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What would you like to see if/when ESO goes f2p?
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yelloweyedemon✭✭✭Rift did go F2P but they avoided P2W by making most everything, beyond cosmetics, available through game play and the really, really good stuff available -only- through game play.
Now STO is totally P2W.
SWTOR is not quite P2W but it is really limited unless you subscribe ( which I do ) or spend a lot inthe store for character / race / trade / armor unlocks.
You are kidding right? Rift is the most p2w game I've seen. They sold whole end-game armour sets on the store and probably still are. They are selling practically everything but the top armour/weapons. The difference between the top and the #2 (#2 is available on the store) is less than 5%. So a complete noob can just pay and be only 5% worse (stat - wise) than a veteran with years playtime...1 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Actually Eve Online hasn't gone f2p and they just hit 11 years.
Also Dark Age of Camelot, hitting 13+ years old is not f2p or p2w- but the poster will conclude they are out of his 5-10 year range. Only 2 known games went F2P- Sw:ToR and War: Online- both horrible games built on hype. Also very bandwaggony games.
Rift, Age of Conan, and Tera also went F2P, however all were also out for a good while before that happened. CoV/CoH also went the F2P route for a bit before closing if I remember right.. Pretty much any MMO that launched in the 5-10 year range has.. so that's at least right. However very very few, if any save for the two you listed, went F2P within the first year.. which is where this thread majorly jumps the gun. Add to that Zeni doesn't seem keen on the F2P idea and I don't see it happening within the next few months.
To add to the list of old games that are still sub based. Ultima Online
Update: After checking, even Warhammer Online was a few years before shutting down, and it looks like the F2P version of the game never officially launched. It got shut down in open beta in 2013. So.. that leaves the only example I can think of where a game went F2P within the first year of it's release to be SWTOR.
This game reminds me so much of AoC. I loved that game. At the time it was visually the best looking, had a great combat system-very inovative and so much history and lore to push the game way ahead of others I thought. While it was a very adult themed game and catered to a different play style I loved it.
Then I left the noobie island and it was completely underwhelming. Zones were beautiful but not enough quests or some were bugged. Many of the instances did not work. The guild city battles were not there. The list goes on and on which reminds me more and more each day that ESO is exactly like that.
So many people love ESO and what its potential could be, should be but will never achieve. I am not sure when F2P will capture this game but when it does many many more will leave. Sad thought about a franchise I dearly appreciate.
Bethesda! You are our only hope!1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭To those nit picking about how long other MMOs have taken to go F2P, this is a different era of MMORPG. Things move more quickly. People are more open to F2P games and there's more data proving the financial benefits of doing so for struggling P2P games.1 -
bean19✭✭✭
If the game was F2P then these are the things I'd be willing to pay real money to buy:
1. High quality Aspect Runestones - Rekuta 10 for $5, the Orange ones (Kuta?) 10 for $10.
2. Super fast mounts with different skins/animations.
3. Vanity disguises (particularly if they have sexy ones that are sexy on both males/females).
4. New content access - Generally, I think putting content on a paywall is a bad idea, but if it is done as major expansions where there is clearly a ton of new content, then I'm okay with it so long as it is not group dependent. I've learned to never pay for content that is for groups that is also behind a paywall.
5. Xp/VP Boosts - If I could buy 7 days of double VP for $10, I'd buy it RIGHT NOW. 3 days could be $5.
6. "Heirloom" Gear - Basically items that improve as you level so that you always have a superior (blue) item for whatever level you are at. They would need replacement at max veteran level as they would not be as good as purples/oranges, but would eliminate gear-grinding for alts. Only weapons available in the cash-store. Armor slot pieces would be added as crafting recipes available to high level crafters but would require learning a new "Heirloom" trait (this is the other downside of Heirloom gear. . . as they'd have their trait slot taken by "Heirloom"). Gear with the Heirloom traits would drop from max level trial and dungeon bosses as would the reagent used to craft them.
7. New Character Classes - This is a huge one that would bring in major revenue - especially if the class is fun and powerful.
8. Followers - Healer pets, tank pets, or dps pets. This is something that Neverwinter got right to some degree (their dps pets are ridiculously bad, their healer pets are only somewhat useful as you tend to need either a good healer or no healer, but their tank pets are solid). Having a pet/hireling to level up is a lot of fun. Also, for really outstanding ones, people will pay $20-40.
