Nightblade Update

Ysne58

Guys and gals, go into the PTS, test it out and see how it works before deciding it's all bad.

xylus289_ESO

NB is a p.o.s. class. This is my main and I'm not rerolling. I'd rather unsub, oh wait I already did....
Why? because I can't play a dual wield assassin build and have a side quest,in a VR zone, not feel nearly impossible.
If I wanted to ask another player to help me I'd go to craglorn. fv*k this $h!7.

DivZero

Things I would like to see
Assassination
Lotus Fan: added effect: after "jumping" more than 10 meters, enemies have a decreased chance to hit player based on distance traveled for 10 seconds
Master Assassin: Increase Damage done with Melee Weapons and Bows by 20% while attacking from behind
Executioner: attacking an enemy with <25% health has a chance of 2/5/10% to deal double damage
Shadow
Veiled Strike+Morphs: fixed an issue when skill would not stun or deal no damage, or both
Blur: replaced by new skill
Smoke Bomb: up to 5 allies next to nightblade gain a chance of 50% to negate the next incoming damage, 20 seconds cooldown
Siphoning
Siphoning strikes:
while slotted: chance on hit to recover 1% of lowest recource
while active: lowers damage done by 5%, recover 1% of all ressources on each hit


Just random changes.

steveb16_ESO46

Well. Now we know. The ZMO definition of 'improving' comes from the same Bizarro World dictionary they got 'fix' from.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

Ysne58 wrote: »

Guys and gals, go into the PTS, test it out and see how it works before deciding it's all bad.

We can't yet. And we don't need to. I certainly don't. I know my class very well and I know exactly what these changes bring... nothing of value.

If I thought "hmm this sounds ordinary but I'll need to try it first to be sure" then I would say so and you might have a point but I'm 100% certain these changes are junk. One improvement, one real nerf and one dishonest "fix" - the rest are cosmetic changes (that I've never heard anyone complain about) to pad out the text. Pathetic.

Are they genuinely this incompetent or deliberately slapping players in the face for daring to question their game design? Cutting off their nose to spite their face?

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

Bro ZoS, just change the name of the class from Nightblade to Bard already

DivZero

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Bro ZoS, just change the name of the class from Nightblade to Bard already

b.a.r.d. ... barely any relevant damage

steveb16_ESO46

I'd like the NB Dev to come and explain what the hell they are thinking.

F7sus4

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

I don't care or mind if other classes benefit from this as well - let them, it will still help us more.

It's not a matter of opinion, but understanding. And the problem with NB comparing to other classes is that its overall damage output is lower than theirs. We don't need to get a damage boost for everyone, but for NB exclusively. It's all about the balance between classes, mate. So no, this is why you can't just have your DW/bow weapon-damage boosted to fix the issue.

Deathztalker

The things is other classes do better DPS with a restro staff and easier then NB but I understand what your saying. Even though the DPS is not as good as what other classes can do with a restro staff it is still a way of doing good viable DPS.

I think what other people are trying to say is if they wanted to do restro staff DPS they would go with a class who is better suited to doing restro staff DPS.

Part of the reason why people are frustrated with NB's right now is they watched all of the ESO trailers before the game came out. They seen how the NB was portrayed and they though to them self I want to play a class like that. Or they have play other ES games and know how the NB game play was in all the other games. They hit VR in ESO and found the classes is not playable as portrayed in the ESO trailers and NB game play is not the same as in other ES games. A month has past now and ZOS says we know there is a problem with NB and we are going to fix it. They even started this post on the official ESO forms but there only talking about patches to the problem and not solutions. What ZOS should have said is yes we know there is a problem with the NB class and we are going to fix it but it will take a bit of time. First we need to fix some bugs with NB abilities and passives so there working correctly and clean up some tool tips. Then we need to fix some issues with weapon abilities and passives and after that we can take a in depth look at the NB class and come up with a solution. Because people don't know what is going on with the class and people are not happy and don't see a solution in site there frustrated and giving up.

What ZOS needs is better communication with their player base. . . . .

ferzalrwb17_ESO

F7sus4 wrote: »

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

I don't care or mind if other classes benefit from this as well - let them, it will still help us more.

It's not a matter of opinion, but understanding. And the problem with NB comparing to other classes is that its overall damage output is lower than. We don't need to get a damage boost for everyone, but for NB exclusively. It's all about the balance between classes, mate. So no, this is why you can't just have your DW/bow weapon-damage boosted to fix the issue.

Are you sure about that? What other classes will benefit as much? One of the main issues for the NB is that most people don't want to play it as a mage. Nightmages don't do too badly for the most part even though they're fairly limited.

