arobertson.eeb14a_ESO wrote: »

Currently downloading the PTS to try some of these changes before passing final judgment but I'm not seeing an overall improvement in the current patch notes so far given the number of cosmetic changes and scattered nerfs.

But anyways here are my thoughts on the current notes and hopes for the class. (I apologize in advance for the very long post).

Assassination

Assassin’s Blade: Cosmetic

Incapacitate (Haste morph): Waiting to see how much of a percentage it is, but I am expecting at least a visible change in per damage hit if not overall DPS, meaning at least 10%. Of course there's also the ever expectant bow/staff heavy attack speed buff fix.

Master Assassin: This is a nice change that actually makes it so our class abilities actually receive some damage bonus. It's still only a bonus to one to three attacks in a fight assuming you have magicka to spare for shadow cloak so it's main use is probably that little extra damage needed to take out that caster immediately instead of spending a few more seconds finishing it up after a stealth attack.

Reaper’s Mark (Mark Target morph): Disappointing, that it can no longer stack the buff as short as it may be, especially given the significant magicka costs associated with reaper's mark. I would at least like to see the duration increased to 1 minute to be on par with the on-demand versions available to sorcerers and dragon knights.

Shadow

Path of Darkness: I have significantly different thoughts on this ability, but we'll see if this is even on par with wall of elements. For a narrow and fairly short range ability that really isn't that useful as either an escape, taunt, or offensive ability in its current form, I'd expect the direction of this ability to be more in-line with the defensive nature of the shadow skill line.

Refreshing Path: Realistically it's only going to be about 18 stamina/2s assuming you are at already at 60 stamina/2s if not already at the soft-cap for some reason. If full medium armor ever becomes significantly competitive, this ability will probably lose most of its effect to the soft cap, but until then I'll take what I can get as it is a nice buff all around for now.

Siphoning

Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): Really? Fix the tool-tip for now if you must, but this won't change anything. So much damage in the game is avoidable and when you do need a heal this little trickle isn't going to save you. The opportunity cost for choosing it over resource recovery on all attacks is too great to even consider a ~70hp heal per hit when you factor in the damage loss to choose this ability.

Magicka Flood: I honestly though this one was working, but okay.

Siphoning Strikes: This has become a core ability to pretty much all Nightblades. Nerfing it to promote build diversity is absurd. Now I can understand the issue with restoration staves and their "infinite" magicka, but if you look at the numbers it's on average 5.5% recovery per attack. The basic restoration staff heavy attack is almost twice that. Nightblade healers won't even feel a 1-2% loss while DPS and tanks will suffer a significant loss in sustained damage and stamina recovery. Otherwise, this is the last thread Nightblades are hanging on to in order to remain effective. These changes, especially at this point are totally justifiable rights for outrage in my opinion.

Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph): Cosmetic, and technically a stealth nerf. I suppose the intent is for soul shred to remain un-morphed for an AoE burst option, and Soul Siphon to offer more single target. Both options just end up feeling underwhelming for ultimate abilities.

Strife: Cosmetic

---

That said, these are the changes I've always hoped for in addition to the planned fixes for known issues:

Assassination:

Teleport Strike (and morphs): Slightly reduce magicka cost.

Right now, the damage on teleport strike isn't anything special. It's an effective gap closer and has its place in burst rotations in PvP by providing an enhanced follow up attack, but it's hard to justify having it on your limited skill bar just for those purposes otherwise at current cost, especially if we are trying to get away from the full light armor builds.

Lotus Blade (Teleport Strike morph): Increase the radius to 6 meters. Moderatly increase the damage over time component.

There is no listed AoE radius on this ability and, quite frankly, its miniscule anyways. I've seen it routinely miss the 3rd target in a loosely spaced group of three if I don't carefully aim to position myself to land in the center of all of them. The damage is actually the same overall as the other morphs which, honestly, does not make much sense. The extra DoT damage coupled with a more reliable radius should make this ability a reasonable alternative for PvE tanks and AoE skill sets.

