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Made my first sorcerer....no wonder.
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Huckdabuck✭✭✭✭✭Huckdabuck wrote: »Huckdabuck wrote: »
Coregoal of ESO:Their first passive is decrease spell and feat cost by 5%. Why does a sorcerer need a passive to decrease stamina cost of abilities?
Every class can play every role. A sorc tank can be very effective - two armor/spell res buffs. One of thsoe also meele range aoe damage.
Summons help with DPS and splitting damage further.
Negate Magic is often forgotten to coutner vamps and AoE effects.
Says who, You?DK and NB have builds that rely on stamina and magicka more so than Sorcerer, so shouldn't they be the ones with this passive, not the class that uses the least stamina abilities.
Sure there are builds for a sorcerer that uses stamina, such as a bow sorc build, but that is much rarer than the all magicka builds.
Sorry, but I can only strongly disagree. How you think sorcs/nb/dk should be played is a lot less relevant then how Zenmax things they should be played.
And frankly I prefer Zenimax ideas to yours by a large margin, because it allwos me much more freedom.
Final words:
Get rid of your asumptions and presumptions about classes and roles. They are only in your way to see the game as it really is.
You are right, they are only in my way to see that there is no class balance and that Sorcerers are king. Who says Sorcerers are mostly magic build? Every. Single. Fantasy. Thing. Ever. Who says knights are usually stamina based and not magic as much? Every. Single. Fantasy. Thing. Ever. If you use a sorcerer with a stamina build, you are doing something wrong.
Well thank you for pointing out that all these pesky BE/CS sorcs have a worthless passive that doesn't do them any good whatsoever. Time for all the sorcs to rise up and QQ for Zenimax to replace that unnecessary portion of the passive to something more beneficial (like maybe an increase to both range of BE and damage done by CS. Jesus.
DERPPPPPP!
It isn't a useless passive, it does both magicka and stamina skill cost reduction.
See bolded parts above....make sense now?
The bolded portion, yes. The first sentence, no.
As with all things sensational on the interwebz....if it's not 100% good then it must be 100% bad.....as there can be no middle ground.Texashighelf - VR16 Sorcerer EP NA - FILTHY BARBARIAN
Texasimperial - VR16 Dragonknight EP NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas'Imperial - VR16 Dragonknight DC NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas-Imperial - VR16 Templar DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Highelf - VR16 Sorcerer DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Imperial - VR16 Nightblade DC NA - Queue Clogging LagsploitterJessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.1 -
FunkyBudda✭✭✭FunkyBudda wrote: »Their first passive is decrease spell and feat cost by 5%. Why does a sorcerer need a passive to decrease stamina cost of abilities?
I now realize that it wasn't the DKs that abused the shield bash the most, but the sorcerer. Or at least they had the most potential to do it with the decrease cost by 90 enchantments, 50%(pre nerf) decrease in cost, and a further 5% decrease in cost.
Shield bash is just an off topic comment.
My real question is why do they have a single passive that makes stamina cost cheaper? This is the ultimate balanced passive...If every class had it. The DK doesnt have that. NB doesn't have that. Templar doesn't have that. DK and NB have builds that rely on stamina and magicka more so than Sorcerer, so shouldn't they be the ones with this passive, not the class that uses the least stamina abilities.
Sure there are builds for a sorcerer that uses stamina, such as a bow sorc build, but that is much rarer than the all magicka builds.
I know I'm getting to this discussion late. Mainly because I don't theorycraft for a class that I don't play so I didn't look up their passives and abilities. I also didn't play a Sorcerer alt until now. I can see the incredible potential for Sorcerer much more than any other class. They have better passives that encompass more. They have better, more useful set abilities that benefit them more than others. They do an incredible amount of damage and are able to tank with the familiars. They can teleport distances if I am too lazy to get on my horse or walk. Hell, they can even go a stamina build and have a 5% reduction in all stamina costs. Is there anything a sorcerer can't do?
Sorc has better passives than other classes?
Try DK, battle roar + corrosive armor = solo Craglorn content
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103435/dk-solos-craglorn
Please show me a Sorc that does that, or the other 2 classes.
Nice try tho, but EPIC FAIL.
