAOC.

Darrett · June 2014

VRs are just boring. 50 levels of linear questing is plenty. And why are there VR Skeevers?

Once you defeat Molag Bal, you shouldn't be getting destroyed by Wasps that are inexplicably VR5. There should be epic quests, powerful interesting enemies, exploration, and various dungeons for different group sizes.

Craglorn grinding would be fine if they made more low VR content for duos or single groups. People seem to just not want more questing at the VR levels.

Bromburak · June 2014

Darrett wrote: »

Craglorn grinding would be fine if they made more low VR content for duos or single groups. People seem to just not want more questing at the VR levels.

Well, then don't do quests ...

Arreyanne · June 2014

mndfreeze wrote: »

This is why I said people need to change the way they are seeing this. Normally an MMO just wouldn't let you do it. The other factions content is THERE, but not for you, its for the players on the other faction. You are only playing your factions story and thats it. So when you finish that and run out of content? oh well, roll an alt.

This is just them realizing that is pretty stupid when they have 3 factions worth of good storytelling and questing in the game, might as well let ALL players visit it if they want, but not everyone wants to roll an alt to do it. So they added in some little hooks so you can keep using your character. Its a bonus. The other option would be it just wouldnt exist, like every other mmo that comes out.

Also since someone seemed to think you are doing the same quest over, you are not. The main quest is not there, nor is the mage guild and fighters guild quest lines, because those are exactly the same for all factions it would be stupid to have them in to be repeated.

Anyway, this argument is as silly as someone saying 'gee I have to reroll if I want to see the horde questlines in wow? thats lame! it doesn't make sense!' Be happy the devs spent the time to give you a way to enjoy all the content they wrote without having to reroll every time, if you are stuck on the idea that you just cant because its against your faction or whatever, then don't, but then you are making the choice not to do the other factions content and you can't complain there isnt any end game since it will just take time for it to appear.

And the alternative method is?

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO · June 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

It is highly unlikely the company is going to change a major, long-time development feature at this point.

Doomed.

This game needs new suits. And a major face lift.

They really dug themselves into a hole with some of their design decisions. One of their biggest mistakes was underestimating the intelligence of their player base. Or gamers as a whole.

Let's just unload a truckload of rubbish on everyone's doorstep. If their dumb enough, they'll stick around and pay us a monthly fee to sort through it all.

Drasn · June 2014

Tannakaobi wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

The worst is part of the Mage Guild line:
I gave Valaste to Uncle Sheo at the end of the Mage Guild quests, only to have her appear in the Mages Guilds of other factions.

YOU DID WHAT? Valaste is the only Altmer I have ever liked in pretty much every TES game.

But anyway, as the 'story' goes, you are technically in the past. In theory you have not yet done the mage guild quest line when you are in the VR zones. So realistically you should be doing them again.

Just another reason why VR sucks balls and is LAZY development.

Also, how did you do the spoiler hide thing?

@Tannakaobi
Sorry, sleep kept me from replying, I actually have done the Mage guild quest with both options, the one I mentioned earlier was just the outcome that made no sense to me once in Vet Content.

For the spoiler tag thing, the format button(looks like a backwards P) on the toolbar has a dropdown and you can select spoiler. Alternatively, you can just type [sp*iler][/sp*iler] replacing the * with an o. Spoiler text goes in between of course.

Anilahation · June 2014

My friends quit at VR3

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

No one is forcing you to do the other factions zones, This was added at the end of the game to give PVE more content and allow you to play that alliance without having to reroll a character. You dont like doing their zone then dont. You can go to Cyrodiil and PVE or PVP as that was the origional only endgame content. you can also just go to Craglorn and level there.

So all those skyshards that are only available by grinding the VR quests, they will just be mailed to us, right? Because that's what would have to happen for your post to make any sort of sense.

Maximis_ESO · June 2014

@Kewljag_66_ESO‌
They are forcing you to. Everything is extremely slow leveling through VR besides doing the other 2 factions lands quests. So by making it inconvenient and damn near impossible to level through VR by PVP and doing VR dungeons with friends. It ridiculous and doesn't seem like it was well thought out.

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

You don't *have* to do anything.

It's a game.

Maximis_ESO · June 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

You don't *have* to do anything.

It's a game.

You're right but they sure make it hard as hell to level up any other way besides doing the other alliances.

dcincali · June 2014

Launch endgame should have stopped at vr1, then a month later released a content expansion to vr5, then a month or so later another content to vr10, then crag to vr12 instead of this HUGE grind fest to vr12 in a month of launch... BORING...

Phantorang · June 2014

Tannakaobi wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

The worst is part of the Mage Guild line:
I gave Valaste to Uncle Sheo at the end of the Mage Guild quests, only to have her appear in the Mages Guilds of other factions.

YOU DID WHAT? Valaste is the only Altmer I have ever liked in pretty much every TES game.

But anyway, as the 'story' goes, you are technically in the past. In theory you have not yet done the mage guild quest line when you are in the VR zones. So realistically you should be doing them again.

