If ESO is doing bad.... could this be why?

Maximis_ESO

So after playing the game since launch I have had tons of fun. I have one major issue though.

Why are we, the players, who are supposed to play the game how we want, build our characters etc.... being FORCED to quest through other factions, who we have no interest in in order to effectively reach the VR10+ content. Almost everyone of my friends have lefts this game after hitting VR1 in many days played..... most of them are around 5+ days played and they realized that they have to do that 2 more times and it gets progressively more difficult?

Play with a friend you say!? Often times it is difficult to coordinate a time to meet up and play in the VR zones together and on top of that you are almost never on the same quests and side quests are not worth doing together because the XP is so terrible.

Why was this system implemented so terribly? My thoughts coming in were that we would do our factions, have options to PVP, or go to other factions, or grind dungeons for XP and earn Veteran Ranks through that but as it is now our only option is to grind out the other 2 factions which is such a terrible idea, on top of killing all faction pride I had for the Ebonheart Pact. Right now I'm starting to rep DC and this just destroyed the factions IMO and Cyrodil doesn't seem connected to the outside world at all now.

I thought about grinding out the anomalies in Craglorn on my main but decided to try and entice some friend to play by starting a new character..... now that those are likely to get a nerf bat in the next maintenance update.... I'm straight up F'ed.

Am I the only one that doesn't want to quest through the other factions? I was hoping for a DAOC system. The replay value for that game was high for me. Going to a new faction was like entering a whole entire different game but now I'm forced to play through the content killing that mystery of the other faction.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Going to a new faction was like entering a whole entire different game but now I'm forced to play through the content killing that mystery of the other faction.

I don't think you understand how the questing system works in the VR zones. The only quests you don't have access to are those for the Guilds and Main Story you already completed.

In all other respects any VR zone is just the same pre-VR.

For example, even though I'm from EP, Daggerfall now loves me because I saved their king.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

It feels stupid to help the other factions. It has been a very hotly complained matter. I feel it is also very very wrong. For a game that supposedly puts I-M-M-E-R-S-I-O-N above all else, current VR experience is a pathetically dumb move.

Might as well have sports cars and giant robots at this point. It wont make any difference 'immersion'-wise anyways

STAND BY FOR TITANFALL peep peep peep BOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM

steveb16_ESO46

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

In all other respects any VR zone is just the same pre-VR.

For example, even though I'm from EP, Daggerfall now loves me because I saved their king.

Which is precisely why some of us think this whole thing is lazy, hand-waving bullcrap. We have no interest whatsoever in fighting for another faction and against our own.

all this - 'what if you washed up on another shore?' I'd have still been a loyal Daggerfall Covenant Breton, not a traitor, thank you very much.

htoncic

It's smoke and mirrors. Here, play thru this recycled content for a while so you don't realize there is nothing to do in endgame.

mndfreeze

The questing in other factions was just a way to addres people wanting to do that content but not have to roll an alt to do it, which I'm grateful for. I hate alts. I dont want to start again from the bottom. Of course the most ideal situation would be to somehow have written the content so it made more sense story wise to your character that just defeated molag balsaq and all that, but if you think about the amount of content that was created and written for each faction, adding in all the extra content to change it around so it fit better for your character would be such a massive undertaking the game wouldn't h ave come out for another year. People need to stop thinking of it like its a continuation of the story and look at it more from the perspective that most mmo games dont let you see the other factions content at all, period, unless you roll an alt on that faction. So look at it from that angle except that ZOS said, well, instead of making them roll another character, one for each faction, why dont we just let them port their character over and we'll increase the difficulty. Its more like bonus content, not primary content.

If the immersion thing is such a deal breaker, just go grind vr1 to 12 on anomolies like people are doing and get your vr12 in 2 days, then roll an alt for that other faction "so the story makes sense"

But then you will just complain you dont want to start at level 1, or something else about why its not perfect. Me, personally, I'm happy ZOS made the choice to let me take my character over there and have 2 more alliances of content and story to enjoy. I can just pretend im part of their faction now, just like making an alt would be.

c1r3gamerb16_ESO

I'm not looking forward to Vet content if what you say is true. I was trying to get immersed in the storyline on my Bosmer until I realised when I started another character in a different faction that it is very similar and having to go through the main storyline again and again is, quite frankly, boring.

