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People that feedback for nerfs must be odd people. For PVP is one thing, but PVE? Who are they?
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driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
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The strenght of the PVE mobs is standardized. Some builds find it easy to quest through content, others have a hard time. Additionally, some players find the fights that are too hard fustrating, whiles others actually want more challenge. So they not only need to find a balance of difficulty for PVE that will make most of the players happy. They also need the advantages/disavantages of classes, armor, and weapons to be on par with one another. Otherwise you have easy mode builds while certain classes can't progress unless using specific types of gear.GrimCyclone wrote: »Sure, you're getting owned in PVP so you want someone nerfed so it's a fair fight. But PVE is every man on his own. Even worse it's every man on his own or grouped with you. So your nerfs can only hurt. What difference does it make to you what some other guy can do? He's barely effecting you. He can't steal your xp. He can't even steal your drop. Stop being bitter. Stop trying to take people's fun away.
Hence the dance of buffs and nerfs to both player and mob.
Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »Really? Because all I see in this thread is people disagreeing with you.
Have you gotten your eyes checked recently? You're not on any hallucinogenic side effect medication?
I am sure you can count the "agree", "insightful" and "lol" we got and do the math, if that is what matters to you.
Edited by Gisgo on June 2, 2014 7:57PM1 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
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I would prefer a somewhat unbalanced game instead of a bland game. Nerfing everything into the ground for balance is just bad. The problem with NB is that they can't get enough dps with most builds due to either broken or to weak skills. If they will nerf Sorc and DK skills to the level of the average NB builds what you will get is a generally balanced bland POS which no one will play. No synergies would work ,no one would be able to do something cool you could just play all your equally gimped characters against monsters with wonky damage outputs.
I also hate nerfs since they are never done in a moderate or experimental way. I have never seen a nerf that was say 10% to see what happen and maybe we will come back later. It is always a cut in half or a doubling of the cool down or some other arbitrary choice of nice round number or cool fraction.
The dreaded nerfed for PVP balance is even worse. There was no freaking balancing reason for a NB not to be able to one shot a normal trash mob in PVE with an overcharged ultimate from stealth. None .Edited by PBpsy on June 2, 2014 8:03PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)3 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭I would prefer a somewhat unbalanced game instead of a bland game. Nerfing everything into the ground for balance is just bad. The problem with NB is that they can't get enough dps with most builds due to either broken or to weak skills. If they will nerf Sorc and DK skills to the level of the average NB builds what you will get is a generally balanced bland POS which no one will play. No synergies would work ,no one would be able to do something cool you could just play all your equally gimped characters against monsters with wonky damage outputs.
I also hate nerfs since they are never done in a moderate or experimental way. I have never seen a nerf that was say 10% to see what happen and maybe we will come back later. It is allays a cut in half or a doubling of the cool down or some other arbitrary choice of nice round number or cool fraction.
So you think its fine for a solo player to clear content designed for a group of 12 adventurers?
Should we buff everyone else to be able to do so?
Just answer yes or no, please.
Edited by Gisgo on June 2, 2014 8:00PM1 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭Ok since you're so passionate about this, I will nominate you the guilty party of the topic, Gisgo.Official Declaration:
If you ever wondered who the person was that is getting the developers to nerf your class because they reported you due to being jealous or envious of your abilities, here is the face of your accuser.
So it is written. So it shall be.2 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭Uh sounds like a personal attack.
Short on arguments, guys?
That was too easy.Edited by Gisgo on June 2, 2014 8:04PM0 -
Hymzir✭✭✭✭✭
✭For what's it worth I totally agree on Gisgo's point of view - the nerfs are not just because PVP balance issues, the nerfs happen because people are soloing PVE group content.
The devs intended group content to be challenging to groups, not to solos. Therefore they either had to nerf OP stuff or boost everyone else and then boost the mobs too so that even with the overpowered abilities, people could not just solo through them
And then we would have lots of people complaining about the increased difficulty. And re-balancing everything to match OP classes is a lot harder (and easier to botch) than just nerfing OP stuff to more reasonable levels.
Also do note, that lot of pve:rs are also complaining about the class balance, since the OP classes dominate trials and get much better times and thus better rewards, and can farm dungeons with more ease and get more loot and stuff, and generally have a blast playing the game, where as the weaker classes struggle to even clear the VR zones. So it's not just pvp:rs complaining about how the OP classes keep murderising them - although there is a lot of that too, since it is happening all the time in Cyro.1 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would prefer a somewhat unbalanced game instead of a bland game. Nerfing everything into the ground for balance is just bad. The problem with NB is that they can't get enough dps with most builds due to either broken or to weak skills. If they will nerf Sorc and DK skills to the level of the average NB builds what you will get is a generally balanced bland POS which no one will play. No synergies would work ,no one would be able to do something cool you could just play all your equally gimped characters against monsters with wonky damage outputs.
