Ragekniv wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Long overdue. Good work Zeni.

Now fix the other classes.

Why was it long overdue?

Only the OP would say such a thing.

I'm not the OP, so obviously not.

NBs and Templars have been broken since Beta, where was your sympathy or solidarity?

It was...there? I have always advocated buffing classes that need it. Why do you assume otherwise?

We have been kicking rocks on the edges of the ESO sandbox waiting patiently for class balance while Sorcs and DKs have been the OP FOTM for three months!

I wouldn't say you were waiting patiently when so many of you are ejaculating over DK nerfs. That's obviously a sign of waiting impatiently.

I wish Zenimax had been pro-active in resolving class balance. Unfortunately it appears class balance will occur in the negative by nerfing.

Hopefully we will all soon have a level playing field.

In my experience, nerfs always equal over-nerfs. If this keeps up, DKs will actually be the underpowered class. When that happens, do you want them to buff DKs, or to nerf Templars?

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Long overdue. Good work Zeni.

Now fix the other classes.

Why was it long overdue?

Are you kidding?

Have you been living under a rock?

Is this your answer?

Yes, that's my answer.

The point was that it's not really an answer. I'm sick of people not being held accountable for their statements. So many people just come into threads, drop down unsubstantiated claims about certain things being overpowered, and then leave.

Obviously you're a DK and when your class gets balanced, sure it hurts.

I was a DK. I was a PvE sword/shield, full stamina DK because I wanted to play a non-magic warrior type character, and that was literally the only half-viable build for such a thing. When they nerfed shield bash, my build was incapable of soloing veteran content. I couldn't afford to respec so I re-rolled entirely. It sucked, because I essentially wasted a month of my life, but I mostly got over it.

Now I play a melee Sorcorer, a build that must be focused around a high crit chance for various reasons. I'm so outspoken about the DK nerfs not because I used to play one, but because it speaks to a larger problem with the philosophy that Zenimax has towards class balance that is toxic to this game. This philosophy leads them to make hasty, narrow-sighted decisions with high collateral damage, like the recent ultimate generation on critical strikes nerf, which has nerfed my not-even-on-the-overpowered-radar melee Sorcorer.

All of the overpowered things you see DKs do essentially because of non-DK things; a good 75% of it is from the Magicka Furnace set bonus. Either they weren't able to unravel the (non) mystery of these overpowered "trial-soloing" DK builds, or they were able to and nerfed DKs regardless. Either way, that's something that I don't believe is healthy for the game.

The game was suffering in it's current state, if you don't see how this change benefits the whole game, then I'm just going to be wasting my time posting any further here.

If you can't see that this type of balancing is causing the suffering, then you're wasting everyone's time by posting here.

Maverick827 wrote: »

I was a DK. I was a PvE sword/shield, full stamina DK because I wanted to play a non-magic warrior type character, and that was literally the only half-viable build for such a thing. When they nerfed shield bash, my build was incapable of soloing veteran content. I couldn't afford to respec so I re-rolled entirely. It sucked, because I essentially wasted a month of my life, but I mostly got over it.

Now I play a melee Sorcorer, a build that must be focused around a high crit chance for various reasons. I'm so outspoken about the DK nerfs not because I used to play one, but because it speaks to a larger problem with the philosophy that Zenimax has towards class balance that is toxic to this game. This philosophy leads them to make hasty, narrow-sighted decisions with high collateral damage, like the recent ultimate generation on critical strikes nerf, which has nerfed my not-even-on-the-overpowered-radar melee Sorcorer.

All of the overpowered things you see DKs do essentially because of non-DK things; a good 75% of it is from the Magicka Furnace set bonus. Either they weren't able to unravel the (non) mystery of these overpowered "trial-soloing" DK builds, or they were able to and nerfed DKs regardless. Either way, that's something that I don't believe is healthy for the game.

If you can't see that this type of balancing is causing the suffering, then you're wasting everyone's time by posting here.

I actually agree with you. Zenimax are showing how incompetent they are when it comes to balancing the game. As I stated before, I would've much rather they buffed the 2 weakest classes so they're on par with the DK & Sorc, but I'll take Zeni's band aid fix for now as the situation was getting out of hand. A lot of players were simply packing their bags and moving on. End game PvE is all about creating the most effective groups, leaving out half the player base that didn't already re-roll out of frustration.