I'm sorry, but corrosive armor is an active skill not a passive. This is not about combining an ult and a passive combo, this is about analyzing passives by themselves. Battle Roar is only on activation of an ultimate. So yes, I'm sure there is a way for soloing vet content using an ult and a passive. Don't forget they were probably popping green dragon blood and doing a lot of other DK only things while soloing that dungeon. Also, I watched that video. I thought you had to be more than 3m away from an enemy to use take flight. Maybe I am just wrong since that ult glitched for me a lot, but I am pretty sure you can't use it at point blank range like he did in the video.
did you forget I mentioned battle roar? Do you not acknowledge DK's skills (whether active or passtive) makes lots of gears/weapons combo better than other classes using the same gears/weapons?
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PVT_Parts✭✭✭FunkyBudda wrote: »FunkyBudda wrote: »Their first passive is decrease spell and feat cost by 5%. Why does a sorcerer need a passive to decrease stamina cost of abilities?
I now realize that it wasn't the DKs that abused the shield bash the most, but the sorcerer. Or at least they had the most potential to do it with the decrease cost by 90 enchantments, 50%(pre nerf) decrease in cost, and a further 5% decrease in cost.
Shield bash is just an off topic comment.
My real question is why do they have a single passive that makes stamina cost cheaper? This is the ultimate balanced passive...If every class had it. The DK doesnt have that. NB doesn't have that. Templar doesn't have that. DK and NB have builds that rely on stamina and magicka more so than Sorcerer, so shouldn't they be the ones with this passive, not the class that uses the least stamina abilities.
Sure there are builds for a sorcerer that uses stamina, such as a bow sorc build, but that is much rarer than the all magicka builds.
I know I'm getting to this discussion late. Mainly because I don't theorycraft for a class that I don't play so I didn't look up their passives and abilities. I also didn't play a Sorcerer alt until now. I can see the incredible potential for Sorcerer much more than any other class. They have better passives that encompass more. They have better, more useful set abilities that benefit them more than others. They do an incredible amount of damage and are able to tank with the familiars. They can teleport distances if I am too lazy to get on my horse or walk. Hell, they can even go a stamina build and have a 5% reduction in all stamina costs. Is there anything a sorcerer can't do?
Sorc has better passives than other classes?
Try DK, battle roar + corrosive armor = solo Craglorn content
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103435/dk-solos-craglorn
Please show me a Sorc that does that, or the other 2 classes.
Nice try tho, but EPIC FAIL.
I'm sorry, but corrosive armor is an active skill not a passive. This is not about combining an ult and a passive combo, this is about analyzing passives by themselves. Battle Roar is only on activation of an ultimate. So yes, I'm sure there is a way for soloing vet content using an ult and a passive. Don't forget they were probably popping green dragon blood and doing a lot of other DK only things while soloing that dungeon. Also, I watched that video. I thought you had to be more than 3m away from an enemy to use take flight. Maybe I am just wrong since that ult glitched for me a lot, but I am pretty sure you can't use it at point blank range like he did in the video.
did you forget I mentioned battle roar? Do you not acknowledge DK's skills (whether active or passtive) makes lots of gears/weapons combo better than other classes using the same gears/weapons?
My main is a DK, Sorcerers are easier. Yes I acknowledged battle roar in my previous comment. But you can also say that sorcerers active skills and passives "make lots of gears/weapons combo better than other classes using the same gears/weapons." Sorcerers are more OP than DK, DKs are just more survivable. There is no way to put out the kind of power that a sorcerer does with their skills in as sustainable a way. DKs are able to do less damage over a much longer time because of their passives like battle roar and actives like green dragon blood. Honestly though, wouldn't surprise me to see a sorcerer solo that trial with their summoned pets. There are many videos of sorcerers soloing many dungeons, just because there is one of a DK doing it and none of a sorcerer doing it yet doesn't mean they can't. Also, you didn't address my comment about take flight. Can you use take flight at point blank range? If so, my DK must have been bugged when I was using that as my ult from 1-50 before switching in VR content.0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭Also, you didn't address my comment about take flight. Can you use take flight at point blank range? If so, my DK must have been bugged when I was using that as my ult from 1-50 before switching in VR content.
I addressed your comment. Take Flight is not used. He uses Corrosive Armor. You are seeing Dragon Fire Scale and thinking it is Take Flight.0 -
OFC_it✭✭We should be able to use our five star hotel bathrobes as gliding suits to jump off cliffs.0
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NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Unlike NB`s/templars/dk`s, sorc has NO stamina regen passive. None. Nothing.