NBs really feel like they have synergy with a blade and a bow rather than staffs and light armour. The problem is that stamina skills are nearly useless. Fix them and suddenly the Nightblade becomes a force because it works so well with mundane weapons. Buff medium armour more and you're in business for DPS stam builds. I can't imagine too many people beyond NB donning 5 bits of medium to be honest (in spite of what some people may say).

So other classes could benefit as well? That's great. I'd like to see the other classes using 5L/2H + staffs less as well wouldn't you? I still think the biggest winner would be the Nightblade - followed by Templar. They have the most ground to make up and it would even the playing field IMO.

DivZero

Deathztalker wrote: »

What ZOS needs is better communication with their player base. . . . .

dafraorb16_ESO

since there are DK players that spam things like this on the Public Test Server forum
we will still get nerfed

Attorneyatlawl wrote:
My NB has ambush for in-combat teleporting and initiation with stealth damage bonus, dot stacking, 50 cost high-burst-dmg ult + heal debuff, concealed weapon spam for low resource cost, and ranged specs that are good for DPS'ing, all make those three statements true. Oh, and we also get shadow image if you really want another teleport for some reason. Add in dark cloak letting us move at high speed in-combat (we gain stealth speed from concealed weapons and vampire passive) while invisible and auto-stopping any casts against us, and we have amazing mobility and burst damage in pvp. EDIT: Forgot to mention that we have an execute which does huge damage (850-950 + can crit upwards of 1500+ with killer's blade) as NB's. DK has none.

Attorneyatlawl wrote:
We (as Night Blades) already are better off than everyone else now if you look outside the cookie-cutter "SPAM CONCEALED BLADE" spec . Look into DOT specs, thank me later, you can out-dps dk and sorcs in trials already. These extra changes/buffs will only help round out NB even further.

NB's have a better main ultimate than the DK (veil of blades) as touched on above, plus a better PVP ultimate (heal debuff with tiny ult cost and high damage), plus a third viable ultimate. They have more utility as well. I think they're in a good place since a proper DOT spec can now do as much or more DPS in the trials as a DK or sorc. The resource generation is amazing as well thanks to Siphoning Attacks, and they have strong mobility with Dark Cloak bar its bug causing it to pop early at times related to DOT's, since we get stealth speed from concealed and vamp while cloaked, while also having a nice teleport skill in the form of Ambush.

F7sus4

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

I'd like the NB Dev to come and explain what the hell they are thinking.

You can tell that just by seeing what kind of patch-fixes they are including. Seeing no buffs/damage-boost can be easily translated as: "We claim there are no balacing issues with NB. Actually, you're overpowered".

ferzalrwb17_ESO

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

since there are DK players that spam things like this on the Public Test Server forum
we will still get nerfed

I'd like to think they're smart enough to spot these fakes but I don't. They've already made changes based on some Sorcerer's dabbling around with NBs for a few minutes and jumping to invalid conclusions.

I remember a dev stating he played a NB somewhere... Clearly a lie.

Glissando

This has GOT TO BE A *** JOKE!

Hey ZoS...what in the world would make you nerf NB? How stupid is this? This is just pure gold,i swear to god i'm just gonna stick around and see how much more they can [snip] this up.

[Edit to remove profanity]

Jarnhand

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

since there are DK players that spam things like this on the Public Test Server forum
we will still get nerfed

Attorneyatlawl wrote:
My NB has ambush for in-combat teleporting and initiation with stealth damage bonus, dot stacking, 50 cost high-burst-dmg ult + heal debuff, concealed weapon spam for low resource cost, and ranged specs that are good for DPS'ing, all make those three statements true. Oh, and we also get shadow image if you really want another teleport for some reason. Add in dark cloak letting us move at high speed in-combat (we gain stealth speed from concealed weapons and vampire passive) while invisible and auto-stopping any casts against us, and we have amazing mobility and burst damage in pvp. EDIT: Forgot to mention that we have an execute which does huge damage (850-950 + can crit upwards of 1500+ with killer's blade) as NB's. DK has none.

Attorneyatlawl wrote:
We (as Night Blades) already are better off than everyone else now if you look outside the cookie-cutter "SPAM CONCEALED BLADE" spec . Look into DOT specs, thank me later, you can out-dps dk and sorcs in trials already. These extra changes/buffs will only help round out NB even further.

NB's have a better main ultimate than the DK (veil of blades) as touched on above, plus a better PVP ultimate (heal debuff with tiny ult cost and high damage), plus a third viable ultimate. They have more utility as well. I think they're in a good place since a proper DOT spec can now do as much or more DPS in the trials as a DK or sorc. The resource generation is amazing as well thanks to Siphoning Attacks, and they have strong mobility with Dark Cloak bar its bug causing it to pop early at times related to DOT's, since we get stealth speed from concealed and vamp while cloaked, while also having a nice teleport skill in the form of Ambush.

