ESO using Hero Engine and Havok, seriously?? You lied to us!? :(
patrikblb16_ESO
✭✭✭
You told us this game wouldnt use Hero Engine, that you just used it for conceptual work in the beginning, and that you wrote your very own engine...You lied to us! 
I wanted to re-install the game completly and get this thrown right into my face "Powered by Hero Engine", then a Havok logo right after...What the ***??
This explains why this games loading times is as long as they are, and it also explains why you cannot fix the bugs, you need to rely on a third party company to fix bugs for you wich you then use to create your patches...This game is beyond fixing now, I'm 100% certain that you can never fix the bugs because you have zero control over the game.
It also explains why you keep on pushing patches with tons of bugs that have been reported for weeks, sometimes even months on PTS.
I have zero trust left for Zenimax and Bethesda now, good luck with your future releases wich I will not be a part of anymore.
Sincerly
A deeply insulted fan
Edit 2014-06-02:
Here's my findings on this. It's not like they would just throw away that amount of money, Idea Fabrik getting a share of the revenue wich is bound by contract.
This is from when Zenimax signed the license for the engine.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20071126005053&newsLang=en
And this is from 2014. Notice the little logo on the bottom of the first page?:)
http://static.elderscrollsonline.com/cs/kb/pdf/ESO_PC_MM_EN_digital.pdf
The tiny text at the bottom is also interesting, Hero Cloud contains SpeedTree, coincidence?
RAD Gametools wich consists of Bink Video and Granny Animation is also included in Hero Cloud.
© 2014 ZeniMax Media Inc. The Elder Scrolls® Online developed by ZeniMax Online Studios LLC, a ZeniMax Media company. ZeniMax, The Elder Scrolls,
ESO, Bethesda, Bethesda Softworks and related logos are registered trademarks or trademarks of ZeniMax Media Inc. in the US and/or other countries.
Uses Havok™: ©Copyright 1999-2010. Havok.com, Inc. (and its Licensors), All Rights Reserved. See http://www.havok.com for details. Portions of this software
utilize SpeedTree® technology (©2009 Interactive Data Visualization, Inc.) SpeedTree® is a registered trademark of Interactive Data Visualization, Inc. All
rights reserved. Uses Bink Video. Copyright ©1997-2014 by RAD Game Tools, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Uses Granny Animation. Copyright ©1999-2007
by RAD Game Tools, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Powered by Lingoona ® Grammar Engine © Lingoona GmbH 2009-2014. Acapela Text-To-Speech from
Acapela Group. Powered by HeroEngine, an Idea Fabrik technology, http://www.heroengine.com. Idea Fabrik and HeroEngine are registered trademarks of Idea
Fabrik Plc. All rights reserved. The ratings icon is a trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All Rights Reserved.
I wanted to re-install the game completly and get this thrown right into my face "Powered by Hero Engine", then a Havok logo right after...What the ***??
This explains why this games loading times is as long as they are, and it also explains why you cannot fix the bugs, you need to rely on a third party company to fix bugs for you wich you then use to create your patches...This game is beyond fixing now, I'm 100% certain that you can never fix the bugs because you have zero control over the game.
It also explains why you keep on pushing patches with tons of bugs that have been reported for weeks, sometimes even months on PTS.
I have zero trust left for Zenimax and Bethesda now, good luck with your future releases wich I will not be a part of anymore.
Sincerly
A deeply insulted fan
Edit 2014-06-02:
Here's my findings on this. It's not like they would just throw away that amount of money, Idea Fabrik getting a share of the revenue wich is bound by contract.
This is from when Zenimax signed the license for the engine.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20071126005053&newsLang=en
And this is from 2014. Notice the little logo on the bottom of the first page?:)
http://static.elderscrollsonline.com/cs/kb/pdf/ESO_PC_MM_EN_digital.pdf
The tiny text at the bottom is also interesting, Hero Cloud contains SpeedTree, coincidence?
RAD Gametools wich consists of Bink Video and Granny Animation is also included in Hero Cloud.
© 2014 ZeniMax Media Inc. The Elder Scrolls® Online developed by ZeniMax Online Studios LLC, a ZeniMax Media company. ZeniMax, The Elder Scrolls,
ESO, Bethesda, Bethesda Softworks and related logos are registered trademarks or trademarks of ZeniMax Media Inc. in the US and/or other countries.