I remember during the beta weekends trying out different characters/factions and realising that you were meeting the same NPCs e.g. Merrick and Aelif. This clouded the differences between factions and we assumed it was Zenimax being lazy and things would improve once the game was released.

In other MMO's I have loved taking a character up to top level and then restarting another character in another faction zone because their storylines were entirely different in keeping with their faction and therefore the game was re-playable.

At the moment I'm levelling in two faction areas but when I have to follow the storyline/guild quests I find myself just doing click, click, click to get through the NPC chat in order to finish as fast as I can. So less than 3 months into the game I'm already wondering if ESO has enough content to hold my interest.

Kronosphere

i def hear ya about loylty. im also EP, and i only get through by roleplaying im infiltrating them by making every major quest "decision" to hinder the countires respective military might/defence =P

but i am pretty certain the entire vr content is going to change for the better, they have acknowledged it was a bad idea with other zones and progression etc the question is how long can u wait for it?

davidetombab16_ESO

eso doing bad because is a beta , that s all.

Drasn

c1r3gamerb16_ESO wrote: »

I remember during the beta weekends trying out different characters/factions and realising that you were meeting the same NPCs e.g. Merrick and Aelif. This clouded the differences between factions and we assumed it was Zenimax being lazy and things would improve once the game was released.

The worst is part of the Mage Guild line:

I gave Valaste to Uncle Sheo at the end of the Mage Guild quests, only to have her appear in the Mages Guilds of other factions.

Tannakaobi

mndfreeze wrote: »

The questing in other factions was just a way to addres people wanting to do that content but not have to roll an alt to do it, which I'm grateful for. I hate alts.

To me that doesn't make much sense. Life is about making choices and living with that choice. In Skyrim if you wanted to play as both Imperial and Stormcloak you would have to have two characters.

The number of people that want to play every factions quests with one character will be far out numberd by the people that think it silly.

At the end of the day it is Lore breaking. For a game that prides it's self on it's own Lore it is pathetic and a real kick in the balls to true TES fans.

This whole 'Cadwells' reward thing is stupid and childish. It comes across as lazy developing and although I really enjoy ESO this one thing should be removed imo.

Thunderchief

I think it would have been good if you had a choice. run through the storyline of the other faction as it is OR run through the same lands but as an agent for your faction. Missions and quests would involve undermining the other rulers checking in on fellow agents and helping them with their missions. Occasionally you might do normal quests where you help a trader recover his wares or save a farmstead from some evil creature (you're not inhuman afterall).

Adding new quests to the world by utilising existing graphics models and textures would not be very difficult and wouldn't take very long.

This is something I would gladly play.

Sharee

Tannakaobi wrote: »

mndfreeze wrote: »

The questing in other factions was just a way to addres people wanting to do that content but not have to roll an alt to do it, which I'm grateful for. I hate alts.

To me that doesn't make much sense. Life is about making choices and living with that choice. In Skyrim if you wanted to play as both Imperial and Stormcloak you would have to have two characters.

It would be a more apt example if playing as a stormcloak would make you unable to enter one half of skyrim unless you restart the game as an imperial in which case you would be locked out of the stormcloak half.

In case of ESO it would be even worse, as you would be locked out of 2/3 of the game(not counting cyrodiil).

DAoC had it that way. Guess what the complaints were back then?

"Wait, i bought the WHOLE game, and now you're telling me i won't see 2/3 of it unless i GRIND to level 50 twice more?!?"

Tannakaobi

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

The worst is part of the Mage Guild line:

I gave Valaste to Uncle Sheo at the end of the Mage Guild quests, only to have her appear in the Mages Guilds of other factions.

YOU DID WHAT? Valaste is the only Altmer I have ever liked in pretty much every TES game.

But anyway, as the 'story' goes, you are technically in the past. In theory you have not yet done the mage guild quest line when you are in the VR zones. So realistically you should be doing them again.

Just another reason why VR sucks balls and is LAZY development.

Also, how did you do the spoiler hide thing?

Hodorius

It is/was not lazy developing... it´s doing what the crowd wanted.