So can someone explain to me this UBER OWNZORZ DoT build is!?!
And about vamps; SHOVE IT where the sun dont shine! I care LESS for your vamp bs! Remove the pathetic thing already, its a major problem for balancing classes.

Most of the comments above are theorycraft spewing and BS. How many skills do these guys have on their bars?! 20?! Once again; theorycraft BS!

If things do not get A LOT better then this for NBs in 1.2, its bye bye for many players. First Zenimax states they want to BOOST NBs in 1.2 (dangles carrot), then the first batch of 1.2 is mainly fluff and nerfs, nice fixing, nice going...NOT!

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO

Don't worry. I am calling it now... ZOS is going to use the 1.2.X excuse.

.X will be the patch in which Nightblades will be more inline with other Classes.

glitchmaster999

Jarnhand wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

since there are DK players that spam things like this on the Public Test Server forum
we will still get nerfed

Attorneyatlawl wrote:
My NB has ambush for in-combat teleporting and initiation with stealth damage bonus, dot stacking, 50 cost high-burst-dmg ult + heal debuff, concealed weapon spam for low resource cost, and ranged specs that are good for DPS'ing, all make those three statements true. Oh, and we also get shadow image if you really want another teleport for some reason. Add in dark cloak letting us move at high speed in-combat (we gain stealth speed from concealed weapons and vampire passive) while invisible and auto-stopping any casts against us, and we have amazing mobility and burst damage in pvp. EDIT: Forgot to mention that we have an execute which does huge damage (850-950 + can crit upwards of 1500+ with killer's blade) as NB's. DK has none.

Attorneyatlawl wrote:
We (as Night Blades) already are better off than everyone else now if you look outside the cookie-cutter "SPAM CONCEALED BLADE" spec . Look into DOT specs, thank me later, you can out-dps dk and sorcs in trials already. These extra changes/buffs will only help round out NB even further.

NB's have a better main ultimate than the DK (veil of blades) as touched on above, plus a better PVP ultimate (heal debuff with tiny ult cost and high damage), plus a third viable ultimate. They have more utility as well. I think they're in a good place since a proper DOT spec can now do as much or more DPS in the trials as a DK or sorc. The resource generation is amazing as well thanks to Siphoning Attacks, and they have strong mobility with Dark Cloak bar its bug causing it to pop early at times related to DOT's, since we get stealth speed from concealed and vamp while cloaked, while also having a nice teleport skill in the form of Ambush.

So can someone explain to me this UBER OWNZORZ DoT build is!?!
And about vamps; SHOVE IT where the sun dont shine! I care LESS for your vamp bs! Remove the pathetic thing already, its a major problem for balancing classes.

Most of the comments above are theorycraft spewing and BS. How many skills do these guys have on their bars?! 20?! Once again; theorycraft BS!

If things do not get A LOT better then this for NBs in 1.2, its bye bye for many players. First Zenimax states they want to BOOST NBs in 1.2 (dangles carrot), then the first batch of 1.2 is mainly fluff and nerfs, nice fixing, nice going...NOT!

Ive done a resto staff dual weild dot build, cant find the build link, I get more dos with 2 hander than I do with dot build.... highest ive see is 500 and thats on a short fight.... I can get anywhere upwards of 700 with 2 hander and dual weild, that's on vet bosses too...

Anyway besides the point, I dont think people want to play a nightstick.... buff stamina, make siphon strikes return more on crits and replace blur with a damage boost..... then we will talk

F7sus4

@ferzalrwb17_ESO: I'm absolutely positive about my statement. It's not about giving anything to everyone, but giving the right thing to the right class.

@dafraorb16_ESO: I see this argument really often. They just assume that having (quite) good Ultimates makes our class viable. Which isn't true. Also, Ambush/Teleport Strike isn't a golden-way ability too, just a gap closer. DKs may use Charge causing even more damage, and Sorcerers may use their Teleport having even more mobility than Nightblades (and should be the opposite). Phew!

ferzalrwb17_ESO

F7sus4 wrote: »

@ferzalrwb17_ESO: I'm absolutely positive about my statement. It's not about giving anything to everyone, but giving the right thing to the right class.

The point I was making is... how do you make non-mage NB's viable if the weapons they use are underpowered compared to the magesticks? You can't fix the NB stam builds without fixing the things that go with that.

The reason mage builds work is that the sticks also work.

If you concentrate only on the class skills you're pushing us further down the Massively Mages Online path since it's all about magicka.

F7sus4

how do you make non-mage NB's viable

You don't. At the moment, at least.

