Elder scrolls online will succeed because...

bjplague · May 2014

because it is a privately owned company.

think about it. funcom's anarchy online and age of conan both went free to pay.
star trek online, swtor etc etc.
what do these companies have in common?

they are owned by mother firms with shareholders breathing down their neck for quick profits so they launch early, they spam the users with pay to win *** and then they tank because there just isnt enough intrest in the companies to sustain a long term lower income that would be more or less permanent. they want quick profits NOW and dont give a crap about the future of the game.

on the other side of this story you have for instance eve online.
what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals. so they have given out 15+ free expansions since the game launched many years ago and just keep building on what works.

this is what will happen to eso. small company, passionate souls caressing the server and fueling it with love, tears and sweat. if eso goes down the road of eve online i think i will still be playing it 15 years from now. there is massive potential for expansions given the size of tamriel and the oblivion planes so there is no shortage of room to spread on.

so if they can manage to avoid sink holes like catering to the carebears too much and implementing kung fu panda's (wow) i think eso has a long bright life ahead.

Enkil · May 2014

I hope you are right. I would like to see some more engagement on the part of the Devs that would convey that passion.

stryderzz · May 2014

i agree completely and really hope this is how the game will end up and even better, we're all taking a risk here giving money to a new game and i love this game a lot and more so the road ahead sounds really promising i just hope they fix the issues with the game and pay attention to their customers, i'd hate to see this game fail.

Wolfshead · May 2014

I have to agree with you take Blizzard and WoW at start of WoW Blizzard care alot for game and there player community but as soon the went to bed with Activision so to speak the have change focus from the game to just earn more money which i think is sad to see.

I honest hope that people at Zenimax keep there more focus on the game then just to make some fast money.

Keep it up guys you have game that have alot off potential

and keep listen to your player community as well

bjplague · May 2014

yeah, wow used to be epic, im not ashamed to say that i was a die hard wow fan. had a pally in beta and was lvl 60 raiding molten core and dragons and loving it.

it started going downhill after the expansion though and became increasingly easier macro spam every expansion after that.
it was the panda's that broke the camels back for me though.
wtf were they thinking? PANDA'S?!?

ShintaiDK · May 2014

A privately owned company also needs money. ESO current path is against that goal. And they are not gonna let ESO run as some sort of welfare job project.

Pewpie · May 2014

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players

*cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

terence.caroneb17_ESO · May 2014

You know that Zenimax online studios is owned by Zenimax media right ? It's OWNED, by Zenimax media, a company which owns also Bethesda Softworks, Id Software, and other companies.

Just google stuff before you say something like that.

Exeter411 · May 2014

Zenimax Media is a privately held corporation, which I believe is the OP's point.

Nermy · May 2014

I really hope that TESO succeeds as it is a really good game despite all the issues. There's a lot they need to do to make it a successful MMO but if they can hold onto their player base, we should be ok.

mutharex · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

KhajitFurTrader · May 2014

Another important point to mention is that the Elder Scrolls IP is owned by ZeniMax Media/Bethesda. So, not only are shareholders absent, but IP licensors as well.

Only bad thing that could happen is EA/Ubisoft making an offer ZMM can't refuse. Best not to think about it (the horror! THE HORROR!).

Pewpie · May 2014

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

mutharex · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

KhajitFurTrader · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released...

Ah, but Craglorn has been in the developing pipeline long before the launch date. And there is always more than one team working on different aspects of the game. So think about this: bugs get fixed by one team ... content gets developed by another ... in parallel!

In-con-ceivable!

Pewpie · May 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released...

Ah, but Craglorn has been in the developing pipeline long before the launch date. And there is always more than one team working on different aspects of the game. So think about this: bugs get fixed by one team ... content gets developed by another ... in parallel!

In-con-ceivable!

It is not that easy managing development teams. Content and bugs might many times be connected. And the content may be causing the bugs itself.

Do you know how many developers they have working?

mutharex · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released...

Ah, but Craglorn has been in the developing pipeline long before the launch date. And there is always more than one team working on different aspects of the game. So think about this: bugs get fixed by one team ... content gets developed by another ... in parallel!

In-con-ceivable!

It is not that easy managing development teams. Content and bugs might many times be connected. And the content may be causing the bugs itself.

Do you know how many developers they have working?

Listening to the forum rabble it seems 3:
one for content, one for bugs and one to operate the coffee machine....

Pewpie · May 2014

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

mutharex · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

Some ex worker craps over their ex management, how weird and totally unexpected.
Shocking, I'd say

AngryNord · May 2014

bjplague wrote: »

launch early

Wasn't that just what happened With ESO?

netsike · May 2014

My personal opinion: Funcom is MUCH better, than Zenimax... they just don't have money, but they love what they are doing and they are actually good in it. I enjoy AoC hundred times better, than ESO... it also started pretty rough I heard and they had a bad period with a bad developer, but the game is still good after 6 years.

