badmojo wrote: »

I think part of the problem is a lot of you guys are looking at this mechanic only from a players perspective and not even considering a game developers perspective.

I am looking at it from a players point of view because I am a frustrated player.

I look at it from a "what is best for the game" point of view because I want this to be a good game.

I look at it from a "company's bottom line" point of view because I don't want it to fail.

The game developers gave us a crap bank system to slow down crafting system. I see their point of view and strongly disagree with it.

Perhaps that's why I'm the odd one who enjoys the mini-game of inventory management.

I love mini games.

Please tell me how you play so i can enjoy it?

I'll set up the scene.....

You just got back from adventuring, ready to play your banking mini game! your bank is full and your bags, after selling junk is still pretty full.

And play. Explain this fun romp of a time. Please.

@badmojo‌
So having 500 slots of guild bank space for personal use is not immersion breaking, but 200 slots of personal bank space is? Seems a little inconsistent.

The only way I've manged to deal with the inventory issue is to simply refuse to craft and sell everything. There's not enough inventory space and repair bills are insane enough to basically require putting all your gold into it.

Chrysolis wrote: »

@badmojo‌
So having 500 slots of guild bank space for personal use is not immersion breaking, but 200 slots of personal bank space is? Seems a little inconsistent.

Not really, I put in the work of starting up a guild with a friend and getting people to join it. In real life that would get you a guild hall with storage space. It sucks that we just get expanded bank space, but I don't feel like it breaks immersion to be rewarded for being a guildmaster.

Why are you trying to find fault in my immersion consistency? Do you think finding some fault in immersion is going to blow my mind? Or invalidate my pointing to immersion as the reason I don't like your suggestions?

I'm just here sharing my opinion, on this forum. I hate having to constantly defend them like I'm running for president. If you don't like how I feel about the issues at hand, ignore my posts and live your life. If I respond to you, tell me you're not interested in a discussion with me, I'll drop it.

It seems that those with an opinion that there is a good reason for it being the way it is are just entirely dismissed, even when we give good reasons (server side storage, breaking the economy, etc).

Do you think ZoS realy just wants to annoy their game base and drive you all away? That's pretty silly.

Back in beta, we had HALF the inventory we do now. HALF! Enough people complained about it that they doubled it. They listened to the player base about this issue already, and have given us larger inventories.

It isn't to dismiss your concerns entirely, because I know you are right insofar as inventory can become extremely unfun and unweildly. I admit that.
I started out doing every single craft (3 on 2 different characters. One character did all the BS, WW, cloth, the other did alchemy, enchanting, and provisioning).

I used to spend almost half my game time screwing with my inventory. I hated it. I hated it so much that I...dropped alchemy! That helped a lot. I decided to focus on provisioning and enchanting as a side dish.

Then I started playing my alt more (now my main), and after hitting 30 or so and still hating inventory management, I dropped blacksmithing! I looked at my character and thought, I'm wearing robes, my other character wears leather, I use mostly staffs and bows. If I do want a sword, I can ask another crafter. I made a decision to STOP playing the inventory micromanaging game, and focus on the crafts I found the most useful. I still decon Green+ blue metal drops, but I sell off the mats.

Now inventory management is not a big hassle anymore, and I have enjoyed both leveling and crafting FAR more.

It really is about choice. The OP (and many others) are choosing to play the micromanaging inventory game by max leveling every craft or whatever, and then complaining about it. No one is forcing you to level all crafts. It...is...a...choice. Choices have consequences, some of them are not the consequences you most desire.

I guess that is the part I don't get. Because I was in your shoes a while back, but I realized I had to make the changes, it was up to me. Don't like the inventory mini-game? Great, you are right, it isn't fun. Then STOP doing it! I mean, seriously.

I mean that in a nice way, lol.

In all seriousness, I do hope Zeni gives us all some better inventory management tools (as a very serious provisioner, I mean, I REALLY need this!), and I also hope that people suffering these headaches find a happy way to deal with them.

Cheers!

@badmojo‌
I was pointing out that a large part of your claim was immersion, in which you have to select what you want and what you don't; and how it doesn't make sense so much could be stored in those banks. Meanwhile, you're packing as much stuff in that guild bank as I have across all of my mules. Furthermore, doesn't having to switch out between 4 characters to bank your gear break immersion?

