Why Sorcerer's Bolt Escape is necessary

Reykice · May 2014

Matt.vanelsenb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm gonna say this without reading the other comments, so forgive me for repeating something. But where did you find these 3 siphoning abilities for nightblades? The only one that heals you is strife, and that's HoT, so it's not like it'll save your life mid-combat or anything. I suppose siphoning strikes can you keep you alive as well, but that's sacrificing a lot of dps just for some heals. By your logic of "1 healing ability isn't enough", nightblades should also get some sort of dash skill.

Siphoning strikes reduces spell/melee power by 22%, that translated to a 10% dps loss, for that you get infinite resources... if you don`t want it give it here!

Any nerf to Bolt Escape should also come with a nerf to NB`s Invisibility, Dk`s immobilize and Molten Armor(it makes him take damage equal to 3% of his hp, no matter if the hit he took did 3000000 damage) and every charge ability.... if you can`t teleport in a row then you can`t charge, immobilize or go invisible in a row either.

That would be balance... are you reading ZENIMAX?

EDIT: Also, if you do anything to increase the cost/stop regen, sorcs need another spell absorb spell... since this one will be to expensive to cast.

ItsRejectz · May 2014

Matt.vanelsenb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm gonna say this without reading the other comments, so forgive me for repeating something. But where did you find these 3 siphoning abilities for nightblades? The only one that heals you is strife, and that's HoT, so it's not like it'll save your life mid-combat or anything. I suppose siphoning strikes can you keep you alive as well, but that's sacrificing a lot of dps just for some heals. By your logic of "1 healing ability isn't enough", nightblades should also get some sort of dash skill.

Swallow soul
Leeching strikes
Sap essence (though I'm not sure if it heals you or only allies.)
Refreshing path though it's a heal and not a siphon

Nightblades do have a type of "dash" skill, they can spam path of darkness. Also, add the stealth movment speed buff from concealed weapon, with the passives from vamps moving faster whilst stealthed, with the steed mundas stone and spam path of darkness and you can out pace a sorcerer whilst stealthed.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · May 2014

Cant nightblades just vanish in combat ? Isn't that the same as bolting away? Dk can just absorb everything and Templers heal, seems fine mages have a blink to me

Baphomet · May 2014

Sorcerers have good sustain, especially using blood magic and critical surge. When using crystal shards with critical surge, I can get ~ 450-500 health back on a crit. That is dragon blood good. With inner light, critical surge and impulse, I can charge into a group and spam impulse while I heal myself for more than I damage. Add bat swarm on top of that...

Critical surge and critical charge can show some pretty big heal numbers, too.

They definately need bolt escape as a class defining ability, but it needs to be changed slightly.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO · May 2014

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Every day somebody complains about bolt escape, well ill give you my opinion why it would destroy the class if anything happened.

Templar: Have a full tree to healing in Restoring Light

NightBlade: Have around 3 syphoning abilities that restore HP as well as a passive that boosts there effect

DragonKnight: Have 2 HP Regen abilities (Dragons blood and Inhale) as well as 2 passives that boost healing

Sorcerer: Has 1 HP regen ability and 1 HP boosting passive. Also, Sorcerer's HP ability will leave them idle for 3 seconds and reduce our stamina making us unable to block. There is one more ability that will heal slightly, but only once every 30 seconds and thats Twilight Matriarch.

Obviously, you can see our healing is very limited compared to other classes. This alone means, our only option is to escape and get to a safe distance to use Dark exchange..Removing or Nerfing bolt would mean when we use it, where stood in the enemies face for 3 seconds, it cant be spammed as it uses all your stamina and leaves you unable to block

People will say, but you can use a resto staff! That we can, but so can every other class. Even a DK can be swarmed by a mob, pop dragons blood, restoring heal and Inhale and have there hp full almost instantly, this can all be spammed and done whilst moving, this is not the case for our sorcerer.