A few weeks before launch there was a biiiiiiig whine about this...
People wanted to do every quest and go everywhere they want with the same character... ZOS did what "we" wanted.

I do not like this desicion but I can´t change it.

I think these other zones should be optional so everyone who does not want this can do something else.

steveb16_ESO46

mndfreeze wrote: »

If the immersion thing is such a deal breaker, just go grind vr1 to 12 on anomolies like people are doing and get your vr12 in 2 days, then roll an alt for that other faction "so the story makes sense"

But then you will just complain you dont want to start at level 1, or something else about why its not perfect. Me, personally, I'm happy ZOS made the choice to let me take my character over there and have 2 more alliances of content and story to enjoy. I can just pretend im part of their faction now, just like making an alt would be.

Because grinding is SUCH fun. Besides all the grinding exploits get closed once the current VR's are finished exploiting them.

And don't tell me what I would or would not say or do. You're not God looking into the hearts of men, you're just some guy on the internet making stuff up.

I already got alts thanks very much and if I don't want to do stupid, pointless, lazy VR crap that manages to both be a boring grind and an insult to my intelligence i'll be doing what people are probably already doing in their thousands each week.

Taking our money elsewhere with all the implications that has on the future nature and quality of this game.

ESO isn't the only game in town and if they don't want to deliver the excellent story driven questing of 1-50 but insist on us grinding through nonsense they'll soon find this out.

But maybe ESO can sustain itself as a group focused grinder. I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it though. I probably would accept short odds on it being FTP in 12 months unless ZMO wake up and realise you cannot just wave the 'A Wizard Did It' wand to turn an excellent story driven adventure into a standard 2004-Issue grinder without paying a price.

I want ESO to be a success but for me to keep subbing after the 6 months comes out it has to deliver what I want. And that's not an unbalanced, old fashioned grind for the sake of grind, perpetual beta.

I want the ES game it is from 1-50. I want more depth, more breadth not more grind.

Unfortunately ESO is not the modern innovative MMO we were led to expect. It could have come out any time in the last 15 years and no one would have blinked.

A lot of ES players are going to be like me. We're older now. We have jobs and responsibilities. We have limited leisure time and can't play 5 hours a day. When we play we want to have fun.

We don't want to be put on a dress and pick up a couple of sticks and begin grinding anomalies or whatever the latest unclosed loophole happens to be at the time. And neither do we want to be grinding from one tedious life or death struggle to another with another set of inexplicably super-powered trash mobs for a story that makes no sense.

We want ZMO to provide what they did 1-50. A great storyline to progress through, playing our way.

I'm not a generous guy and ZMO aren't a charity. No matter how big an ES fan I am I won't be supporting the game unless it delivers what attracted it to me in the first place.

It's pretty clear from the roadmap that the vision driving this game is:

'2004 Grinder'.

That's unfortunate but maybe it'll be a huge success. It'd be great if it was.

mndfreeze

This is why I said people need to change the way they are seeing this. Normally an MMO just wouldn't let you do it. The other factions content is THERE, but not for you, its for the players on the other faction. You are only playing your factions story and thats it. So when you finish that and run out of content? oh well, roll an alt.

This is just them realizing that is pretty stupid when they have 3 factions worth of good storytelling and questing in the game, might as well let ALL players visit it if they want, but not everyone wants to roll an alt to do it. So they added in some little hooks so you can keep using your character. Its a bonus. The other option would be it just wouldnt exist, like every other mmo that comes out.

Also since someone seemed to think you are doing the same quest over, you are not. The main quest is not there, nor is the mage guild and fighters guild quest lines, because those are exactly the same for all factions it would be stupid to have them in to be repeated.

Anyway, this argument is as silly as someone saying 'gee I have to reroll if I want to see the horde questlines in wow? thats lame! it doesn't make sense!' Be happy the devs spent the time to give you a way to enjoy all the content they wrote without having to reroll every time, if you are stuck on the idea that you just cant because its against your faction or whatever, then don't, but then you are making the choice not to do the other factions content and you can't complain there isnt any end game since it will just take time for it to appear.

steveb16_ESO46

Kronosphere wrote: »

i def hear ya about loylty. im also EP, and i only get through by roleplaying im infiltrating them by making every major quest "decision" to hinder the countires respective military might/defence =P

but i am pretty certain the entire vr content is going to change for the better, they have acknowledged it was a bad idea with other zones and progression etc the question is how long can u wait for it?