Uses Havok™: ©Copyright 1999-2010. Havok.com, Inc. (and its Licensors), All Rights Reserved. See http://www.havok.com for details. Portions of this software
utilize SpeedTree® technology (©2009 Interactive Data Visualization, Inc.) SpeedTree® is a registered trademark of Interactive Data Visualization, Inc. All
rights reserved. Uses Bink Video. Copyright ©1997-2014 by RAD Game Tools, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Uses Granny Animation. Copyright ©1999-2007
by RAD Game Tools, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Powered by Lingoona ® Grammar Engine © Lingoona GmbH 2009-2014. Acapela Text-To-Speech from
Acapela Group. Powered by HeroEngine, an Idea Fabrik technology, http://www.heroengine.com. Idea Fabrik and HeroEngine are registered trademarks of Idea
Fabrik Plc. All rights reserved. The ratings icon is a trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All Rights Reserved.
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Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code. -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
It does use Havok. It does not use Hero Engine. Hero Engine was used very early on in development as a prototyping tool...the final engine is not Hero Engine in any way. You can clearly see this if you actually play a Hero Engine game...the ESO engine does not look or behave ANYTHING like it. The ONLY time Hero Engine is ever mentioned is on the installation screen. It doesn't show up in the game anywhere. I assume that because they did license and use Hero Engine during the prototyping phase, they have to mention it in the credits, even if the final engine doesn't have anything to do with it. Just a legal technicality I'm sure.
As for Havok, it's just physics middleware. Lots of things use it, and I have to assume it's being used for the ragoll physics when you knock things down or get knocked down.Edited by Saerydoth on May 25, 2014 6:12PM -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
It does use Havok. It does not use Hero Engine. Hero Engine was used very early on in development as a prototyping tool...the final engine is not Hero Engine in any way. You can clearly see this if you actually play a Hero Engine game...the ESO engine does not look or behave ANYTHING like it. The ONLY time Hero Engine is ever mentioned is on the installation screen. It doesn't show up in the game anywhere.
As for Havok, it's just physics middleware.
I played SWTOR and the loading times are pretty damn identical, this game is using that damn engine, they just panicked when they saw what happened to SWTOR when they had a game with that engine under development.
They forgot to remove it after they introduced Craglorn probably, they didnt show this splashscreen anywhere during the beta or pre-release. It's shown by default by Hero Engine, they just forgot to remove it..Edited by patrikblb16_ESO on May 25, 2014 6:15PM -
If it is Hero, then it's vastly upgraded compared to SWTOR's, which was relatively low quality (especially the shadows), slow, and rarely had areas of any real size. -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
It does use Havok. It does not use Hero Engine. Hero Engine was used very early on in development as a prototyping tool...the final engine is not Hero Engine in any way. You can clearly see this if you actually play a Hero Engine game...the ESO engine does not look or behave ANYTHING like it. The ONLY time Hero Engine is ever mentioned is on the installation screen. It doesn't show up in the game anywhere.
As for Havok, it's just physics middleware.
I played SWTOR and the loading times are pretty damn identical, this game is using that damn engine, they just panicked when they saw what happened to SWTOR when they had a game with that engine under development.
They forgot to remove it after they introduced Craglorn probably, they didnt show this splashscreen anywhere during the beta or pre-release. It's shown by default by Hero Engine, they just forgot to remove it..
No, it's not. Hero Engine can't even handle a fraction of the number of players on screen that ESO's engine can. Hero Engine would choke long before that point. Loading times are completely irrelevant.Edited by Saerydoth on May 25, 2014 6:19PM -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭@patrikblb16_ESO : Can you log into game and play?
If I wanted to yes.
Knowing how they lied I dont feel like it though, it's just not ok.patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
It does use Havok. It does not use Hero Engine. Hero Engine was used very early on in development as a prototyping tool...the final engine is not Hero Engine in any way. You can clearly see this if you actually play a Hero Engine game...the ESO engine does not look or behave ANYTHING like it. The ONLY time Hero Engine is ever mentioned is on the installation screen. It doesn't show up in the game anywhere.
As for Havok, it's just physics middleware.
I played SWTOR and the loading times are pretty damn identical, this game is using that damn engine, they just panicked when they saw what happened to SWTOR when they had a game with that engine under development.
They forgot to remove it after they introduced Craglorn probably, they didnt show this splashscreen anywhere during the beta or pre-release. It's shown by default by Hero Engine, they just forgot to remove it..