Just another reason why VR sucks balls and is LAZY development.

Also, how did you do the spoiler hide thing?

Its not lazy, I think its GREAT that I dont have to roll a char in each alliance to get through the content.

You dont have to do them, its a slow way to level vr levels anyways. Just do the Cadwell quests, save the quests for an alt char instead.

jazon1972_ESO · June 2014

i agree the Veteran Ranks are terrible and feel like an after thought on there behalf..no skill points earned from leveling, weapons feel way under powered for the VR enemy's,most seem to just grinding to vr12 and start new avi's...the game as a whole is pretty good bugs and balancing isues aside,lets just hope they are able to get enough new content and fixs to keep the population up its already getting hard to find people to get groups together to do group content in a lot of areas.

Morticielle · June 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Which is precisely why some of us think this whole thing is lazy, hand-waving bullcrap. We have no interest whatsoever in fighting for another faction and against our own.

Yup, I agree. First you had to decide what faction you want to play. Many players used the beta to explore a bit of all three faction and then chose one which they could identify themselves with best. Then they played 50 levels in that faction, often played PvP and became a part of that faction. But then they have to play for the other factions which is not explained in a convincing way.

I have a big problem with that. At VR3 I stopped leveling because I didn't like to play in the other realms. Now I level up slowly by playing PvP, but even though veteran EP was raised it goes slow. So for me it's difficult to close the gap to all those VR12s running around and I guess that there will be VR13/14 before I reach VR12.

Anastasia wrote: »

This feature - that after 50 a player would be involved in questing lines which put them squarely into two of the other factions territory - it was so clearly promo'd, publicized and stated as a fact of the Veteran + content, it is literally not possible a person could not have been informed about this feature before purchasing or subbing.

That might be, but it is still a dumb idea combined with the fact that there is no compelling storyline to explain why one has to fight for the other two realms. And even if you can't understand why players don't like this, it is still a fact and it will bring consequences to this game, because players who see no acceptable way to level up further will leave the game. And TESO is not doing so well concerning player numbers.

Edit: Typos

serenity_painted · June 2014

The game is doing poorly beacuse they have no idea what they are doing.

The game is pretty fun but it's a multplayer game with single player quests that are there to appeal to single player fans without understanding what most fans of the single player games found appealing about them.

TES is a beloved sandbox franchise that's all about exploration and goes out if it's way to distract you with ruins,caves and what not.This is a HUGE part of the game, here it's just an afterthought.
People saw the TES name and expected Skyrim Online.
What they got was a singleplayer RPG that's all about grinding quests by yourself where other people just exist to get in the way unless it's content specifically designed for groups like dungeons.

Also some design descisions make no *** sense, you need stammina for dodging(that dosen't even *** work half the time) sprinting, sneaking, blocking and physical damage abilites while magicka is only used for casting magic.
Do stam skills cost less? Nope! Do you have a larger resource pool? Nah Does it fill up faster? NEIN! All the while magica skills do more damage.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind this.

Paske · June 2014

I have been VR2 for a while now.

Just no will to play quests for other faction.
I dont care about the other faction.
I want to kill the other faction.

So now Im just playing a alt, main to Cyro, then some BF4, LOL, EVE ... Then try to come and play a quest on main just to try and get closer to f*****g VR12, but its so damn grindingly boring.

Still here, still ( generaly ) playing, but the idea of having to finish all quests of enemy faction only to be greeted with ANOTHER slew of mindless quests from third faction.

It just kills the will to play.

Still waiting for improvement, but patience is wearing thin.

ArRashid · June 2014

I don't mind doing the other factions... at least on first character (it's REALLY boring to do ALL quests in the whole game on every character, especially since there are no alternate routes to take - unlike other MMORPGs).

What I hate about it is VR difficulty - it just feels like trying to solo dungeons. I gave up on my NB because killing a pack of 3 mobs took forever and you had to repeat it thousands of times..
Now my pyromancer after a month and a half of nerfing all abilities across boards is getting ripped apart by mobs, and I now have to use second bar entirely for buffs to survive encounters (aka Igneous Weapons, Razor Armor, ...) and I STILL almost die.
Even with armor and resistances overcharged by more than 100 over the soft caps and blocking constantly, and until I manage to beat 3 mobs with 2500-3500 HP (or a single elite with 7k+ HP), I'm at zero stamina and 10% HP left.

Also, exping abilities in VR is DANGEROUS and feels even slower than in normal levels. I don't have any place on my primary bar for leveling an ability, so I'm using second bar for leveling additional weapon and 2-3 abilities (rest are buffs I need to survive with primary bar). Since I'm exping dual wield now, I no longer have access to heals from resto staff to at least reduce the downtime while I wait for my HP to regenerate.

I have (on VR3) about 2100 magicka and I pump everything else into HP. I'm still dying quite often if I manage to pull a pack I don't intend to (Greenshade seems to have MANY bugged spawns, when you pull a pack and 2 more packs 30m away run for you).