Every class has abilities that root/snare - If you want people to stop spamming it, make it so it's usless when the user is rooted or snared. Then every class has a counter

First off Templar: Yes we got healing tree, but sorcerers with Purge and healing staff can do the job almost as easy and do more DPS if needed.. So sssst..

DK.. Dont even get me started on talons/Standard

Nightblade if siphoning ability's... so what ? Its a crap class atm..

Sorc: Just use freaking healing staff and your problem is gone, with purge you heal better maybe even then a templar ( not pvp ) Got more DPS, and also you got that stupid escape from.. ANYTHING !

Not saying you dont need it, im saying it should have a small cooldown

CapuchinSeven · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

LITERALLY all bolt escape does is rob the better player of AP once the sorcerer realizes he's certainly lost.

...as well as the ability to return and res an entire zerg, as we often do. In a PVP game designed around forcing dead players to return to battle the long way, it does way more than "rob the better player of a kill".

bean19 wrote: »

(tied with first if also a vampire), if you are a vamp like most NBs, NB get vamp skills, vamp vamp vamp vamp vamp vamp.

That is literally the argument you just posted, if you take vamp as a Nightblade you can make Nightblade comparable to a Sorc using a single class skill.

Morbus2 · May 2014

Btw, Bolt Escape doesn't even work anymore (stealth nerf, new bug?)

It works for a little while but you have to keep relogging when it stops working. Kinda' like the old vampire passive bug.

martinhpb16_ESO · May 2014

In all fairness Bolt Escape is OP compared to other escapes in the game.

I'm a vamp NB and no way are the two comparable. I rarely get away from a group using vamp mist.

From what I see Bolt escape is spammable and faster than sprinting.

Also sorc can kickass so saying they are weak is not viable in my book. Try playing NB then you see weak.

The skill needs bringing down a peg or two.

Phantorang · May 2014

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Every day somebody complains about bolt escape, well ill give you my opinion why it would destroy the class if anything happened.

Templar: Have a full tree to healing in Restoring Light

NightBlade: Have around 3 syphoning abilities that restore HP as well as a passive that boosts there effect

DragonKnight: Have 2 HP Regen abilities (Dragons blood and Inhale) as well as 2 passives that boost healing

Sorcerer: Has 1 HP regen ability and 1 HP boosting passive. Also, Sorcerer's HP ability will leave them idle for 3 seconds and reduce our stamina making us unable to block. There is one more ability that will heal slightly, but only once every 30 seconds and thats Twilight Matriarch.

Obviously, you can see our healing is very limited compared to other classes. This alone means, our only option is to escape and get to a safe distance to use Dark exchange..Removing or Nerfing bolt would mean when we use it, where stood in the enemies face for 3 seconds, it cant be spammed as it uses all your stamina and leaves you unable to block

People will say, but you can use a resto staff! That we can, but so can every other class. Even a DK can be swarmed by a mob, pop dragons blood, restoring heal and Inhale and have there hp full almost instantly, this can all be spammed and done whilst moving, this is not the case for our sorcerer.

Every class has abilities that root/snare - If you want people to stop spamming it, make it so it's usless when the user is rooted or snared. Then every class has a counter

You completely left out the fact that sorcerers got pets, how convenient.

Sorcerer also got the games single most powerful self heal, who needs a templar?

All classes got 3 different ability trees, you chose pets, templar chose heals, whats your point?

The rest of us are just sick of sorcs being able to escape in a key press, while it is impossible to escape from the sorc.

Bolt needs to be nerfed heavy, make is useless in cyrodiil at least. Or at least only castable once in an hour or so. Nerf the ability to use it as the most effective way of transportation in the game, its just ridiculous.

And when you say

Every class has abilities that root/snare - If you want people to stop spamming it, make it so it's usless when the user is rooted or snared. Then every class has a counter

You almost make it seem like it isnt possible to break free from roots, but it is, EASY, so to even suggest that would make it ok only proves you know its completely ÜBER POWERED, you are in your mind suggesting a balancing nerf to the Bolt ability, knowing the so called "nerf" would NOT change anything.