I'm not sure why you suddenly got so hostile considering I hardly said anything. I pointed out your inconsistency because it's really strange to make an argument that you don't even follow yourself. The reason you might find yourself defending your position is because you're arguing that inventory limitations should be imposed on the rest of us while you, yourself, are in a far more advantageous position. Having a guild bank is not a zero sum equation; there are 10 people that don't get one for every 1 that does.

its called mules and the bank manager addon.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Please tell me how you play so i can enjoy it?

I'll set up the scene.....

You just got back from adventuring, ready to play your banking mini game! your bank is full and your bags, after selling junk is still pretty full.

And play. Explain this fun romp of a time. Please.

If you really want to know how I've decided to deal with my inventory, start by reading the 6th post in this thread. Basically, I've taken advantage of everything available to me.

I did not ask for advice.

I want to hear about this fun mini game.

BTW, I noticed you use the 500 guild bank as your storage. Why?

Would it not be more fun just to use your personal bank? Isn't that more challenging? More of a mini banking game?

While I'm on the subject, why don't you ask ZOS to half your bank space? Isn't a smaller bank more fun for you?

And you have 4 mules????

"After that I have 4 characters who hold associated materials. Tailor, Blacksmith, Woodworker, Alchemist. Leaving 4 main accounts for me to play on, which are the four classes & three factions."

I can't take you seriously. I won't be chatting with you anymore.

You have 4 mules and you use a guild bank for your personal items and you say there is nothing wrong with the current bank system.

Get the F out of here.

See this is my problem with this whole thread. Using the resources at EVERY players disposal, I can make my inventory extremely easy to manage. I can even deal with using less.

But for some strange reason people like you want to gimp yourself by doing every craft on one character and ignoring the guild bank possibilities.

And I don't have 4 mules, I have 4 alts that I use for crafting. They need these materials for their job, and there's no space in the bank so it goes in their inventory.

I think the only thing about inventory expansion I would agree with is the trophy/pets/CEmaps being put in quest items or something that didn't count towards the limit. I opened the first set I got, big mistake.

In other words, crafting mules. And at the people saying we have more room, no we don't banks always maxed at 240 and bags at 110 for a very very long time prelaunch. Get your facts straight. Many games implement large stacks and crafting bags because managing inventory isn't fun, some basic management is fine and expected but the sheer item quantity bloat in this game on some crafts makes it prohibitive and tedious. Not hard, just tedious and a waste of time.

I should have been clear, starting inventory was doubled, meaning you don't have to buy the first few upgrades anymore. I did not mean max capacity inventory. Even when leveling all crafts, I never upgraded anything all the way. I found the doubled starting bank and bag inventory quite helpful, personally. Sorry for the confusion.

Chrysolis wrote: »

@badmojo‌
I was pointing out that a large part of your claim was immersion, in which you have to select what you want and what you don't; and how it doesn't make sense so much could be stored in those banks. Meanwhile, you're packing as much stuff in that guild bank as I have across all of my mules. Furthermore, doesn't having to switch out between 4 characters to bank your gear break immersion?

I'm not sure why you suddenly got so hostile considering I hardly said anything. I pointed out your inconsistency because it's really strange to make an argument that you don't even follow yourself. The reason you might find yourself defending your position is because you're arguing that inventory limitations should be imposed on the rest of us while you, yourself, are in a far more advantageous position. Having a guild bank is not a zero sum equation; there are 10 people that don't get one for every 1 that does.

It's a video game, so the act of switching between characters is obviously immersion breaking. But the actual results from these restrictions is immersion building in my opinion. In a world such as this, people aren't typically a master of carpentry, blacksmithing, tailoring, alchemical magic, enchanting, cooking, and a bunch of other stuff, all at once. People of Nirn might have some knowledge of each skill, but to master them all should be quite the accomplishment and in no way easy.