Ambush (Teleport Strike morph): Position the caster behind and facing the target. (Possibly only on NPCs)

Give Nightblades a slight edge in a world where everyone has the ability to stealth and sneak attack. Trying to get a sneak attack in a group of onrushing NPCs is an exercise in futility without wasting more magicka on shadow cloak that could probably better be spent elsewhere. Repositioning to avoid attacks also fits well with the elusive nature of Nightblades in general.

Blur: Remove and replace with new ability. Reintegrate the concept into the shadow skill line where it belongs. Example alterative ability provided below.

It makes no sense as an assassination ability. I might have used it if I had more room on a skill bar, but it doesn't deserve a place on my main bar even while tanking. Ultimately it's just a boring fire and forget before a fight for 15% miss chance. The morphs are nothing interesting either. Off balance from Mirage doesn't actually stun and doesn't even proc that often. You can try both Mirage and Sparks and you might see one or two procs over its duration at 100% miss chance. Double take for 30% miss chance is a little better but, between the short duration and the cumbersome weapon swap animations it can't be used reactively from the second bar. It's analogs in the Dragon Knight and Templar trees are at least more practical or flat out more effective.

Fire Bomb (Blur replacement): 15m range, 5m radius, ground target, medium-high cost, no synergy. Deals fire damage and applies burning to affected targets for moderate damage over 3 seconds.

Provides a much desired class AoE ability to Nightblades without resorting to using a staff. Where Drain Power and it's morphs should be used occasionally, this ability should be a competitive alternative for clearing out groups.

Flash bang (Fire Bomb morph): 15m range, 6m radius, ground target, slightly higher cost, no synergy. No longer deals damage but stuns affected enemies for 3 seconds. Afterwards, enemies are disoriented for 3 seconds.

A reliable CC option that provides the solo players some breathing room when facing multiple enemies and tanks an alternative to volcanic rune for controlling packs in dungeons. The ability does no damage, is subject to all forms of CC removal and immunity along with a high cost that prevents spamming, but takes effect instantly.

Choking Gas (Fire Bomb morph): 15m range, 6m radius, ground target, slightly higher cost, 4 second duration, no synergy. No longer deals direct damage, but deals moderate poison damage over 4 seconds. Applies a non-stacking de-buff for 3 seconds to targets within or entering the field. NPCs are silenced but may continue to auto attack and use weapon abilities. Players suffer a 50% increase in magicka costs for the duration of the de-buff.
This would be a very desirable ranged option for locking down mage/healer NPCs as well as a unique facet in PvP.

Reaper's Mark (Mark Target morph): In addition to removing the stacking buff, increase the duration of the effect to 1 minute.

It already has a very high cost associated with it and Nightblades actually have to be engaged in a fight to enable their damage buffs unlike Sorcerers and Dragon Knights.

Hemmorrage (Passive): Increases critical strike damage by 5/10% per assassination ability slotted up to 20%.

The Nightblades could do with a little damage buff that doesn't spill over to other classes and two assassination abilities is not unreasonable for several DPS builds.

Shadow:

Shadow Cloak (and morphs): slightly lower the magicka cost. Allow the use of dodge roll, sprint, and weapon swap while invisible. Remove visible particle effects when invisible and do not drop invisibility until an action that would break it completes.

Right now, it is too expensive to be used as a reliable escape even with light armor never mind medium and heavy. You'd need to cast it several times and I am pretty sure you become visible while casting even if you still have time remaining on the previous buff. Players will just watch for the inevitable reappearance nearby since you can't get very far walking nor return to stealth if you get out of line of sight. Just being able to sprint while invisible could go a ways to providing a decent escape option.

Path of Darkness (and morphs): Integrate blur into all forms of path of darkness. All attacks targeting players in the path receive a 15% miss chance.

This would provide a desirable group buff while still preserving the basic concept of Blur in a skill line where it makes sense.

Twisting Path (Path of Darkness morph): Area of effect changed from a linear path to a 8m player based field. The caster receives an additional 10% miss chance on all incoming attacks which decreases by 5% every 5 seconds.