If you hadn't seen the vid of a DK easily soloing VR12 content, then you should probably check it out. Something needed to be done. This shouldn't be feasible. I'm not saying it wasn't with other classes, but it was nowhere near the cakewalk DKs were pulling off.

IMO it would be best for Zeni to take the game offline for a few months and start over. Magicka is king in this game. This leads few if any viable stamina builds with everyone favoring light armor and staves. There's no band aid fix for this, so I don't know how Zeni are going to tackle it, but I can tell you it's not going to be pretty. If you're peeved about this little change to DKs, prepare yourself for a world of hurt in the future.

And if think you're peeved about your DK and Sorc taking hits from the nerf bat, spare a thought for us poor neglected NBs & Temps. Honestly you rolled the 2 classes in the best position in regards to balance. Life is good for you.

They can nerf dk's/sorcs till they are blue in the face, but it doesn't fix NBs/Temps. DKs/Sorcs have better skill selections, better passives, better synergies. Reducing the power of their abilities doesnt change the fact that the NB/temp still have no real options in this regard. They are just upsetting players without fixing the real problems.

Don't worry guys! DK is still over powered! It's gonna be OK, I promise!

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

An ultimate gain NERF isnt exclusive for DKs, this touches all the classes equally, so to make the impression that DKs are more dependent on ultimate for DPS than any other class is pretty lame.

That has to be just the beginning of a series of DK/(Sorcs too) Nerfs we are gonna see in the couple of next patches. With DPS at least 100% more than for example the Templar, equals another 40-50% reduced DPS for the DK, or the Templar gets 100% more.

Im all for boosting instead of nerfing, but thats not realistic, and who wants to play a game where you can solo 12 man content? Boring, but I guess some DKs and Sorcs thinks thats how its supposed to be.

Nailed it. Once again they do a broad change and the DKS start whining that they're being singled out, failing to realize that this will hurt other classes.

Exactly. Kind of like that thread with the title "DK Shield bash Nerf TOO MUCH!?!?!?" or whatever. Uhhh yeah, I'm pretty sure other classes use a shield too

I'm one who am hopeful that the changes will improve the game. Too many naysayers on here.

MercyKilling wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

I will have to agree with this, DK were really really far ahead , .

The one problem I have with all this is:

If one class is rather far ahead, perhaps it is not because it is too strong, but the others are too weak.

Instead of always nerfing, perhaps buffing the other classes should be considered?

Note: This latest nerf likely doesn't affect me in the least, as my DK is not following any preset "build", nor am I following any "this is best so I use it" formula.

Does it matter whether you buff others, or nerf a single one? I guess you're less likely to get complaints by buffing others, apart from if the buff is viewed as too OP.

Should have nerfed more... or buff the "lesser" classes.

Maverick827 wrote: »

This is exactly what I was talking about. Those videos have very little to do with DKs. Mostly it's because Corrosive Armor fits a niche within the Reso Staff/Light Armor build. That doesn't mean that Corrosive Armor or DKs are overpowered, and this public perception that has pressured Zenimax into nerfing DKs so much is only slightly less stupid than Zenimax actually listening to it.

No other class was able to solo VR12 content at that level, so I would say it has a lot to do with being a DK. Zenimax leaving the DK in it's current state would've been the stupid move.

Maverick827 wrote: »

And this is another terrible mentality that people have. Not all DKs and Sorcs have it easy. There are many DK and Sorc builds that are less powerful than various Templar and NB builds. It's a complete cop out to say "well, at least you have it good" as if all DKs and Sorcs are running light armor/staff.

If you're not running light armor/staff, then that's your decision, but clearly you're choosing not to use an optimal build. NBs & Temps are forced to use light armor/staff because it's our only option just to be viable, not optimal.

So, once again DK bashing... Really people, it is getting old. Yes, I do main Dragonknight, and yes I've played Nightblades and Templars. No not sorcs, I do not like mages. As a Dragonknight, I still play with Heavy Armor, Dual Wield/Bow/One Hand+Shield, full stamina, no magicka, unlike most Dragonknights, I'm not wearing a dress nor wielding a stick.

Problem here is that, if they actually nerfed Light Armor and Restoration/Destruction Staff, they would nerf both Sorcerers and Dragonknights "OPness", so to speak, considering all that ridiculousness I hear about 1k DPS, whereas I can't even pass 500 unless I burn through potions and get lucky crits.
Nah I couldn't give a damn about Standard nor Magma Armor, hell I never even used Magma Armor during tanking, Standard only for helping my teammates rather than myself, again as tanking, since for DPS I'd rather use Flawless Dawnbreaker due to my reliance on weapon skills. Thank god blocking still works, which I assume, by there tanking nerfs, our shields will turn into paper soon.