Basically, my 4 crafting characters are young up and comers in their chosen field. They will strive to be the best in that field and that field alone. Perhaps later they'll move on to other skills. In order to truly master a skill, I feel one needs to be completely immersed in that pursuit. Dedicating their time(skill points) and hard work(farming mats/holding mats) to the cause is something I would expect of any apprentice trying to become a master in their art.

About the guild bank being not available to everyone. I don't buy it. At least not at those odds. We get to join 5 guilds. If the entire population of ESO was 100, and everyone started their own guild, there would still be 400 people to join 100 guilds. So, 44 out of 100 guilds would get filled in a perfect scenario because you need to recruit 9 players. So, about 1 in 2 people should have guild banks.*In a perfect world*

All that said, I've already talked about the guild bank 500slots just making it less of a hassle for me to do enchanting and provisioning at a lazy pace, and to basically be the hoarder we all instinctively want to be. If it wasn't available to me I could still make it work.

Back when I decided to take advantage of the guild bank feature, I had the same opinion as you. Angry about having to trash or sell stuff. It felt like I had to spend all this time doing all this stuff or else I was missing out on something. So, I ran the idea of starting a guild and dumping all our crap in the storage to my faithful companion, and we started recruiting or bribing members to join, welcoming people, and then basically leaving it at that. I think the only advantage I have over other people is that I thought of doing it so soon after release, when more people were active in the game, and people were in fewer guild so they were open to joining.

I just think saying owning a guild of 10 people isn't available to everyone is just making excuses. For starters, not everyone wants their own personal guild bank. Not everybody plays enough to require that extra room, they just want to get into combat and make the most of their playtime. Strike up a business deal with one of those players to join your guild, offer him sword upgrades or whatever tickles his fancy. The guild is fueling your crafting after all, there's always some give and take when learning skills in this game.

Edit: I guess I never really finished my thought about being angry at the system when I first started playing, I was going to say since going through the motions of having all these crafting characters and having the guild bank space to fill up at my leisure, I've figured out that what I end up missing out on while dealing with all that, is actually playing the game. Trying to be 5 or 6 people all at once is going to be a hassle, no matter how much inventory space you throw at it.

Eventually I realized that it's better for my enjoyment to focus on one characters specializations and not try to rush everything all at once on 8 different characters. It's not too difficult to ignore some crafts without being wasteful. How many low level tempers do you really need? Or aspect runes? How many precious finds do you really have to deal with on a daily basis? For me it's more than manageable to save the rare stuff and just vendor the small stuff.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Reducing the cost of bank slots would go a long way to upset a great many people who already purchased them and gold is not hard to get in this game.

They should give each character their own bank space on top of the shared one.

Personal bank tab would be more trouble than it is worth, Just add more available slots or take away the account bank and make it toon based which also means we cannot move bound equipment between toons but there is a cost to everything and this is the way many games do it (I prefer the account bank).

You can have a personal bank space for each character and a shared bank.

Right now ESO is more trouble than it's worth. That is why people are leaving in droves.

You like ESO? Then stop fighting ideas that will help the game.

TicToc wrote: »

You are trying way to hard to convince people that there's not a problem.

It's all well and good that you found a way for YOU to have less of a problem. Many people don't want to give up crafting. For some people crafting is a huge part of their enjoyment of MMO's. You shouldn't have to choose between crafting and enjoying the game. Crafting is part of the game and should be enjoyable.

There is nothing written in stone that says that things have to stay the way they are, so you don't need to defend it so vigorously. The fact is that if things stay the way they are they will lose customers. They already have. I recently saw one of the addon developers post that he will no longer be supporting his addon because he is cancelling his subscription, indicating inventory management as one of the main reasons.

There are people that play f2p MMO's and never spend a cent. They have learned to be very minimalistic. It works for them, but many MMO players want the full MMO experience. This is a subscription based game, and people are expecting the full MMO experience.

Inventory management IS a problem. You have found workarounds for yourself. Great. Most people are not going to do that. Many, like those in this thread, will complain in hopes that something will change. Many more will just quit without saying a word.

First of all, I explain myself in such depth not because I actually care about convincing people of my beliefs and opinions. I just enjoy a good debate about video game design theory, and I don't mind going into great detail if the discussion requires it. Please don't let my persistence in this issue lead you to believe that I'm scrambling to maintain some kind of advantage that I get from the current system. Or that I want to punish you guys because I don't care about it myself.