Also, 5% reduction.... templars get 4%... dk`s have stamina regen on the healing spell... nb`s have no resource problems if built for it....
There are no stamina regen passives for any class. The stam regen passive comes from med armor.
Helping Hand.
Refreshing Shadows.
Your post is one of many examples that prove 99% of the people commenting on game/class balance have no idea at all what they're talking about.
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PVT_Parts✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Also, you didn't address my comment about take flight. Can you use take flight at point blank range? If so, my DK must have been bugged when I was using that as my ult from 1-50 before switching in VR content.
I addressed your comment. Take Flight is not used. He uses Corrosive Armor. You are seeing Dragon Fire Scale and thinking it is Take Flight.
He does use it, once at point blank range. He sprouts the wings. There isn't any other ability where you sprout those wings. its at 2-4m in, I don't remember exactly.0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Also, you didn't address my comment about take flight. Can you use take flight at point blank range? If so, my DK must have been bugged when I was using that as my ult from 1-50 before switching in VR content.
I addressed your comment. Take Flight is not used. He uses Corrosive Armor. You are seeing Dragon Fire Scale and thinking it is Take Flight.
He does use it, once at point blank range. He sprouts the wings. There isn't any other ability where you sprout those wings. its at 2-4m in, I don't remember exactly.
DRAGON FIRE SCALE... I use it all the time... you sprout wings. FFS dude, how many times do I have to say it.Edited by Drasn on May 30, 2014 5:17PM0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@PVT_Parts
Omg dude.....at this point you're spreading so much misinformation that you just need to stop. Its embarrassing.
There's nothing wrong with being inexperienced with the game, just don't act so sure of yourself.
Reflective Scales sprouts wings. That's what he's talking about.
There are multiple passives that give stamina regen that are WAYY better than the Sorc passive. Helping Hand returns 5% of your total stamina every time you activate an Earthen Heart ability (this is the most powerful stamina return in the game.) Refreshing Shadows gives 15% Stam regen when you activate a Shadow ability.
Templar's have restoring spirit which is a 4% reduction to Stam/Magicka/ and Ultimate Costs.0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Coregoal of ESO:Their first passive is decrease spell and feat cost by 5%. Why does a sorcerer need a passive to decrease stamina cost of abilities?
Every class can play every role. A sorc tank can be very effective - two armor/spell res buffs. One of thsoe also meele range aoe damage.
Summons help with DPS and splitting damage further.
Negate Magic is often forgotten to coutner vamps and AoE effects.
Says who, You?DK and NB have builds that rely on stamina and magicka more so than Sorcerer, so shouldn't they be the ones with this passive, not the class that uses the least stamina abilities.
Sure there are builds for a sorcerer that uses stamina, such as a bow sorc build, but that is much rarer than the all magicka builds.
Sorry, but I can only strongly disagree. How you think sorcs/nb/dk should be played is a lot less relevant then how Zenmax things they should be played.
And frankly I prefer Zenimax ideas to yours by a large margin, because it allwos me much more freedom.
Final words:
Get rid of your asumptions and presumptions about classes and roles. They are only in your way to see the game as it really is.
You are right, they are only in my way to see that there is no class balance and that Sorcerers are king. Who says Sorcerers are mostly magic build? Every. Single. Fantasy. Thing. Ever. Who says knights are usually stamina based and not magic as much? Every. Single. Fantasy. Thing. Ever. If you use a sorcerer with a stamina build, you are doing something wrong.
This is funny because your response beautifully exemplifies the point being made by the person you were disagreeing with. I second it: lose you assumptions as they are getting in the way of your ability to think; and consider thinking before posting.0 -
flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭FunkyBudda wrote: »Their first passive is decrease spell and feat cost by 5%. Why does a sorcerer need a passive to decrease stamina cost of abilities?
I now realize that it wasn't the DKs that abused the shield bash the most, but the sorcerer. Or at least they had the most potential to do it with the decrease cost by 90 enchantments, 50%(pre nerf) decrease in cost, and a further 5% decrease in cost.
Shield bash is just an off topic comment.
My real question is why do they have a single passive that makes stamina cost cheaper? This is the ultimate balanced passive...If every class had it. The DK doesnt have that. NB doesn't have that. Templar doesn't have that. DK and NB have builds that rely on stamina and magicka more so than Sorcerer, so shouldn't they be the ones with this passive, not the class that uses the least stamina abilities.