I also hate nerfs since they are never done in a moderate or experimental way. I have never seen a nerf that was say 10% to see what happen and maybe we will come back later. It is allays a cut in half or a doubling of the cool down or some other arbitrary choice of nice round number or cool fraction.
So you think its fine for a solo player to clear content designed for a group of 12 adventurers?
Should we buff everyone else to be able to do so?
Just answer yes or no, please.
No I will not give you a damn yes or no answer. The issue is much more complicated than that even if you pretend it isn't.
First I am pretty sure no one completed 12 player content solo they just survived parts of it and put them on youtube and made a big fuss about it. The Craglorn quests actually require a team to do since you can't unlock the areas without one. The only thing left is 4 man delves,
This is 4 player content and I would expect someone really good to be able to do it and I wouldn't mind it. The truth is that for most part their 4 man Craglorn bosses are much more the problem than unbalanced skills. The fact is that for the most part they are so stupid that the only thing required is to stay alive ,stay out of bad and do aoe damage to solo. Maybe if their awesome Craglorn had some more interesting mechanics people wouldn't have beaten them solo with a 3 button combination.
I beat some with a not very optimized NB build. Just circled around them and used siphoning to stay alive and gain ultimate for 5 mins. Not much of a strategy required.No matter how weak they make us their bosses still remain dumb as a barrel of argonians.
Edited by PBpsy on June 2, 2014 8:35PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭First I am pretty sure no one completed 12 player content solo they just survived parts of it and put them on youtube and made a big fuss about it. The Craglorn quests actually require a team to do since you can't unlock the areas without one. The only thing left is 4 man delves,
No offense, but get a clue. Especially if you want to discuss and be taken seriously.
DKs are soloing content designed for twelve players.
If you think this is ok and does not deserve a nerf, i really dont know what to say.
Edited by Gisgo on June 2, 2014 8:35PM2 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭Hymzir, what you're saying is fine. My only thing is... I wish they had more foresight. Regardless of whether you're right, people don't like being given something and then having it taken away from them. That's Indian giving. It upsets people.
Now people can sit here all day and say, "That's how MMOS are. Expect it."
No, I shouldn't have to. I played EQ since launch and even though it did have it's share of nerfing for classes over the years, it was NEVER like this. This is just constant scaling crap that's really aggravating people. PLUS. PLUS. EQ2 always gives you a free respec for crap like this. SPECIFICALLY for crap like this.0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭Balance is broken, regardless of whether they choose to buff or nerf abilities, something needs to be done.
To just declare that they are doing it because of PvP without actually providing evidence that it is so is rather short sighted on your part. Everything that has been "nerfed" thus far had adverse effects on both PvP and PvE that most likely weren't intended.- Vampire builds with 0 cost ultimates
- DK's pulling 20+ mobs because of unbalanced synergy. (They aren't even touching the correct skills/passives to fix this.)
- Biting Jabs/Shield Bash or any other 1 key macro ability that gets nerfed next.
- Crit based builds generating ultimate too fast because of DoTs
50% of the games base classes don't get brought to trials, unless there is absolutely no other option.
Stamina builds are vastly inferior to magicka builds and thus bow/dw/2h users get told gtfo out of trial runs, unless there is no other option.
Tanks in heavy armor are subpar to a tank wearing 7 pieces light. As a healer, I would rather have a tank in full light than full heavy because they are just as easy to heal and they are actually contributing to the DPS of the group.
The above problems are PvE problems, not PvP problems and no simple buffing/nerfing of abilities is going to fix the game's broken core.
Blame me as one of the people that said DKs need fixed/nerfed/balanced whatever. I don't care, I'm not afraid to speak the truth.
Broken game is broken.1 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭No offense, but get a clue. Especially if you want to discuss and be taken seriously.
DKs are soloing content designed for twelve players.
Make sure that isn't with hacks too. You do know about that one templar hack that's causing 7k damage shields right? There are temps just running through mobs like football players.Edited by GrimCyclone on June 2, 2014 8:36PM0 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Blame me as one of the people that said DKs need fixed/nerfed/balanced whatever. I don't care, I'm not afraid to speak the truth.
Actually, I don't care if it was about DK. It's anyone that tried to screw with NBs. NBs weren't doing anything to anyone.
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭Dude stop making up stuff to prove you are right.
There are videos of DKs soloing trials without cheating.1 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭Dude stop making up stuff to prove you are right.
There are videos of DKs soloing trials without cheating.