I honestly believe the game is better with the inventory space being limited to this degree. If people want to leave the game over a part of the game I like, so be it, I don't want to see the game fail by any means, but I can't sacrifice my preference for the good of the majority, I'm a selfish gamer I guess.

badmojo wrote: »

It's a video game, so the act of switching between characters is obviously immersion breaking. But the actual results from these restrictions is immersion building in my opinion. In a world such as this, people aren't typically a master of carpentry, blacksmithing, tailoring, alchemical magic, enchanting, cooking, and a bunch of other stuff, all at once. People of Nirn might have some knowledge of each skill, but to master them all should be quite the accomplishment and in no way easy.



About the guild bank being not available to everyone. I don't buy it. At least not at those odds. We get to join 5 guilds. If the entire population of ESO was 100, and everyone started their own guild, there would still be 400 people to join 100 guilds. So, 44 out of 100 guilds would get filled in a perfect scenario because you need to recruit 9 players. So, about 1 in 2 people should have guild banks.*In a perfect world*

All that said, I've already talked about the guild bank 500slots just making it less of a hassle for me to do enchanting and provisioning at a lazy pace, and to basically be the hoarder we all instinctively want to be. If it wasn't available to me I could still make it work.

Back when I decided to take advantage of the guild bank feature, I had the same opinion as you. Angry about having to trash or sell stuff. It felt like I had to spend all this time doing all this stuff or else I was missing out on something. So, I ran the idea of starting a guild and dumping all our crap in the storage to my faithful companion, and we started recruiting or bribing members to join, welcoming people, and then basically leaving it at that. I think the only advantage I have over other people is that I thought of doing it so soon after release, when more people were active in the game, and people were in fewer guild so they were open to joining.

I just think saying owning a guild of 10 people isn't available to everyone is just making excuses. For starters, not everyone wants their own personal guild bank. Not everybody plays enough to require that extra room, they just want to get into combat and make the most of their playtime. Strike up a business deal with one of those players to join your guild, offer him sword upgrades or whatever tickles his fancy. The guild is fueling your crafting after all, there's always some give and take when learning skills in this game.



Eventually I realized that it's better for my enjoyment to focus on one characters specializations and not try to rush everything all at once on 8 different characters. It's not too difficult to ignore some crafts without being wasteful. How many low level tempers do you really need? Or aspect runes? How many precious finds do you really have to deal with on a daily basis? For me it's more than manageable to save the rare stuff and just vendor the small stuff.

Like your post! I as in a simular situation in the start....but somehow our guild who aimed to be a small guild, open guildbank to all members and everyone know eachother......we grown during the weeks. And we are VERY particular with who we invite.

Now we are 55, and for the first time, I had to set up bank rules. Not that anyone took something wrong. We havnt had a single problem with that.
Just junk people put in. But after the rules, works fine.

Just me who have to spend gametime to sort bank twice a day really, but it well worth it, cause not only do we have guildmembers with all tradeskills (2 per main), we got the important mats for veteran level blue and purple buffs (I do those) and we got plenty of potions for everyone to take when needed, and when most of us grows over 50, we have mats for all kinds of gear to make good stuffs if we want.

The enchanting IS big thing and takes space, so we all just mail our 2 guild enchanters and they fix it. Works great. When we get upgrades and need some sort of enchant on it, one of em can probebly fix it.

we are cheating a little bit. Since we are more then 50, the guild store opened up. We decided not to sell to members in it, but to use it as an extended guildbank. Bit cheating but since we are closing 45-50 most of us, we get kinda cool drops that are upgrades for someone. So they get put in guildbank. Someone needs it and takes. Works.....

Cogo wrote: »

I think the main problem with alot of concerns and unhappyness about ESO, is that people do not see it as ESO, but expecting features they are used to from other games.

There is a reason why people expect certain features from a game and why other games have them. Having a crappy inventory/bank system just for a sake of being different doesn't sound very smart to me.
Using the inventory and bank system in ESO feels like i have gone back in time for 15 years playing muds, except even those had better system.