Inventory is unmanageable

Potenza · May 2014

Stop trying to hoard everything - put it to use - sell to merchant -craft items - deconstruct items. Don't try to master every crafting skill. After a session of questing, hunting and dungeons and my pack is full - I take a break, go to town unload all of the crap - sell or decon - then go back out with a clean pack.

Man, is it that hard to do? and YES this has been discussed - boringly - many times before if you read the forums.

Chrysolis · May 2014

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Stop trying to hoard everything - put it to use - sell to merchant -craft items - deconstruct items. Don't try to master every crafting skill. After a session of questing, hunting and dungeons and my pack is full - I take a break, go to town unload all of the crap - sell or decon - then go back out with a clean pack.

Man, is it that hard to do? and YES this has been discussed - boringly - many times before if you read the forums.

Just astounding. You're the exact type of person I just addressed in the post above yours.

Starlifter88 · May 2014

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Stop trying to hoard everything - put it to use - sell to merchant -craft items - deconstruct items. Don't try to master every crafting skill. After a session of questing, hunting and dungeons and my pack is full - I take a break, go to town unload all of the crap - sell or decon - then go back out with a clean pack.

Man, is it that hard to do? and YES this has been discussed - boringly - many times before if you read the forums.

Please answer the OP's question. Why would having more inventory space from the start be a bad thing?

My characters should be the vestige taking on Molag Bal, not some supply clerk playing a logistics game back at town X. And no I do not hoard; however, my kill/sort ratio is pretty low.

Orizuru · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

If the problem doesn't effect you then that's fine, move along. If you have some point to make as to why the inventory should remain small, make it (though nobody yet has). There is no negative consequence to having a larger inventory for those who need it.

Except there are consequences to increasing inventory space for everyone.

The devs have already stated quite bluntly that inventory size is meant to limit your ability to level all the crafting skills at the same time. It's intended to force you to narrow your focus when crafting if you want to have space in your inventory for other things.

When you understand the design philosophy, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that the developers will desire to take other actions to limit crafting in other ways that could end up reducing the options available to all players in unknown ways.

Besides, simply adding more inventory space won't solve your problem. It just delays the problem. If you don't enjoy organizing and managing 100 inventory slots, you won't enjoy it 200 or 300 either. You can just ignore the problem for a longer period of time before the game forces you do something about it.

I see asking for more inventory space as a form of procrastination really.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

I have no problem with my inventory, and I havent yet gotten the last bag and bank upgrade. I have about 130 spots right now, and I can quest for 2-3 hours before full and picking EVERYTHING up. I think the OP has a management issue, not the game.

Davorn · May 2014

I agree something should be done with inventory. I'd love to see a smaller shared bank and each character getting their own normal sized bank.

Chrysolis · May 2014

Orizuru wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

If the problem doesn't effect you then that's fine, move along. If you have some point to make as to why the inventory should remain small, make it (though nobody yet has). There is no negative consequence to having a larger inventory for those who need it.

Except there are consequences to increasing inventory space for everyone.

The devs have already stated quite bluntly that inventory size is meant to limit your ability to level all the crafting skills at the same time. It's intended to force you to narrow your focus when crafting if you want to have space in your inventory for other things.

When you understand the design philosophy, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that the developers will desire to take other actions to limit crafting in other ways that could end up reducing the options available to all players in unknown ways.

Besides, simply adding more inventory space won't solve your problem. It just delays the problem. If you don't enjoy organizing and managing 100 inventory slots, you won't enjoy it 200 or 300 either. You can just ignore the problem for a longer period of time before the game forces you do something about it.

I see asking for more inventory space as a form of procrastination really.

The amount of inventory space needed is finite. It's not like I'm just holding onto things because I don't want to take the time to sell or deconstruct them. So yes, more inventory space would solve my problem. That's why I'm proposing these solutions.

I've mentioned this before, but even if a character was limited to 1 craft at a time we're only talking about 5 necessary characters in concordance with the 5 crafts. The space utilized is more than that. Unless you're saying that one person's account should only support a limited number of crafts, which I simply don't and will not agree with.