There's no sign at all of this. The Road Map talks only about rewards and inserting some sort of unspecified but difficult way of 'preparing' ourselves for it.

They don't understand - it's not the difficulty although heaven knows the whole super-powered trash mob stuff is absurd - it's the actual nature of the VR itself. It needs what we actually expected - a continuation of our faction story into these areas.

But - it's not happening and there's no sign, hint or portent that it ever will.

steveb16_ESO46

Hodorius wrote: »

It is/was not lazy developing... it´s doing what the crowd wanted.

A few weeks before launch there was a biiiiiiig whine about this...
People wanted to do every quest and go everywhere they want with the same character... ZOS did what "we" wanted.

I do not like this desicion but I can´t change it.

I think these other zones should be optional so everyone who does not want this can do something else.

I wanted and requested no such thing. besides it wasn't that. It's that Zen had no end game content ready so they a bit of cut-scene hand-waving, applied a multiplier to mob difficulties and there is was.

End Game. Problem solved.

Tannakaobi

Sharee wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

mndfreeze wrote: »

The questing in other factions was just a way to addres people wanting to do that content but not have to roll an alt to do it, which I'm grateful for. I hate alts.

To me that doesn't make much sense. Life is about making choices and living with that choice. In Skyrim if you wanted to play as both Imperial and Stormcloak you would have to have two characters.

It would be a more apt example if playing as a stormcloak would make you unable to enter one half of skyrim unless you restart the game as an imperial in which case you would be locked out of the stormcloak half.

In case of ESO it would be even worse, as you would be locked out of 2/3 of the game(not counting cyrodiil).

DAoC had it that way. Guess what the complaints were back then?

"Wait, i bought the WHOLE game, and now you're telling me i won't see 2/3 of it unless i GRIND to level 50 twice more?!?"

Grinding to level 50 three times would be a lot quicker than grinding just one factions VR content. So the use of the word 'grind' is not logical.

It is lazy development, even if what you say is true and I have no reason to think otherwise it is still badly implemented. They have given no thought to the process demonstrated by the fact that often in the solo dungeons the 'boss' is weaker than the mobs. Much of the loot is still set to normal levels instead of VR ranks.

What they should have done is replaced the faction quests with Espionage and sabotage. That way it would still fit within the Lore of each character and would still please the 'I want the whole world on one character' crowd.

That is why it's lazy, and like many people have said. It should at least be optional.

Hodorius wrote: »

It is/was not lazy developing... it´s doing what the crowd wanted.

A few weeks before launch there was a biiiiiiig whine about this...
People wanted to do every quest and go everywhere they want with the same character... ZOS did what "we" wanted.

I do not like this desicion but I can´t change it.

I think these other zones should be optional so everyone who does not want this can do something else.

steveb16_ESO46

It's not 'grinding' L1-50 because the enemies are balanced. It's 'grinding' doing them as VR because of the insane difficulty level, the forced dress and stick builds and the in practice forced grouping.

L1-50 is fun partially because the story actually makes sense. It's your faction.

EDITED to add: And no - unclosed Craglorn or whatever loopholes that can be ground does not make VR 'optional' unless they put the skyshards gated behind the VR other faction grinds in the mail or something.

Sharee

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Much of the loot is still set to normal levels instead of VR ranks.

Aside from provisioning materials, everything i looted in VR zones so far was VR-level.

Sharee

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

It's 'grinding' doing them as VR because of the insane difficulty level, the forced dress and stick builds and the in practice forced grouping.

I am soloing my way through VR content as a nightblade wearing medium armor and using DW melee, which should be the worst possible combination, yet i am doing fine.

Tannakaobi

Sharee wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Much of the loot is still set to normal levels instead of VR ranks.

Aside from provisioning materials, everything i looted in VR zones so far was VR-level.

and why would you want low level provisioning materials in VR zones? Basically it was too much effort to change it, hence the use of the word lazy.