Most of the time everything just runs off the narrow path as a group of enemies rushes towards the group. The current cone effect isn't really any better. It feels like it's barely a 60o arc. A player based AoE with a decent radius is much more controllable.

Refreshing Path (Path of Darkness morph): The area of effect now has a cone shape with a 120o arc and a slightly shorter length. Damage is significantly reduced and healing is moderately increased.

This option would be more desirable for healers. The healing increase is already planned, but the size of the field is still terrible. I've had enough issues with getting people to stay in veil of blades.

Aspect of Terror (and morphs): Increase the number of targets to 3 and choose targets on a priority system. 'Elite' (and not immune) > mages/healers > remaining targets with highest percent health remaining.

Nothing is more frustrating as a melee character than having to chase down low hp mobs while the full hp ones are still beating on me. I'm surprised there isn't a system like this in place, at least based on remaining health, but it just seems to be based on distance.

Mass Hysteria (Aspect of Terror morph): Change the fear effect to a cower, stun, or root effect. (Maybe swap the name with Manifestation of Terror)

We don't always want things running around randomly while party members are trying to hit them. Just keep them in place and under control. The Manifestation of Terror morph still provides an option for ranged classes to keep their distance by fearing enemies away from them.

Shadow Barrier (Passive): Increase base duration to 6 seconds

With Dark Veil, this would be more in line with the duration provided by lightning form.

Siphoning:

Siphoning Strikes ( and morphs): Remove or significantly reduce the damage component from stamina and light/heavy attacks.

I am aware you can simply toggle the ability off, but perhaps this change will entice some more stamina focus builds for higher overall DPS through sustain.

Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): Either increase the health recovery per hit to 4% or add a 15% chance for a 10% heal which works out to an average of 3.5% health per hit.

There is no compelling reason to choose Leeching Strikes in its current form over Siphoning Attacks. It's not really needed in fights against one to two enemies and won't keep you alive against three without CC anyways. In a group your healer will top you off far faster than a mere ~70 HP per hit will ever manage while you are trying to avoid mechanics.

Sap Essence (Drain Power morph): Increase the base healing by 4x and double the magicka cost, but split the total among 4 group members within 4 meters including the caster as a heal over 3 seconds. The caster receives only 25% of the potential heal.

In a hypothetical fight against 6 enemies with a base heal of 100, this would currently heal all members for 220 hp. At 4x the base heal it would heal 3 party members for 220 over three seconds and the caster for 55. With a single partner or with correct positioning it would heal for 440 over 3 seconds and the caster for 110. With no other group members in range, it would heal the caster for 220. Given the damage output of enemies these numbers seem reasonable while still providing a controllable 'burst' heal for a magicka cost of about 50% of their maximum magicka.

arobertson.eeb14a_ESO wrote: »

Sap Essence (Drain Power morph): Increase the base healing by 4x and double the magicka cost, but split the total among 4 group members within 4 meters including the caster as a heal over 3 seconds. The caster receives only 25% of the potential heal.

In a hypothetical fight against 6 enemies with a base heal of 100, this would currently heal all members for 220 hp. At 4x the base heal it would heal 3 party members for 220 over three seconds and the caster for 55. With a single partner or with correct positioning it would heal for 440 over 3 seconds and the caster for 110. With no other group members in range, it would heal the caster for 220. Given the damage output of enemies these numbers seem reasonable while still providing a controllable 'burst' heal for a magicka cost of about 50% of their maximum magicka.

F7sus4 wrote: »

1) After finding that Zenimax-staff reponsible for gameplay fixes don't even check this topic, I decided to leave.

1a) No, these ZOS_Jessica's and the rest are only outsourced PR buffer puppet-staff that copy-pastes templated answers. And they've already failed with *** of information here. Making it short: No one is listening.

2) NB is not going to be fixed. Recent updates are performed basing on meta-data calculation gained from combat-logs on server activity. As long as NBs are being blamed for winning with cheesy Shadowy Disguise + Surprise Attack combo, you'll not see buffs to our class, but nerfs. Go on, hate me, I don't care - this is the harsh truth.

