Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
NPC Enemies - Infinite Melee Range, Spells and Arrows Passing Through Walls
CrimsonThomas
✭✭✭✭
I created this thread to start a needed discussion regarding the way NPC enemies deal damage in this game. Yes, the game absolutely should be challenging and engaging the player to mix up their tactics and try new skills and equipment. Enemies should be able to dish out a good amount of damage. That's all fine and great.
What's not good, however, is how the AI enemies deal the damage to us. This is not a connection issue, it is the way the game's damage system was designed. As long as a Melee NPC's attack animation has started, it will hit you, regardless if you're right up against them or twenty feet away. I'm not talking about their power attacks either (and it is the same case here most of the time, unless their heavy attack is charging in a straight line or standing completely still like the mammoths), just their standard attacks. This isn't a fair system in the slightest, nor is it properly challenging. Dying because the AI can effectively cheat the player with melee attacks is not good design. In fact, I died three times during my most recent play session because Storm Atronochs were able to pummel me while I ran away from over seven meters away.
When it comes to magic-using enemies, as soon as they launch a spell, it will always hit you. No matter what you do, how far you run, what you hide behind, the spell will hit you. This has cost me my life countless times, as I would run around a wall to hide only to be killed by a fire spell that traveled straight through the wall to get to me. Arrows are just as heat-seeking here. Dying because the AI can effectively cheat the player with ranged attacks that go through walls is abysmal design and does not provide a great combat experience.
Enemies should be challenging because of the skill it takes to kill them. Not because they can shoot through walls or whack you from miles away.
I understand there are hardware and engine limitations and only so much can be done, but this should not be considered acceptable and left as-is.
P.S., all of those healer NPC's should not be able to spam self-healing spells.
Also, Zenimax? Didn't you say that The Elder Scrolls Online would not have target-based combat (at least not a traditional one)? That is exactly what this current, poorly-functioning system is.
Edited by CrimsonThomas on June 1, 2014 11:27PM What's not good, however, is how the AI enemies deal the damage to us. This is not a connection issue, it is the way the game's damage system was designed. As long as a Melee NPC's attack animation has started, it will hit you, regardless if you're right up against them or twenty feet away. I'm not talking about their power attacks either (and it is the same case here most of the time, unless their heavy attack is charging in a straight line or standing completely still like the mammoths), just their standard attacks. This isn't a fair system in the slightest, nor is it properly challenging. Dying because the AI can effectively cheat the player with melee attacks is not good design. In fact, I died three times during my most recent play session because Storm Atronochs were able to pummel me while I ran away from over seven meters away.
When it comes to magic-using enemies, as soon as they launch a spell, it will always hit you. No matter what you do, how far you run, what you hide behind, the spell will hit you. This has cost me my life countless times, as I would run around a wall to hide only to be killed by a fire spell that traveled straight through the wall to get to me. Arrows are just as heat-seeking here. Dying because the AI can effectively cheat the player with ranged attacks that go through walls is abysmal design and does not provide a great combat experience.
Enemies should be challenging because of the skill it takes to kill them. Not because they can shoot through walls or whack you from miles away.
I understand there are hardware and engine limitations and only so much can be done, but this should not be considered acceptable and left as-is.
P.S., all of those healer NPC's should not be able to spam self-healing spells.
Also, Zenimax? Didn't you say that The Elder Scrolls Online would not have target-based combat (at least not a traditional one)? That is exactly what this current, poorly-functioning system is.
9
-
PVT_Parts✭✭✭I agree. It always astonishes me when I am next to a wall and suddenly a fireball flies through it. Although, magic I could understand because it is...magic. But the arrows definitely need to be fixed as does the melee.5 -
blauschwinge✭✭You forgot to mention mobtrains running after you for 7miles, hitting you all the time and then resetting when you turn around to angrily snap at them.
10 -
Arizona_Willie✭✭✭I've been bitching about this for some time. It is totally unfair that the NPC's can shoot through walls but we can't.
Grounds enough to quit playing perhaps.
It is obviously deliberately designed that we otherwise WE would be able to shoot through walls / rocks / whatever the hell is in the way too.
I've seen a lot of times I couldn't go forward and discovered there was a smallish rock in my way and just like in real life I had to either jump over or go around so it's obvious they DO have the capability to make solid object solid ... but they are NOT solid for the NPC'S.If I wanted a Signature I would have a Signature --- but i don't want one so I don't have one.2 -
gronbek✭✭✭Yes, this is very common in mmo target system. But was eso not advertised as a non target mmo? So is it a lie and fake?3
-
CrimsonThomas✭✭✭✭Yes, this is very common in mmo target system. But was eso not advertised as a non target mmo? So is it a lie and fake?
Wouldn't surprise me at this point. I remember that being said as well.My favorite thing is that npc healers have infinite magicka pools.
Especially when they're dungeon bosses. This really needs a fix, because these enemies can become unkillable.Arizona_Willie wrote: »It is totally unfair that the NPC's can shoot through walls but we can't.
Grounds enough to quit playing perhaps.
It is obviously deliberately designed that we otherwise WE would be able to shoot through walls / rocks / whatever the hell is in the way too.
I've seen a lot of times I couldn't go forward and discovered there was a smallish rock in my way and just like in real life I had to either jump over or go around so it's obvious they DO have the capability to make solid object solid ... but they are NOT solid for the NPC'S.
It is the most annoying thing in the world. You escape a mob, only to be killed by a spell or arrow that traveled through the wall.
1 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've got Imps flaming me at full power, after I kill them, until I die.
It matters not whether I block, run, or duck behind cover.