Maulkin · May 2014

With my main being a DK I have to be careful when I criticise other classes abilities for fear of being called a hypocrite but anyways...

I believe it's one of those skills (like shield bash was) that serves a very real and practical purpose in PvE but is being abused in PvP.

Firstly, I have to call bs on Sorcs who say it isn't being abused and it isn't spammable. Even if you're flat out of magicka in a fight, you can pop a potion and with the cost reduction of light armour + jewellery you can cast it 3 times to not only extricate yourself from the fight but to leave the whole battlefield altogether. I know, I roll a sorc as an alt.

Secondly, the excuse that sorcs need it because they're squishy is a gross exaggeration if not a complete lie. Everybody, through enchants and food, can max 2/3 attribute pools and most of the Sorcs in my guild have about 2.8k HP and 2.2k Magicka. On top of that, because stamina abilities are so underpowered, everyone except NBs deals exclusively magic damage and sorcs are soft-capped on Spell Res. So not so squishy after all.

Finally, the so-called lack of heals is quite far from the truth. Sure there's no one-button heal like Dragon Blood, and Dark Exchange cannot really be used in combat. However my sorc has 58% spell crit and you can imagine how well that works with Critical Surge. If anything I can deal damage while I'm healing.

I'm still not sure what the best way to nerf it is without making it unusable and I wouldn't want that to happen, it's a cool skill. Maybe an increased cost for use within 2 secs of last cast, going up with every use? So that you can only use it twice in quick succession, maybe thrice if your magicka bar was full at the start?

Maulkin · May 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Any nerf to Bolt Escape should also come with a nerf to NB`s Invisibility, Dk`s immobilize and Molten Armor(it makes him take damage equal to 3% of his hp, no matter if the hit he took did 3000000 damage) and every charge ability.... if you can`t teleport in a row then you can`t charge, immobilize or go invisible in a row either.

That would be balance... are you reading ZENIMAX?

Well the NB invisibility hardly ever gets them out of trouble with so many gap closing skills and their whole class is broken to boot.

The Talons already had a nerf (albeit minor) and it doesn't affect sorcs anyway cause they can teleport right throught it.

Magma Armour is an ultimate not a spammable ability.

The shield charge is the only useful skill in PvP for the entire S&B tree plus by casting your teleport twice you're out of range anyway. Never seen anyone spam charge, unless they are chasing multi-teleport sorcs that is.

If a DK can't use Talons in a row maybe a Sorc shouldn't be able to use Encase or Rune Prison in a row either? We'll see how long you survive in Solo PvE questing then....

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

Tuttebel wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

LITERALLY all healing does is rob the better player of AP once the insert class here realizes he's certainly lost.

Here, fixed it for you ...

bg22 wrote: »

No other class has a sure "escape after losing", neither should you. You lost? Face it, give me my earned AP. The ONLY way it should be a sure escape is if you cast it at the BEGINNING of combat, not when you've fought long enough to be taken down to 15%.

Yeah, this makes complete sense ... /facepalm.
Do you blow all your heals at the start of a fight? I use bolt escape if the fight doesn't go well for me, grab some distance and use dark exchange ... that gives you 3 seconds to either heal up or come after me. Or do both ... heal up while coming for me.
The skill works just fine. It ports me for 15 meters. 15! Not 150.

This is far from a 100% escape spell, I've been killed countless times by players who were either paying attention or teaming up on me.

Also ... as long as I have the hitpoints and magicka to get away ... I haven't lost. I don't owe you anything. Fat lady hasn't sung and all that jazz.

LOL

We'll all take that LOL as you not having a valid argument.

Tankzo · May 2014

Wow, you could wash an 18-wheeler with the tears in this post.

Those that say Bolt Escape is OP haven't played a Sorc. That is one EXPENSIVE cast. At most you get 3 to 5 casts from FULL mana on B.E. If you are in PVP, you shouldn't have a whole lot of mana left, so you are left with 1 maybe 2 casts.

If you want to talk about OP, DK's heal like crazy, Temps Heal like crazy, NB can stealth attack a Sorc for 75%+ of his total HP.