Read what I said. I didn't make anything up. I said make sure. Obviously you've seen "videos."
And if you really want me to get intellectual and argue, I'll embarrass you right out of this thread. The premise is set up against me, but don't try and provoke me.1 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭GrimCyclone wrote: »No offense, but get a clue. Especially if you want to discuss and be taken seriously.
DKs are soloing content designed for twelve players.
Make sure that isn't with hacks too. You do know about that one templar hack that's causing 7k damage shields right? There are temps just running through mobs like football players.
That's not a hack... that's using Blazing Shield and Solar Flare(or morphs) to create a huge damage shield followed by a huge AoE explosion.
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭GrimCyclone wrote: »And if you really want me to get intellectual and argue, I'll embarrass you right out of this thread. The premise is set up against me, but don't try and provoke me.
Omg im scared now!
Atm you are only embarassing yourself, though.
Edited by Gisgo on June 2, 2014 8:52PM0 -
captain_awesome✭✭✭GrimCyclone wrote: »Sure, you're getting owned in PVP so you want someone nerfed so it's a fair fight. But PVE is every man on his own. Even worse it's every man on his own or grouped with you. So your nerfs can only hurt. What difference does it make to you what some other guy can do? He's barely effecting you. He can't steal your xp. He can't even steal your drop. Stop being bitter. Stop trying to take people's fun away.
You know what happens when you take away people's fun? They quit and go find another game. You know what happens when they do that too much? They don't have enough subscribers to support them. You know what happens then? They go F2P to see if that's economically viable. You know what happens then? Aaaaaall the WoW type immature kids come in and the community gets turned into a mess.
So go ahead. Keep screwing with other peoples' characters. Why don't you just mind your own business and play your character. Let others play theirs. You gotta meddle dontcha? Can't just live and let live. Gotta be a totalitarian. Everyone has to share your agenda or they're evil right?!
The most ridiculous thread ever.
The game should be balanced in pve and pvp. If you come across a bug you should report it not exploit it as much as you can. If you see people farming Emperor for all their friends you should report it because its cheating and it devalues pvp.
If you see people duping items, botting pve mobs, exploiting broken skills in trials: Again! You should report it and not exploit it as much as you can. You should report it because it devalues the achievement. You should report all this because people get better gear which gives them an upper hand over other players through cheating.
You think that when the broken skill is fixed anyone is ever gonna get 9 minutes in trials again? No they will not.
It's about moral courage and integrity. Something that a lot of gamers today are sadly lacking, including the OP. It's your attitude and the attitude of others like you that destroy games. Think of all the hard work and money Zos put into this game and people like you *** all over that.
Shame on you kid. Shame...Dominion FTW.3 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭GrimCyclone wrote: »thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Blame me as one of the people that said DKs need fixed/nerfed/balanced whatever. I don't care, I'm not afraid to speak the truth.
Actually, I don't care if it was about DK. It's anyone that tried to screw with NBs. NBs weren't doing anything to anyone.
Lol, I main a Templar so I do feel your pain. However, in PvE nightblades can "permastun"(for lack of a better word) entire groups of mobs/bosses with clever use of stealth/invisibility mechanics. This is one of those PvE issues that needs to be addressed.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mist form was shattered, bolt escape should not be able to evade the nerf hammer.
Sorcs and DKs are OP. Ninja nerf them in their sleep and let them awake to the nightmare NBs and Templars have endured.
OP Sorcs and DKs, your time has come!Another OP and their delicious tears.
Please, shed more meaningless tears of woe to the delight of broken NBs and Templars.
You didn't care to help us and now you get to enjoy class balance by the negative of nerfing.
Welcome to the party!
Here you go OP, this is the guy who wants to wreck the game for everyone^1 -
NerfEverything✭✭✭✭✭PTS was private up until now. All this accomplished was the people with PTS access were the first to get to use the exploits that they didn't report when the patch went live.
On top of that, they failed to notice a 2 second global cooldown bug, along with the fact that VR1-10 mobs had their difficulty buffed up to VR12 mobs and a whole host of other problems that wouldn't have ever made it to live if the test server had been public.
Just another item on a long list of f*ckups by Zen.0 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭First I am pretty sure no one completed 12 player content solo they just survived parts of it and put them on youtube and made a big fuss about it. The Craglorn quests actually require a team to do since you can't unlock the areas without one. The only thing left is 4 man delves,
No offense, but get a clue. Especially if you want to discuss and be taken seriously.
DKs are soloing content designed for twelve players.
If you think this is ok and does not deserve a nerf, i really dont know what to say.
Show me a DK doing a complete Trial run. Killing a few packs of atranochs isn't exactly soloing trials.thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »GrimCyclone wrote: »thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Blame me as one of the people that said DKs need fixed/nerfed/balanced whatever. I don't care, I'm not afraid to speak the truth.