Lodestar · May 2014

Orizuru wrote: »

The devs have already stated quite bluntly that inventory size is meant to limit your ability to level all the crafting skills at the same time. It's intended to force you to narrow your focus when crafting if you want to have space in your inventory for other things.

When you understand the design philosophy, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that the developers will desire to take other actions to limit crafting in other ways that could end up reducing the options available to all players in unknown ways.

Ah, "play anyway you want" in full glory again.

Well if that be true, than all the more reason to give each character a bank each. Since, then we would not be sharing banks between them all, and characters are limited in how many crafts they want.

Can't see why the devs wanted it, and just because they did, does not mean it is a good idea. But, myself I don;t want any of my characters to craft more than 2 professions anyway. But that is me.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

How many slots do you think is enough? We already get more slots than every other game out there.

ShinChuck · May 2014

It's not unmanageable, but it's certainly unwieldy and, for many, an unenjoyable hurdle that gets in the way of some well-written, fun questing. I'd like to see some changes, either fewer materials, more spaces, or things like pet/costume/disguise/etcetera inventories.

FrauPerchta · May 2014

Paid bank/bag space rather than increases in space when you hit certain levels is all about the F2P phase that ESO will enter in a year or so.

Just look at STO (Star Trek Online). When it first came out you earned increased inventory space. My Admirals were topped out on space. I took a break then returned well into it's F2P phase with the Romulan expansion I found the new Rommie I rolled had little inventory space, I figured as ranked my space would increase, it didn't. And it wouldn't unless I paid real money for bank slots. Same with the account bank which was new to me in STO as at release there wasn't an account bank.

So give it awhile, ESO will go F2P then you can have all the inventory space your real life money can buy.

F2P mmos make more money than P2P mmos according to several game sites so you know it's gonna happen. Have read that F2P mmos make 2 to 3 times the income of a P2P game. And considering the amount of money I have dumped into World of Tanks I don't doubt it.

jquestb16_ESO2 · May 2014

It's not that they want to make inventory fun or realistic. The reason for limiting banks and bags is server space. Each character is stored on a server, the more items the bigger the file size of your toon becomes. It's like asking icloud why can't we have unlimited space for free?

Cause it costs $$$ think how big that database would be if everyone had unlimited bag space.

theyancey · May 2014

I had a great day playing. No lag, crashes, or game issues at all. Lots of fun. 'Cepting I got two more trophies. Two less inventory spots than I started the day with.

Lodestar · May 2014

jquestb16_ESO2 wrote: »

It's not that they want to make inventory fun or realistic. The reason for limiting banks and bags is server space. Each character is stored on a server, the more items the bigger the file size of your toon becomes. It's like asking icloud why can't we have unlimited space for free?

Cause it costs $$$ think how big that database would be if everyone had unlimited bag space.

Now this is far more believable, than some unsubstantiated vision of a devs dream being peddled. I am inclined to think unless some real citation is presented, it is internet rumour.

Ignoring the fact, that ZOS raked in all that preorder sales and box revenue, and not investing in better hardware for maybe very good reasons or not (no idea so will not speculate). Would it then not make better sense to make a few alterations to the way mats work? So we need less types of them? do like we said with trophies and pets so they take up no space, seeing as they make enough difference, yet not so much server strain? And again, what about increasing stack capacity? How would that impact it?

orablast · May 2014

I think the inventory management is OK, but it could use a few tweaks. As others have said, a nice solution would be to allow trophies, costumes, and maps to go to the Quest inventory section. I don't feel like that is asking too much.

karnam75preub18_ESO · May 2014

I Agree. the time that I waste in inventory management is becoming intolerable. The time that I am having fun in the game is declining while the drudgery is increasing...exponentially. I think you can see where I am going with this.
I would hate to see this issue break the game, but I fear that is what is going to happen. It Is written in the scrolls.

