ESO using Hero Engine and Havok, seriously??

Bangstin

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

I mean, who the hell cares what engine they use. It is the end product that I care about.

I'm sure there a plenty of former SwTor players who would disagree with you.
I wouldn't buy anything using Hero engine , wasn't going to buy ESO either until i heard they dropped it in early developement.

Saerydoth

Bangstin wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

I mean, who the hell cares what engine they use. It is the end product that I care about.

I'm sure there a plenty of former SwTor players who would disagree with you.
I wouldn't buy anything using Hero engine , wasn't going to buy ESO either until i heard they dropped it in early developement.

That's the thing, they only used Hero Engine early in development as an art tool. They had always planned to develop their own engine, and they never had plans to actually use Hero Engine as an engine.

The best way to explain it...when ZOS started, they were a brand new company. They had NO software or technology of their own, and everything had to be developed from scratch. They had the personnel (including artists), but no engine. There are 2 choices here. 1) Let the artists just sit there and twiddle their thumbs for a year or two, while they wait for the programmers to develop the engine, or 2) License an existing engine, so they can get the artists working on concepts and zone art, then just have them switch to the new engine once it's done.

They picked option 2 for obvious reasons. As for Havok...Blizzard proved with Diablo 3 that Havok isn't *necessary* (they discarded it and wrote their own physics for some reason). But Havok works fine. I do not know why Blizzard chose to write their own physics for D3 rather than just release with Havok. But I don't have anything against ZOS for using it. Havok is a tested and proven physics engine...LOTS of games use it, and it works.

Utildai

I don't think the load times are bad at all, couple few seconds maybe? What's wrong with your PC's? :P

patrikblb16_ESO

fakedawgb16_ESO wrote: »

When people make ignorant threads like this, they should be given a permanent ban both from the forums and the game, just to help them fulfill their promise/threat of leaving ...

You need to be banned for b

Saerydoth wrote: »

Bangstin wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

I mean, who the hell cares what engine they use. It is the end product that I care about.

I'm sure there a plenty of former SwTor players who would disagree with you.
I wouldn't buy anything using Hero engine , wasn't going to buy ESO either until i heard they dropped it in early developement.

That's the thing, they only used Hero Engine early in development as an art tool. They had always planned to develop their own engine, and they never had plans to actually use Hero Engine as an engine.

The best way to explain it...when ZOS started, they were a brand new company. They had NO software or technology of their own, and everything had to be developed from scratch. They had the personnel (including artists), but no engine. There are 2 choices here. 1) Let the artists just sit there and twiddle their thumbs for a year or two, while they wait for the programmers to develop the engine, or 2) License an existing engine, so they can get the artists working on concepts and zone art, then just have them switch to the new engine once it's done.

They picked option 2 for obvious reasons. As for Havok...Blizzard proved with Diablo 3 that Havok isn't *necessary* (they discarded it and wrote their own physics for some reason). But Havok works fine. I do not know why Blizzard chose to write their own physics for D3 rather than just release with Havok. But I don't have anything against ZOS for using it. Havok is a tested and proven physics engine...LOTS of games use it, and it works.

I know very well that they said ESO wouldnt use Hero Engine, but thats no proof at all and the only engine mentioned anywhere is Hero Engine, and Havok for physics. But if you write your own engine from scratch you pretty much want to include a physics engine in it, not that Havok is bad at what it does.

Zenimax also said the game would release with a 64-bit client before the game went live, but the Hero Engine doesnt have support for 64-bit clients so I contacted them again asking if it really was going to ship with 64-bit client. The answer was no, there are no plans for a 64-bit client.

So what they say and what they do might differ depending who you ask, the guys responsible for the PR would ofcourse never admit the game would use something that many players dislikes, the Hero Engine as an example.

I dont trust companies trying create a hype, I've been around for too long to fall for fancy words, the newer guys might not be able to see through the words though.

Sakiri

Well they admitted its not in there here and Ive never seen anything in game saying its there.

If it *was* youd see it on a splash screen at startup. Its not there. The installer, I didnt see it there bug Im running the patched beta client so.. *shrug*

Fairydragon3

Sakiri wrote: »

Well they admitted its not in there here and Ive never seen anything in game saying its there.

If it *was* youd see it on a splash screen at startup. Its not there. The installer, I didnt see it there bug Im running the patched beta client so.. *shrug*

what? i'm lost

Urbs

patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »

[...] I dont trust companies trying create a hype, I've been around for too long to fall for fancy words, the newer guys might not be able to see through the words though.

I'm around longer than you're--yes, that is possible--so, I don't think I fall for anything. You do know, that you don't need any particular reason to stop playing ESO. If the software of the forum is annoying you so much, that your whole gaming experience looses the fun it is suppose to give you, just stop playing.

I for one, don't mind what ball-bearing manufacturer my car vendor uses for the ball-bearings in my car.

But everyone is entitled to his own opinion and feelings, therefore go on, put an end to your era long MMO playing experience and find fun in something else.

Regards,
Urbs

Attorneyatlawl

Bangstin wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

I mean, who the hell cares what engine they use. It is the end product that I care about.

I'm sure there a plenty of former SwTor players who would disagree with you.
I wouldn't buy anything using Hero engine , wasn't going to buy ESO either until i heard they dropped it in early developement.

I care too as it limits what a dev can and can't do realistically with their game.

mowind

"with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date"

better topic for this thread...where did this mindset go? i would think grouping with friends to help out with difficult solo quests would be a strong candidate for a social feature.


/shrug

Shaun98ca2

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

AvA meta game too poor because of insufficient techniques to counter the zerg

WAY off topic


You know a Zerg is a large group of people fighting together.

This game promoted large scale battles IE zergs vs zergs.