AngryNord · May 2014

Exeter411 wrote: »

Zenimax Media is a privately held corporation, which I believe is the OP's point.

And how's that different from Electronic Arts et al?

mutharex · May 2014

AngryNord wrote: »

Exeter411 wrote: »

Zenimax Media is a privately held corporation, which I believe is the OP's point.

And how's that different from Electronic Arts et al?

Ehr.. because it's a privately held corporation and EA is public? You know, shares on the exchange market?

terence.caroneb17_ESO · May 2014

Exeter411 wrote: »

Zenimax Media is a privately held corporation, which I believe is the OP's point.

But zenimax online studios isn't independant, so the OP is wrong. And what prevents Zenimax medias from choosing a F2P model if the subs are fading ? Nothing. Same for many important decisions.

If the game cost more than it makes money, Zenimax medias have the final decision. So yeah, the OP's pretty completely wrong.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

Pros – Lots of talent in engineering, especially in the leadership and management. Perks are great - free games from across the company, in-house cafeteria with company-subsidized prices, killer company parties. Studio management does an incredible job of protecting creative independence.

Pros – - Great people to work with an overall positive environment.
- Amazing incentives for employees.
- Room for moving up within the company.
- Weekly team meetings.

Pros – Creative open-minded people
Warm fun dedicated working environment
Great Location...close to DC & VA
Best place to work in this industry!

Cons – There are no cons at all

Selective quoting works both ways. Now the overall image painted by the reviews feels pretty standard for the game developing industry to me... ever talked to a game dev before? They'll all tell you that management are dogs, pay is crap and unreliable at best, that being creative is frowned upon etc etc etc. From the reviews I really can't garner more information that it's a standard game dev company

steveb16_ESO46 · May 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released...

Ah, but Craglorn has been in the developing pipeline long before the launch date. And there is always more than one team working on different aspects of the game. So think about this: bugs get fixed by one team ... content gets developed by another ... in parallel!

In-con-ceivable!

Or as Craglorn shows. Bugs get fixed by one team. bugs get developed by another.

Un-be-lievable.

Regoras · May 2014

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

Pros – Lots of talent in engineering, especially in the leadership and management. Perks are great - free games from across the company, in-house cafeteria with company-subsidized prices, killer company parties. Studio management does an incredible job of protecting creative independence.

Pros – - Great people to work with an overall positive environment.
- Amazing incentives for employees.
- Room for moving up within the company.
- Weekly team meetings.

Pros – Creative open-minded people
Warm fun dedicated working environment
Great Location...close to DC & VA
Best place to work in this industry!

Cons – There are no cons at all

Selective quoting works both ways. Now the overall image painted by the reviews feels pretty standard for the game developing industry to me... ever talked to a game dev before? They'll all tell you that management are dogs, pay is crap and unreliable at best, that being creative is frowned upon etc etc etc. From the reviews I really can't garner more information that it's a standard game dev company

Guessing you ignored the overwhelming and repetitious cons ( even from people that recommend the company ) of "upper management is terrible"? Selective quoting or not, good reviews or bad, seems to be a pattern on that site.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · May 2014

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

Pros – Lots of talent in engineering, especially in the leadership and management. Perks are great - free games from across the company, in-house cafeteria with company-subsidized prices, killer company parties. Studio management does an incredible job of protecting creative independence.

Pros – - Great people to work with an overall positive environment.
- Amazing incentives for employees.
- Room for moving up within the company.
- Weekly team meetings.

Pros – Creative open-minded people
Warm fun dedicated working environment
Great Location...close to DC & VA
Best place to work in this industry!

Cons – There are no cons at all

Selective quoting works both ways. Now the overall image painted by the reviews feels pretty standard for the game developing industry to me... ever talked to a game dev before? They'll all tell you that management are dogs, pay is crap and unreliable at best, that being creative is frowned upon etc etc etc. From the reviews I really can't garner more information that it's a standard game dev company

Guessing you ignored the overwhelming and repetitious cons ( even from people that recommend the company ) of "upper management is terrible"? Selective quoting or not, good reviews or bad, seems to be a pattern on that site.

No no, I didn't ignore anything at all, I'm just saying that having talked to a few game devs who've worked for several different companies, (including edios montreal) that I'm not even slightly surprised by people saying that management in Zenimax Media is comprised of selfish egotistical ***.