Thulsola · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

I don't really understand if, or how the current system was designed to work. The shared bank is nice for transferring between alts, but the irony is that I can't afford to have any alts because all other 7 of my character slots are mules. I only keep relevant-level materials (and sell the lower ones) and I have about every add-on dedicated to inventory management. Something really needs to be done about this; though I do like my main character, I don't even currently feel like I have the option to make an alt.

...

Guild banks are not a solution for personal inventory - they are a workaround for a select few that don't mind dedicating an entire guild slot just to this. Few people are willing to simply give you one of their guild slots so you can have a bank. If you share, there are huge risks involved. Regardless of that, it should not be required.

Let me first say that I do spend a great deal of time managing inventory, deconstructing, crafting and other such activities in towns. I actually enjoy the time it takes - for the most part - but I agree it can be improved. My suggestions for improvement can be found here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/104288/seperating-bags-for-improved-gameplay.

Having said that, I don't have any issue with space, and I'm not even close to maxed out - and I'm leveling 4 crafting skills at the same time.

I disagree with you that a guild bank is not a viable solution. You have 5 guild slots. Using one of them for a fun, helpful guild collective is not a burden. The 60+ member guild that I am in has a guild bank that we all agree to share our common crafting and provisioning items on: trait gems, weapon/armour enhancement gems, and common provisioning items. We also use our guild store to provide cheap decon and other such items to our fellow guild members. We cooperate, and we all gain by it.

So having a guild bank with all the common stuff clears out a fair amount of room. I keep unfinished stacks of raw mats in my personal inventory. So raw wood, cloth, leather, ore and alchemy regents. I also keep the unfinished stacks of rarer provisioning items in my bag. Full stacks get moved to my bank, along with tannins and the rarer provisioning mats I am hording.

When everything in my inventory is organized, I am usually heading out questing with 40 to 50 slots half filled with partial stacks and pots and what not, and that leaves between 40 and 50 open for anything new I pick up along the way. Every 6 weapons/amour I collect, I use bounce mail to remove from my bag and send to my inbox. Anything I am hording long term - future research items or weapons/armour I plan to equip at a later level I simply leave in returned mail till I need it.

Generally, I'm able to quest/grind uninterrupted for 2 to 3 hours before I have to go spend an hour cleaning my inventory, deconstructing and doing my guild officer duty of cleaning up the guild bank (FWIW, I'd love to have the stacking tool/splitting tool available in the bank - at least for guild officers).

TL:DR - While I agree that there should be some changes to improve the current bag system, I have no problem making the current system work.

Sendarya · May 2014

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Stop trying to hoard everything - put it to use - sell to merchant -craft items - deconstruct items. Don't try to master every crafting skill. After a session of questing, hunting and dungeons and my pack is full - I take a break, go to town unload all of the crap - sell or decon - then go back out with a clean pack.

Man, is it that hard to do? and YES this has been discussed - boringly - many times before if you read the forums.

Emphasis mine, but this is the REAL problem.

Do you think you should be able to master every single craft without some sort of inventory issues? Do you REALLY think that? (not you the quoted person, you the OP).

Chrysolis · May 2014

This is on the very same page you're posting on, Sendarya.

Chrysolis wrote: »

I've mentioned this before, but even if a character was limited to 1 craft at a time we're only talking about 5 necessary characters in concordance with the 5 crafts. The space utilized is more than that. Unless you're saying that one person's account should only support a limited number of crafts, which I simply don't and will not agree with.

To answer your question, yes I think it is completely reasonable that one character should be able to handle 1 craft, maybe even 2.

Blackwidow · May 2014

Orizuru wrote: »

Except there are consequences to increasing inventory space for everyone.

What?

You said it, please explain the worst that could happen.

I want to hear this doomsday scenario you have in your head.

The devs have already stated quite bluntly that inventory size is meant to limit your ability to level all the crafting skills at the same time.

Didn't work. I have one character who has mastered all 6 crafts.

All they did was manage to make the game tedious.

If the goal was to make the game less fun by making us use mules and having to constantly log in and out to manage the inventory, then great job ZOS you managed to make your game less fun.