The live Imps that can flame me through walls or boulders is bad enough, but the accuracy and stamina of the dead ones really annoys the snot outta me.The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
CrimsonThomas✭✭✭✭I've got Imps flaming me at full power, after I kill them, until I die.
It matters not whether I block, run, or duck behind cover.
The live Imps that can flame me through walls or boulders is bad enough, but the accuracy and stamina of the dead ones really annoys the snot outta me.
I just find it funny, particularly if you play as a Nightblade like I do. I have to aim my skills, and half the time they fail to actually register. Not so with any NPC though! Any magic attack they launch, will hit you.
On top of this, enemies don't even have to be facing you to hit you. Run behind a troll the next time you're fighting one. You'll see what I mean.
This crappy system has made Daedric Harvesters and Storm Atronochs especially annoying.Edited by CrimsonThomas on June 1, 2014 11:25PM2 -
vicNBitis✭✭✭Say what you will about Harvesters but the one I hate is the rogue NPC. When he cartwheels over your head right when you're going invis. So you think "I'm going to stab this mother when he lands" only to have him teleport back to where he launched. Oh, and he's facing the wrong way now! And Disguise just expired...............0
-
gronbek✭✭✭I would like an expanation from the devs on this issue why mob can fire through walls and we cant. Seems like standard mmo target system not targetless as said3
-
RatsnevE✭✭✭How can I leave this thread alone. Granted I may not have a great build or be finger-twitching fast enough at times but there have been so many solo-boss battles where I've experienced so much described. The NPC with me to help me or me help it who just stands there doing nothing unless a foe minion attacks it directly really hurts just before my PC dies yet again. And I hate it when some boss like Mannimarco casts something at you that hits you even though you've run far far away and around a corner or hits you with a bomb at that great a range--totally unfair. It is mean-spirited programming. Doesn't seem to bother hardcore gamers though.
I've got around 68,000 gold and I'd love to spend some of it on some hired NPC help for some of these solo-boss battles. That would help make the game fun again.Edited by RatsnevE on June 2, 2014 6:38AM0 -
Prettiboi✭✭✭How can I leave this thread alone. Granted I may not have a great build or be finger-twitching fast enough at times but there have been so many solo-boss battles where I've experienced so much described. The NPC with me to help me or me help it who just stands there doing nothing unless a foe minion attacks it directly really hurts just before my PC dies yet again. And I hate it when some boss like Mannimarco casts something at you that hits you even though you've run far far away and around a corner or hits you with a bomb at that great a range--totally unfair. It is mean-spirited programming. Doesn't seem to bother hardcore gamers though.
I've got around 68,000 gold and I'd love to spend some of it on some hired NPC help for some of these solo-boss battles. That would help make the game fun again.
Wow how bad are you at the game? Hire NPC for help in solo-boss battles? Don't kid me. This game is easy enough that it can be easily solo'd from 1-49. VR1-VR10 quests can be solo'd as well, they're harder but still not difficult enough.
This is what we get when Zenimax caters to the casuals: crying out nerfs for bosses, easy content, no challenge. Why even bother to play the game seriously?PrettiBoi
Daggerfall Covenant
No Mercy PVP Guild -- Former Emperor
Awaken PVE Guild -- DC's Fastest AA & Hel Ra Times1 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭The problem to me seems to be that until difficulty levels can be established in an MMO no one is ever going to figure out a way of balancing difficulty fairly between hardcore and casual. ZOS isn't going to market ESO just to hardcore nor market it just to Casual. One or the other of us gets screwed here. It wasn't a problem in GW2 because there were no main story solo-only dungeons--in fact I don't think there was anything in that game that was solo-only. You could solo as much as you liked in PvE and PvP and join up on the fly with everyone else whenever the going got tough.
So you fly off the handle because I not only agree with the OP but go a little off topic to mention (like so many others have) that the boss battles solo are overly difficult and if programmed that way on purpose are mean-spirited.
Tough!
Maybe you would like to review my thread on my PC's build here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106190/khajiit-nb-build-needs-possible-refurbishment-of-build-training-respec-and-reasons-why#latest and contribute to her repair? Believe me, I'd like nothing better then to make these solo-boss battles 'easy'--really. If you think its fun dying so many times without a clue why because I don't figure out the strategy your nuts. And if you think we should just disappear... well, that isn't going to happen. So I suggest the hardcore gamers figure out how to help the casual gamers.Edited by RatsnevE on June 2, 2014 9:21AM0 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭What I find amazing about all these bugs, bots, gold, etc. issues is that none of the developers seem to learn ANYTHING about MMOs at least not from each other.
GW and WoW have been around for YEARS yet here comes ZOS falling into all the old pitfalls seemingly unaware of what to do about any of them--trying to fix things from scratch. That's real disappointing and pathetic. You should all get together and manage solutions one way. Then you wouldn't have some smart hacker seeing some new code they can exploit that ZOS is unaware of? I find it hard to believe that permanent banning isn't effective. What do these hackers do--change their names, move around to different locals, change to different ISPs, etc? Expose them... Get their governments to take criminal action against them which is what it is. ZOS, if all you are doing is finger slapping the hackers that are wrecking your game for all of us then you are getting what you deserve and you will FAIL.
My point is that ZOS, in trying to deal with all the really big problems they are having doesn't have the resources to deal with all the little aggravating bugs too like this OP and if they aren't careful they'll miss out on everything if they don't start making real solutions. Introducing patches that fix some problems but introduce new problems all because the PC has way to much variety and then introducing hot fixes that are half effective is going to equate to FAIL.Edited by RatsnevE on June 2, 2014 5:41PM0