Hodorius

What I find sad is:

There are lot´s of people disliking these VR1-10 zones but noone of us went to reddit and put his opinion into these threads...

If I skip voting day I have no right to rant about the governent´s desicions...
We should have "voted" back then

jpp

I think you put few different thougsts:
1. Why the only option to level is to do VR content by question - somehow I agree, but not sure if PvP last patch to get more vr points fixes this for pure PVP players but I noticed that it really gives some visible progress. Indeed also dungeon grind should give similar result and there is Carlgorn grind - you can try this.
2. Immersion - but who really cares so much about it? Just do the quests as you like them. If not jump to Cargorn or play PvP.

The problem I see is that once I choose the class I must play it till the end - I really hate idea of leveling up new characters through all of the quests again.

steveb16_ESO46

Why the hell should we have to go to that useless piece of trash site? I expect most people are like me and were completely unaware that anything officially ESO related ever goes on there.

Besides, this was a cheap way to get out of new content provision. Nothing to do with what people might want.

Sharee

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Much of the loot is still set to normal levels instead of VR ranks.

Aside from provisioning materials, everything i looted in VR zones so far was VR-level.

and why would you want low level provisioning materials in VR zones? Basically it was too much effort to change it, hence the use of the word lazy.

Or maybe it's just an itemization bug. And i never said i want low level provisioning materials in low level zones.

mndfreeze

I'm not having any issues with VR content yet either. Nor are any of my guildmates and friends, a few of which are 12 already, most are 6 to 8.

I sure am glad I get to enjoy all that extra story and content they wrote, even if I have to come up with my own little reasoning as to why my character is doing it. The amount of content in each zone, even minus the 2 guilds and main story is immense and thankfully they gave me a way to do it without starting all over.

The ideal situation would have, IMO, been to make alterations to all the quests that are against you faction where you get a choice to maybe help your own alliance instead of the one your questing in, but I also understand that with the massive amount of content they spent years making already, that it just isn't feasible, at least not by release day. Since I'm a really casual player, with a job and all that adult stuff it will let me enjoy the game for another month or two at least before I start getting close to running out of things to do and only have pvp left. In that time frame hopefully they will have even more content. I'm looking forward to it.

Tannakaobi

Hodorius wrote: »

What I find sad is:

There are lot´s of people disliking these VR1-10 zones but noone of us went to reddit and put his opinion into these threads...

If I skip voting day I have no right to rant about the governent´s desicions...
We should have "voted" back then

In all fairness I get a voting reminder in the days before it's time to vote. I joined up for Beta in the first couple of days it was open to join and never once was told about reddit. In fact I had to google it just to know what you meant.

Anastasia

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

In all other respects any VR zone is just the same pre-VR.

For example, even though I'm from EP, Daggerfall now loves me because I saved their king.

Which is precisely why some of us think this whole thing is lazy, hand-waving bullcrap. We have no interest whatsoever in fighting for another faction and against our own.

all this - 'what if you washed up on another shore?' I'd have still been a loyal Daggerfall Covenant Breton, not a traitor, thank you very much.

---

Idle curiosity here: did you read anything, even one sentence about what this game was about, either on the website, at a fansite, on the retail box, at a retail site etc? Anything?

This feature - that after 50 a player would be involved in questing lines which put them squarely into two of the other factions territory - it was so clearly promo'd, publicized and stated as a fact of the Veteran + content, it is literally not possible a person could not have been informed about this feature before purchasing or subbing.

I don't understand. It is highly unlikely the company is going to change a major, long-time development feature at this point. Class balance, grouping issues, adjustments to exp and loot rewards - these are known to have been topics tackled in many other newly launched mmo's, not in place bedrock parts of the originally designed primary focus features of the game.

Some dev somewhere in the process said "Hey, lets give the players some choice and something different to do as they continue to learn their builds. We have promoted our game not to exclude alt-making but to encourage doing most gameplay on a primary character. So, lets send them over to the other side, the other factions for a period of time before they level up and head to another original creation we have: the Adventure Zones."

And then some suit or several suits APPROVED that idea. Then it was implemented. Then the word was put out via interviews, publicity, the official test Beta Server, advertising on the retail BOXES, fansites etc. etc. etc.

Just as described.