Yeah, if the mage can B.E. out, he can B.E. out. Each class has strengths and the Sorc can escape. Stop QQing about it.

Really bg22, "LITERALLY all bolt escape does is rob the better player of AP" Really? If you were really the better player, your NB would waste the Sorc before he could B.E. because he should be at 25% or less after your opening attack. Stop the QQ dude.

Enderus · May 2014

I'm not exactly sure how this is OP in pvp. If a sorcerer escapes, he's essentially been taken out of the fight. His escape doesn't grant him anything other than a chance to fight again without having to respawn a fair distance away. This doesn't help him take/protect a keep or an outpost, nor does it really help him take out enemy players or equipment.

The most it does is rob someone of a kill, or lead kill hungry fools on a wild goose chase. Or, possibly allowing him to return and revive allies. In-which case you shouldn't have a difficult time finding him since you'd know exactly where to expect him.

The only case I can think of where it might be a concern, and I haven't encountered this personally, is if a group of sorcerers use it to bounce into a fight, AOE, and then bounce out. Or something to that effect.

Soloeus · May 2014

Nightblades can go invisible and run away, denying me of AP that I should have been allowed to earn.

CapuchinSeven · May 2014

bean19 wrote: »

Wow, you could wash an 18-wheeler with the tears in this post.

Doesn't help your argument in any way.

bean19 wrote: »

Those that say Bolt Escape is OP haven't played a Sorc.

Nope, sorry I do.

Soloeus wrote: »

Nightblades can go invisible and run away, denying me of AP that I should have been allowed to earn.

Nope, sorry I have a NightBlade and it's like chalk and cheese.

FunkyBudda · May 2014

WilliamTee wrote: »

yes, greater mobility is a viable alternative to self heals... but for moderately worse healing you should only compensate with moderately better mobility...

A spammable teleport is not moderate. #justsayin

Spammable CCs and gap closers shouldn't be ok either. I am perfectly fine to have Bolt nerfed if other class CCs and gap closers have added diminishing returns or cool downs, that's call balance.

kieso · May 2014

right now I play all classes except templar and imo bolt escape is broken.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · May 2014

Here's the main thing we want: make these BE spammers pick their battles more wisely.

You should pay if you get in over your head like the other classes - not be able to "oops" out of it.

The offset for the lack of survivability of, say, the DK is the incredible single target ranged DPS. You also have bound armour and bubbles that are more effective than any heal you could want. Seriously... what more do you want to make Sorcerer easymode?

Rosanna_Foxfire · May 2014

So, what I'm getting here is that I'm not allowed to run away in PvP if things go bad. I'm to just take the armor durability hit, pay my dues like a good little Khajiit.

I've got a non-standard build, because I'm playing the game for fun, not to win. A nerf to bolt-escape would make the ability utterly useless to me. It costs a lot of Magicka as it is, just because someone can run away from you does not make an ability OP.

Maulkin · May 2014

Rosanna_Foxfire wrote: »

So, what I'm getting here is that I'm not allowed to run away in PvP if things go bad.

What comes as so natural to you, getting away from a losing fight, is something no one else has. So yeah, if I play it wrong and things go bad I *shock, horror* die and respawn. No get-out-of-jail-free card.

Rosanna_Foxfire wrote: »

I'm to just take the armor durability hit, pay my dues like a good little Khajiit.

There's no armour durability cost when dying from players in PvP, so....... No?

Rosanna_Foxfire wrote: »

I've got a non-standard build, because I'm playing the game for fun, not to win. A nerf to bolt-escape would make the ability utterly useless to me.

Why would a nerf necessarily make it useless, please explain? Especially when there are several different ways to nerf it so it can still be useful but that cannot be spammed? Shield bash was useful in PvE too, it got nerfed to the ground because of PvP and rightly so cause it was like Bolt Escape being abused.

