The naming and shaming moderation policy on these boards. Do you agree/disagree?

Wintersage · June 2014

Honestly, I think over-moderation is a problem. I think it's always a problem. And that includes the naming/shaming policy.

Guess I'm biased. I've spent far too much time in the Eve forums.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

Wintersage wrote: »

Honestly, I think over-moderation is a problem. I think it's always a problem. And that includes the naming/shaming policy.

Guess I'm biased. I've spent far too much time in the Eve forums.

Actually bro, I agree 100%. I mean... all the people in the top of this thread have valid points, but on pure opinion and devilish desire? I say let the cards fall where they may. I'd love to see anything go.

But ya know what? If they did it'd just run people like that off and we'd be left with 4chan. If the others would stay it would be quite diverse and fun. And vulgarity and flaming never bothered me. I never take anything online seriously anyway. I completely separate online from RL.

zgrssd · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

Personally I disagree with the policy. However, I think as long as you are not being totally vulgar and inflammatory to the person in your exposition, you are fine. One of the good things about our society is how we are able to moderate others by calling them out for their BS. I.E. that racist NBA owner that got called out. I'm not mentioning his name because I bet they'll even mod that lol.

If somebody violates the rules you report him. Calling him out on it will have no constructive effect. Ever.

In fact there is guaranteed to be no positive effect. If you wanted a constructive discussion, calling somebody out by name is the worst possible way to start.
And if you do not want to start a constructive discussion, you should not post at all.
Also, this is Forum is not a Democracy. It is hosted by Zenimax, we are only guests that are allowed to be here.
If we don't follow the rules, they have all the right to kick us off. Especially since we have no rights to be even here.

Now my final word in case somebody tries the old Freedom of Speech arugment, provided by xkcd:

GrimCyclone · June 2014

@zgrssd You posted that same xkcd scum on the Profanity topic yesterday too.
So I too shall respond as I did in kind. I will never stop fighting people like you.

zgrssd wrote: »

SCSA wrote: »

To start it off, my apologies to all the people whom I have possibly offended in the zone chat by dropping a f-bomb. Even got in a fun little profanity filled skype chat. I know this chain of events isn't worthy of a topic, but the real matter on hands is.

How does this profanity in this game work? Since it's an M (for mature) labeled game, are we allowed to say 'damn' every once in a while? I'm curious.

The public street is labeled "M" because mature themes might happen there. Are you allowed to swear like a sailor there?

If you really want to swear, do it verbally without microphone on.
If you use /zone, guild or group channel you want others to hear you. You choose to risk offending others with it when you invest time to write it down. In the grown up world you suffer the consequences for your choices.
I am not peoples emotional garbage dump. If they try to make me to one, we have a disagreement. Your weapons are words, mine are ignore and report.

And before anybody tries the old fallacy: Freedom of Speech offers no protection. Your FOS is lower then my right to be not insulted and not annoyed by you.
And frankly it never applied to this game or the forum in the first place:
http://xkcd.com/1357/

That xkcd comic you linked is the exact misunderstanding of the social and civil implications of that law that other people of a CERTAIN view always tend to use. What you truly want is censorship. You only want that to be said which you find agreeable. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoA8wBvIUAAG-Xn.jpg:large

YOU are my mortal enemy. I will never stop fighting people like you.

"He tasks me.... He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsYT8YHL-R0

DireKit · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

lol oh that gives me an idea. You know what would be funny? Is if we could subscribe to system messages for bot EXECUTION! Or banned player execution. They'd give us a message about when it was going to happen, we could warp to "The Isle of Judgment." And a GM or GM npc could do this ceremonial smiting of the player and they would be smashed into dust or something entertaining. I'm not one for gore, but smashing someone into divine bits or something would be cool. Like a holy scattering of particles.

So RuneScape's Botany Bay?

zgrssd · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

@zgrssd You posted that same xkcd scum on the Profanity topic yesterday too.
So I too shall respond as I did in kind. I will never stop fighting people like you.

Odd. You are really just a minor annoyance for me.