3) Therefore, the only actual reason for this topic to exist is to wash player's frustration off and go on.

(*)

arobertson.eeb14a_ESO wrote: »

Currently downloading the PTS to try some of these changes before passing final judgment but I'm not seeing an overall improvement in the current patch notes so far given the number of cosmetic changes and scattered nerfs.

But anyways here are my thoughts on the current notes and hopes for the class. (I apologize in advance for the very long post).

Assassination

Assassin’s Blade: Cosmetic

Incapacitate (Haste morph): Waiting to see how much of a percentage it is, but I am expecting at least a visible change in per damage hit if not overall DPS, meaning at least 10%. Of course there's also the ever expectant bow/staff heavy attack speed buff fix.

Master Assassin: This is a nice change that actually makes it so our class abilities actually receive some damage bonus. It's still only a bonus to one to three attacks in a fight assuming you have magicka to spare for shadow cloak so it's main use is probably that little extra damage needed to take out that caster immediately instead of spending a few more seconds finishing it up after a stealth attack.

Reaper’s Mark (Mark Target morph): Disappointing, that it can no longer stack the buff as short as it may be, especially given the significant magicka costs associated with reaper's mark. I would at least like to see the duration increased to 1 minute to be on par with the on-demand versions available to sorcerers and dragon knights.

Shadow

Path of Darkness: I have significantly different thoughts on this ability, but we'll see if this is even on par with wall of elements. For a narrow and fairly short range ability that really isn't that useful as either an escape, taunt, or offensive ability in its current form, I'd expect the direction of this ability to be more in-line with the defensive nature of the shadow skill line.

Refreshing Path: Realistically it's only going to be about 18 stamina/2s assuming you are at already at 60 stamina/2s if not already at the soft-cap for some reason. If full medium armor ever becomes significantly competitive, this ability will probably lose most of its effect to the soft cap, but until then I'll take what I can get as it is a nice buff all around for now.

Siphoning

Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): Really? Fix the tool-tip for now if you must, but this won't change anything. So much damage in the game is avoidable and when you do need a heal this little trickle isn't going to save you. The opportunity cost for choosing it over resource recovery on all attacks is too great to even consider a ~70hp heal per hit when you factor in the damage loss to choose this ability.

Magicka Flood: I honestly though this one was working, but okay.

Siphoning Strikes: This has become a core ability to pretty much all Nightblades. Nerfing it to promote build diversity is absurd. Now I can understand the issue with restoration staves and their "infinite" magicka, but if you look at the numbers it's on average 5.5% recovery per attack. The basic restoration staff heavy attack is almost twice that. Nightblade healers won't even feel a 1-2% loss while DPS and tanks will suffer a significant loss in sustained damage and stamina recovery. Otherwise, this is the last thread Nightblades are hanging on to in order to remain effective. These changes, especially at this point are totally justifiable rights for outrage in my opinion.

Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph): Cosmetic, and technically a stealth nerf. I suppose the intent is for soul shred to remain un-morphed for an AoE burst option, and Soul Siphon to offer more single target. Both options just end up feeling underwhelming for ultimate abilities.

Strife: Cosmetic

---

That said, these are the changes I've always hoped for in addition to the planned fixes for known issues:

Assassination:

Teleport Strike (and morphs): Slightly reduce magicka cost.

Right now, the damage on teleport strike isn't anything special. It's an effective gap closer and has its place in burst rotations in PvP by providing an enhanced follow up attack, but it's hard to justify having it on your limited skill bar just for those purposes otherwise at current cost, especially if we are trying to get away from the full light armor builds.

Lotus Blade (Teleport Strike morph): Increase the radius to 6 meters. Moderatly increase the damage over time component.

There is no listed AoE radius on this ability and, quite frankly, its miniscule anyways. I've seen it routinely miss the 3rd target in a loosely spaced group of three if I don't carefully aim to position myself to land in the center of all of them. The damage is actually the same overall as the other morphs which, honestly, does not make much sense. The extra DoT damage coupled with a more reliable radius should make this ability a reasonable alternative for PvE tanks and AoE skill sets.