Now WHY the heck do VR mobs have 2-3x more HP and 3-4x more damage than player? They just use their abilities less frequently (some,... some chain cast like stupid - especially archers that bombard you for 200-350 dmg through block every second and you can't do anything to counter that, unless you have stone fist on your bar to stun them briefly)

Also, majority of abilities cannot be bashed anymore after 1.1.2, whether intentionally or not. That makes some enemies REALLY dangerous, as before bashing them stunned them and put them off balance. Now it does NOTHING except about 30 dmg and depleting your stamina by a lot. That's especially painful when fighting Harvesters that will NUKE you with their trident attack even if you bash it.

Conclusion: VR is unreasonably hard to solo. Mobs have enough AI to be dangerous without having 3-4 times deadlier abilities
(take Volley for example, cast by a player on VR3, it deals about 250 dmg over 3 sec on a single target. Now cast by a mob, it deals 1000(!) damage over the same time... that's nuts, especially when non-tank player has about 1400-1600 HP at that level)

c1r3gamerb16_ESO · June 2014

It appears to me, and I'm not even at VR stage, that Zenimax has got itself into a quandary trying to please both solo and group players. On the one hand parts of ESO feel like an SP game then you turn a corner and find you need a group to complete next area but the quests are still designed for solo working i.e. on the quests where you have to decide the outcome it's whoever hits their choice first and the game auto completes for rest of the group.

I'm sure I read in the early days that ESO was designed to allow players the option to either play solo throughout the land or group with friends. Perhaps I misread something because as well as the negative feedback on the VR content the game seemed to be completely messed up with quests even being auto completed by strangers or you get phased out from your group doing the same quest.

At the moment my friends and I are just taking our time playing ESO and trying to enjoy the quest lines and crafting. We have no interest in joining a trading guild and support each other (as friendship guilds do) but I have a feeling when we reach level 50 (probably in a week or two) we may reconsider whether we want to renew for another 3 months and attempt VR or just pack it in.

waylander48 · June 2014

the road ahead post theres a little bit in there that says they are going to do something to prepare people for the difficulty of VR levels.

if that means making the 1-50 harder how many casuals will be left ?

you already get the spike in difficulty in the main story line castle of the worm level 20 on a NB anyone I tried it at level 23 and wanted to throw my pc out the window.

and yes I should really L2P

so I reroll to Templar I like the idea of having some sort of battle cleric in plate with 1H and shield but no you have to be a battle cleric/mage in a dress waving a stick.

really this game is so screwed and I do like the world and the way things are animated and most of the quests.

Tannakaobi · June 2014

Here is my opinion: They should let players do the other factions content with the 'forced' title of traitor. Also each player that decides to do so should no longer be allowed in their old faction, because they are traitorous scum.

Hows that?

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

For the spoiler tag thing, the format button(looks like a backwards P) on the toolbar has a dropdown and you can select spoiler. Alternatively, you can just type [sp*iler][/sp*iler] replacing the * with an o. Spoiler text goes in between of course.

I see, thanks for your reply. It's most appropriated.

Queen Ayrenn is a w****!

Edit: Yep, that worked, sweet.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Also floored that the IMMERSION whiners are continuing to whine.... Wait, I guess that's all they do period. They got everything they begged and pleaded embarrassingly for, all the mmo features, user interface, even basics like zooming your camera out or seeing other people's names as options, out, they made the game ridiculously easy in veteran rank pve, etc and you now stomp your feet because you never really really did know what you wanted. Good job ruining a promising mmo and pvp experience with your inane demands that no one can ever meet and are ever changing. Maybe they will recover once you people move on as you always were going to. Maybe no one will even be around .

What a ludicrous thing to say, I asked for none of those things to be removed and there is nothing wrong with the UI anyway. That is not why 'most' quitters are leaving anyway. If anything is the 'I want to do EVERYTHING on one toon' people that are insuring people leave. MMO's are supposed to be MASSIVE. How could you possibly do everything on one toon? Except of course if they dilute it.

GreySix · June 2014

What the heck is a toon?

Tannakaobi · June 2014

Deleted, sorry it was a dupe!

TheBucket · June 2014

Love how the devs get blamed for giving the people what they want. The people wanted to explore the whole game.

Tannakaobi · June 2014

waylander48 wrote: »

the road ahead post theres a little bit in there that says they are going to do something to prepare people for the difficulty of VR levels.

Everyone gets a free staff, light armor and free skill change! Your good to go!

@waylander48 Out of interest, do you take your name from David Gemmell?

waylander48 · June 2014

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

waylander48 wrote: »

the road ahead post theres a little bit in there that says they are going to do something to prepare people for the difficulty of VR levels.

Everyone gets a free staff, light armor and free skill change! Your good to go!

@waylander48 Out of interest, do you take your name from David Gemmell?

yeah mate love gemmell books only author that can make be shed a tear when a big ugly lout with a heart as big as a mountain dies.