9. Battlegrounds in an expansion - With ESO, I really like PvP, but I hate the running around in RvR and the way that the biggest rewards are for following the zerg. It was really neat once upon a time to take a castle with a huge army in an MMO, but now I've done it a few thousand times in DAoC, Warhammer, and GW2, so it's just unbalanced PvP to me. (Obviously, YMMV and more power to you guys who love it. I'm glad it is in the game for you), but I would LOVE battlegrounds. I love objective-based, time-limited, battlegrounds with even teams. I think they are a ton of fun and a really great way to break up the monotony of solo PvE while doing character progression. If the game goes F2P, I'd absolutely by expansions that added this. . . I'd really want everyone to have access to it so that the queues would fill quickly though, so one of the reasons I hope you don't go F2P is that I really, really want battlegrounds in ESO and I want them without a paywall. Maybe what you could sell is double xp/vp boosts for battlegrounds. Then it wouldn't be just a one-time purchase AND you could encourage people to play these more by making it a really fast advancement rate with the boost.
Anyway, I don't hate F2P games like many users. In fact, they are often brilliant and I often spend much more than $15/month on them. . . usually on things that condense my experience (boosts, movement speed buffs (mounts), etc., heirloom gear) so I spend the money more quickly than I otherwise would, but I'm also "done" with the game more quickly, so it balances out. If they do a good job adding new classes to the game that play differently and feel powerful, then they can really get me to spend. I'm probably considered a "whale" though I try to not spend more than $50/month on any F2P game I'm enjoying. . . my thinking on this is that I'd pay that much for a single date night or for a single player RPG that I spent as much time playing.1 -
I tend to not play anything on an f2p basis. I'll still pay a sub fee if that is possible. That will prevent me from spending even more money than a sub fee just unlocking the ability to get the content I want to play, like pvp and dungeons, using market places, etc, which is the scam at the heart of many f2p models out there. See, f2p really isn't free at all -- it's a business model that is incorrectly named in an effort to fool the masses into thinking they don't have to pay out the rear for almost everything (SWTOR is a prime example of this trend). Also, I am an achievement hunter. When a company ties their achievements into buying crap with real money, I'm out (like Rift has done with the seasonal stuff). So basically, in my opinion (and yeah I know they're like a certain body part), f2p stinks and would ruin a good game, albeit one with lots of bugs that need to be fixed still. About the only semi-decent thing going f2p does for a game is put the gold sellers at a disadvantage. It doesn't kill them, but it does put their business on life support so to speak. Microtransactions are the devil to me. On the other hand, as Maverick827 said, they have saved some struggling MMOs. It's just not an option I'll ever choose to use if I can do otherwise. Therefore, my hope would be that if ESO were ever to choose to go 'f2p', that they would still leave a subscription based option in as well.2 -
yelloweyedemon✭✭✭If the game was F2P then these are the things I'd be willing to pay real money to buy:
1. High quality Aspect Runestones - Rekuta 10 for $5, the Orange ones (Kuta?) 10 for $10.
2. Super fast mounts with different skins/animations.
3. Vanity disguises (particularly if they have sexy ones that are sexy on both males/females).
4. New content access - Generally, I think putting content on a paywall is a bad idea, but if it is done as major expansions where there is clearly a ton of new content, then I'm okay with it so long as it is not group dependent. I've learned to never pay for content that is for groups that is also behind a paywall.
5. Xp/VP Boosts - If I could buy 7 days of double VP for $10, I'd buy it RIGHT NOW. 3 days could be $5.
6. "Heirloom" Gear - Basically items that improve as you level so that you always have a superior (blue) item for whatever level you are at. They would need replacement at max veteran level as they would not be as good as purples/oranges, but would eliminate gear-grinding for alts. Only weapons available in the cash-store. Armor slot pieces would be added as crafting recipes available to high level crafters but would require learning a new "Heirloom" trait (this is the other downside of Heirloom gear. . . as they'd have their trait slot taken by "Heirloom"). Gear with the Heirloom traits would drop from max level trial and dungeon bosses as would the reagent used to craft them.
7. New Character Classes - This is a huge one that would bring in major revenue - especially if the class is fun and powerful.
8. Followers - Healer pets, tank pets, or dps pets. This is something that Neverwinter got right to some degree (their dps pets are ridiculously bad, their healer pets are only somewhat useful as you tend to need either a good healer or no healer, but their tank pets are solid). Having a pet/hireling to level up is a lot of fun. Also, for really outstanding ones, people will pay $20-40.