Ambush (Teleport Strike morph): Position the caster behind and facing the target. (Possibly only on NPCs)

Give Nightblades a slight edge in a world where everyone has the ability to stealth and sneak attack. Trying to get a sneak attack in a group of onrushing NPCs is an exercise in futility without wasting more magicka on shadow cloak that could probably better be spent elsewhere. Repositioning to avoid attacks also fits well with the elusive nature of Nightblades in general.

Blur: Remove and replace with new ability. Reintegrate the concept into the shadow skill line where it belongs. Example alterative ability provided below.

It makes no sense as an assassination ability. I might have used it if I had more room on a skill bar, but it doesn't deserve a place on my main bar even while tanking. Ultimately it's just a boring fire and forget before a fight for 15% miss chance. The morphs are nothing interesting either. Off balance from Mirage doesn't actually stun and doesn't even proc that often. You can try both Mirage and Sparks and you might see one or two procs over its duration at 100% miss chance. Double take for 30% miss chance is a little better but, between the short duration and the cumbersome weapon swap animations it can't be used reactively from the second bar. It's analogs in the Dragon Knight and Templar trees are at least more practical or flat out more effective.

Fire Bomb (Blur replacement): 15m range, 5m radius, ground target, medium-high cost, no synergy. Deals fire damage and applies burning to affected targets for moderate damage over 3 seconds.

Provides a much desired class AoE ability to Nightblades without resorting to using a staff. Where Drain Power and it's morphs should be used occasionally, this ability should be a competitive alternative for clearing out groups.

Flash bang (Fire Bomb morph): 15m range, 6m radius, ground target, slightly higher cost, no synergy. No longer deals damage but stuns affected enemies for 3 seconds. Afterwards, enemies are disoriented for 3 seconds.

A reliable CC option that provides the solo players some breathing room when facing multiple enemies and tanks an alternative to volcanic rune for controlling packs in dungeons. The ability does no damage, is subject to all forms of CC removal and immunity along with a high cost that prevents spamming, but takes effect instantly.

Choking Gas (Fire Bomb morph): 15m range, 6m radius, ground target, slightly higher cost, 4 second duration, no synergy. No longer deals direct damage, but deals moderate poison damage over 4 seconds. Applies a non-stacking de-buff for 3 seconds to targets within or entering the field. NPCs are silenced but may continue to auto attack and use weapon abilities. Players suffer a 50% increase in magicka costs for the duration of the de-buff.
This would be a very desirable ranged option for locking down mage/healer NPCs as well as a unique facet in PvP.

Reaper's Mark (Mark Target morph): In addition to removing the stacking buff, increase the duration of the effect to 1 minute.

It already has a very high cost associated with it and Nightblades actually have to be engaged in a fight to enable their damage buffs unlike Sorcerers and Dragon Knights.

Hemmorrage (Passive): Increases critical strike damage by 5/10% per assassination ability slotted up to 20%.

The Nightblades could do with a little damage buff that doesn't spill over to other classes and two assassination abilities is not unreasonable for several DPS builds.

Shadow:

Shadow Cloak (and morphs): slightly lower the magicka cost. Allow the use of dodge roll, sprint, and weapon swap while invisible. Remove visible particle effects when invisible and do not drop invisibility until an action that would break it completes.

Right now, it is too expensive to be used as a reliable escape even with light armor never mind medium and heavy. You'd need to cast it several times and I am pretty sure you become visible while casting even if you still have time remaining on the previous buff. Players will just watch for the inevitable reappearance nearby since you can't get very far walking nor return to stealth if you get out of line of sight. Just being able to sprint while invisible could go a ways to providing a decent escape option.

Path of Darkness (and morphs): Integrate blur into all forms of path of darkness. All attacks targeting players in the path receive a 15% miss chance.

This would provide a desirable group buff while still preserving the basic concept of Blur in a skill line where it makes sense.

Twisting Path (Path of Darkness morph): Area of effect changed from a linear path to a 8m player based field. The caster receives an additional 10% miss chance on all incoming attacks which decreases by 5% every 5 seconds.