Pewpie · May 2014

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

Some ex worker craps over their ex management, how weird and totally unexpected.
Shocking, I'd say

I would say it is. If you have ex employees that doesn't even recommend your company, it means something is wrong. Several of those complain about the managment. I just make the connection to what is happening with the game.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

1) Craglorn was advertised before launch (also the content patch included al ot of bug fixes)

2) I am pretty sure that only a 12-16 years old can think that they ignore bug fixing because some suit told them so

3) how old are you? Not gonna waste time talking with kids

You dont need to be 12 years old to believe they will do what the management (some suit) will tell them what to do. Take a look at what people that worked at zenimax said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

Cons – Lots of turnover in creative leadership, leading to big changes in direction (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Decision making at senior management level seems too diffuse and scattered, leading to delays that trickle down to development.

Cons – * Upper Management is very conservative, outdated, disconnected from workforce and filled with power driven egos
* Feels more like an "Empire" than a meritocracy
* Unrealistic expectations in terms of performance
* Maximum accountability with little operational support
* Bureaucracy and politics on expenses

Cons – No sick days. Terrible management, ego-filled leads and sub-par pay.

Cons – Pay for developers is far below industry standards--appalling for such an enormously successful company. Upper management openly flaunt their extreme wealth. Continual talent drain caused by poor compensation and little opportunity for advancement. Building (ZMI HQ in Rockville) is decrepit and poorly maintained, except for the areas occupied by management. Management is rude, self-important, and cheap. Nepotism is rampant.

Gonna stop there...

Pros – Lots of talent in engineering, especially in the leadership and management. Perks are great - free games from across the company, in-house cafeteria with company-subsidized prices, killer company parties. Studio management does an incredible job of protecting creative independence.

Pros – - Great people to work with an overall positive environment.
- Amazing incentives for employees.
- Room for moving up within the company.
- Weekly team meetings.

Pros – Creative open-minded people
Warm fun dedicated working environment
Great Location...close to DC & VA
Best place to work in this industry!

Cons – There are no cons at all

Selective quoting works both ways. Now the overall image painted by the reviews feels pretty standard for the game developing industry to me... ever talked to a game dev before? They'll all tell you that management are dogs, pay is crap and unreliable at best, that being creative is frowned upon etc etc etc. From the reviews I really can't garner more information that it's a standard game dev company

Guessing you ignored the overwhelming and repetitious cons ( even from people that recommend the company ) of "upper management is terrible"? Selective quoting or not, good reviews or bad, seems to be a pattern on that site.

No no, I didn't ignore anything at all, I'm just saying that having talked to a few game devs who've worked for several different companies, (including edios montreal) that I'm not even slightly surprised by people saying that management in Zenimax Media is comprised of selfish egotistical ***.

Perhaps that is because the management in game studios usually are compromised of selfish egoistical ***, and zenimax is no exception? :P

You know, (prejudice or not) gamers are usually egoistical unsocial *** :P Guess the gaming industry attracts their own people...

Maybe they should get people from other segments to make up for all gamer dorks polluting the managment with egoistical views of grandure and "i most certainly know whats best" ? :P

Singular · May 2014

because...I am in it.

rattbagrwb17_ESO · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

what is eve? well its a space opera kinda game that was developed and is run by a small company in iceland that listens to the community and tempers that with their own ideas and goals.

Yeah, it is like ZoS listens to the players *cough* craglorn... bugs... unbalance...

Take a look at the reviews from the company staff in job applications (i don't have the link, but there is one on the forums). It is a EGO controlled environment where single managment people decide the whole outcome of things based on their own ego. Your voice as a player won't get a chance to be heard if their own staff can't even get things through.

Thank god for that, because we need another "tutorial islands fiasco":the less devs listen to vocal minorities, the better

I said nothing about minorities.

If 90% of the players (my guess) wants a bug free game rather than content for a MINORITY of VR10 players and craglorn gets released... They do not listen to the MAJORITY of the players. THAT is a problem. And i'm pretty sure it has to do with the workspace in the company. No one except by some EGO in the management has anything to say about stuff. At the meeting where the direction is decided, i guess it is based on the loose ideas of a management that has no connection at all what is going on in the game.

Meeting few weeks ago:
Dev: "But... the bugs..."
Dev2: "We need to do something about the bots..."
Marketing: "We are getting craps in the press cause of bots..."
Management: "Release craglorn is our priority! Everybody work on that for the next month!

The team that made Craiglorn are completely separate from the team working on bugfix.
This isn't developed by a handful of people in a garage, it's a seriously large operation, with various teams working on many different aspects of the game. Dungeon team, quest team, itemisation team, artwork team, economy and trade team, Lore team, Crafting team etc. and they are all working on their own areas of the game.
The guys working on expansions and building new zones aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs while the bughunters patch up problems, nor can they suddenly jump to another team when they are specialised for their part of the project.