When you understand the design philosophy, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that the developers will desire to take other actions to limit crafting in other ways that could end up reducing the options available to all players in unknown ways.

When you realise what a blunder their philosophy is, you would see it needs to be fixed.

Do you not see how unhappy a great number of customers are over such a system that could easily be improved?

Besides, simply adding more inventory space won't solve your problem.

You could not be more wrong.

It just delays the problem. If you don't enjoy organizing and managing 100 inventory slots, you won't enjoy it 200 or 300 either.

Then make me really unhappy and give me 500. I'll suffer in silence.

Also....

Give us the tools to help us stay organized, like being able to list items by type and level. Let us lock items so we don't accidentally break them down or sell them. Give each character their own space as well as a shared bank. Have bank space for crafting material.

Punish me, I've been bad.

You can just ignore the problem for a longer period of time before the game forces you do something about it.

The game did force us to do something about it. That is why we are here.

I see asking for more inventory space as a form of procrastination really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI

Sendarya · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

This is on the very same page you're posting on, Sendarya.

Chrysolis wrote: »

I've mentioned this before, but even if a character was limited to 1 craft at a time we're only talking about 5 necessary characters in concordance with the 5 crafts. The space utilized is more than that. Unless you're saying that one person's account should only support a limited number of crafts, which I simply don't and will not agree with.

To answer your question, yes I think it is completely reasonable that one character should be able to handle 1 craft, maybe even 2.

Yes, that is completely reasonable, but no one is complaining about that. It is apples and oranges.

In fact, as I have stated earlier, I am leveling all crafts (but one), but on 2 characters, and it DOES make inventory management much easier, because there is a lot less switching stuff around. Unless you are leveling all characters at the same time too....and that is really unlikely. Play character one for an hour, manage inventory, pay character 2 for an hour, manage inventory. People don't tend to play that way. They play a character for a few hours a day. Maybe the next day they play one of their alts for a few hours. And so on.

If each character only had to manage the craft (or 2) they were working on, it would take much less time than managing it all on one character. This is evidenced simply by people who are doing it, and finding inventory more manageable than people trying to do it all on one character.

If you leveled 5 different characters, or even 3, it would take more time to level those crafts as well, as it does require skill points to put into. 1 character leveling all crafts is simply NOt comparable to 5 characters leveling 5 different crafts. Each has it's own headaches, plusses, and drawbacks.

P.S. I cannot believe Ihave to explain this to people, but "play the way you want" does not mean every single play choice is going to be equal. What if I want to play naked in vet areas? Should that be an equally viable option to people in full set gear with nice enchants and so forth just because I want to play that way? No.

You CAN play the way you want. You CAN max all crafts on ONE character, it is totally possible. Many people are doing it. It just causes more headaches, like playing naked in vet areas would.

Allyah · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

[...]
Traits: Traits take up huge amounts of space. Many trait/item combinations are very rare, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to trade one big inconvenience (inventory space) for another (finding new traits every time I want to research). Do some math with me:

There are 34 types of items in the game. Each item can have 8 different traits. Obviously I've already researched some, so let's say 5 different unresearched traits each. 34x5 = 170 / 60 Here we already have almost 3 entire characters used up to hold unresearched traits. Add on top of that trait stones (16, 8 weapon 8 armor) and we're on character #4. Do I need them? I think so. I'm not going to go from town to town screaming to buy trait items every 12 hrs - 2 days for exorbitant fees when I need to start research. To suggest I do is to say I should trade one enormous inconvenience for another. Let's not forget the 4 rare racial stones.

It should be pretty apparent to you by now which traits are rare on items. Get rid of those that aren't rare. Cut back on any type of armor/weapon you do not use or never plan to use or plan to use but not use in the near future. Keep one stack of trait stones. Keep more stacks of stones whose traits you like the most if and only if your inventory space allows. You don't need trait stones to research, you only need them to craft (and only if you want to put a trait on something). Keep rare racial stones.