Doesn't siege weapons break up the zergs? Not perfectly I imagine cause again they want large scale battles.

FYI there are other things to do in Cyrodiil to assist the zerg that doesn't require being in the zerg but a good 6 man group can accomplish IE cutting off transit lines to the battle or stealing elder scroll and buffing your zerg.

Good zone communication can also assure that your not cutting off transit lines another group is already assisting with or going after a scroll already being sought out.

isengrimb16_ESO

I still see no word "hero" on the opening screen. Just Havok. And thanks to the poster who cleared up who and what Havok is.

Just what is wrong about Star Wars? I've heard various things, including that it's doing better now as F2P. I checked out their website about a year ago, but didn't try it because I can't be a Wookiee, and the rest of the choices simply didn't interest me.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I think they should throw in a "Powered by Elder Engine" or whatever they want to call their engine (modeled after Hero engine it seems) and call it good.

And there really isnt a "Powered by HeroEngine" on the client startup splash screens, just checked. There is Havok tho.

Yankee

While I have not been impressed with this developers communication skills or transparency, refusing to play because (with no real evidence) you think they lied about the game engine seems strange to me.

I do not know or care what engine they used. The game has been rock stable for me since beta and looks good.

There are plenty of other issues I hope they address, this would not be one of them.

theStrict9

Bangstin wrote: »

I care too as it limits what a dev can and can't do realistically with their game.

That's just not true, and it really depends on if the developers have a source license or not. If they do, they have much more of an ability to change the engine to suit their needs.

Unless you are a developer who has experience integrating middleware into a large game project, you probably have no business commenting about it. Your one bad experience with a game made with hero engine doesn't exactly make you an expert. You can't attribute all the flaws of any game to its middleware.

It's all in how you use it.

Auric_ESO

And it doesnt use hero anyway so this thread is really rather silly.

Bangstin

theStrict9 wrote: »

Bangstin wrote: »

I care too as it limits what a dev can and can't do realistically with their game.

That's just not true, and it really depends on if the developers have a source license or not. If they do, they have much more of an ability to change the engine to suit their needs.

Unless you are a developer who has experience integrating middleware into a large game project, you probably have no business commenting about it. Your one bad experience with a game made with hero engine doesn't exactly make you an expert. You can't attribute all the flaws of any game to its middleware.

It's all in how you use it.

Think you combined the quote to a wrong poster name

Saerydoth

patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

Once again, they are required to mention Hero Engine because they licensed it and did some of the early development work on it. SpeedTree is also very common...in fact Oblivion used it. Are you suggesting that Oblivion uses Hero Engine now?

All you have to do is spend 5 minutes playing a Hero Engine game to see that the ESO engine is NOT Hero Engine, nor is it even based on it.

Quit with the conspiracy theories, your tinfoil hat is on just a little too tight. The "ESO using Hero Engine" rumor has already been debunked multiple times, at least once by someone who actually looked at the code. It is a completely custom engine.
[edited to remove quote]

fpris900x

So far so good.

todokete

Needs new engine

Delparis

patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »

You told us this game wouldnt use Hero Engine, that you just used it for conceptual work in the beginning, and that you wrote your very own engine...[snip]

I wanted to re-install the game completly and get this thrown right into my face "Powered by Hero Engine", then a Havok logo right after...What the ***??

This explains why this games loading times is as long as they are, and it also explains why you cannot fix the bugs, you need to rely on a third party company to fix bugs for you wich you then use to create your patches...This game is beyond fixing now, I'm 100% certain that you can never fix the bugs because you have zero control over the game.
It also explains why you keep on pushing patches with tons of bugs that have been reported for weeks, sometimes even months on PTS.

I have zero trust left for Zenimax and Bethesda now, good luck with your future releases wich I will not be a part of anymore.

Sincerly
A deeply insulted fan



Edit 2014-06-02:

Here's my findings on this. It's not like they would just throw away that amount of money, Idea Fabrik getting a share of the revenue wich is bound by contract.


This is from when Zenimax signed the license for the engine.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20071126005053&newsLang=en

And this is from 2014. Notice the little logo on the bottom of the first page?:)
http://static.elderscrollsonline.com/cs/kb/pdf/ESO_PC_MM_EN_digital.pdf

The tiny text at the bottom is also interesting, Hero Cloud contains SpeedTree, coincidence?
RAD Gametools wich consists of Bink Video and Granny Animation is also included in Hero Cloud.

© 2014 ZeniMax Media Inc. The Elder Scrolls® Online developed by ZeniMax Online Studios LLC, a ZeniMax Media company. ZeniMax, The Elder Scrolls,
ESO, Bethesda, Bethesda Softworks and related logos are registered trademarks or trademarks of ZeniMax Media Inc. in the US and/or other countries.
Uses Havok™: ©Copyright 1999-2010. Havok.com, Inc. (and its Licensors), All Rights Reserved. See http://www.havok.com for details. Portions of this software
utilize SpeedTree® technology (©2009 Interactive Data Visualization, Inc.) SpeedTree® is a registered trademark of Interactive Data Visualization, Inc. All
rights reserved. Uses Bink Video. Copyright ©1997-2014 by RAD Game Tools, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Uses Granny Animation. Copyright ©1999-2007
by RAD Game Tools, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Powered by Lingoona ® Grammar Engine © Lingoona GmbH 2009-2014. Acapela Text-To-Speech from
Acapela Group. Powered by HeroEngine, an Idea Fabrik technology, http://www.heroengine.com. Idea Fabrik and HeroEngine are registered trademarks of Idea
Fabrik Plc. All rights reserved. The ratings icon is a trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All Rights Reserved.

5 years later and the game is the same state, bugs after bugs, then patches then bugs a never ending story.
I know this won't get fixed ever.
[edited to remove quote]