9. Battlegrounds in an expansion - With ESO, I really like PvP, but I hate the running around in RvR and the way that the biggest rewards are for following the zerg. It was really neat once upon a time to take a castle with a huge army in an MMO, but now I've done it a few thousand times in DAoC, Warhammer, and GW2, so it's just unbalanced PvP to me. (Obviously, YMMV and more power to you guys who love it. I'm glad it is in the game for you), but I would LOVE battlegrounds. I love objective-based, time-limited, battlegrounds with even teams. I think they are a ton of fun and a really great way to break up the monotony of solo PvE while doing character progression. If the game goes F2P, I'd absolutely by expansions that added this. . . I'd really want everyone to have access to it so that the queues would fill quickly though, so one of the reasons I hope you don't go F2P is that I really, really want battlegrounds in ESO and I want them without a paywall. Maybe what you could sell is double xp/vp boosts for battlegrounds. Then it wouldn't be just a one-time purchase AND you could encourage people to play these more by making it a really fast advancement rate with the boost.
Anyway, I don't hate F2P games like many users. In fact, they are often brilliant and I often spend much more than $15/month on them. . . usually on things that condense my experience (boosts, movement speed buffs (mounts), etc., heirloom gear) so I spend the money more quickly than I otherwise would, but I'm also "done" with the game more quickly, so it balances out. If they do a good job adding new classes to the game that play differently and feel powerful, then they can really get me to spend. I'm probably considered a "whale" though I try to not spend more than $50/month on any F2P game I'm enjoying. . . my thinking on this is that I'd pay that much for a single date night or for a single player RPG that I spent as much time playing.
You could have just said " I hate working in-game to get all the cool stuff so I'd rather pay for them with real money, even though I don't care about the fact that I'm destroying the game for everyone else"6 -
Blade_07✭✭✭✭Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Actually Eve Online hasn't gone f2p and they just hit 11 years.
Also Dark Age of Camelot, hitting 13+ years old is not f2p or p2w- but the poster will conclude they are out of his 5-10 year range. Only 2 known games went F2P- Sw:ToR and War: Online- both horrible games built on hype. Also very bandwaggony games.
Aion went F2P and its actually a very nice looking game that was done well. Would still be playing it but its heavy PvP based and I HATE PvP in an MMORPG!
“Man can live about forty days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope.”1 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maverick827 wrote: »To those nit picking about how long other MMOs have taken to go F2P, this is a different era of MMORPG. Things move more quickly. People are more open to F2P games and there's more data proving the financial benefits of doing so for struggling P2P games.
Not so sure they're "more open to F2P games". Rather, I think there's a core player base that is "catching on to them".
I'm sure they'll remain quite profitable for certain types of games that cater to certain types of players, but there is a growing number of regular MMO players that are coming to the decision that F2P is a cancer when it comes to the long term viability of a game, and won't stay around when that model is adopted.
For these more discriminating, loyal and potentially long term subscribers, F2P has become a line in the sand they won't cross.
Edited by daneyulebub17_ESO on June 4, 2014 8:32PMThis message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
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Please print this email and keep it for your records.3 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem with trying to imagine this game as Free2Play, is that there is nothing to pay for.
Buffs, none in the game really.
EXP boosts, don't exist in this game.
Potions, the Q wheel limits the desirability of potions.
Materials, Ok, buying these would work, but game is extremely playable without crafting.
Gear, Ok, you could do a shop for these, but buying gear would destroy the game.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Blade_07✭✭✭✭yelloweyedemon wrote: »I won't care I will stop playing. F2P is a lie. Once the game goes "free", you have to pay 5 times the amount of a subscription, to get all the benefits you can aquire.
For those who are not familiar with f2p games, it goes like this:
1: Game goes f2p and an online store is created. Starting by selling services, and cosmetics.
2: Online sales happen every now and then with items on discount.
3: The cosmetics expand into all cosmetic kind of stuff (armour, horses etc) along with obvious lore-breaking appearances. (schoolgirl outfits etc)
4: Now that every single low level noob with a credit card is looking like he is vet 12 with 1728346 hours playtime (appearance-wise), p2w items are introduced on store.
5: Everyone who wants to stay competitive is forced to buy the store stuff or quit the game.
Yups, Aion is a perfect example of that! F2P but you MUST pay to win and also another thing is that it opens the flood gates to gold sellers. Think its bad now, you aint seen nothing yet!!!