Allyah, as I have already noted, selling off traits for inventory space is just trading one inconvenience for another. I clearly showed I kept only 1 of each type of trait stone, on top of that. It can be as hard to find "well-fitted" on some pieces as it is to find "divines". No, maybe I won't use well-fitted, but I'll certainly use set crafting which stems from number of traits researched.

The inconvenience is why I mentioned keeping only items with traits that are rare Obviously you prioritize which armor you keep for making armor sets with bonuses.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

Provisioning: As I've said, I keep only VR1-5 (relevant) food items. Here's the chart: http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-provisioning-ingredients/
12 Tier 3 Ingredients
6 Tier 2 Ingredients
5 Primary Ingredients
12 Secondary ingredients

There goes another 35 slots for one profession. Total is now 225 indisposable items.

Only keep food items of one type. Sell the rest. Get rid of any provisioning ingredients that you do not have the recipe for and those below your provisioning level.

I'm not sure if you've ever actually worked on provisioning, but as I've said I only keep the VR1-5 primary ingredients. No, I'm not going to sell those off. The other ingredients run from 60-300g each on top of that, and I have recipes for all of them.

I tell you to get rid of ingredients that you do not have the recipe for and those below your provisioning level and you feel the need to tell me that you have the recipe for VR1-VR5. That's cool and completely within your power. But your refusal to get rid of items that are below your level just furthers the point that you are hoarding items. I don't understand why you mentioned the price of ingredients at all.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing:
I tend to get 2 tiers of these at once (a tier higher than my current level, and my current level tier). So in raw materials, with 2 stacks being refined and the other stack being unrefined (accumulated as I find it), that's 9 inventory slots. I could perhaps delete my refined materials or perpetually sell them in zone, but that's not any more efficient than spending the time to bank them. Each craft has 4 improvement materials, bringing this total to 21, and a grand total of 280.

Use the refined material. Sell the items you get from it or give it away to someone to deconstruct. You can also deconstruct it yourself but because you only get partial experience, the other options are more efficient. Keep blue, purple, and orange improvement mats and one stack of the green (more if inventory space allows).

For the normal crafts, I already pointed out that I do sell the refined materials, but this is in itself inventory management.

Not a valid response to what I said.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

Alchemy: There are 18 types of herbs in the game. You cannot just buy water, so I also keep 2 stacks of VR1 and 2 stacks of VR5 water. That's another 22 slots. So that brings our total to 302 items you're not going to convince me are pointless. That's 5 characters completely filled out.

Use herbs as you get them. Sell potions that you won't use, yourself (one or two types at most). Keep only the VR5 stacks of water. This is the easiest crafting to manage. Approx. 2 stacks of water, 2 alchemy herbs, 2 potions that you use. So... you just opened up 2/3 of the space you were using needlessly.

For Alchemy, you can't merely predict every type of potion you will ever need. Potions stack up quickly, I don't need 400 elixirs of health on me at any one time.

So what your saying is, you hoard potions because you might use them at a later point in time despite the alchemy reagents being incredibly easy to get. And then you mention having many elixirs. I probably should have mentioned that you don't need more than one stack of usable potions of a certain type. I just assumed you would realize it because of all the other things that I said to keep only one stack of.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

So now here is what you could call debatably wasteful: Crafted potions and food not currently in use (I alternate foods as I quest, pvp, or do dungeons). A set of tanking gear for dungeons. A set of training gear (1 in bags, 1 in bank) to swap to for quest completion (for those of you not yet in vet levels, you max out your current skillset and don't want to be wasting exp). Add in trophies, that's 6 characters.

If you never use it on the only character you currently have, get rid of it. Keeping extra sets of training gear is unnecessary. If you need to level up a certain type of armor, keep most of what you currently wear and supplement it with a couple of pieces of the different type of armor. Keep trophies/costumes that you want to keep.

Finally, I have already said I won't include the training set as a totally necessary use of inventory. However, I do, in fact, use it. (One set is Medium - current skill 43, the other is light, current is 45. They'll be dissembled once the training is complete).