If you throw little rocks at me, I don't throw rocks back. I throw nukes (report).
You either stop throwing rocks, or you stop being able to throw rocks (ban).
In any case once you stop making yoruself a problem of mine, we have no problem at all.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

(Kingly voice) From henceforth @zgrssd shall now be called "Khaaaaan!!!"
That's right. I get to be Khan and Kirk interchangeably. *sticks tongue out*

GrimCyclone · June 2014

DireKit wrote: »

GrimCyclone wrote: »

lol oh that gives me an idea. You know what would be funny? Is if we could subscribe to system messages for bot EXECUTION! Or banned player execution. They'd give us a message about when it was going to happen, we could warp to "The Isle of Judgment." And a GM or GM npc could do this ceremonial smiting of the player and they would be smashed into dust or something entertaining. I'm not one for gore, but smashing someone into divine bits or something would be cool. Like a holy scattering of particles.

So RuneScape's Botany Bay?

lol

GrimCyclone · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

GrimCyclone wrote: »

@zgrssd You posted that same xkcd scum on the Profanity topic yesterday too.
So I too shall respond as I did in kind. I will never stop fighting people like you.

Odd. You are really just a minor annoyance for me.

If you throw little rocks at me, I don't throw rocks back. I throw nukes (report).
You either stop throwing rocks, or you stop being able to throw rocks (ban).
In any case once you stop making yoruself a problem of mine, we have no problem at all.

You love hearing yourself speak, but you're shocked and amazed to see anyone else share a different opinion.

zgrssd · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

GrimCyclone wrote: »

@zgrssd You posted that same xkcd scum on the Profanity topic yesterday too.
So I too shall respond as I did in kind. I will never stop fighting people like you.

Odd. You are really just a minor annoyance for me.

If you throw little rocks at me, I don't throw rocks back. I throw nukes (report).
You either stop throwing rocks, or you stop being able to throw rocks (ban).
In any case once you stop making yoruself a problem of mine, we have no problem at all.

You love hearing yourself speak, but you're shocked and amazed to see anyone else share a different opinion.

You too, apparently.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

You too, apparently.

The difference is, you think your opinion is superior to everyone elses.
I'm humble. I don't try to speak for the majority.
If you had it your way, your opinion would be law in spite of the others.
I would rather the others have it their way.

YourNameHere · June 2014

Even if you think you are doing it because you saw a person doing something wrong, there is always 2 sides to a story.

Forum rules, and that's how it is sadly. Just how Zen has a rule on not making 'goodbye' posts which are locked. If you don't agree to it, then don't come to the forums.

JessieColt · June 2014

Naming and Shaming serves no legitimate purpose and should never be done.

If you honestly believe that the behavior or actions that another player engages in, then your recourse is to notify Zenimax through the proper reporting channels.

You do not work for the game company, and you are not privy to discussions and decisions behind the scenes regarding what is or is not a violation of the rules when it comes to any actions that someone does in game.

While all of us can guess, based on previous responses from ZeniMax, regarding what is and isn't permitted in the game, none of us work for the company, and therefore none of us should be in the business of trying to name and shame anyone else who plays the game.

Naming and Shaming would only serve to devolve the forums into a flame fest based on personal opinions and not rules.

Eventually people who are butthurt by someone else for some perceived breach of common courtesy would end up on the forums trying to rally a bunch of strangers to agree with them regarding what happened.

So no, Naming and Shaming does not belong on the official game forums.

ZOS_AlanG · June 2014

Hi guys, this thread is starting to slide off topic. We don't have a problem with the rules being described generally, providing there's no examples used or implied, but they need to stay civil, constructive, and on topic.

The primary reason for the rule against naming and shaming is because we do not discuss violations like this publicly, so we ask that the community do the same. We have report functions in-game and here on the forums to facilitate private discussions about such problems, which allows the community to inform us of issues, and allows us to discuss the matter with potential offenders one-on-one.

It certainly doesn't help that most naming and shaming posts are also inflammatory, or lead to unconstructive and inflammatory discussions.

RubyTigress · June 2014

Absolutely agree with no naming and shaming on these forums.

Even folks who are in good faith certain they're seeing exploits or bad behavior can be mistaken.

Report, and move on.

RubyTigress · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

The difference is, you think your opinion is superior to everyone elses.
I'm humble. I don't try to speak for the majority.
If you had it your way, your opinion would be law in spite of the others.
I would rather the others have it their way.

Yeah, dude, you just announced your eternal enmity another poster like you were stuck in the Wheel of Time series.

"Humble" isn't the first descriptive word that came to my mind, at least.