Sure there are builds for a sorcerer that uses stamina, such as a bow sorc build, but that is much rarer than the all magicka builds.
I know I'm getting to this discussion late. Mainly because I don't theorycraft for a class that I don't play so I didn't look up their passives and abilities. I also didn't play a Sorcerer alt until now. I can see the incredible potential for Sorcerer much more than any other class. They have better passives that encompass more. They have better, more useful set abilities that benefit them more than others. They do an incredible amount of damage and are able to tank with the familiars. They can teleport distances if I am too lazy to get on my horse or walk. Hell, they can even go a stamina build and have a 5% reduction in all stamina costs. Is there anything a sorcerer can't do?
Sorc has better passives than other classes?
Try DK, battle roar + corrosive armor = solo Craglorn content
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103435/dk-solos-craglorn
Please show me a Sorc that does that, or the other 2 classes.
Nice try tho, but EPIC FAIL.
Sorc does solo Craglorn: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/sorcerer-solos-craglorn/0 -
PVT_Parts✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Unlike NB`s/templars/dk`s, sorc has NO stamina regen passive. None. Nothing.
Also, 5% reduction.... templars get 4%... dk`s have stamina regen on the healing spell... nb`s have no resource problems if built for it....
There are no stamina regen passives for any class. The stam regen passive comes from med armor.
Helping Hand.
Refreshing Shadows.
Your post is one of many examples that prove 99% of the people commenting on game/class balance have no idea at all what they're talking about.
Helping hand isn't stam regen, it's 2% stamina back. You are correct about refreshing shadows, I have only glance at the NB passives and must have overlooked it or dismissed it because it is only for a short time after casting an ability in that skill tree.
As for my comments on game/class balance. I'm not a min/maxer. I don't look up builds on the forums or anywhere else and don't do the FOTM. So if I can see the benefits of sorcerer abilities and passives more than I can see the DK passive/ability usefulness, then the average player will find sorcerers to be much more OP and easier to use than DKs, NB, and Templars.0 -
PVT_Parts✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Also, you didn't address my comment about take flight. Can you use take flight at point blank range? If so, my DK must have been bugged when I was using that as my ult from 1-50 before switching in VR content.
I addressed your comment. Take Flight is not used. He uses Corrosive Armor. You are seeing Dragon Fire Scale and thinking it is Take Flight.
He does use it, once at point blank range. He sprouts the wings. There isn't any other ability where you sprout those wings. its at 2-4m in, I don't remember exactly.
DRAGON FIRE SCALE... I use it all the time... you sprout wings. FFS dude, how many times do I have to say it.
Never heard of it, it isn't on my DK. Still though, why do I care about a DK soloing a Craig dungeon? That seems irrelevant. I'm sure he is much much better at this game than you or I, doesn't mean that the only reason he can do it is because he is a DK. Having 1 video of a guy soloing a dungeon is no way to judge DK being the best class. Maybe he is just the best player? Maybe he is cheating? You don't know.0 -
Depleted_UraniumSoul ShrivenFor those still wondering why Sorcerers have a reduce Stamina cost passive here's your answer: http://esohead.com/skills/24584-dark-exchange
(for those that don't like links: Dark Exchange uses stamina to replenish Health and Magicka.)0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Unlike NB`s/templars/dk`s, sorc has NO stamina regen passive. None. Nothing.
Also, 5% reduction.... templars get 4%... dk`s have stamina regen on the healing spell... nb`s have no resource problems if built for it....
There are no stamina regen passives for any class. The stam regen passive comes from med armor.
Helping Hand.
Refreshing Shadows.
Your post is one of many examples that prove 99% of the people commenting on game/class balance have no idea at all what they're talking about.
Helping hand isn't stam regen, it's 2% stamina back. You are correct about refreshing shadows, I have only glance at the NB passives and must have overlooked it or dismissed it because it is only for a short time after casting an ability in that skill tree.
As for my comments on game/class balance. I'm not a min/maxer. I don't look up builds on the forums or anywhere else and don't do the FOTM. So if I can see the benefits of sorcerer abilities and passives more than I can see the DK passive/ability usefulness, then the average player will find sorcerers to be much more OP and easier to use than DKs, NB, and Templars.