Again, you choose to keep something you don't need.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

[...]So let's say I am slightly wasteful and only 6 characters are necessary. Does that seem right to you?

Imprudent is a better word than wasteful and you are more than just a little imprudent with your inventory space. No, it's not right that you need 6 characters to hold your crap, and it's exactly what people have been telling you. You are a hoarder. If you wish to convince anyone otherwise, learn to prioritize what you really need to keep.

Now, this thread isn't about me personally as I've reminded everyone a dozen times. Don't tell me your inventory is great and mine sucks. Stop trying to pick me apart because you don't agree and address the actual issue at hand. Give me the "pro-tiny-inventory" side of the argument.

This thread isn't about you, but you felt the need to post what your inventory looked like as an argument towards needing some form of better inventory management. My post was both advice and a way to make the point that it is your choice to make inventory management harder for yourself.

No one has said your inventory sucks. They have said your inventory management sucks. Which is true based on things you have said yourself. Others have already given the pro tiny inventory side of the argument. You just don't want to hear it but I'll recap: crafting isn't supposed to be easy to cap out completely and they need the money sinks small inventory gives.

Blackwidow · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

In fact, as I have stated earlier, I am leveling all crafts (but one), but on 2 characters, and it DOES make inventory management much easier, because there is a lot less switching stuff around. Unless you are leveling all characters at the same time too....and that is really unlikely.

It is unlikely people are leveling a few characters at the same time?

Wow.

Play character one for an hour, manage inventory, pay character 2 for an hour, manage inventory. People don't tend to play that way. They play a character for a few hours a day. Maybe the next day they play one of their alts for a few hours. And so on.

You have no clue how each person plays their characters.

ALSO....

What if they did play that way, you are saying it should not be a viable way to play?

P.S. I cannot believe I have to explain this to people, but "play the way you want" does not mean every single play choice is going to be equal. What if I want to play naked in vet areas? Should that be an equally viable option to people in full set gear with nice enchants and so forth just because I want to play that way? No.

The fact that you equate playing naked in a vet area with getting simple banking tools to help manage inventory shows how out of touch you are with this conversation.

You CAN play the way you want. You CAN max all crafts on ONE character, it is totally possible. Many people are doing it. It just causes more headaches...

Great job, ZOS for causing headaches if we play the way we want!!!!

P.S. Is anyone going to say what the downside of getting more bank space is or is this dribble about how we play wrong going to just get rehashed over and over?

Sendarya · May 2014

P.S. I cannot believe I have to explain this to people, but "play the way you want" does not mean every single play choice is going to be equal. What if I want to play naked in vet areas? Should that be an equally viable option to people in full set gear with nice enchants and so forth just because I want to play that way? No.

The fact that you equate playing naked in a vet area with getting simple banking tools to help manage inventory shows how out of touch you are with this conversation.

You CAN play the way you want. You CAN max all crafts on ONE character, it is totally possible. Many people are doing it. It just causes more headaches...

Great job, ZOS for causing headaches if we play the way we want!!!!

P.S. Is anyone going to say what the downside of getting more bank space is or is this dribble about how we play wrong going to just get rehashed over and over?
[/quote]
I NEVER equated playing naked to simple banking tools. Ever. The fact that you have to straw man my argument just shows you are not reading what I am saying, you are just overly upset and tossing around random insults.

Just to clarify, I am all for banking tools. No where have I ever stated being against that, nor is this thread mainly about that. Tabs, sorting, mini-bags, special crafting bags, etc. are all good ideas and I hope TOOLS such as this are implemented.

This is about SPACE. Specifically that some people feel current space options are too small to do everything the want without much hassle, causing them to shuffle thing around multiple mules.

Stop straw manning and reply to the real argument I presented. Do you really feel that unlimited crafting and unlimited space together are a good idea in an MMO?
To answer your question about why it is a bad idea, it is because if everyone can easily be 100% self sufficient, it degrades the in game economy. No need for players to trade, or buy and sell from each other. Anything you need you can easily make yourself. Then why even play an mmo? Just play an es game where you have unlimited storage... oh wait, they impose weight restrictions too. Aren't we all glad they don't have that?