No, it's not. Hero Engine can't even handle a fraction of the number of players on screen that ESO's engine can. Hero Engine would choke long before that point. Loading times are completely irrelevant.
The point is, they lied to us, if its ok with you thats up you, for me it aint.
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isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
I see the Havok every time I log in, but nothing specific about any engine. I assumed Havok was the name of it (the gear for an "o" was kind of a hint that it had to do with with something like engines.)
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on May 25, 2014 6:44PM -
Orizuru✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »@patrikblb16_ESO : Can you log into game and play?
If I wanted to yes.
Knowing how they lied I dont feel like it though, it's just not ok.patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
It does use Havok. It does not use Hero Engine. Hero Engine was used very early on in development as a prototyping tool...the final engine is not Hero Engine in any way. You can clearly see this if you actually play a Hero Engine game...the ESO engine does not look or behave ANYTHING like it. The ONLY time Hero Engine is ever mentioned is on the installation screen. It doesn't show up in the game anywhere.
As for Havok, it's just physics middleware.
I played SWTOR and the loading times are pretty damn identical, this game is using that damn engine, they just panicked when they saw what happened to SWTOR when they had a game with that engine under development.
They forgot to remove it after they introduced Craglorn probably, they didnt show this splashscreen anywhere during the beta or pre-release. It's shown by default by Hero Engine, they just forgot to remove it..
No, it's not. Hero Engine can't even handle a fraction of the number of players on screen that ESO's engine can. Hero Engine would choke long before that point. Loading times are completely irrelevant.
The point is, they lied to us, if its ok with you thats up you, for me it aint.
You THINK they lied. From what I've read here, you saw one logo on a splash screen and assumed the worst.
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Hearts✭✭✭Maybe a modified version of Heros Engine because its very similar.. But @Saerydoth might be right, ESO can handle 100 players on the screen at the same time (with some weird prioritization, why remove spell effects!) -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭wow all this time and we still have people that don't know?
they STARTED using hero engine but due to popular demand (pretty much right after swtor) they dumped it
[Snip]
Wow [Snip]...if they only used it for concept why would they say "Powered by Hero Engine"?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_LodieA on May 26, 2014 7:24AM -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭Maybe a modified version of Heros Engine because its very similar.. But @Saerydoth might be right, ESO can handle 100 players on the screen at the same time (with some weird prioritization, why remove spell effects!)
It would still mean they lied though.
Hero Engine can handle many players if you do it this way, theres other issues with HE. -
Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »
because they HAVE to. there was a huge discussion on it, if they even used it partially they have to give credit where it is due.
the hero engine can NOT absolutely 100% can NOT handle the things that ESO does from combat, to highly scripted quests, to the ENTIRE cyrodil experience.
this went along with the reasons they dropped it. I'll not spoonfeed you but if you really are so intelligent you can spend 15 minutes of google research and find out for yourself.
I hope for your sake and everyone you are close to that you are a troll.
the engine drop was one of the reasons they had to delay and pretty much start from scratch mid way (and frankly is most likely why the game feels less than complete now)Edited by ZOS_LodieA on May 26, 2014 7:25AM -
If they are still using some part of Hero then they did a commendable job on making it much better than the version in SWTOR.
Overall, I don't care which engine they use. -
Banumu✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »@patrikblb16_ESO : Can you log into game and play?
If I wanted to yes.
Knowing how they lied I dont feel like it though, it's just not ok.
Are you planing to stop playing then ?
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Saerydoth✭✭✭✭isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
I see the Havok every time I log in, but nothing specific about any engine. I assumed Havok was the name of it (the gear for an "o" was kind of a hint that it had to do with with something like engines.)
Havok isn't an engine. It's physics middleware, used to handle characters and things like building destruction in Cyrodiil. Havok actually has MANY different components, ESO is only using the physics middleware portion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havok_(software)
As for the whole Hero Engine thing, this was explained a long time ago. People need to read before opening their mouth.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspxEdited by Saerydoth on May 25, 2014 7:05PM -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most important part:We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development. -
ZOS_TristanK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development. -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
a common practice in video game development, to maximize you time you creat the game inverical slices, iterating on the last prototype. they probably use a lot of the scripting on hero and transferred to the in house engine -
gladen5rwb17_ESO✭✭✭In case you cannot be bothered going to the link posted above, here is a snippet that explains much.
You licensed HeroEngine a long time ago. What role did the Hero Engine play in the development of ESO?
We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development.