Actually, I don't care if it was about DK. It's anyone that tried to screw with NBs. NBs weren't doing anything to anyone.
Lol, I main a Templar so I do feel your pain. However, in PvE nightblades can "permastun"(for lack of a better word) entire groups of mobs/bosses with clever use of stealth/invisibility mechanics. This is one of those PvE issues that needs to be addressed.
Yes this is true 99.999% of NB players use that low latency invisibility trick to solo dungeons all day for the awesome rewards that we get from them. They should nerf that skill into oblivion and haphazardly change it's mechanics until invis doesn't work any more.ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭Show me a DK doing a complete Trial run. Killing a few packs of atranochs isn't exactly soloing trials.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103435/dk-solos-craglorn/p1thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Yes this is true 99.999% of NB players use that low latency invisibility trick to solo dungeons all day for the awesome rewards that we get from them. They should nerf that skill into oblivion and haphazardly change it's mechanics until invis doesn't work any more.
As for every other skill, if its really broken, it needs to be fixed. No problem.
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PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
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Nope that guy certainly didn't complete the trial. He admits he run out of res quite close to the start of that trial.Show me a DK doing a complete Trial run. Killing a few packs of atranochs isn't exactly soloing trials.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103435/dk-solos-craglorn/p1thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Yes this is true 99.999% of NB players use that low latency invisibility trick to solo dungeons all day for the awesome rewards that we get from them. They should nerf that skill into oblivion and haphazardly change it's mechanics until invis doesn't work any more.
As for every other skill, if its really broken, it needs to be fixed. No problem.
ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrimCyclone wrote: »When groups are looking specifically for sorcs and DKs while keeping out NBs and templars to clear trials you cant say "he's barely affecting you".
I'll give you that. I'll give you that. But I'd rather just buff the classes that aren't wanted as much so they're equally wanted rather than depriving someone's class experience of what it already has been. After all, that person might not even group. So that argument meant nothing to them, Gisgo. They're just left with a weakened system.
It upsets them.
You can nerf one class, pissing off the people who play it and eventually forcing them to quit. And you make a small section of the other three classes happy, because now they are more useful.
Or you can buff three classes (or in this case, two), and then go through the game rebalancing all the mobs, and in the end still pissing off a large portion of the first class because they still aren't as powerful as they once were, while the other three classes end up at the same mark they were before.
Sounds to me like, on the developer end, nerfing is the smarter choice as far as work and efficiency. Not saying what's broke don't need fixed. I am a nightblade first and foremost. Just that I'm certain that we'll see DK's and sorcerers playing at MY difficulty far quicker than we'll see nightblades and templars buffed to doing what DK's and sorcerers can do now.
Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.1 -
Ragekniv✭✭✭Mist form was shattered, bolt escape should not be able to evade the nerf hammer.
Sorcs and DKs are OP. Ninja nerf them in their sleep and let them awake to the nightmare NBs and Templars have endured.
OP Sorcs and DKs, your time has come!Another OP and their delicious tears.
Please, shed more meaningless tears of woe to the delight of broken NBs and Templars.
You didn't care to help us and now you get to enjoy class balance by the negative of nerfing.
Welcome to the party!
Here you go OP, this is the guy who wants to wreck the game for everyone^
Wow, you're so upset that you're dragging my posts from other threads to rally the other OPs?
As stated before, if your opinion mattered to me it might be hurtful.
Thanks for the chuckle 8)Edited by Ragekniv on June 2, 2014 9:38PM1 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
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Your original statement was :
People are not clearing 12 player content solo. They are just able to kill some tough monster packs solo. There isn't nothing that makes those mobs 12 player content. The 12 player content is the whole damn package and people don't complete them solo. That guys actually fails doing the 12 player content near the start.So you think its fine for a solo player to clear content designed for a group of 12 adventurers?
Should we buff everyone else to be able to do so?''
For trials the only point is clearing the damn thing anyway,
Edited by PBpsy on June 2, 2014 9:53PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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snipMist form was shattered, bolt escape should not be able to evade the nerf hammer.
Sorcs and DKs are OP. Ninja nerf them in their sleep and let them awake to the nightmare NBs and Templars have endured.
OP Sorcs and DKs, your time has come!Another OP and their delicious tears.
Please, shed more meaningless tears of woe to the delight of broken NBs and Templars.
You didn't care to help us and now you get to enjoy class balance by the negative of nerfing.
Welcome to the party!
Here you go OP, this is the guy who wants to wreck the game for everyone^
Yep this is the guy who wants to wreck the game for everyone.0