“Man can live about forty days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope.”1 -
MaxBat✭✭✭Add one more to the great exodus if TESO goes F2P.
Really, why would someone even start a thread like this? Do you really believe things will improve if TESO goes F2P? No."Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."
Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...2 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »How would you like them to approach it?
If it can't be fixed with duct tape, then you're not using enough duct tape.3 -
TheBucket✭✭✭✭Add one more to the great exodus if TESO goes F2P.
Really, why would someone even start a thread like this? Do you really believe things will improve if TESO goes F2P? No.
It was a bad troll attempt from an angry brat.William Reignes
Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)4 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Actually Eve Online hasn't gone f2p and they just hit 11 years.
Also Dark Age of Camelot, hitting 13+ years old is not f2p or p2w- but the poster will conclude they are out of his 5-10 year range. Only 2 known games went F2P- Sw:ToR and War: Online- both horrible games built on hype. Also very bandwaggony games.
Rift, Age of Conan, and Tera also went F2P, however all were also out for a good while before that happened. CoV/CoH also went the F2P route for a bit before closing if I remember right.. Pretty much any MMO that launched in the 5-10 year range has.. so that's at least right. However very very few, if any save for the two you listed, went F2P within the first year.. which is where this thread majorly jumps the gun. Add to that Zeni doesn't seem keen on the F2P idea and I don't see it happening within the next few months.
To add to the list of old games that are still sub based. Ultima Online
Update: After checking, even Warhammer Online was a few years before shutting down, and it looks like the F2P version of the game never officially launched. It got shut down in open beta in 2013. So.. that leaves the only example I can think of where a game went F2P within the first year of it's release to be SWTOR.
Lotr and aion are ftp.
In so e ways wow is. Buy a blizard game they give 6 to 12 month wow free. Basicily ftp. They did that with diablo 3
Did they go F2P within the first year of release though? I believe LotR was around 3 years before it added a F2P model. Aion also lasted 2 or so years prior to going F2P. SWTOR still stands alone as the only MMO to go F2P within a year of launch.
That's kinda my whole point. Yeah, most the MMOs that have launched recently did go F2P.. but not as soon as people seem to think they did. It's a very rare occurrence for one to go F2P within the first year or two. Most of them were up 2-3 years before F2P started up. So even if we assume that ESO will eventually go the F2P route, as I do tend to assume for all MMOs... the likelihood that it's going to happen within a year of release is extremely low.
STO, TSW, the first FFXIV all went f2p before a year as well.0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Huh, this thread has gone from flame bait by an OP upset over potential changes to DKs to a serious discussion of the merit of a F2P system thanks to one title edit by a mod.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●1 -
Viblo✭✭✭Sadly, I know a lot of people who have quit and are waiting for F2P to return.
You know a lot of people? Name them...
p.s. A person that says $15 a month is too much but eagerly awaits for the same game to go f2p so they can return is not a person that hates the game. It's a person that is poor. If the game is bad, it is bad for $15 and still bad when it goes f2p.Edited by Viblo on June 4, 2014 9:00PM3 -
Anilahation✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Why? It's doing far worse than SWTOR was when it had to go F2P (and then it started making way more money when it did). I'm not saying the game will be free to play tomorrow, but after six more months of Zenimax's poor patches, balancing, big fixes, and customer support...ESO will never be str8 F2P. It may end up like GW2, where you buy the game, and then theres no sub. But I doubt ESO will turn into a full on free game where u can download and play at no cost.
Swtor was published by EA and is a pure WoW clone.
ESO is a niche player base of AvA players and the closest up to date game of DAOC.
If it goes f2p I'm done I can't play horrible f2p MMO I have tried and I can't stomach it.
Also Swtor went f2p at 500k subs... They weren't forced f2p they just choose to because EA is a scum bag4 -
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MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭F2P = time to stop playing, in my case.
So sick of the free to pay model.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
OneForSorrow✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind seeing it go like GW2 where you buy the game and its expansions full priced but pay no sub fee.
However, I would like to mention something: Going F2P is not a sign of weakness or struggle. It's a sign of adaptation to the current gaming market. I work in this industry and currently I work for a company that makes free content and gets money from microtransactions. This is a very successful marketing strategy in today's day and age. World of WarCraft is forgiven for being P2P because of its age, same as EVE. People who have been playing a long time are just used to the sub fee. It comes each month, like your phone bill. Newer games have harder times making this idea fly. Personally, I feel like if a game has free content and keeps the payment things non-gameplay oriented (in other words, playable classes and races are free; mounts, dyes, pets, etc can be bought) then that is fine. And, yes, people do pay for the silly things. I've bought more pets for WoW over the years than I care to admit.