Most of the time everything just runs off the narrow path as a group of enemies rushes towards the group. The current cone effect isn't really any better. It feels like it's barely a 60o arc. A player based AoE with a decent radius is much more controllable.

Refreshing Path (Path of Darkness morph): The area of effect now has a cone shape with a 120o arc and a slightly shorter length. Damage is significantly reduced and healing is moderately increased.

This option would be more desirable for healers. The healing increase is already planned, but the size of the field is still terrible. I've had enough issues with getting people to stay in veil of blades.

Aspect of Terror (and morphs): Increase the number of targets to 3 and choose targets on a priority system. 'Elite' (and not immune) > mages/healers > remaining targets with highest percent health remaining.

Nothing is more frustrating as a melee character than having to chase down low hp mobs while the full hp ones are still beating on me. I'm surprised there isn't a system like this in place, at least based on remaining health, but it just seems to be based on distance.

Mass Hysteria (Aspect of Terror morph): Change the fear effect to a cower, stun, or root effect. (Maybe swap the name with Manifestation of Terror)

We don't always want things running around randomly while party members are trying to hit them. Just keep them in place and under control. The Manifestation of Terror morph still provides an option for ranged classes to keep their distance by fearing enemies away from them.

Shadow Barrier (Passive): Increase base duration to 6 seconds

With Dark Veil, this would be more in line with the duration provided by lightning form.

Siphoning:

Siphoning Strikes ( and morphs): Remove or significantly reduce the damage component from stamina and light/heavy attacks.

I am aware you can simply toggle the ability off, but perhaps this change will entice some more stamina focus builds for higher overall DPS through sustain.

Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): Either increase the health recovery per hit to 4% or add a 15% chance for a 10% heal which works out to an average of 3.5% health per hit.

There is no compelling reason to choose Leeching Strikes in its current form over Siphoning Attacks. It's not really needed in fights against one to two enemies and won't keep you alive against three without CC anyways. In a group your healer will top you off far faster than a mere ~70 HP per hit will ever manage while you are trying to avoid mechanics.

Sap Essence (Drain Power morph): Increase the base healing by 4x and double the magicka cost, but split the total among 4 group members within 4 meters including the caster as a heal over 3 seconds. The caster receives only 25% of the potential heal.

In a hypothetical fight against 6 enemies with a base heal of 100, this would currently heal all members for 220 hp. At 4x the base heal it would heal 3 party members for 220 over three seconds and the caster for 55. With a single partner or with correct positioning it would heal for 440 over 3 seconds and the caster for 110. With no other group members in range, it would heal the caster for 220. Given the damage output of enemies these numbers seem reasonable while still providing a controllable 'burst' heal for a magicka cost of about 50% of their maximum magicka.

Devlinne wrote: »

For me i'll know the NB is OK when i hear the words "Oh ***....it's an NB"
I use voice chat when in pvp all the time.
How many of you have heard this or something like it......
"Damn! IT HAD TO BE A DK!"
"I need help! It's a DK!"
"Don't chase....no use...it's a sorc"
"WTF! One more hit! damn sorc!!"

and sadly.....
"Lolz u guys go on ahead...it's just a NB"
"No worries, i got this, it's just a DW NB.HAHAHAHAAH!"
"LOL! can u believe this NB actually tried to kill me??LOL!"

....*Sniffle*

arobertson.eeb14a_ESO wrote: »

But anyways here are my thoughts on the current notes and hopes for the class. (I apologize in advance for the very long post).

Kraven wrote: »

Switch Siphoning and Leeching Strikes to a duration group buff?

Haxer wrote: »

(VR4 med/DW/NB) << I need advice. My question to you other NB guys who go full light armor, for the DPS/magicka, how are you surviving in VR PvE? Even if I go 7/7 medium, I get killed by VR mobs almost instantly. I usually keep 2-3 pieces of Heavy around that I have to use in order to not die. I can't even imagine how you guys don't get 1-shotted in 7/7 light armor. Tips on this please!