There are very good reasons why MMO's tend to restrict crafting in some way. I just laid out the most obvious one.

Also, are there any mmo's that have crafting as an important feature that actually do allow you to actively practice all crafts with massive or unlimited inventory? If so, I am curious to hear which those would be, as I am not aware of any.

Chrysolis · May 2014

@Allyah, You aren't addressing my points at all, you're giving me advice on my personal inventory management (not the point of this thread) and ignoring my explanation about it.

I'm not quoting you because your posts are about 4 pages long. Your advice is not non-inflammatory, it's condescending and ignores the real issue. If you think something I said is fallacious then, by all means, point that out.

The simple fact is I have contradicted you and you just can't understand it - or, you think that by continuously responding to the same drab point repeatedly is going to somehow make you the "winner" in this thread. Since your ineptitude is apparently going to continue plaguing my thread aimed to improve the game, I'll explain a little more.

Selling refined materials gets rid of those materials faster than crafting with them, then selling the resulting items. In this case your point is utterly invalid because I am getting rid of these in a more efficient way already.
I don't want to make potions and sell them because I tailor potions to my specific needs, and I don't have the quantity to just be getting rid of them. Alchemy is not a huge factor of inventory space, so maybe if I followed your advice I could save 10 slots at the cost of being able to make potions for what I need.
I said several times that the training equipment was not necessary. It accounts for 7 slots and will be deconstructed as soon as the skill reaches max level. The reason I did this to begin with is because 1.1.2 changed impulse in a way that made light armor/destruction staff unappealing to me.
VR1 provisioning items are still in use because I have blue recipes of that level without VR5 equivelants. Again, we're talking about 2-4 inventory slots here.

The fact that you think your advice is so infallible and that I can't contradict you effectively is just some manner of self-serving ego trip. On the other hand, I have asked that arguments be directed to my suggestions and not my personal inventory on several occasions and you still have yet to rise to that challenge, beyond saying "I could get into the details but I won't".

Also, calling me a troll for writing up a constructive post that many people agree with is pretty laughable and calls into question your own sincerity.

Allyah · May 2014

@Chrysolis‌
I understood your point fine.

Crafting with refined materials levels your skill up. That's more efficient than just selling.
Still on about training equipment, I see. I got it the first time you said it. You must not have much faith in your ability to communicate something.
My advice on provisioning is good advice whether you need it or not.
You haven't contradicted **** and 'D' for effort.
Again, I already gave you answers to your suggestions. And again, it's on pg 5.
"for one or for all of the following reasons"

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Thulsola · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

Stop straw manning and reply to the real argument I presented. Do you really feel that unlimited crafting and unlimited space together are a good idea in an MMO?

To answer your question about why it is a bad idea, it is because if everyone can easily be 100% self sufficient, it degrades the in game economy. No need for players to trade, or buy and sell from each other. Anything you need you can easily make yourself. Then why even play an mmo? Just play an es game where you have unlimited storage... oh wait, they impose weight restrictions too. Aren't we all glad they don't have that?

This. I can not play this game the way I want alone. I am a crafting primary. I need a ton of mats, and I need a ton of skill points. As a result my combat skills are pretty single focused and not great for dungeons or PvP. Even PvE I have to sneak around the damn map, avoid pulling agro and take my time, mob by mob, to solo quests. That's why I am in a guild. They help me farm, they help me run quests, and they let my ineffective a** tag along in PvP and dungeons when I get bored of grinding/farming. They helped me get all the motifs, and when I was first starting sent me awesome high-level decon items.

In return, as I advance in levels, I craft them pretty armour and weapons, manage the guild bank and guild store inventories, deal with the administration of the overall guild, keep an eye out for mats/items they need, etc. We get to play the game the way we want - together.