However, by nerfing Standard, Talons (and for some reason, ever since Talon nerf, it does not even work, 50% of the time it fails to activate), Magma Armor, and now people crying for Dragon Blood, if these keep happening, can we get 2 months of gametime added for the wasted time? or at least get an option to transfer all skills and the level of our character to another class of our choice (which I'd rather be playing Nightblade right now, only chose Dragonknight due to fiery goodness), because basically, you are screwing up every single viable little things DKs had who was stupid enough to think we could play melee. You guys are punishing melee enough, but all your nerfs are done according to the OPness of these said classes, yet as you can see, even as a Nightblade, ANYONE wearing a damn dress and wielding a stick is OP. And nothing is being done about it, in fact, its being forced as the only way.

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

This is exactly what I was talking about. Those videos have very little to do with DKs. Mostly it's because Corrosive Armor fits a niche within the Reso Staff/Light Armor build. That doesn't mean that Corrosive Armor or DKs are overpowered, and this public perception that has pressured Zenimax into nerfing DKs so much is only slightly less stupid than Zenimax actually listening to it.

No other class was able to solo VR12 content at that level, so I would say it has a lot to do with being a DK. Zenimax leaving the DK in it's current state would've been the stupid move.

Maverick827 wrote: »

And this is another terrible mentality that people have. Not all DKs and Sorcs have it easy. There are many DK and Sorc builds that are less powerful than various Templar and NB builds. It's a complete cop out to say "well, at least you have it good" as if all DKs and Sorcs are running light armor/staff.

If you're not running light armor/staff, then that's your decision, but clearly you're choosing not to use an optimal build. NBs & Temps are forced to use light armor/staff because it's our only option just to be viable, not optimal.

It sounds like perhaps instead of nerfing individual classes, the disparity between light armor/staff builds and all the other armor/weapons should br addressed. For way too long now dk and sorc have been in a negative light with the community because of how powerful they are when synergized with light armor and staves. Any class that is light armor/staff will be stronger than its counterpart in any other combo. If nightblade and templar were all fixed and the other weapon and armor lines were fixed, most of the balancing would be done. But instead the devs are wasting time on individual class nerfs and creating more work for themselves. If you put the cartridge before the horse, you aren't going anywhere.

monkeymystic wrote: »

Just keep in mind that DKs that don't run around with destro/resto, doesn't have the DPS people talk about.

These nerfs hit hard on dks using other weapon types as well.

And like I said, DKs are terrible healers because the class lacks the utility for it, so they are left with tank or dps. Now they are getting nerfs left and right (like the Inhale nerf nobody understands?) to both tank and dps roles.

I'm simply saying don't continue to nerf this too far until DKs end up where NBs have been before the NB fixes. That is not balancing, that is breaking a class into pieces.

Lastly, trying to throw personal attacks against me does not make you sound like a better or more mature person.

Lol before the nightblade fixes....we had fixes? when the hell was that? They could nerf you down to only being able to use talons and a moldy loaf of bread and you would still be in a better boat than templars and NB's.

ErykGrimm wrote: »

It sounds like perhaps instead of nerfing individual classes, the disparity between light armor/staff builds and all the other armor/weapons should br addressed. For way too long now dk and sorc have been in a negative light with the community because of how powerful they are when synergized with light armor and staves. Any class that is light armor/staff will be stronger than its counterpart in any other combo. If nightblade and templar were all fixed and the other weapon and armor lines were fixed, most of the balancing would be done. But instead the devs are wasting time on individual class nerfs and creating more work for themselves. If you put the cartridge before the horse, you aren't going anywhere.

This is what the majority have been craving. At this point, pretty much everyone realises that the game favors magicka builds, thus creating the light armor/staff movement. Stamina builds are fundamentally broken IMO, to fix this, they'd need to totally redo the whole system, but I can't see that happening. So we can expect more of these band aid fixes, but obviously they don't address the core of the problem.

Until the general direction of fast trial clears steers towards a balanced setup (eg 3 spots for each class), it`s not balanced enough.
Why should any class be more favorable to fill a trial spot than others?
Monkey, you said your trials bring in 1-2 NB but 3-4 DK. That`s not balanced.