This is not about "just boosting weapon damage", but about giving Nightblades class-skill synergies to those weapons. Boosting weapon-skills that are available to all classes will allow abuse by (already overpowered) DKs. Just don't.

At some point Drain Power (Power Extraction/Sap Essence) seemed like a way to go. They could tweak this skill so both Dual-Wielders and Staff-Wielders would benefit, but (as usual) they did nothing.

Glissando

This is just stupid flawed game design...if everything scales with magicka it's only logical that you will always want to boost magicka...that's why everyone is running around dressed with light armor.Then...you make those skills that scale with magicka crit from...weapon crit becauseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...i dunno...because some reasons.It has got to be the most idiotic and ilogic *** ever.

I'm quite curious when are they going to get it into their heads that we don't want to freaking play with staffs and robes and make the class skills scale with stamina.

How hard can that be? Don't they see that the amount of people that are using staffs is overwhelming? Why do they just hate medium/dw/bow builds?

So...so disheartening.

DivZero

Glissando wrote: »

I'm quite curious when are they going to get it into their heads that we don't want to freaking play with staffs and make the class skills scale with stamina.

How hard can that be? Don't they see that the amount of people that are using staffs is overwhelming? Why do they just hate medium/dw/bow builds?

So...so disheartening.

recently at ZOS-HQ
"guys ... guys ... look, players really LOVE light armor and staffs! everyone's using it"
"cool bro, we should buff this more, they'll be happy even more!"

F7sus4

The problem with Stamina-builds is that you're torn between two attributes (Stamina for weapon-abilities/Magicka for class-abilities). Having Magicka-only build allows you to completely dump Stamina. A win-win situation, some may say.

Blinks

NightBlade - "Gimme some lovin, Gimmie some lovin!"

Zenimax - " Nevaaaah!"

Jeddahwe

If you want to DPS in this game forget class and think weapon...Get away from the 'class' mentality guys..class affects the least!

DPS: Staff (can you DPS as anything else? OFC. Is it as efficient as staff? NO!)
Tank: Shield
Healer: Staff

Simplez

steveb16_ESO46

Jeddahwe wrote: »

If you want to DPS in this game forget class and think weapon...Get away from the 'class' mentality guys..class affects the least!

DPS: Staff (can you DPS as anything else? OFC. Is it as efficient as staff? NO!)
Tank: Shield
Healer: Staff

Simplez

This thread is 32 pages long. And the conclusion you come to after all that is we have to be told to use a staff for dps?

God give me strength.

Really.

Sangeet

So at Level 3 when i pop out in Daggerfall creating my new DK, i get my first AOE root with DOT effect at lvl 7 or so, which is also very cheap to use, as its the 2nd skill on the draconic power line.
If i compare that to fear, i find that fear does not root my enemy's, they run around, which is less controllable than this root, its also deeper down the shadow tree. In comparison it costs me more mana to fear 2 mobs, than a DK has to expend for his AOE root.

To balance things:

move the aoe fear from the shadow tree down to the 2nd skill in the shadow tree, make it affect 5-9 targets as the DK talons, currently the snare is not working, also i dont see there is a 30% damage reduction debuff on the enemy mobs.

I would propose, that the fear causes the enemy's to stand still (cowerd) , and get a DOT effect (cosmetic, something like little haunting ghosts)

Duration of the DOT, Root effect , Mana cost => same as DK.

How hard could that be ?

Would it feel more balanced ?

Is the balance around group content ? I.e. its group PVP, group PVE ?

Right, but in this system where a DK, can heal , tank, DD

a Nightblade can heal , tank , DD

So its not acceptable that a DK levels 3x faster than any Nightblade.

Sorry i shelf my NB with this upcoming changes.

Xsorus

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Jeddahwe wrote: »

If you want to DPS in this game forget class and think weapon...Get away from the 'class' mentality guys..class affects the least!

DPS: Staff (can you DPS as anything else? OFC. Is it as efficient as staff? NO!)
Tank: Shield
Healer: Staff

Simplez

This thread is 32 pages long. And the conclusion you come to after all that is we have to be told to use a staff for dps?

God give me strength.

Really.

Guess what, Everyone has to use Staff for DPS, you're not a special snowflake.

Those DK's everyone whines about..Light Armor and a Staff, right now you can pull more DPS then them in RAIDS doing the same thing as a Nightblade.

The Euro's have caught onto it as well

"Maybe in US u had that DK meta in trials. NBs were highly wanted in EU, and in fact just before patch came out, top EU guild cleared AA below 10 min mark with 5 NB’s"

I'm sorry you want to play a Medium Armor Duel Wielder and the DPS sucks, but guess what..It sucks on every class, including DK's