Rosanna_Foxfire wrote: »

It costs a lot of Magicka as it is

Not really, at 49 Magicka base cost, it's a medium cost spell. Considering the spell reduction passives sorcs have, it's even less. The DKs Talons that everyone kept complaining about till it got nerfed has a higher base cost at 53.

Rosanna_Foxfire wrote: »

Just because someone can run away from you does not make an ability OP.

If there's no way to counter it, it is. The best anyone can do when snared or immobilised is roll and thus stay within melee range, but the Sorc can bolt escape right out of both, stun me in the process and either do damage or gain ranged attack immunity to boot!

Then pop a mana pot, escape another 40 meters away, use Dark Exchange and come back for seconds. No, you're right the more I think about it the more normal this sounds :P

dbennett707cub18_ESO · May 2014

Critical Surge = One of the best self heals in the game, anything else?

Maulkin · May 2014

Enderus wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure how this is OP in pvp. If a sorcerer escapes, he's essentially been taken out of the fight. His escape doesn't grant him anything other than a chance to fight again without having to respawn a fair distance away. This doesn't help him take/protect a keep or an outpost, nor does it really help him take out enemy players or equipment.

Come on now, don't be silly. Dying and spawning 5 minutes away takes you out of a fight. Teleporting 30 meters away, replenishing your magicka and health with Dark Exchange and coming back 5-6 secs later to DPS me again does not take you out of the fight and it very much affects my ability to take that outpost.

Enderus wrote: »

The most it does is rob someone of a kill, or lead kill hungry fools on a wild goose chase.

Well you would indeed be a fool to chase as you can't catch up. Believe it or not a lot of players play PvP to actually *surprise, surprise* kill other players?

Enderus wrote: »

The only case I can think of where it might be a concern, and I haven't encountered this personally, is if a group of sorcerers use it to bounce into a fight, AOE, and then bounce out. Or something to that effect.

Do they have to be groups? Single sorcs do it all the time.They BE right through areas with siege like caltrops and oil too, to get straight at you then BE right out again

Liquid_Time · May 2014

Bolt Escape:
Annoying, yes. Sure escape, no.

NB's are able to attack (often kill) 1-2 targets and flee. Successfully might I add. I run a vamp build with my NB and I love every minute of it. I have survived some crazy fights due to the ability of being able to flee and be hidden very quickly. Now just like the bolt escape.. I am NOT able to escape all of the time, but it does increase my survivability greatly. Which is a must have for any "Squishy" build.

Note One: I would also like to add that I am simply a V1 NB and if I am able have such a high K/D as I do now.. then the higher vet levels are only going get better (PvP of course).

Edit-
Note Two: I run with bow/duel wield.

Calgrissom · May 2014

Is there not a Sorc Ability that returns around 50% of damage done on a critical hit in health? I may be wrong but im sure my Sorc buddie told me this. He heals himself pretty regularly with this ability as he has a 52% crit rate.

dbennett707cub18_ESO · May 2014

Calgrissom wrote: »

Is there not a Sorc Ability that returns around 50% of damage done on a critical hit in health? I may be wrong but im sure my Sorc buddie told me this. He heals himself pretty regularly with this ability as he has a 52% crit rate.

its 65% of crit dmg in healing and yes, its called critical surge.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO · May 2014

Are people seriously comparing NB stealth to sorc blink? lmfao

dbennett707cub18_ESO · May 2014

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

Are people seriously comparing NB stealth to sorc blink? lmfao

Probably don't realize one has a counter and one doesn't.

Liquid_Time · May 2014

@the.dzeneralb16_ESO
Yes. Yes they are. Might I ask why they cannot be compared?

dbennett707cub18_ESO · May 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

@the.dzeneralb16_ESO
Yes. Yes they are. Might I ask why they cannot be compared?

Probably because NB/Templar are bottom of the food chain atm. NB Stealth CAN get you away, but doesn't have near the success rate bolt escape does. Invisibility also comes in potion form so it's accessible by anyone. If there was something to counter bolt escape, like magelight does to shadow cloak, i'm sure it woudln't be complained about near as much.