Blackwidow · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

Just to clarify, I am all for banking tools. No where have I ever stated being against that, nor is this thread mainly about that. Tabs, sorting, mini-bags, special crafting bags, etc. are all good ideas and I hope TOOLS such as this are implemented.

Okay.

So, we are on the same page on that one.

This is about SPACE. Specifically that some people feel current space options are too small to do everything the want without much hassle, causing them to shuffle thing around multiple mules.

Yes.

Okay, let's talk about that.

Do you really feel that unlimited crafting and unlimited space together are a good idea in an MMO?

First, I would like to say that nobody is asking for unlimited bank space, but to answer your question....

Yes, I do. I think if a players likes crafting he should be able to craft all he wants.

I also don't see a downside to an unlimited bank.

To answer your question about why it is a bad idea,

I'm ready. Give it to me.

it is because if everyone can easily be 100% self sufficient, it degrades the in game economy.

First, the small bank is not stopping anyone from crafting. I hope you know that. It is just making the game tedious, so some people are just quitting, which is not the goal ZOS intended.

Second, not everyone likes to craft. I will not give you a % but go check out many many polls about this in the gaming community. From what I have personally seen a lot of people don't really like to craft in MMOs. That leaves a lot of customers.

Third, if they wanted to restrict crafting, there are much better ways to do it than a frustrating bank system.

No need for players to trade, or buy and sell from each other. Anything you need you can easily make yourself. Then why even play an mmo?

So, you just play MMOs to trade crafts?

Most of us fight monsters and such. It is fun, you should try it.

Just play an es game where you have unlimited storage... oh wait, they impose weight restrictions too. Aren't we all glad they don't have that?

Weight restrictions were on bags, not banks.

I would love a house, like in Skyrim. Unlimited storage would be grand.

There are very good reasons why MMO's tend to restrict crafting in some way. I just laid out the most obvious one.

Again, if they wanted to restrict crafting, there are much better ways to do it than a frustrating bank system.

Also, are there any mmo's that have crafting as an important feature that actually do allow you to actively practice all crafts with massive or unlimited inventory? If so, I am curious to hear which those would be, as I am not aware of any.

Not unlimited. Again, nobody is asking for that.

However, WoW has a great bank system and crafting is important in that game.

In fact, every MMO I can think of has a better banking system than ESO.

badmojo · May 2014

You asked why I like the current system. Basically for realism/immersion reasons. Going out and slaying countless hoards of bad guys, picking up all their dropped gear, and never having your bag fill up would just be too immersion breaking for me to enjoy a system like that in such an immersive game. I was disappointed when I first realized that you could stack items to 100 and it wouldn't take up any more space. So you can argue that people would never ask for this system, given a system of unlimited storage, but I disagree, I would actually like a system where we couldn't stuff thousands of items into a small backpack.

Obviously the game would have to be made from the ground up with that in mind, so I'm not going to waste my time posting about wanting that system. Just like I think it's pointless for you expect the inventory system to change so drastically.

Another reason I enjoy the current limitations is exactly because it's a bit of a mini-game. I've played the past Elder Scrolls games and enjoyed having to return to my house to drop off my loot. I enjoyed having to make judgement calls about what I should keep, what I should vendor, and what I should use. The lack of unlimited space gives more value to these items, they become more real to the player, they're not just a name on a list that goes on forever, they take up valuable space and need to be considered, not just put away and forgotten.

Chrysolis I think you should stop getting so defensive and dismissing peoples points of view as unconstructive just because they don't agree with you. It's not easy for us to explain the reasons we like or dislike the current system, all I'm hearing from your side is that "it sucks", "it's boring" & "time sink". We all come from varying backgrounds of gaming experience, inventory is not new to gaming. Most of us have experienced many different inventory systems in many games over the years. The reasons for or against aren't going to strictly be based on logical thinking, they're going to mostly come from personal preferences.

But, Kudos for sticking to you guns and keeping up the conversation about something you feel needs to be changed.

Alpha_Protocol · May 2014

I have about 1,000 inventory slots, how is that not enough?