Cogo · June 2014

Its both good and bad. In Everquest, we have our own server forums that worked awesome to point out what moron sold/bought an account, and in EQ its obvious if the player isnt who it supposed to be.

However, I dont think that works here.

Also, if the majority of the CURRENT ESO forum users would be allowed, then Cogo would be burned at the stake and never be allowed to post a single post every day.....so I guess I am happy for the freedome :-)

GrimCyclone · June 2014

Yeah I was thinking about EQFlames in the shower. I never used it, but it sure was popular at a time. I'm not sure if that's what it was used for. I never used to be a forum person. It slowly kinda crept into me as I got older. Even now it's the kinda thing where I do it a lot for a month or two then stop for a couple years.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

You too, apparently.

The difference is, you think your opinion is superior to everyone elses.
I'm humble. I don't try to speak for the majority.
If you had it your way, your opinion would be law in spite of the others.
I would rather the others have it their way.

Um, don't take this the wrong way, but humble people don't realise they are humble.

Not saying you are arrogant or think you're superior, but humble probably isn't the right word. May I suggest in future you say you're modest.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

@AlexDougherty I used humility because it is a foundational quality that would thwart the development of an arrogant mind that thought their opinion was greater than the rest.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

@AlexDougherty I used humility because it is a foundational quality that would thwart the development of an arrogant mind that thought their opinion was greater than the rest.

This sentence is delicious. If I lived on irony, I could eat this and be full for days.

This thread is a prime example of why naming-and-shaming policies exist. Players who make abrasive/ridiculous posts very rarely believe themselves to be abrasive/ridiculous.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

Well say whatever. I fail to see how my topic is abrasive or ridiculous. Those are subjective. After all, enough people are commenting. And even if I admitted they are abrasive, which I would easily, it wouldn't bother me to.

I may value the opinions of you and everyone else, that is why I made the thread. But, don't believe for a second that those opinions are going to make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. We're merely chatting an online forum. At the end of the day, this is entertainment, folks.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

@AlexDougherty I used humility because it is a foundational quality that would thwart the development of an arrogant mind that thought their opinion was greater than the rest.

@GrimCyclone‌
I appreciate that, but what I was trying gently to tell you is you've got your definitions slightly wrong.

Humility is the view that your opinion is minor and not important.
Modesty is the view that your opinion is no better than anyone elses.

I suggest again that you mean you are a modest person.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

@AlexDougherty‌ Yeah I see what you're saying.

It's a church thing. Humility is often connotative with what I was referring too. But to be fair, the definitions online kinda use modesty as a synonym.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humility

The antonym is pride/arrogance.
That's kinda what I was getting at I guess.

Culturally where I live people use modest more with clothing.

Polychrome · June 2014

The problem with "naming and shaming" is that it is an Alinsky tactic, specifically intended to wreck another person's reputation in order to make yourself look like the hero. Simply put, it's scapegoating and witch-hunting to silence your "enemies".

Frankly, we have enough of this fascist political crap in the media. We do not need it in a game's public forum. If anything, I'm glad that most people here are willing to say "no" to the idea. Most official game forums I've seen discourage the tactic.

If you want to "call someone out" on something, settle it between you and that other person without resorting to sleazy tactics. You can talk to them in whatever channel they communicated with you in. If they don't answer? Report them. Move on with your life. It'd be a different story if they were on the forum bragging about how they slighted you, but I seriously doubt that's the case most of the time. People like that are notorious before the subject even hits a game forum.

Gisgo · June 2014

Ok just a couple of random quotes from this guy:

GrimCyclone wrote: »

And if you really want me to get intellectual and argue, I'll embarrass you right out of this thread. The premise is set up against me, but don't try and provoke me.

GrimCyclone wrote: »

YOU are my mortal enemy. I will never stop fighting people like you.

Man, you have issues.
Now go and report me for personally attacking you, but then seek for help, you are losing your mind.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

I wouldn't report you. I seem to have gotten to you though. Maybe we should go out for some ice cream. My treat?

Gisgo · June 2014

No thanks, i already know enough crazy people.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

Even with cherries on top?

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO · June 2014

I have a suggestion, why doesn't the OP spend 4 or 5 years developing a AAA MMO and then launch it and an associated forum without such a policy and then come back and let us know how that works out for him.

As I see it, this is ZOS's playground, if you don't like the rules, go somewhere that you do. That way you are voting with your money and not just stirring the pot.