(The trick with designing a game to be good and F2P is simple (though sometimes overlooked)-Make a good game and make the things that are purchased with real money things a person would enjoy spending money on. Keeping content like races, zones or classes behind a paywall tends to annoy people. It may provide good money up front but eventually players start to feel extorted and bitter... But those mounts and pets do not effect gameplay and, frankly, are a joy to see. And have. )
All of that said would I rather it stay P2P? Yeah, I would. I generally prefer games when they are P2P. I'm just saying that going F2P is the not quite the sign of failure a lot of people seem to think it is.Edited by OneForSorrow on June 4, 2014 9:39PMPC NA. Various alts, trying to find a main, I have no idea what I'm doing.3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »the financial benefits of doing so for struggling P2P games.
They can finance themselves without my money if they go f2p.
2 -
I think I'll be happy to play this game while paying the subscription fee this game deserves.0 -
Covyn✭✭✭I'd like to see a refund in my bank account if they go F2P Gyxx (VR1) Templar
Quidd (VR5) Nightblade
Kadzien (15) Sorc
Covyn (VR12) DragonKnight (now spends his days crafting)0 -
The game never stops improving. You will be sad when you come back after you realize there is no better alternative out there.
I plan to stick here even if I don't play at all, just because this company is awesome.Angel.1 -
Lalai✭✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Actually Eve Online hasn't gone f2p and they just hit 11 years.
Also Dark Age of Camelot, hitting 13+ years old is not f2p or p2w- but the poster will conclude they are out of his 5-10 year range. Only 2 known games went F2P- Sw:ToR and War: Online- both horrible games built on hype. Also very bandwaggony games.
Rift, Age of Conan, and Tera also went F2P, however all were also out for a good while before that happened. CoV/CoH also went the F2P route for a bit before closing if I remember right.. Pretty much any MMO that launched in the 5-10 year range has.. so that's at least right. However very very few, if any save for the two you listed, went F2P within the first year.. which is where this thread majorly jumps the gun. Add to that Zeni doesn't seem keen on the F2P idea and I don't see it happening within the next few months.
To add to the list of old games that are still sub based. Ultima Online
Update: After checking, even Warhammer Online was a few years before shutting down, and it looks like the F2P version of the game never officially launched. It got shut down in open beta in 2013. So.. that leaves the only example I can think of where a game went F2P within the first year of it's release to be SWTOR.
Lotr and aion are ftp.
In so e ways wow is. Buy a blizard game they give 6 to 12 month wow free. Basicily ftp. They did that with diablo 3
Did they go F2P within the first year of release though? I believe LotR was around 3 years before it added a F2P model. Aion also lasted 2 or so years prior to going F2P. SWTOR still stands alone as the only MMO to go F2P within a year of launch.
That's kinda my whole point. Yeah, most the MMOs that have launched recently did go F2P.. but not as soon as people seem to think they did. It's a very rare occurrence for one to go F2P within the first year or two. Most of them were up 2-3 years before F2P started up. So even if we assume that ESO will eventually go the F2P route, as I do tend to assume for all MMOs... the likelihood that it's going to happen within a year of release is extremely low.
STO, TSW, the first FFXIV all went f2p before a year as well.
I don't know what STO is for sure (assuming Star Trek Online).. FFXIV did not go F2P.. when it was announced they were going to shut down the servers and relaunch they let a few people who had previously purchased and subscribed to the game have a few months as an apology. STO was up as a sub for two years prior to F2P (February 2010-January 2012).
So, we have SWTOR and TSW... two examples. If someone is gonna claim that ESO is going that way cause the majority of MMOs released in the past 5-10 years have gone that way.. then they should probably make sure the majority have actually gone that way as fast as they're claiming ESO is going to... since market history seems to be the basis for it.Edited by Lalai on June 4, 2014 10:31PMFisher extraordinaire!
Send me your worms, crawlers, guts, and insect parts.
Templar Healer
Daggerfall Covenant, NA0 -
GeeYouWhy✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
STO, TSW, the first FFXIV all went f2p before a year as well.
STO launched in May of 2010 and went F2P in Jan 2012 so not in the first year.
Edited by GeeYouWhy on June 4, 2014 9:58PMKonrandir, Vampire Sorcerer0