Except its more about synergy than just 1 passive. Sorcs aren't OP because of Unholy Knowledge. Sorc's are OP because of the way their skills/passives synergize with the other skills available. And it has nothing to do with Unholy Knowledge.
DK's skill/passives have even better synergy than that of sorc.
Templars have little to no synergy what-so-ever.
Nightblades have good synergy, just not were they would prefer it.0 -
PVT_Parts✭✭✭
Well just think of it like it is always 1/10 of a lvl above everyone else when training that lvl. VR3-4 it is over 100,000XP or 2-3+ quest hub locations. Equivalent to getting VR4 1-3 hours sooner than someone without it. it is P2W in the fact that you get to max lvl faster and can then use your increased stats and skills in PVP.0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Also, you didn't address my comment about take flight. Can you use take flight at point blank range? If so, my DK must have been bugged when I was using that as my ult from 1-50 before switching in VR content.
I addressed your comment. Take Flight is not used. He uses Corrosive Armor. You are seeing Dragon Fire Scale and thinking it is Take Flight.
He does use it, once at point blank range. He sprouts the wings. There isn't any other ability where you sprout those wings. its at 2-4m in, I don't remember exactly.
DRAGON FIRE SCALE... I use it all the time... you sprout wings. FFS dude, how many times do I have to say it.
Never heard of it, it isn't on my DK. Still though, why do I care about a DK soloing a Craig dungeon? That seems irrelevant. I'm sure he is much much better at this game than you or I, doesn't mean that the only reason he can do it is because he is a DK. Having 1 video of a guy soloing a dungeon is no way to judge DK being the best class. Maybe he is just the best player? Maybe he is cheating? You don't know.
Really? It's not on your DK. Draconic Power Line: 4th skill. Reflective Scale(Morphs to Reflective Plate or Dragon Fire Scale.) If your DK doesn't have access to it then you aren't playing a DK.
The reason he can do it, and any DK can do it for that matter, is because of synergy of DK skills with Resto/Destro skills. More so it's because Battle Roar is hands down the best Health/Stamina/Magicka regen passive in the game. Couple that with Dragon Blood/Corrosive Armor/Helping Hands/Ash Cloud/Draw Essence you have a class that is leaps and bounds above the others.
Edited by Drasn on May 30, 2014 5:45PM0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭
Well just think of it like it is always 1/10 of a lvl above everyone else when training that lvl. VR3-4 it is over 100,000XP or 2-3+ quest hub locations. Equivalent to getting VR4 1-3 hours sooner than someone without it. it is P2W in the fact that you get to max lvl faster and can then use your increased stats and skills in PVP.
Or you could understand that Vets don't get XP we get Veteran Points. That means that Rings of Mara only work 1-50 when its meh, at best.0 -
PVT_Parts✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »
Well just think of it like it is always 1/10 of a lvl above everyone else when training that lvl. VR3-4 it is over 100,000XP or 2-3+ quest hub locations. Equivalent to getting VR4 1-3 hours sooner than someone without it. it is P2W in the fact that you get to max lvl faster and can then use your increased stats and skills in PVP.
Or you could understand that Vets don't get XP we get Veteran Points. That means that Rings of Mara only work 1-50 when its meh, at best.
Really? I know Veterans get VP, not XP, but I thought it was just semantics and had no real reason to not just be called XP. I did not know that the Ring of Mara is only good till lvl 49. That seems annoying. But what about quests? Doesn't it boost quest XP by 10% as well?
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Drasn✭✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »
Well just think of it like it is always 1/10 of a lvl above everyone else when training that lvl. VR3-4 it is over 100,000XP or 2-3+ quest hub locations. Equivalent to getting VR4 1-3 hours sooner than someone without it. it is P2W in the fact that you get to max lvl faster and can then use your increased stats and skills in PVP.
Or you could understand that Vets don't get XP we get Veteran Points. That means that Rings of Mara only work 1-50 when its meh, at best.
Really? I know Veterans get VP, not XP, but I thought it was just semantics and had no real reason to not just be called XP. I did not know that the Ring of Mara is only good till lvl 49. That seems annoying. But what about quests? Doesn't it boost quest XP by 10% as well?
The only thing rings of Mara are good for after hitting V1 is leveling skills. They affect all xp gains, however, Veteran Points != XP. You can see this very clearly with the use of addons that display XP/VP gains.0
